Complaints about drop rate

[HentaiFox]

Wtf! 33 and 12?!?!?!

I dont know what is happening to the drop rates, but in my case I've fought around 200 battles with Edwarda to get Maleva and nothing...

If I dont get any girls in these 14 day long event I quit.

And I am not raging for nothing, in past events I spent like 15 k saved kobans just to get the girls, and I missed Golden Bunny completely even I fought around 500 fights for her... Drop rates were nice a couple of months ago, I dont know what the creators are doing with every update, but they seem to lower the drop rates.

This is not something trivial, if you dont have decent drop rates players will start to feel frustrated, and begin to spend their time and money somewhere else.

So if a moderator is reading this, please, PLEASE tell the devs to fix the drop rates to something more fair... I am an 284 lvl player with 98 girls in my harem, and almost two years playing this, I was considering buying kobans and the monthly pass, but this felt like a cheap move.

[GeorgeMTO]

@HentaiFox your comments were unrelated to the previous thread (as it was about how many fights girls took to drop rather than rants about drop rates), so I've split them off here. Please don't hijack other topics.

[jelom]

@HentaiFox If you are a veteran player, you know there are events in which you get the girls fast and events in which you only get one girl or even no girl at all. I was lucky this time with 33 and 12, but other times i have battled for more than 300-400 battles with no drop ...

Edited November 2, 2018 by jelom

[[CNO] BananaJoy]

pray to the rng godess ^^

[HentaiFox]

I was looking for more related topics about drop rate. And I am right, the devs changed something a couple of months ago and people are starting to complain, but most players dont notice this.

All that I am saying is that there should be a limit, like Idk, 250 battles to get a event girl, 500 for a boss girl or something like that; a parameters that gives you some security that if you reach that amount of battles you will get the girl.

The author of the topic where I originally posted this was trying to figure out drop rates, but if they keep changing it in order to get more money from kobans I think this game will exponentialy loose players.

Yes I am a veteran player, and my complain is because I noticed how drop rates have been changing not in favour of players. @jelom I am glad you could unlock this fast your girls, but we all can agree that the game needs more balancing, they achieved this a couple of months ago and recently they made avaliable for my country to pay for things. I was a little frustrated that I couldnt buy anything to get what I wanted, but now that I can spend that money, I really dont want to do it, hell, I even dont want to spend my time any more in this.

This is the feeling of a veteran player, and I am not the only one. Now imagine new players! They simply take a look and go away.

[jelom]

We cannnot know it the devs changed the drop rates, there have been complaints from some players for not getting girls in some events, but that is atributable to luck and aggravated with the shorter duration (seven versus four days) of the last events.

I have read ALL post in the english forum and I can assure you that the complaints over not getting girls is a repetitive issue, not only in the last 2 months.

There is a very interesting thread where some players have shared their drop info if you want to check it.

 

[Observer_X]

8 hours ago, HentaiFox said:

@jelomAll that I am saying is that there should be a limit, like Idk, 250 battles to get a event girl, 500 for a boss girl or something like that; a parameters that gives you some security that if you reach that amount of battles you will get the girl.

 

Regarding normal boss girls, as GeorgeMTO remembered to me, a pity counter is already been in effect for a long time. As I said when this was remembered to me, I agree if one says that for the later bosses this pity counter is quite too high (and based on my experience it is definitely more than 500).

It is interesting IMHO tp note what now I deem a bit of a contradiction: in the past it was said (i don't remember now if it was from Jessie or Kinkoid himself) that they would not publish the drop rates because then people would continually complain on how they are low. To my eyes up to now they have obtained almost the same result refusing to make them public, to the point that I doubt that knowing the true numbers would make any important difference.

[HentaiFox]

Yeah I remember the pity counter, but is a shame they didnt implement it for event girls.

I agree that shorter times and luck play a role here, but according to what @Observer_X said, making the pity counter greater in later worlds, where your most loyal players are currently, doesnt seem like a good idea.

So yeah, even if they published the drop rates people would complain because there is no actual "fair" way to get what you want, as Pachinko is an expensive way to get girls and the RNG changes from time to time, or at least has a super unstable behaviour, given that you can get a girl in the first 5 fights or until the number 900, which traduces in around 20 days of normal refills or 9.7k kobans in refills ($70 USD, aprox., which dude, I strongly prefer to buy Red Dead Redemption 2, an AWESOME game, rather than the chance to get a girl).

If they only reduce the prices for Pachinko and actually fix the drop rates to a fair point I ensure you nobody would complain about these things and they would increase they earnings.

But this is filled with contradictions...

[jelom]

It has been said many times, but i will repeat again, the pity counter for boss girls, is a tiny increment in the actual small drop rate of that boss for every battle you do with this boss without a drop (event girls not included). Example (not real drop rates): if Roko has a 0,2% drop rate, every battle with him will increase his drop rate 0,001%. The pity counter is independent for every boss.

Some people thinks of the pity counter more like a counter that will give you the girl when you reach a certain number of battles, (say 300, 800 or 1000). That is not the way it works.

In the past there was a pity drop system in which you were given a girl drop if you were a month without one, but it was discarded for the actual system, first with a global pity counter and then with individual pity counter for every boss. The event girls always had a flat rate (the drop percentage is the same in the first or the 1000 battle)

[HentaiFox]

9 hours ago, jelom said:

The event girls always had a flat rate (the drop percentage is the same in the first or the 1000 battle)

Do you think that is fair? Or does that motivates you to play anymore?

[EpicBacon]

6 hours ago, HentaiFox said:

Do you think that is fair? Or does that motivates you to play anymore?

Well that is the problem, since its flat drop, you could get a drop at battle one, or battle hundred, or at your one thousand battle.
So its both good and bad, you can be lucky or you could just be unlucky and not get anything.
As for regular events, i think the 1 flat is fair, as you have 2 weeks or so to complete, the 4 days revivals are a bit more questionable, as the limited free combats you get in does not guarantee any drops, like the last event when i failed to get either Malah? and Gork.
The legandary events seems to have lower droprate, seems about half of the regular event (sample size is too low to make a reliable estimate, but it does point to it beeing lower)
I do think they should have a limit on how many battles you need to do in order to obtain the event girl.
Or make it so after 100 battles, they increase the drop chance, then again after 100 more, etc.

TL:DR
Do i think the droprate is fair?
For normal event, i think its reasonable, but i think legendary events should have some fail-safe to make sure you do not spend 10.000 kobans and end up with nothing.
 

[Volt_JR]

I noticed this trend too- past month had no problem getting girls from bosses without refill. Now I've spent over 2000 kobans and way over 200 battles in the past 4 days and Ninja Spy refuses to drop Maleva. Last month I had no problem getting Morgane, Halloween Juliette, Gork and Mala without refills days before event end. Also, I was regularly getting boss girls at a steady rate- usually by the end of the world I would have collected all 3 girls, but somehow I can't get Eugine from Edwarda even though I must have battled her like way more than 800 times by now.

And the worst thing is that I've burned through my saved kobans for epic pachinko to get nothing aside from top 250 at the weekly ladder- I guess I will have to accept the 100k as a reward...

[HentaiFox]

Glad to hear I am not the only one that felt the changes in droprates @Volt_JR

On 11/3/2018 at 5:48 PM, EpicBacon said:

TL:DR
Do i think the droprate is fair?
For normal event, i think its reasonable, but i think legendary events should have some fail-safe to make sure you do not spend 10.000 kobans and end up with nothing.
 

The important thing is: you didint say yes.

The game is based heavily in RNG, and as you said, could be reasonable sometimes. But this mechanic doesnt motivate you to spent your money in kobans because you dont get your moneys worth. Like Volt_JR, players tend to save the free earned kobans to get refills or in Epic Pachinko.

I really dunno if devs are conscious of this, but like I said before, most people would spend money on other things rather than in an unkown chance. This is no CS:GO skins, nor lootbox system of an already complete game: it is the game itself.

It can be fun to play something related to luck and so on, that's why gambling games exist, but you cannot really be expecting that the RNG mechanic is something applicable to everthing, because it is literally everywhere in the game (except for the story that, imho, is great but is SLOW and the energy mechanic is unnecesary).

Changes like:

On 11/3/2018 at 5:48 PM, EpicBacon said:

I do think they should have a limit on how many battles you need to do in order to obtain the event girl.
Or make it so after 100 battles, they increase the drop chance, then again after 100 more, etc.

 

Are STRONGLY needed in order to feel some justice around the RNG and motivate you to buy those $5 USD in kobans that you need to get you event girl, or maybe speeding up getting that boss girl you wanted.

Balancing mechanics and readjusting of the economy of the game are needed, and I hope this happens by the end of this year...

[Observer_X]

On 11/3/2018 at 8:19 AM, jelom said:

It has been said many times, but i will repeat again, the pity counter for boss girls, is a tiny increment in the actual small drop rate of that boss for every battle you do with this boss without a drop (event girls not included). Example (not real drop rates): if Roko has a 0,2% drop rate, every battle with him will increase his drop rate 0,001%. The pity counter is independent for every boss.

Some people thinks of the pity counter more like a counter that will give you the girl when you reach a certain number of battles, (say 300, 800 or 1000). That is not the way it works.

In the past there was a pity drop system in which you were given a girl drop if you were a month without one, but it was discarded for the actual system, first with a global pity counter and then with individual pity counter for every boss. The event girls always had a flat rate (the drop percentage is the same in the first or the 1000 battle)

First thing, thank you for clarifying this to me, as, despite the fact you said it has been said many times, I never understood the situation is like this, even when I read Cthugha's FAQ. My bad.

Second, if it is really like this, I got to say two things. First, define that behaviour "pity counter", in my humble opinion, it is completely wrong. A REAL pity counter functions, to use  your words, as "some people thinks" (and I am prone to bet that "some" is quite large). Second, passing to the players a similar behaviour defining it "pity counter", is unfair, to avoid the use of offensive terms, because it is clear that the increases are so small that the use of the term "pity" becames offensive towards the players.

Also, I didn't knew that the rule of a regular girl every month was discarded, and this doesn't surely contribute to make me any happier. In the past I said elsewhere more than once that I understand the right of the devs to gain money for their efforts to give us a good game. But, changes like this make me think that gather money to pay your bills is a thing, transforming a free to play game first in a pay-to-win-better and then in a pay-to-progress-at-an-acceptable-rate is another thing entirely. It seems to me almost sure that in the future Hentai Heroes will become a game sustained by a number of whales and played by a few, ultra-patient free players, and if this is good for the devs, no one has the right to stop them, but I hope they understand that the passages to get to that result sooner or later will surely generate bad advertising on other game discussion sites, and as they will produce other games after this one, the situation could get really thorny for them. And that would be a real loss not only for them, but for us players as well.

[Randall Flagg]

Another event with no drops for me even though I didn't miss a single point of energy.

The drop system really needs to be rethought because it's really annoying that after more than a year of playing I get no more drops in events.

This makes the old players quit.

[ScrubNoob]

16 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

Another event with no drops for me even though I didn't miss a single point of energy.

The drop system really needs to be rethought because it's really annoying that after more than a year of playing I get no more drops in events.

This makes the old players quit.

Had the same problem. I burned my koban reserve in epic to get one of the ones that should have dropped and several other epic only girls, since prior to the event starting I got the last non event girl from a boss for the current world finally. If the problem persists into future 14 day events I might consider quitting myself. 

[HentaiFox]

How did it went for you so far @ScrubNoob?

With the introduction of clubs I had the chance to speak about this topic with some other players of my same languages and they agree: something happened to drop rates.

I think what @Observer_X said is true: the devs have all the right to do what they want, but they are starting to behave like EA in the greedy practices. I have a question for whoever sees the topic: have you spent money on this?

If it is yes, I sincerelly hope that is was/is worth it, like the Monthly pass (something that may be actually balanced in price/benefit), If no, then thumbs up mate you haven't feed the beast :).

Jokes aside, I think the game needs a complete change in the economy: cheaper Pachinko and cheaper kobans, with the company of a completely transparent droprate system, maybe not publish it, but tell the player with a visual indicator that he is close to drop a girl from a boss (and don't make a girl drop with more than 200 battles in an event and more than 500 in a "fixed" girl of a boss). If a Hamerette is worth around $3 dollars in Pachinko and refills benefit you more, my God, I thing they would sell kobans like crazy.

[Салерион]

My lvl 34... 11 girls (one from last event, from 1st boss, i think very good luck).

2nd boss now 45th lvl... (45-18)*9= more than 243 try, 121,5 hours minus bonus fights... near 115 hours - and i'm still don't drop 3rd usual girl from him.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Салерион

[ScrubNoob]

@HentaiFox I received 0 girls from the bosses during that event 14 day when I posted. I did get 1 during the 4 day epic and 1 already in the current event though, so it just appears to have just been really bad luck.

[ZackMacKenzie]

On 11/3/2018 at 3:19 AM, jelom said:

It has been said many times, but i will repeat again, the pity counter for boss girls, is a tiny increment in the actual small drop rate of that boss for every battle you do with this boss without a drop (event girls not included). Example (not real drop rates): if Roko has a 0,2% drop rate, every battle with him will increase his drop rate 0,001%. The pity counter is independent for every boss.

For illustrative purposes I'm breaking these numbers down — probability and very large numbers are not intuitive for the vast majority of people.

Assuming that these numbers are real, if not for Roko then for one of the earlier bosses, you'd see results/trends like:

• You are equally likely to have earned or NOT earned a drop after 223 attempts.  That's right, you don't reach 50-50 until you've tried 223 times.  In other words, you are officially/mathematically "lucky" if you win at any point before this.
• You are twice as likely to have earned the drop (vs. not) after 310 attempts.  AKA 2/3 or 66.67%.
• 3x as likely by 363 attempts     AKA 75-25
• 4x by 402 attempts  (80-20)   For comparison, McDonalds advertises a 1-in-5 chance to win something/anything in their Monopoly games.
• 9x by 507 attempts (90-10)
• 19x by 599 attempts (95-5)
• 99x by 780 attempts (99-1)  For comparison, 1-in-100 is roughly the chance of winning a free ticket in a 6/49 lottery. (Does NOT include the odds of winning a better prize, just the free ticket.)

So, even after 780 attempts there is still a 1% chance that you'd still be hunting for that drop.  To put things in perspective, if you had a 1% chance to win a raffle you'd probably call that GOOD odds!

Also, these numbers assume that there is NO CAP for the pity counter!!! If there is a cap you'd need even more attempts to reach these probabilities!

I hope this helps people understand or visualize what they're up against and gauge "luck" appropriately.

[[CNO] BananaJoy]

dont think they decrease drop rates. there r still lot of ppl who obtaind durign each event girls.

[HentaiFox]

Well, @ScrubNoob that almost happened to me in this event (Christmas is back). To be honest, I did around 400 battles before Donatien dropped the girl. This is the first time in months that an event girl took so long to unlock. It kind of feels like a year and a half, when winning a girl was really hard.

Where did you get this info @ZackMacKenzie? To be honest I think the system is so tweaked against players right now that I wont even spend kobans in refill for battles. With the new update they even got more greedy and set up an even more expensive Pachinko. This is sad, because the game will start with small changes like this and become a pay to win... Appears that the devs havent learn anything from todays videogame industry failures.

 

[DisgustingMarsupial]

2 minutes ago, HentaiFox said:

This is sad, because the game will start with small changes like this and become a pay to win... Appears that the devs havent learn anything from todays videogame industry failures.

What? This game has always been pay to win. Now it's pay more to win. 

[ZackMacKenzie]

58 minutes ago, HentaiFox said:

Where did you get this info @ZackMacKenzie?

I just used a branch of mathematics called combinatorics.  Also, as stated I assumed that the rates that @jelom chose for his example were real.  He also clearly stated that these numbers were not 'real'.  Only the devs know the real numbers.  However, the pattern I demonstrated holds true for any drop rate and pity counter,

One of the key observations that I failed to highlight in my post was this.

The original drop rate was 0.2% which can be stated as a fraction of 1/500.  So, by intuition, we feel as though the system cheated if we haven't gotten that drop by the 500th try.  But even with a pity counter, the actual odds of getting a drop by the 500th try isn't 100% — it's below 90%.

I think the devs have been clear that the rates decrease with each successive boss.  I'm currently stuck fighting Edwarda.  I thought she might be my crossover point, where it would take more tries than it takes to max out her level to score a drop, but in my case at least, I did receive ONE drop before she maxed.  That's nearly three times as long as it took me to get all three drops from the Dark Lord.  Still, barring exceptional luck, we'll all hit that crossover point eventually, unless the devs have cleverly designed the bosses maximum levels to grow faster than the drop rate shrinks. 😀  Only they know the truth.

For those interested in a look behind the math...

Contrary to intuition, the cumulative odds of winning don't increase linearly, i.e. 1/500 + 1/500 + 1/500... , or simply #_tries / 500.

Instead, they increase geometrically based on the number of non-winners, i.e. 499/500 x 499/500 x 499/500...

One might ask, "what's the difference?" or "where do the 'missing' odds go?"  The answer to both is that it is possible, albeit unlikely, to get multiple drops over the same number of tries.  Remember, the numbers I gave cited {chance of ZERO drops} Vs {chance of AT LEAST ONE drop}.  Sure, the chances of getting a load of drops in your tries is relatively tiny, but the chances of getting 2 or 3 drops gets fairly big as the number of tries increases.  That's where the conceptual/perceptual 'gap' between the linear and the geometric goes (i.e. 100% and <90% in our example).

[John 1039]

13 hours ago, HentaiFox said:

... almost happened to me in this event (Christmas is back). To be honest, I did around 400 battles before Donatien dropped the girl. This is the first time in months that an event girl took so long to unlock. It kind of feels like a year and a half, when winning a girl was really hard.

Seriously? Which game are you playing? Some would call this pretty good luck.

Total battles required for some of my last month's drops: 394, 385, 322, 392(but no drop).

And now 425 battles with Dark lord but no drop, wish Donatien had taken this long because of the higher money reward. For me, highest number of battles before drop was 518 just a couple of months ago in September, and on top of that it was a 3-4 days event.

Edit: Just re-read your original post, so maybe luck evening out instead of "good luck".

Edited December 11, 2018 by John 1039
Addition