bohammettuz Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 2 hours ago, Jejerod said: ...which totally defeats the purpose of clubs and will burn through your tickets and kobans quite fast. Even if you get 1-100 shards soloing, it is still 1-100 - you can still get only 1 shard. I currently do about 0.15 - 0.2% per ticket, so it would be 500 fights in 24 hours to finish the champion. Playing 12 hours straight, using 10 tickets every 15 minutes, will result in only 12 x 4 x 10 = 480 fights. And this is champ level 221, it will only get harder. I seriously doubt soloing the champ will be a solution for more than 1% of the player base. Just brainstorming here, but if you would want to solo it, how about starting your own club, filling it out with 19 new level 1 accounts to lower the champ level? Personally, I prefer being part of a club with actual other players in it though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jelom Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 For my observations until now, the shard range depends on two factors: - how much % of the current attraction you have gained from the club champion. I don't mean the end total, but when you defeat the champion both coincide. - how many players have done at least one battle with the club champion, the more players, the more the shard range increase when you have a significative percentage of the currrent atraction. The real formula could had a bit more calculations, but it seems those are the main factors. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jelom Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 this is possible too 1 1 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenronin Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Yeah, someone in my time went to 1-282 shards range drop (and got 17 lol), we managed to beat already 3 times the champion 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplecane Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 It's extremely silly that the most probable shard drop range (i.e. 1-3 or 1-50) is always 1 at the bottom end. You can spend a lot of resources, get a decent range and then get 1 shard. The low end of the range should move up with the contribution, so we should be getting 2-4 instead of 1-3 and so on. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dd089966 Posted February 11, 2021 Author Share Posted February 11, 2021 2 hours ago, triplecane said: It's extremely silly that the most probable shard drop range (i.e. 1-3 or 1-50) is always 1 at the bottom end. You can spend a lot of resources, get a decent range and then get 1 shard. The low end of the range should move up with the contribution, so we should be getting 2-4 instead of 1-3 and so on. Its more beneficial for the player if the floor for the shard rate goes up along with the ceiling, but in the end its worse for the club. These are club champions, and not everyone who finished getting the girl will keep going for the club. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoggyShorts Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 Please pay attention the next time you finish one of these. Is it zero-sum? i.e. does the total amount of shards awarded equal 100, exclusive of the one tenth of one percent for a 100% drop? If so, the thing that some of us are sniffing around is completely true. This isn't a teamy thing at all. It's a thinly-veiled intra-club competition. You just have to manage who gets top in order to keep everyone else fighting for scraps while spending tix to contribute damage. In our club, we had one player report a huge drop, appropriate for his contribution since he did 1/3. Everyone else, and I mean EVERYONE else, was in the single digits. None of us thought to check whether that added up to 100. I completely agree with the idea that the floor should be raised. But seriously... if this is inherently competitive rather than team cooperative, it's yet another step away from the non-PvP nature of this game and into that wonderful world where top levels once again benefit because they not only have no actual champ girls left to get and are in it for the kisses, tix piling up, while the rest of us who still have champ girls to get are left with the conflict of whether to get the damn monkey suit because the next run gets what we're after vs being teamy. If this feature pits club member against club member, as it seems to, I'm out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHarry Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 9 hours ago, jelom said: this is possible too In which case you might get the 0.10% 100 drop and still get screwed out of 2 flowers. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shorty-er Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 8 hours ago, SoggyShorts said: Is it zero-sum? i.e. does the total amount of shards awarded equal 100, exclusive of the one tenth of one percent for a 100% drop? I was the first to fight the champion in my club. If it was a simple zero-sum I should then have had the total shards, as I had done all the damage up to that point. I was however still at the 1-3 shards. So it's not a simple zero-sum, but it might be related to the % of total impression required to win. Either way, the fact that the odds can go beyond 100 suggests to me it's something different. At the end one of our bigger players had contributed a lot, and got 22 shards. Me and one other player got 2, I don't know what everyone else got. One idea we're going to test after reset, is if spending kobans to reset the "resting" phase is a factor in this. So far I feel this is a missed opportunity. By giving all participants equal pay-out the big guns would have something to spend their stockpiles on, helping the lower level players in their club a bit while small fries like me happily contribute a % or 2. But then, I'm one of those small fries so I might be biased ;). With the unequal pay-out I can't help but wonder what the big guns in a club will do after they've collected the prize. And even if they wanted to help, their contribution while needed will also reduce the pay-out for the smaller players. That's a rather bad double sided blade. However this will turn out to work, I feel it is less of a binding factor in clubs than it could have been. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shorty-er Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 2 hours ago, Shorty-er said: One idea we're going to test after reset, is if spending kobans to reset the "resting" phase is a factor in this. Kobans to skip reset don't appear to make a difference. Seems like it really is only related to the impression a player has made. And as such, makes it more competing against fellow club members instead of a combined effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valgo Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 The time limit is a punishment if the club doesn't have enough hard hitter. They should remove the time limit but increase the number of impression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoggyShorts Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 5 hours ago, Shorty-er said: So far I feel this is a missed opportunity. By giving all participants equal pay-out the big guns would have something to spend their stockpiles on, helping the lower level players in their club a bit while small fries like me happily contribute a % or 2. But then, I'm one of those small fries so I might be biased ;). With the unequal pay-out I can't help but wonder what the big guns in a club will do after they've collected the prize. And even if they wanted to help, their contribution while needed will also reduce the pay-out for the smaller players. That's a rather bad double sided blade. I had the same thought. In our club, the imbalance was extreme. The top hitter did ~100k of the impression and received 87 shards. We had a pack of people in the 50-70k range who got single digit shards (and spent more tix for that impression than the leader is; he's quite strong). Then, another group of folks who managed a few million and got 1 or 2. The heavy-drop player is also the club owner and is extremely generous. I know that he will keep hitting. But generally, to what purpose? As you said, the act of helping reduces drops for everyone else. It's an absurd system. Seasons took a few months to get right. I'm of a mind to exercise the option to ignore this ... ...feature (I'm being kind) until it's more fair. Or screw fair, reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali-n Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 On a side note, anyone else besides me not seeing a countdown on the original Champions? The one attached should say something like "20 h xx m remaining" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocJD Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 As I understand it, the champion will be available for a month. If someone (or ones) in the club is rich enough in kobans to refresh the 24 hour wait time you can fight every day, In that case each player only has to earn just over 3 shards/day average. Without refreshing early, each player will need to win a little over 6 shards per Champion Battle. Some big hitters may collect most of the shards early, and also get the girl early. But then, if you have a cooperative club, the big guys will just contribute enough the make sure the smaller guys can finish the fight in the 24 hour limit and help the others get their shards. The first club I joined was horrible. No one chatted, gave advice, answered questions, etc. Very few members made contributions either. I left and found a much better club where people do cooperate. It was actively well run by the person who started it and non-contributors were "released." Even now, our chat is lenghtly as we discuss strategy for Champions. That is the whole point of the clubs, I think. The Club Champions Contest may reveal which clubs are well run and members of poorly run clubs may start migrating to other clubs. It does NOT have to be members competing against each other, but that may happen in crappy clubs. Since the Champion level is related to the club level in some way, I suspect kinkoid wants people to succeed (in the same way they wanted people to succeed in Seasons). After the first month they may need to tweak something but I give them the benefit of the doubt that they want this to work. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHarry Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 Yes, communication is key. People who get the girl quick should after just contribute enough to make the list of participating players as high as possible, without being the major contributer so you leave the others a chance to grab more shards. We have an active chat with good cooperative members and that helps a lot to arrange this. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoggyShorts Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 1 hour ago, DHarry said: Yes, communication is key. People who get the girl quick should after just contribute enough to make the list of participating players as high as possible, without being the major contributer so you leave the others a chance to grab more shards. We have an active chat with good cooperative members and that helps a lot to arrange this. The problem is the floor. Even if you solo, the drop rate is 1-100. That could be 1. On 1-30-ish and 1-40-ish spreads for my contributions, I've received 4 shards each time. You increase the possibility of a higher number of shards with your proportion of the impression, but it's just a larger spread, not a larger reward. The dynamic that's unfolding in my club is that people who do 50m impression have only slightly higher drops than people who do enough to get 1-3 shards. From a certain perspective, this is actually rational: the spread's smaller, so your reward for effort is more consistent. Of course, that mindset won't get a champ down. For my part, I'm not particularly strong yet. Why should I blow 30 tix for 50m impression and get 4 shards, get pissed off, and not want to bother with it at all when I can instead spend 6 tix, do 10m, and get 1-3 shards? The balance of those tix is much better spent on the real champions, where I'm a stage away from one of the strongest KH girls in the game? That's a guaranteed win because I ground it out. Shtupra will likely come in the same way: 8 effing times through that meat grinder with 5 down. But I don't get frustrated (much) when I get a hat or a monkey suit or whatever because my exposure to the RNG happens once every 300 or so tix, and it only happens a maximum of 7 times. The 8th time is guaranteed, and I work for guarantees because of my relationship with the RNG. Frankly, if this champ were grindable, say, twice as strong, mandatory 10 min cooldown, but no tix, I'd be perfectly happy with crappy drop rates. Well, no, but... I'd grind that sucker all day. Grinding games are a horrible trap for me because if you give me something to grind, I will do so until my eyeballs prune up. What we have instead is something that's veiled-competitive and divisive within clubs with exposure to the RNG increasing the more you do and creating resource competition for the vast majority of players who aren't hitting the real Champs electively. And what happens if you're a key contributor and hit a fat-ass drop and then a medium-ass drop, and you're done? We don't actually know that yet, or at least, I don't. Any club with a sizable level spread will have to at least consider some kind of normative move because this ...feature just made spots in the club valuable. We have really active lower level players. They're in chat, they ask questions, they take the stimulus and run with it. This ...feature has made them a 'liability' because the mainstays can in no way afford the tix to keep knocking this thing down. We're considering forming teams in order to create a breather in which our tix can recover a bit. Those newer players that we absolutely will not get rid of need time. The rational thing is to ignore the ...feature altogether until they're all stronger. If my options are to ignore/wait, boot people who can't do much yet, or pound myself resource-broke for virtually no chance of success while ignoring guaranteed wins, I'll do the rational thing. I'll ignore. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Kenrae Posted February 12, 2021 Moderator Share Posted February 12, 2021 Keep in mind what happened to Seasons at first and how they fine-tuned them. I like the base idea of the club champs but it needs tweaking to work for all type of clubs (or at least all types of active clubs, I don't thing they should cater to clubs with an inactive leader and mostly inactive members). Since KK did that for Seasons I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antimon Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 Il 10/2/2021 in 15:57 , jl05419 ha scritto: To add to the problem, most high lvl players already have full teams of 5* leg girls. I'm sure that when I'll be a little more rested I'll find this a ton less funny than what I'm experiencing right now. I'm sorry, both for the OT and for my future self's dignity 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shorty-er Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 22 hours ago, ali-n said: On a side note, anyone else besides me not seeing a countdown on the original Champions? The one attached should say something like "20 h xx m remaining" Yup, I noticed that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jelom Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) 22 hours ago, ali-n said: On a side note, anyone else besides me not seeing a countdown on the original Champions? The one attached should say something like "20 h xx m remaining" Did the original champions have the countdown before the patch? Edited February 12, 2021 by jelom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoggyShorts Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 9 hours ago, Kenrae said: Keep in mind what happened to Seasons at first and how they fine-tuned them. I like the base idea of the club champs but it needs tweaking to work for all type of clubs (or at least all types of active clubs, I don't thing they should cater to clubs with an inactive leader and mostly inactive members). Since KK did that for Seasons I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. Well-said, Kenrae. That's precisely why I am being vocal with my perceptions. I feel that our club is fairly normal: level spread, a few heavies, a lot of up-and-comers. I feel like we're sort of the target group for this, or should be, and if KK swings and misses, it's important that they know our perceptions. My hope is that this gets tweaked the way Seasons did. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hastur Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 5 hours ago, jelom said: Did the original champions have the countdown before the patch? Yes, the original champions had a visible countdown in the area indicated by @ali-n in the screenshot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer_X Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 On 2/10/2021 at 10:11 PM, jelom said: this is possible too On 2/10/2021 at 10:35 PM, fenronin said: Yeah, someone in my time went to 1-282 shards range drop (and got 17 lol), we managed to beat already 3 times the champion Dunno you guys, but this makes me think that this side of the new feature is a little (if not quite) buggy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeMTO Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 33 minutes ago, Observer_X said: Dunno you guys, but this makes me think that this side of the new feature is a little (if not quite) buggy. How so? We know it's possible to receive more than 100 shards at a time in other parts of the game, so what about this implies a bug? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexian Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 22 hours ago, jelom said: Did the original champions have the countdown before the patch? yes it was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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