[ 24-Nov-20 ] Tech Divas PoA - Discussion

[Joker555]

8 minutes ago, Makinen said:

Yeah, that's just it... 

As visible on the first page, we went from needing 160 Arena wins to needing 110 Seasons wins. Generously assuming four full bars that's 70 Seasons wins versus 148 Arena wins, because there you'd have had three targets waiting for you each time as well.

148 Arena wins would take you 25 hours ((148 / 3 targets) / 2 resets/hour) total, with a 2 loss buffer, spread out over four Tiers so we'll ignore sleeping times.

70 Seasons wins would take you 70 hours (again, already assuming all wins on full bars), which takes you close to two days on a 6-day event LONGER than it used to.

And that's assuming you've got a full set of wins, which become harder the higher up in Tier you are. Completing PoA gave no player trouble in the past (case in point, i got all of them so far myself), but can you really say tripling the time requirement within an unchanged deadline wouldn't pose any additional problems whatsoever?

And sure, there's the Tower. But we're comparing the old Arena directly to Seasons here, one being a direct replacement of the other. And taken at face value, Season win requirements don't come anywhere near former Arena win requirements even with the lower numerical values shown in this PoA.

I think its easier to think about it as for every 6 arena matches you get 1 season match. Sure, you can win/lose all of them in both versions, but cutting it by 40% would've been better if we assume that you lose in arena only every 2.5 match 

Edited November 24, 2020 by Joker555

[Zanko]

Hmmmm while I was expecting PoA to be interesting, it certainly did not disappoint me with the selection of girls; I am however disappointed with that 'discount' offering price propaganda. Still I saved my resources, so I should be able to nab the finishing line of the PoA for at least the free reachable two girls. Though I am disappointed with the removal of arena and installment of the Season of the Rose being used for this PoA. Pros and Cons.

[jelom]

47 minutes ago, GeorgeMTO said:

I'd say you need to increase the value of the girls if you're making the assessment from Kinkoid's perspective. Obviously the EvP and MyP shows that a specific girl is worth significantly more than any random girl 

I just calculate the cost to get the rewards if you were to buy them in the game. I know that Kinkoid once said they the girls should be valued around 7000-8000 kobans (the average price in event pachinko, and to be honest I though at that moment that it would be increased soon in Epic pachinko, that fortunately it has not happened).

EvP and MP only gives an increased cost for assuring a specific girl in a specific time, but in the long run you you will get all girls in Epic pachinko, so this is the cost you will have to use. Some people argue that the cost should be around 2000 Kobans that is what you spend in orgy days, but not all girls will be in the villains, so we return again to the 5400 kobans for a 10xEP.

2 hours ago, Lemus said:

One of the main rules of trade says - a product / service costs as much as they are willing to pay for them, and not how much they are trying to sell. In this case, the price of everything except the girls will be zero, and the girls can be estimated at 5k (5400 is with 9 additional things in pachinko). And then it turns out more or less adequate instead of 10k they ask for 7.2k, this is a normal deal.

The main point is that when Kinkoid gives an initial value they are not lying, as that is approximately the in-game cost for all those items. There is people that paid that cost for energy,  combativity or orbs before, so the value (not the cost) could be zero for you but not for everybody.

[GeorgeMTO]

24 minutes ago, Joker555 said:

I know what you are trying to say, but as non-native speaker I see original question as if "Lets see if they handle it well", and in my personal judgement it was indeed insufficient, but it is indeed *something that helps*. That is if they did this change because of seasons and not some other reasons like they adjusted amount of pvp wins you needed before(sometimes because of changing duration of the event, sometimes not).

I don't accept the language barrier as an excuse for that. If you're reading things incorrectly, then you should improve your English comprehension skills before posting. They said they would be looking at adjusting it due to the Seasons change, and the total was reduced by nearly a third with no change in duration, so it's obviously in response to Seasons.

9 minutes ago, Makinen said:

And sure, there's the Tower. But we're comparing the old Arena directly to Seasons here, one being a direct replacement of the other. And taken at face value, Season win requirements don't come anywhere near former Arena win requirements even with the lower numerical values shown in this PoA.

That's NOT what we're doing. It might be what you are doing, but I'm comparing the PVP requirements in total. If that's the only comparison you're willing to make, then you're making a comparison in bad faith, since the new numbers assume you'll also be getting PVP battles from Leagues as well. You can also enter the task with significantly more PVP wins saved up than you could before, assuming you have the competence to balance a resource.

 

7 minutes ago, jelom said:

EvP and MP only gives an increased cost for assuring a specific girl in a specific time,

Yeah I mean my argument is PoA is doing the exact same as this. Like obviously it's minor, but it's worth pointing out that Kinkoid would normally consider that something of even more value.

[Kenrae]

I sell 30 items and proceed to do my 20 saved boss battles for the next task... wait... is that 35 items that needed to be sold? Crap. 🤦‍♂️

[Antimon]

32 minuti fa, Makinen ha scritto:

And sure, there's the Tower. But we're comparing the old Arena directly to Seasons here, one being a direct replacement of the other. And taken at face value, Season win requirements don't come anywhere near former Arena win requirements even with the lower numerical values shown in this PoA.

breaking news: without considering leagues fights, even past PoAs were not doable for free. I do not get why this time we have to consider the raw arena/season fights. the last two pvp task are greatly reduced. A correct management of league and season tokens should make this PoAs doable completely for free, like all the past PoAs have been. It is true that the faster pool refresh with three free battle availble made thing way easier, but if you play with attention and you do  not randomly waste resources at wrong times, it is more than possible to complete this PoA for free this time, too.

EDIT: saying "for free" I mean withouit unlocking premium path and without claiming CPs rewards

Edited November 24, 2020 by Antimon

[Albert80082]

9 minutes ago, Kenrae said:

I sell 30 items and proceed to do my 20 saved boss battles for the next task... wait... is that 35 items that needed to be sold? Crap. 🤦‍♂️

Ouch

[Makinen]

5 minutes ago, GeorgeMTO said:

That's NOT what we're doing. It might be what you are doing, but I'm comparing the PVP requirements in total. If that's the only comparison you're willing to make, then you're making a comparison in bad faith, since the new numbers assume you'll also be getting PVP battles from Leagues as well. You can also enter the task with significantly more PVP wins saved up than you could before, assuming you have the competence to balance a resource.

*sighs* Fine...

Challenges, Arena version:

15 wins -- All on full Tower bar, 0 remaining
35 wins -- 3 on Arena, 15 on Tower, 17 remaining
50 wins -- 3 on Arena, 15 on Tower, 32 remaining
60 wins -- 3 on Arena, 15 on Tower, 42 remaining

Total Arena hits: 91, at a rate of 7/hour (one Tower, 6 Arena), makes 13 hours. One loss sets you back an average of about 8 minutes and 37 seconds.

Challenges, Seasons version:

15 wins -- All on full Tower bar, 0 remaining
25 wins -- 10 on Seasons, 15 on Tower, exactly 0 remaining
35 wins -- 10 on Seasons, 15 on Tower, 10 remaining
35 wins -- 10 on Seasons, 15 on Tower, 10 remaining

Total Seasons hits: 20, at a rate of 2/hour (one Tower, one Seasons), makes 10 hours. One loss sets you back 30 minutes.

Assuming you have a win percentage of some 90%, and ignoring the 15 win requirement since there's more than enough to catch it in terms of available hits, we'd come out on 107 hits required in the Arena version, or 30,56 hits on the Seasons version.

107,11 Arena hits / 7 hits per hour = 15 hours and 18 minutes.

30,56 Seasons hits / 2 hits per hour = 15 hours and 17 minutes.

If you're slightly less fortunate and your win percentage is 85%, that drops to 16 hours and 39 minutes (116,59 Arena hits) and 18 hours and 23 minutes (36,76 Seasons hits) respectively.

So, taking everything into consideration: Yes, it's about equal on the barest minimum of minimums, BUT ONLY if your overall win percentage on both Tower and Seasons is over 90%. And that is the point i am trying to make. Unless your win percentage is over 90%, it WILL take you longer to complete regardless of how much you're throwing at it.

That said, what you're holding right now is a straw man argument: Both the Arena and Seasons versions have the exact same Tower, as Seasons replaced Arena my comparison is based on the difference between the two. The Tower is therefore removed from both sides of the equation as an unchanged constant for both. You could also have said "But Makinen, now you can pay kobans to refill bars on TWO things!" for all the difference that would have made. I'm not comparing apples to oranges here, strictly comparatively speaking the amount you can compensate by using the Tower shouldn't be a factor in comparing Seasons wins to Arena wins.

[Joker555]

29 minutes ago, GeorgeMTO said:

I don't accept the language barrier as an excuse for that. If you're reading things incorrectly, then you should improve your English comprehension skills before posting. They said they would be looking at adjusting it due to the Seasons change, and the total was reduced by nearly a third with no change in duration, so it's obviously in response to Seasons.

I'm not sure where you saw me blaming everything on language barrier, I even explained the difference in meaning, but you just disregarded that to mention that they said they will look into adjusting pvp wins. I don't think it was because of language barrier.

I mean its fine that you don't like criticism, in dumbed-down form, meme format or any other, because its the only thing you are reading here, but you are really grasping at straws there to attack pessimistic/low-effort posts or trying to convey them as such if they are not 

[windia]

2 hours ago, Makinen said:

Yeah, it's why the entire event really isn't worth it unless you're absolutely sure you can make it to the final Tier.

[...]

Of course, there's some extra stuff as well (Combativity, tickets et cetera), but let's face it, the game is about getting Girls. Everything else is just a means to an end, so it's going to be valued in accordance to its worth in reaching those goals, so Girls are the only rewards that hold actual value here. To clarify, you wouldn't spend kobans to refill Combativity if there wasn't a time limited event going on and you were just running 10 shards short of getting a Girl. It's basic value according to demand.

I consider this "extra stuff" very relevant to progress faster or not.

These help only for anything outside league/season - yet they can help to avoid wasting these precious tokens/kisses because no event use atm.

[GeorgeMTO]

5 minutes ago, Makinen said:

So, taking everything into consideration: Yes, it's about equal on the barest minimum of minimums, BUT ONLY if your overall win percentage on both Tower and Seasons is over 90%. And that is the point i am trying to make. Unless your win percentage is over 90%, it WILL take you longer to complete regardless of how much you're throwing at it.

That said, what you're holding right now is a straw man argument: Both the Arena and Seasons versions have the exact same Tower, as Seasons replaced Arena my comparison is based on the difference between the two. The Tower is therefore removed from both sides of the equation as an unchanged constant for both. You could also have said "But Makinen, now you can pay kobans to refill bars on TWO things!" for all the difference that would have made. I'm not comparing apples to oranges here, strictly comparatively speaking the amount you can compensate by using the Tower shouldn't be a factor in comparing Seasons wins to Arena wins.

A competent player can easily manage that kind of win-rate, especially in leagues if they know that a PoA is coming so they don't waste all their possible wins early in the week. And if it takes slightly longer, that's still fine since it's not like the PoA is impossible to finish early. I normally finish it on day 3 with zero additional koban spends.

No, I'm absolutely not using a straw man argument. When you highlight the difference between them, you cast it in the light of having only 1 battle per hour instead of 6 until I asked you to do otherwise. I do wish to note that I object to your rounding in challenges though, as it's much closer to say it's 2 fights in 1 hour than 1, since you round up 25 minutes instead of down 10. Now of course this is indeed poor since you can't actually get two fights in an hour, but since leagues average is actually 1/(35/60)= 1.71 challenges per hour, it changes your maths a lot.

For example your

107.11 / 7.71 hits per hour = 13.89 hours

30.56 / 2.71 hits per hour = 11.27 hours.

Wow, look at that difference compared to the numbers you gave where they got very similar figures. Honestly, I almost want to recommend people ignore any analysis of yours in the drop rate threads for making that big of a rounding error.

17 minutes ago, Joker555 said:

I'm not sure where you saw me blaming everything on language barrier, I even explained the difference in meaning, but you just disregarded that to mention that they said they will look into adjusting pvp wins. I don't think it was because of language barrier.

I'm not saying you're blaming everything on the language barrier. But I'm saying if you interpreted it that way, you did so wrongly, so you need to improve your English. It wouldn't matter even if English was your first and only language, it would need to be better than that. You misinterpreting my statement only lends support to this IMO.

[Zigg09]

Greetings!!! I am extremely new to this game and I'm trying to work my way through all of this, but how the heck can you do 30 champion battles that quickly when they take 24 hours to reset?

[GeorgeMTO]

1 minute ago, Zigg09 said:

Greetings!!! I am extremely new to this game and I'm trying to work my way through all of this, but how the heck can you do 30 champion battles that quickly when they take 24 hours to reset?

24 hours is the reset time for when you beat them. It's only 15 minutes (or 0 if you have the platinum card) if they beat you. Unfortunately for new players, the early champions are SUPER weak, so you pretty much can't get past that task. PoA is an event mostly aimed at longer term players. Keep beating up the champions all the time so you can open them up to higher strength (and unlock more of them) and hope you'll have a better chance the next time a PoA event comes around (most likely end of next month, but who knows with Christmas).

[windia]

6 minutes ago, Zigg09 said:

Greetings!!! I am extremely new to this game and I'm trying to work my way through all of this, but how the heck can you do 30 champion battles that quickly when they take 24 hours to reset?

You use very bad items in the market and you chose wrong poses for the champion. Like an endurance item instead a rainbow. Or something not your class.

Well, that is what I do.

And yeah, I have already unlocked all of them, so I can do them simultanously.

Edited November 24, 2020 by windia

[Zigg09]

2 minutes ago, windia said:

You use very bad items in the market and you chose wrong poses for the champion. Like the lowest you can imagine.

Well, that is what I do.

And yeah, I have already unlocked all of them, so I can do them simultanously.

Thanks for the tip, I'll give that a go when they reset tomorrow

[Makinen]

5 minutes ago, GeorgeMTO said:

A competent player can easily manage that kind of win-rate, especially in leagues if they know that a PoA is coming so they don't waste all their possible wins early in the week. And if it takes slightly longer, that's still fine since it's not like the PoA is impossible to finish early. I normally finish it on day 3 with zero additional koban spends.

No, I'm absolutely not using a straw man argument. When you highlight the difference between them, you cast it in the light of having only 1 battle per hour instead of 6 until I asked you to do otherwise. I do wish to note that I object to your rounding in challenges though, as it's much closer to say it's 2 fights in 1 hour than 1, since you round up 25 minutes instead of down 10. Now of course this is indeed poor since you can't actually get two fights in an hour, but since leagues average is actually 1/(35/60)= 1.71 challenges per hour, it changes your maths a lot.

For example your

107.11 / 7.71 hits per hour = 13.89 hours

30.56 / 2.71 hits per hour = 11.27 hours.

Wow, look at that difference compared to the numbers you gave where they got very similar figures. Honestly, I almost want to recommend people ignore any analysis of yours in the drop rate threads for making that big of a rounding error.

Ah, just checked and Tower is indeed 35 minutes per pop. I don't use Tower normally (last time i touched it was months ago) so that one's entirely on me. I don't like the Tower, so i don't like being forced to use it, and with the Arena... i wasn't forced to use it. Took a little extra time to complete PoA, true, but it was still possible.

That said, completing it in three days... is technically possible, but unless my math is wrong you'd be spending 1,200 kobans early, and then coasting on rewards to get the Tiers beyond that one, correct?

2 minutes ago, Zigg09 said:

Greetings!!! I am extremely new to this game and I'm trying to work my way through all of this, but how the heck can you do 30 champion battles that quickly when they take 24 hours to reset?

It only takes 24 hours if you beat them completely, just hitting them and not winning still gets you a Champ point for PoA. I keep them at zero damage and only start hitting all of them at once during this kind of events.

[GeorgeMTO]

7 minutes ago, Makinen said:

Ah, just checked and Tower is indeed 35 minutes per pop. I don't use Tower normally (last time i touched it was months ago) so that one's entirely on me. I don't like the Tower, so i don't like being forced to use it, and with the Arena... i wasn't forced to use it. Took a little extra time to complete PoA, true, but it was still possible.

That said, completing it in three days... is technically possible, but unless my math is wrong you'd be spending 1,200 kobans early, and then coasting on rewards to get the Tiers beyond that one, correct?

You don't use the league? Yeah okay, that seems like a glaring omission of bias when you're trying to compare just Seasons to just Arena. Maybe if you adjusted to doing the tower of fame you'd have a more enjoyable experience in the game as a whole, even if you don't do it with any level of seriousness. You'll level up faster and receive more kobans in exchange for pressing a few more buttons whenever you're on and doing something anyway.

I know I'm easily able to complete it. Why would I not buy it early and use the rewards as they come up? I don't save them for going into the next event, I don't need that benefit. I'll just pay for the refills if I need them.

[Makinen]

Yeah, i'm trying to keep my level low so i never really used the Tower. Setting certain challenges for myself helps me to enjoy the game more, and in the end, that's what playing a game is all about. I do that in other games too, rushing to max level is... just not my thing i suppose. Same with spending money: I enjoy seeing how far i can get on f2p, so i never spend kobans on anything (save the occasional 1,200 koban bonus rewards unlock until this PoA), so in my case it's more about being efficient while cashing in rewards because i don't buy refiills. That's just... how i play, and the Tower is simply set up to fulfill goals opposite to that. I never said the Tower was bad after all, just that i disliked using it as an opinion.

As for the bias, i didn't mention having the bias because i felt it was not relevant to the discussion. The discussion was "This was possible in the Arena, and now with Seasons, i'm no longer able to get by on that alone." Then you brought the Tower into it, and i included it in the calculations to get the full picture, but, like you pointed out, i misremembered the regen timer on Tower hits since it's been a long time since the last time i actually used it and mistakenly assumed it was one hour also. That's basically what happened on my end there.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Makinen

[windia]

3 hours ago, Esios said:

9th quest is brutal : if I didn't spared a lot of Ymens "just in case", it would have been impossible for me to get over it 😥

Since the amount depends on your level I guess it is far more affordable for beginners and I'm supposed to know at this point that PoA requires Ymens on some quests but damn... 13M was my personal all time record one month ago 😅

I see this Ymen giving steps:

 

Task 1 = finishing daily missions - not much, just more than nothing

Task 3 =  "sell items" - technically also selling boosters count - i spare normal items I can sell for that task giving me quite some Ymen. selling 35 rare equipments of my level =  8 times the ymen  needed in task 5.

Task4 = defeat villain also gives some money, in speed case the PoA rewards give extra combativity so I get more Ymen than with only waiting. AND rewards with Ymens.

(Task 5 might consume all Ymen from these previous ones)

Task 6 = champions give good portion of Ymen, just the right "PoA handbrake situation" might give less for one ticket

 

If that still fails, since this month there is Season. Depending on your progress, Tier 6, Tier 18, Tier 31 and Tier 44 give some Ymens. Yet no valid source and it might be consumed for LC already. On the other hand LC with the champion task (day 3) might have given some more Ymen.

Edited November 24, 2020 by windia

[Rasbhari]

27 of 30 done. Now wait for a day.

 

If only, the championship (for it starts so late) was scaled with level.

[Esios]

Il y a 2 heures, windia a dit :

I see this Ymen giving steps:

 

Task 1 = finishing daily missions - not much, just more than nothing

Task 3 =  "sell items" - technically also selling boosters count - i spare normal items I can sell for that task giving me quite some Ymen. selling 35 rare equipments of my level =  8 times the ymen  needed in task 5.

Task4 = defeat villain also gives some money, in speed case the PoA rewards give extra combativity so I get more Ymen than with only waiting. AND rewards with Ymens.

(Task 5 might consume all Ymen from these previous ones)

Task 6 = champions give good portion of Ymen, just the right "PoA handbrake situation" might give less for one ticket

 

If that still fails, since this month there is Season. Depending on your progress, Tier 6, Tier 18, Tier 31 and Tier 44 give some Ymens. Yet no valid source and it might be consumed for LC already. On the other hand LC with the champion task (day 3) might have given some more Ymen.

Seeing this analysis, I must agree that this is more realizable that I imagined at first thought. Thanks for your answer and your time

Fortunatly, I'm quite the turtle player : slow and defensive gameplay, don't take any risk and prepare for anything, so my Ymens bank account was quite well prepared hehe

 

il y a 3 minutes, Rasbhari a dit :

27 of 30 done. Now wait for a day.

 

If only, the championship (for it starts so late) was scaled with level.

As Windia previously said, try to downgrade yourself : don't pick the correct girl for the position asked by the champion, this way you are less efficient and thus you can use more tickets before beating the champ and having to wait for reset

Edited November 24, 2020 by Esios

[Mick is big]

Damn' yes, a "Path of Attraction" event ! 

I like those ones, because it's part endurance, self-control (how I wish I'd fight the bosses, but no, I have to wait for the right moment to do it in the Path of Attraction), resources managing, skills, pvp...

Good job Kinkoid, hard luck everybody, and thanks for the Excel routine sheets !

[Makinen]

34 minutes ago, Esios said:

As Windia previously said, try to downgrade yourself : don't pick the correct girl for the position asked by the champion, this way you are less efficient and thus you can use more tickets before beating the champ and having to wait for reset

Got lucky there too: Apparently one of my stronger opponents in Seasons had downgraded himself in order to do Champion hits, and i got a couple of 30+ Mojo hits in on them.

He's back to normal now though, but it was fun while it lasted  

[Killjoy666]

im glad to see the champions tickets problem was fixed with the addition of places of power giving tickets and x10 green orbs for selling items and getting money from selling so thats good.

also i think when it comes to this event type i feel like a sweat cause its the first day and im currently at level 13 of 16 levels.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Killjoy666
making a correction i just got to 13

[Maine Coon]

10 hours ago, Lemus said:

And so it all looks like our greedy Russian marketers who have heard about some kind of "Black Friday" in America, but are firmly convinced that this is just when they write an amount 10 times more expensive above the usual price of the product, cross out and sculpt a huge sticker "sale discount 90% ". And then they take offense that everyone laughs at them and calls them "greedy idiots."

 

I really do not like it when they hold me for a sucker. And when I see such a "discount", I immediately "vote with my feet", that is, I move away from this action. Lord marketers, look for other fools!