Patch Notes: Week 28

[Čamuga]

Everyone give KK an applause, they're really listening to us! We said we wanted a thing, and they gave us something completely different! Thanks KK, you always want to hear our feedback.

 

[Chthugha]

13 minutes ago, Čamuga said:

Everyone give KK an applause, they're really listening to us! We said we wanted a thing, and they gave us something completely different! Thanks KK, you always want to hear our feedback.

 

wanting to hear your feedback does not equal doing something with it.

[Čamuga]

30 minutes ago, Chthugha said:

wanting to hear your feedback does not equal doing something with it.

then why ask for feedback in the first place? Then its not feedback that they want, they want nods in agreement.

[Chthugha]

Just now, Čamuga said:

then why ask for feedback in the first place? Then its not feedback that they want, they want nods in agreement.

Because as a company you always have to judge whether or not the feedback is good enough to take into account.
Most feedback is usually just terribly selfish and not for the best of the game.
Now in this case, I can't see a good reason to not implement a switch, but it was just a general remark.

[Čamuga]

2 minutes ago, Chthugha said:

Most feedback is usually just terribly selfish and not for the best of the game.

While theres feedback of that sort, it's generally not so represented. It always starts with some changes that a company/service provider makes, people dislike the change and are negative about it, the company/service provider disregards feedback as selfish and self serving, keeps going in the direction ppl don't want, then people start leaving harsher and more negative feedback that is meant to shit-test the company to see if they even gave a shit in the first place, and then the company turns and says "See we knew your feedback was dishonest all along!"
It's a problem of their own making.

[Chthugha]

21 minutes ago, Čamuga said:

While theres feedback of that sort, it's generally not so represented. It always starts with some changes that a company/service provider makes, people dislike the change and are negative about it, the company/service provider disregards feedback as selfish and self serving, keeps going in the direction ppl don't want, then people start leaving harsher and more negative feedback that is meant to shit-test the company to see if they even gave a shit in the first place, and then the company turns and says "See we knew your feedback was dishonest all along!"
It's a problem of their own making.

I disagree. Feedback is always driven from a selfish motivation. Combine that with the natural tendency of humans to like complaining, and you will get what we have on the forum; a lot of moaning and when it doesn't go fast enough the personal attacks come around the corner, like those snarky remarks you make.

[Urist]

 It's been 5 weeks, at what point is snarkiness justified? Seriously, let's look at the changes of the past 5 weeks.

Week 23:
-Contest notifications added. Enough has been said about these.

Week 24:
-New design for Activities page; don't care
-New girls images in High Definition, the images will load a bit slower but the quality will be better; bad change, fast load time is much more important.

Week 25:
-The zodiac signs of the girls have been added; OK.... we already had birthdays, anyone who cares about astrology that much probably already knew their signs just from the birthday.
-Visual issue from “Daily Mission” reward Kobans will not longer display old and new design at the same time; an improvement, but this was a pretty minor issue.
-Pachinko: fixed the display problem with Depraved Nika and Tainted Hari; after that event was already over.   

Week 26:
-Visual bug “Leagues visual fake refill” issue has been fixed; Good, an actual improvement to the game.

Week 27:
-Button to hide/show texts; The new button is not better or worse than the old. Waste of time.

Week 28:
-Contest notifications shrunk; good but not what people have been asking for

 

8 hours ago, Chthugha said:

Feedback is always driven from a selfish motivation.

Maybe, but Kinkoid isn't exactly the Red Cross. They have their own selfish motivation in keeping the player base happy. And dragging their feet on these notifications is just compounding with dissatisfaction from other bad changes and the feedback that was ignored on that. Is it any surprise that players are annoyed and frustrated?

 

8 hours ago, Chthugha said:

personal attacks come around the corner, like those snarky remarks you make. 

 

I won't pretend that I'm above this kind of thing, but you shouldn't either.

 

 

[Čamuga]

Best part is that I wasnt intending to be snarky in the first place It was frustration, but if snark is needed, I can do proper snarky and snide comments, but thus far all I've said were honest observations and opinions. 

10 hours ago, Urist said:

 It's been 5 weeks, at what point is snarkiness justified? Seriously, let's look at the changes of the past 5 weeks.

...

I won't pretend that I'm above this kind of thing, but you shouldn't either.

That too, it's been so long, I'd dare say that frustration is more than justified at this point, and if people were to be full on assholes while leaving much desired feedback, then I personally wouldn't even blame them at this point.

[Observer_X]

Allow me my two cents by repeating what I already said in @DvDivXXX thread about leagues problems.

IMHO, there is one important thing that a good slice of players simply didn't understood up to now: the claim of the devs about the fact that they are always interested in players feedback, has been wrongly interpreted by the playing community. As I see it, with that claim the devs meant they are interested to know only and exclusively what the player thinks of the implementations they effectively put in the game (or in the test server if that is the case), but only from a "rating" point of view (just look at the last surveys and at the recent "Surveys" subsection). This means that the devs are not interested in any way to know how the players would like to change their implementations in the game (unless thay make a specific question with specific alternatives in the surveys): in other words, the devs claim absolute right to decide about every aspect of game content, and are absolutely uninterested in reading any of the players suggestions, unless they explicitly ask for it, and even in that case, they claim absolute right to fully ignore players ideas and continue to do as they please. And, unluckily, this also means that recently (and, more unluckily, not only recently) a lot of posters have done nothing else than wasting their time and efforts.

I admit that the above can be difficult to believe for someone, but rethinking about the recent devs behaviours (one example for all: the notification banners) will let people understand things better: IMHO, as lawyers says in courts, the above is proven beyond reasonable doubt. I believe that longtime players will have no difficulty to recognize in the above part of the usual devs behaviour in the last years.

[Тёмный Властелин]

16 minutes ago, Observer_X said:

this also means that recently (and, more unluckily, not only recently) a lot of posters have done nothing else than wasting their time and efforts.

@Observer_X, the devs recent implementations into the game are, for sure, questionable and have a lot of drawbacks, but let's be frank. The forum shitstorm about changing the champion's rewards (adding orbs that can interfere with the chance of getting a girl) reached the devs and they reverted the change.

[Observer_X]

22 minutes ago, Тёмный Властелин said:

@Observer_X, the devs recent implementations into the game are, for sure, questionable and have a lot of drawbacks, but let's be frank. The forum shitstorm about changing the champion's rewards (adding orbs that can interfere with the chance of getting a girl) reached the devs and they reverted the change.

Sure, but in the years I've come to consider occurrences like the one you mentioned as the exceptions that confirm the rule.

Edited July 10, 2020 by Observer_X

[_shal_]

16 minutes ago, Observer_X said:

Sure, but in the years I've come to consider occurrences like the one you mentioned as the exceptions that confirm the rule.

No, it's more that you have a tendency to conveniently 'forget' any development in the game that doesn't conform to your preferred narrative. We did this whole song and dance not so long ago during the original PoA feedback, if I'm not mistaken.

Edited July 10, 2020 by _shal_

[Čamuga]

1 hour ago, _shal_ said:

No, it's more that you have a tendency to conveniently 'forget' any development in the game that doesn't conform to your preferred narrative. We did this whole song and dance not so long ago during the original PoA feedback, if I'm not mistaken.

Mmmm nah I'm pretty sure that the PoA feedback was because of the similar shitstorm about the price  The second they gave 2 girls for the 7.2k price most of the negativity went away, and only real big issue left was the enormous amount of champion battles. 
Oh and also that one time where they wanted to make contests a part of progressing in PoA and someone posted about it in the Test Server section and it got quite a lot of traction. Those are the 2 exceptions to the rule as far as I've seen.

 

2 hours ago, Observer_X said:

IMHO, there is one important thing that a good slice of players simply didn't understood up to now: the claim of the devs about the fact that they are always interested in players feedback, has been wrongly interpreted by the playing community. As I see it, with that claim the devs meant they are interested to know only and exclusively what the player thinks of the implementations they effectively put in the game (or in the test server if that is the case), but only from a "rating" point of view (just look at the last surveys and at the recent "Surveys" subsection). This means that the devs are not interested in any way to know how the players would like to change their implementations in the game (unless thay make a specific question with specific alternatives in the surveys): in other words, the devs claim absolute right to decide about every aspect of game content, and are absolutely uninterested in reading any of the players suggestions, unless they explicitly ask for it, and even in that case, they claim absolute right to fully ignore players ideas and continue to do as they please. And, unluckily, this also means that recently (and, more unluckily, not only recently) a lot of posters have done nothing else than wasting their time and efforts.

This sadly I not only agree with, but I've come to the same conclusion not so long ago, which is why my posts have gotten harsher over the recent month(s). If they apparently aren't going to listen either way, why not just go at it brutally honest? It's been a rule that whenever something happens in the game it will appear again in one way or another and the only hope we have to influence that is to make enough clamor and hope to god that the next time is not as awful as the last time.

[_shal_]

17 minutes ago, Čamuga said:

Mmmm nah I'm pretty sure that the PoA feedback was because of the similar shitstorm about the price 

I didn't say it was about PoA feedback, just that it was another occasion for a nonsensical "no improvements have ever happened in this game, everything is just getting worse and worse" lament.

Edited July 10, 2020 by _shal_

[Čamuga]

54 minutes ago, _shal_ said:

I didn't say it was about PoA feedback, just that it was another occasion for a nonsensical "no improvements have ever happened in this game, everything is just getting worse and worse" lament.

Oh fuck I didnt write that properly, sorry my bad. I meant that the change happened because of the massive shitstorm, and that that was the similar amount of shitstormery as it was for the champions change. 
Yet that all pales in comparison to the hatred and complaints about the contest notifications, hence why I'm in agreement with @Observer_X and say that the PoA change and Champions change were but a couple of exceptions that prove the rule 

Edited July 11, 2020 by Čamuga

[Lhans]

On 7/8/2020 at 3:34 AM, Noacc said:

Improvement

• Contest Sliding popup v2 - an updated version of the sliding notification 

Another Villain Contest Day, another gripe about Contest Notifications. Is it an improvement or a deterioration of game play?

[Observer_X]

On 7/11/2020 at 1:25 AM, Čamuga said:

If they apparently aren't going to listen either way, why not just go at it brutally honest?

Because that way you risk to get banned, my friend. I thank you for your sustenance, but allow me to advise you that is better to limit the harshness in your posts, as the moderators more often than not have little patience with too high tones. As I had mean of understand in my very first posts in this forum nearly three years ago, this not a free-speaking forum.

Regarding your exchange with @_shal_, I think you should know that, having tired, after my recent change of personal situation, to read all the bullshit that he shoots at my address (not least the fact of often calling me a liar), its already some weeks that I put him on my ignore list, so unless I explicitly use the command to view his posts (which I was forced to do to write this to you, to better understand the situation), I generally don't care anymore about what he says. I know what he thinks of me, I don't care a bit of it, and fortunately I also know that many people in the forum can judge for themselves who it is that really shoots bullshit between me and him. This to advise you that his answer to my above post (the one you quoted afterwards) was simply more an attack to me and my way of thinking than to the specific thing I wrote, a thing that, as he said himself, he was quite used to do in the past, when he rarely missed an opportunity to mock me if he read a post where (in his opinion) I shooted bullshit. Maybe now if he read this post, he will know that in the future he can spare his breath, as it will be time and effort wasted.

My apologies to fellow players as lately this matters had put the thread quite off-topic.

[blaa]

Well, to the patch notes isnt much to say .. new scroll is great, more villian girls are always welcome ... you couldnt expect that they change the notifications any time soon, since they already said that they wont do it in the near future (which also means they heared it, but they decided to handle it a way most of us didnt like). If you know what you have to expect you can of course still complain, but it seems not really reasonable or helpful to me. But of course, to each his own. If you dont like it, my suggestion would be: just use the script alternative (which I do) or leave the game behind if it's that bad (what I dont think it is).

The off-topic seems quite speculative. As I said a few times already in other conversations, you cant understand what other people think or why they doing what they do. Most of the time even they dont understand it. Instead of insuniating bad intentions, a conspiracy or whatever (which you then have to justify with ridiculous reasons (eg. there is a rule and there are exceptions, but they dont count then if they do, i couldnt keep believing in my rule (which obviously isnt a rule or a pattern rather than an assumption you have how they may think or act))) just keep to what you can 'know', eg. there are notifications and you dont like the way they are implemented. That's all you can (and probably) should say about it

I am also curious how a lot of people think they really have to say something how the game has to be developed. It's KK's game, they can do whatever they like with it. And if they listen to feedback or not that's totally up to them. What's up to you is if you want play this game, if you want to spend your ressources (time, money, ...) on it, ... of course, you can also think, it's a bad decision not hearing to feedback, but just because you think it isnt, it doesnt have to be true or somebody has to think the same way or even act following your thinking/standards. That's totally up to themselves.

I think there is a pretty easy explanation which doesnt need all this psychologism, and thats: bad communication. If I were KK I would reduce the amout of girls for the new event, fire the 'bad' artist and hire some one for a few hours in a week to improvement my communication with the player base. But since I am not KK, it doesnt really matter what I would do in their place.

As usual, language barrier and this kind of stuff, but maybe you get it - or not. But that's not totally up to me.

Edited July 12, 2020 by blaa

[Čamuga]

17 hours ago, blaa said:

 If I were KK I would reduce the amount of girls for the new event, fire the 'bad' artist and hire some one for a few hours in a week to improvement my communication with the player base. But since I am not KK, it doesnt really matter what I would do in their place.

Yeah but you arent unreasonably dumb 🤣