New battle mechanics strategies

[Kenrae]

Ok, I guess we can start to discuss them, right? Besides, there will be changes so we can keep an ongoing discussion here when they come.

In general, it's like we are all now "Hardcore". Our crits do more damage, just more than the HC class of old (x2 instead of x1.5). They've fixed the class imbalances by making everybody the same  .

Since this is now about doing the most damage possible and finishing the fights faster so that you receive less hits, cordyceps seem to be the best boosters on most situations.

One thing of note is that blessings can change what the best boosters are. I remember @Slynia and myself saying that now chlorellas are better than gingsengs in the first week, and @DvDivXXX raising some doubts. I don't think that's the case anymore. It was an effect of having a 40% blessing on mythic girls. Chlorellas (and cordyceps, but those are always the best) raise your final stats (attack or ego), so they raise the totals you get from your own stats and from your girls. But gingseng raise your base stats so they don't have any effect on the stats you receive from your girls. Since we were getting a huge boost from them (those with mythic girls, of course) that made chlorellas better than gingseng during that week.

Ok, it seems that the scoring system change is actually a bug, so they'll eventually fix it and make things more interesting.

By the way, don't you have the sensation that we don't have snapshots anymore?

Edited August 5, 2021 by Kenrae

[Slynia]

3 hours ago, Kenrae said:

By the way, don't you have the sensation that we don't have snapshots anymore?

It seems to have been moved forward 1 hour, so instead of (server time) 12 and 6 am/pm, it's now 1 and 7 am/pm.

According to my simulations, chlorellas are still better than ginsengs (for me) in the majority of my setups with full multistat items. Ginseng only start to be favored when running more mono items, which is very risky to do now when your opponents can crit more than once. Cordyceps are still hands down the best boosters overall.

[jelom]

Still the better strategy is catching people unboosted as before. Most players have at least one snapshot unboosted during the week, so it is just a question of having enough time to check them out.

[JustVisiting]

It also seems to me that Monday blessing change-overs provide a significant opportunity. If you can get your optimised blessed team in place asap there are likely to be other that don't get there as quickly. This presents another chance to catch players at sub-optimal stats outside of the standard booster lapses.

Edited August 5, 2021 by JustVisiting

[Kenrae]

2 hours ago, Slynia said:

It seems to have been moved forward 1 hour, so instead of (server time) 12 and 6 am/pm, it's now 1 and 7 am/pm.

That's... unfortunate. I won't be there at 1 am usually  .

That means the snapshot is 10-15 minuts after the league start and the blessings change. Interesting...

[blaa]

2 hours ago, Kenrae said:

That means the snapshot is 10-15 minuts after the league start and the blessings change. Interesting...

yeah, that's pretty great for me though, it's less stressful in the evening; also i like i can do more task around reset, saves me some time in the morning

about strategy. so far there is not much strategy: fight all unboosted players if you can, use cordys (sometimes chlorella is better, sometimes ginseng, but it doesnt really matter), for mid level players like me there might be some good reasons to use at least 1x 4 cordys for higher players, but it's not a must, i guess

[JustVisiting]

This may not be the intended purpose for this thread - which would appear to be a more advanced conversation about booster strategies for those really challenging to win D3 - but I thought I'd offer some more general commentary on the new battle system.

It's all about stars.

That statement is easy to misread. I've seen a lot of people complaining that the new system is even more unbalanced than the old and to compete you now need 7 Mythics rather than 3. In my opinion, this is fundamentally incorrect. Without the Blessings, yes this new system would simply be about having the 7 strongest Mythics (assuming that sooner or later a wave of Mythics will be release that have fractionally stronger stats than the previous Mythics, as has happened with the Legendary 5 stars). But the Blessings change everything.

Yes Mythics are important and those players that have all the Mythics will have an overall advantage (though not necessarily an advantage on any given week). But the really important factor is star ratings combined with Blessings. With a reasonable Blessing a 5 star rare girl will normally be a better choice for your team than an unblessed 5 star Legendary. A blessed 5 star Legendary will be a better selection than an unblessed 6 star Mythic. A blessed 5 star Epic - I haven't actually looked at the numbers - may even be better than an unblessed 6 star Mythic. Mythics are not always the best choice and if you are playing optimally, it would be an unusual week where you'd put forward a full team of Mythics.

5 stars have become a lot more valuable than they were under the old system, where they were effectively made redundant by Mythics. If you just go in with a team of 7 Mythics, you're going to get beaten with players who are using their 5 stars strategically. It's a shame there aren't more Epic 5 stars out there and I do wonder if we're likely to see more of these in the future.

3 stars haven't really changed in value much. They were never a great choice under the old system. Generally they only make a good choice under the new system where you can find a 3 star that has both attributes that are blessed in any given week. Depending on their rarity that is likely to make them a better choice than any other unblessed character.

As I said, having all the Mythics is always going to be an advantage, primarily because you increase the chances of catching a Blessing on a Mythic. But it's unlikely you're going to get that every week (at least until there's a lot more of them available). So your team is likely going to comprise of 3-5 Mythics combined with 2-4 other girls who have caught good Blessings. Your Mythics are going to be the core of your team, there to fill the spaces that you don't have blessed girls to fill. It then becomes really important to gather as many 5 stars as you can - which are far less costly to obtain - to give you the best chance of catching Blessings to reduce the number of Mythics you need.

Or alternatively, you could look to go down the road of catching as many 3 star girls as possible. They are again generally cheaper to get and far more plentiful in number. This increases your chances of getting a double blessing.

And you don't have to have all your girls upgraded all the time - I keep a 2 star minimum and am employing a strategy where I max out the girls that are going to be useful next week. With a week's notice on upcoming Blessings there's time to save up to upgrade anyone other than an Mythic (I don't pick up a Mythic until I have the Aff resources to upgrade fully).

Yes, to be competitive you are going to need some Mythics, but these are achievable even for f2p players (I have 2 and enough resourced to add another 2 when the right opportunities come along). And yes, when a Mythic that you don't have catches a Blessing, you likely want to accept this isn't going to be your week if you're competing in D3 (I have a note of the attributes for each of the Mythic girls to watch for this even though I'm not in D3 yet). But many if not most weeks a small number of Mythics and some decent Blessings will give you a very competitive team.

[Kenrae]

2 hours ago, JustVisiting said:

A blessed 5 star Epic - I haven't actually looked at the numbers - may even be better than an unblessed 6 star Mythic. 

They are right now, the two of them.

Look at this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kVZxcZZMa82lS4k-IpxTTTELAeaipjR_v1twlqW5vbI/edit#gid=218076441

[blaa]

yeah, mythics arent necessarily the go to, next week on nutaku we even have 2x 3* legendaries (cause of double blessing) in the top7, but it's still heavily unbalanced since the level still has the most impact, especially with 3-13-15-25 point-system.

the only strategy there might be to be discussed is if it's worth permaboosting, but if 30 points are really that helpful, i dont know

[Kenrae]

2 hours ago, blaa said:

the only strategy there might be to be discussed is if it's worth permaboosting, but if 30 points are really that helpful, i dont know

At least with Chlorellas why not. We're drowning in them  

[DvDivXXX]

The thing is that those who have all the Mythics not only have the strongest possible line-up when Blessings are of little impact, but they also always have the one or the few Mythic(s) who benefit from Blessings whenever that happens. For instance, right now, indeed most Mythics are weaker than specific (double-)blessed girls of other rarities. Except for Bunna, who is THE strongest girl of the week. So, those who have all the Mythics have that advantage, and they always will.

Of course, it's not always going to be as ridiculously punishing as it was the very first time with +40% on all Mythics. But whenever any Mythic is blessed, whales and active veterans who have them all will have that edge over persistent min-maxers who don't have the koban-printing machines in their arsenal. And that's a big balance issue.

On 8/5/2021 at 5:52 PM, Slynia said:

chlorellas are still better than ginsengs (for me) in the majority of my setups with full multistat items. Ginseng only start to be favored when running more mono items

This sounds über counter-intuitive... Chlores normally shine with mono and gins with multi. I'm still experimenting, honestly, and as Ken said, it can vary depending on the blessings and settings to an extent, but so far I've had better results with chlores than gins in the new meta. Cords are still vital, but not as vital as before it seems. Obviously, this depends on your own level compared to your opponents, as always, but even more with the new scoring system.

On 8/5/2021 at 6:10 PM, jelom said:

Still the better strategy is catching people unboosted as before.

That's not a strategy, it's just one obvious thing to do if you want to compete seriously. We all do it, and now with the change of Blessings happening mid-league, most dedicated league players will also add the Monday switch snapshot as a key window of opportunity, as JV mentioned.

The bigger issue, especially for players who are at a disadvantage by default due to the XP-based imbalance and also now the Mythic collection imbalance, is that even if you do the best you can and optimize like crazy, you're getting a LOT of 15-point "wins" that would previously have been closer to 20 points on average in the old system. There's no magic trick to turn a 15-point fight into a 25-point one, unfortunately. Even if the other guy is unboosted, has a suboptimal line-up, and you put your best foot forward. Typically, where I would previously be able to snatch some real wins versus 470+ players, now I have to settle for 2 measly extra points compared to what I'd score if I just attacked them whenever (and took the 13-point "loss"). Obviously, it's still worth it for me for the XP alone, but in terms of how well I can do in the league itself, this is a big loss.

[JustVisiting]

13 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

The thing is that those who have all the Mythics not only have the strongest possible line-up when Blessings are of little impact, but they also always have the one or the few Mythic(s) who benefit from Blessings whenever that happens. For instance, right now, indeed most Mythics are weaker than specific (double-)blessed girls of other rarities. Except for Bunna, who is THE strongest girl of the week. So, those who have all the Mythics have that advantage, and they always will

Agreed, but this assumes that they have EVERY girl allowing them to field the strongest line-up from the non-Mythics (admittedly, many of them do). Otherwise, getting a little luck and having the right girls provides the challenger an advantage. 

The old system basically allowed the vets to lock in the top strength with 3xMythics of their class. With that and their level advantage they were effectively untouchable every week.

With this system, while level still provides a significant and effectively unassailable advantage, there are going to be weeks where the Mythics aren't the dominating force. Therefore there will be some weeks where players who don't have all the Mythics have more of a chance than they had before, even sometimes to play on a level footing.

It's not addressed all of the imbalances in the system, but I would suggest it is actually an improvement over the previous system and I certainly don't think that you now have to have 7 Mythics to compete.

[DvDivXXX]

23 minutes ago, JustVisiting said:

The old system basically allowed the vets to lock in the top strength with 3xMythics of their class. With that and their level advantage they were effectively untouchable every week.

23 minutes ago, JustVisiting said:

It's not addressed all of the imbalances in the system, but I would suggest it is actually an improvement over the previous system and I certainly don't think that you now have to have 7 Mythics to compete.

I don't know at what stage you are in your journey through this game, but the above statements are outright false for D3 and for players who compete fiercely against the imbalances in general. You seem to have taken my "now you need 7 Mythics instead of just 3" ironical statement from the Patch Notes thread too literally, as well.

In the previous system, of course high-level players all had the optimal 3-girl line-up for their class. But guess what? So did I. Because in the old system I COULD. So no, they were FAR from "untouchable". They had huge advantages stacked up due to the gross imbalance of the PvP system (and they still do), but at least I was able to have the optimal 3-girl line-up for my class as well. So when I did catch higher-level players unboosted, I was able to beat them and score decent points. It's WAY worse now, because suddenly instead of blood, sweat and tears every three months to stay up to date with my own class' Mythics, I would need to go back in time and start the game in 2017 instead of 2019 to be on an equal footing with those guys.

Additionally,whales previously had almost no real advantage; now they do, because apart from those who routinely finish in top 4 or even outright win their D3 due to the level advantage, those who throw tons of real-money at the game are the ONLY ones who can realistically grab more than a third of the Mythics getting released, let alone all of them. So now, even players with a similar or lower level than me can be very tough or even impossible to really beat (that is, not a fake 15-point "win") if they happen to pay to win. That wasn't the case at all in the old system.

On top of all this, contrary to Rosso's wishful thinking daydream, the new system allows for a lot LESS strategy variation, and a lot LESS varied experience. The previous system actually had three different classes with separate collections of girls, and that was the most important part of strategy. You could safely pass up on strong, expensive girls not of your class and focus on constantly improving your own class collection. We also had various subtle mechanical things to rely upon with enough experience and intimate knowledge of how each class worked individually and versus each other class. All of that is gone. As Ken said, now we're all just one dumbed-down "class" and every girl of every "class" actually has a chance (or dare I say risk) to have an impact in PvP at some point or another. This means that those who could previously kind of keep up by specializing and min-maxing, such as myself, are now very much fucked in that regard. And not just for Mythcis, although these are the most impactful ones, and also the least accessible ones for those on a budget (let alone F2P who didn't start early enough to have the permanent "old account wins" advantage).

If you still think this new system is an improvement, then let's agree to disagree and move on. I'd be interested to know your level and the division you play in, though. I'm level 424 and I play in D3, myself. And I used to be a Know-How player, before they killed classes. Cheers.

[Slynia]

46 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

This sounds über counter-intuitive... Chlores normally shine with mono and gins with multi.

Let me elaborate from my pov.

Ginseng have the potential to finish a fight with 1 hit less compared to Chlorella thanks to that little dmg boost, which becomes more obvious with mono equipment.
That's why I said that "Ginseng only start to be favored..." because that potential becomes higher. In any case where you don't finish a fight with one less hit, Chlorella outshines Ginseng. The little extra defense and ego from ginseng is less worth in my average fights than the raw ego from Chlorella. Before when we had 16-25 Ginseng was better than Chlorella simply because that extra defense was so good at bullying weak opponents, now I'm guaranteed 25 against them anyway...

And as always, I can only speak from my own POV and simulations/testing as someone on the top of my league. Your situation is definitely different in more ways than one.

[Kenrae]

17 minutes ago, Slynia said:

Let me elaborate from my pov.

Ginseng have the potential to finish a fight with 1 hit less compared to Chlorella thanks to that little dmg boost, which becomes more obvious with mono equipment.
That's why I said that "Ginseng only start to be favored..." because that potential becomes higher. In any case where you don't finish a fight with one less hit, Chlorella outshines Ginseng. The little extra defense and ego from ginseng is less worth in my average fights than the raw ego from Chlorella. Before when we had 16-25 Ginseng was better than Chlorella simply because that extra defense was so good at bullying weak opponents, now I'm guaranteed 25 against them anyway...

And as always, I can only speak from my own POV and simulations/testing as someone on the top of my league. Your situation is definitely different in more ways than one.

There's something else. Now the base stats give less ego, because your secondary stat is not giving it. That makes gingseng worse in general.

[blaa]

1 hour ago, DvDivXXX said:

On top of all this, contrary to Rosso's wishful thinking daydream, the new system allows for a lot LESS strategy variation, and a lot LESS varied experience. 

i agree, but to be fair, what rosso was talking about was not the current system, but the one we will have in a few months, i.e. elements, personal girl skills&upgrades etc. It really might be more strategic then, but for newer player it's probably gonna be harder to be on the same level than a veteran or whale as it was before. But that's only a guess, we'll see when they introduce it and how easy it is to get the new currency/ies.

One big improvement would be the old scoring system, it still feels like that would be fairer. And even though they currently not planning to change rewards, they should really flatten the curve, just give the lower places more and take it from the top. But we talked about this already many times.

And, ofc, my favorite topic: if they could communicate their concrete plans that would help too, even if they wouldnt manage it in time.

Edited August 7, 2021 by blaa

[Slynia]

58 minutes ago, Kenrae said:

There's something else. Now the base stats give less ego, because your secondary stat is not giving it. That makes gingseng worse in general.

I know, I'm the one who posted about it in the other thread in the Q&A section 😉 Not only that, your main stat also isnt giving the expected +5 endurance either. Play around with your gear everyone, it's not making sense ATM.

[La Kajira]

On 8/7/2021 at 11:00 AM, JustVisiting said:

Agreed, but this assumes that they have EVERY girl allowing them to field the strongest line-up from the non-Mythics (admittedly, many of them do). Otherwise, getting a little luck and having the right girls provides the challenger an advantage. 

The old system basically allowed the vets to lock in the top strength with 3xMythics of their class. With that and their level advantage they were effectively untouchable every week.

With this system, while level still provides a significant and effectively unassailable advantage, there are going to be weeks where the Mythics aren't the dominating force. Therefore there will be some weeks where players who don't have all the Mythics have more of a chance than they had before, even sometimes to play on a level footing.

It's not addressed all of the imbalances in the system, but I would suggest it is actually an improvement over the previous system and I certainly don't think that you now have to have 7 Mythics to compete.

Others saved me quite a bit of typing here...thanks ^^
So...just a couple details on top of what has already been said about the new system indeed giving veterans and whales a larger advantage than the previous one.

 

You didn't need 3 mythics to be competitive in the old system. One was enough. Because of the huge excitement needs, a mythic was in the overwhelming majority of cases not optimal for the Alpha position. You'd want to keep a 5* there. And Omega rarely had any meaningful impact on the match. So you only really needed a mythic in the Beta position. 

Where you could get more effect from 3 was defense. Because of the 1 crit limit for defenders, you could forego a large part of harmony for defending, slap in 3 mythics (or 2 for alpha and beta at least) and put on enough mono-stat items to get an orgasm on turn three. That made people suffer when attacking you. But you'd still need to permaboost, or close enough to actually leave any meaningful dent in strong player attackers and get a turn three orgasm. Most of the good ones would wait for you to unboost. So the only time when more than one mythic made a meaningful difference was if you used different team and different gear for defending and also were permaboosting. And even that difference was just a couple points (as opposed to just permaboosting...which also didn't give you that much unless you were the highest lvl where you had a big advantage regardless)

 

Another thing that makes the new system favor high lvls more than the old one is that the total stats you get from girls now is higher than it was before. And therefore the stats you get from them for each levelup is also higher.

Then there's the simple fact that it's not just the mythics that veterans and whales have more than others, but girls in general. So even if no mythics appear in the top spots for a given set of blessings, vets and whales are more likely to have the optimal team available than other players.

And that's for now. More bonuses are to be implemented. Some of which calculate from your entire harem, not just the team of seven. That again favors vets and whales. Hard to tell about the other part of the things that are yet to be implemented. We'll see. And hope that the currency for improving girls' bonuses is not available for real money which would give whales another advantage. But...I'm not holding my breath.

[La Kajira]

On 8/7/2021 at 12:57 PM, Slynia said:

I know, I'm the one who posted about it in the other thread in the Q&A section 😉 Not only that, your main stat also isnt giving the expected +5 endurance either. Play around with your gear everyone, it's not making sense ATM.

I was watching things change as I was buying market stats after a levelup.

Seems like both secondary/tertiary attributes now give 0.5 harmony per point, no endurance.

Not sure if that's intended. May very well be a bug. Just your everyday spaghetti stuff

Edited August 8, 2021 by La Kajira

[JustVisiting]

On 8/7/2021 at 10:24 AM, DvDivXXX said:

 So when I did catch higher-level players unboosted, I was able to beat them and score decent points.

My first point would be this - there hasn't been any change here. The dynamic of looking for unboosted players to beat still exists. If you're saying that unboosted players are no longer as vulnerable, I haven't noticed that dynamic myself, but that's perhaps my view is being distored by being in a lower, less competitive league, or other factors.
 

On 8/7/2021 at 10:24 AM, DvDivXXX said:

Additionally,whales previously had almost no real advantage; now they do, because apart from those who routinely finish in top 4 or even outright win their D3 due to the level advantage, those who throw tons of real-money at the game are the ONLY ones who can realistically grab more than a third of the Mythics getting released, let alone all of them. So now, even players with a similar or lower level than me can be very tough or even impossible to really beat (that is, not a fake 15-point "win") if they happen to pay to win. That wasn't the case at all in the old system.

There are a couple of points to make here.

Firstly, I did say in my first post, admittedly in a more round about way, that picking and choosing the weeks where you feel you can be competitive was likely required. If you felt that under the previous system you were always competitive, then yes, this is not going to be an improvement. But take the example of the top teams on the Nutaku server this week and next:

 

This week I'd consider it a waste of time to compete because there's no possiblity that I could compose an optimum team (the Blessings were rubbish and it resulted in 7 Mythics being optimal). Next week however, despite being significantly younger than yourself or many other players, I could field a very competitive team. Random chance has left me with enough of the top girls to feel competitive.

So I didn't intend to suggest that the new system was going to give a better chance every week, just some weeks.

Secondly - and this may be a false assumption on my part - I am assuming that the current 3/13/15/25 system will be gone soon. It seems like an obvious unintended result of the new system and it seems likely to me that it will get changed to utilise the range of points available in the nearish future. So yes, as long as you're of a lower level and going to default to 15s rather than 20s while higher levels are more likely to default to 25s rather than 20s that is going to make things a LOT tougher. If this mechanic  doesn't change as I expect that likely ends the discussion.

Finally - I do think that if you are going to play a 'freemium' competitive game of this nature, you have to accept that the developers are going to look to build in advantages for p2p players. That's the nature of the economic model. For myself, this model doesn't work at all - any enjoyment I take from playing is in overcoming a challenge, via hard work and strategy. I would take no gratification from 'buying' a win and any spend would diminish the experience for me. I'm not adverse to supporting the developers - a donation option I'd likely use. But the moment you tied spend to in game advantage, it'd take away from the 'fun' part of the game for me.

The nature of this model means that there are always going to be players who simply buy everything and yes, it's going to be very tough to compete with them if you don't spend. That is the core mechanic of a freemium game - allow the player to work really hard and have to wait to gain rewards, while offering a short cut to the rewards behind a pay gate. This imbalance is a natural aspect of this type of game. Personally I might prefer things to be different, but if I was that bothered by it I'd choose a different game model.

That said, I have also waxed lyrical in the past regarding the fine line that KK have to walk here. If they provide p2p players too large an advantage and reduce the entertainment for f2p they could end-up with a declining player base and a game that's less fun for their p2p players.
 

On 8/7/2021 at 10:24 AM, DvDivXXX said:

I'd be interested to know your level and the division you play in, though. I'm level 424 and I play in D3, myself. And I used to be a Know-How player, before they killed classes. Cheers.

Level 321 and D1 playing since tail end of 2020. I mentioned potentially distoring factors above - I moved into D1 in the first week on the new system. Being in a new league at the start of this removed the baseline I would previously have had to compare the systems. I wasn't sure what the step-up in difficultly was going to be. The first week was very tough but I still managed to get to #16, which was my target. In subsequent weeks I've realised that the first week wasn't naturally that tough but a consequence of the bug exploit that happened at the time. I tend to consistently be in the bottom 10% of players by level, but can consistently achieve at or a few points from #16 (artifical constraint of not being willing to go over this position). When I make it around the bottom 20-25% I tend to go for advancement and have comfortably managed a top 4 finish at these points. I am/was KH as well.

You have a lot more experience than me and I've no doubt that time may teach some painful lessons, so while I do still broadly think that the above is accurate, I do accept that reality could end up being a harsh wake-up call

18 hours ago, La Kajira said:

Then there's the simple fact that it's not just the mythics that veterans and whales have more than others, but girls in general. So even if no mythics appear in the top spots for a given set of blessings, vets and whales are more likely to have the optimal team available than other players.

Agreed, but my point was that unless they have all the girls there are opportunities just through the RNG and what girl pops-up for you in Pachinko.

I would also point out that over time there is a boundary on this particular differential. I save Koban aggressively, rarely spending anything. But my average girl collection rate/month still appears to exceed the release of new girls (as opposed to reissues). If that trend was to continue it is a slower road for a f2p player, but ultimately they will catch-up to the vet/whale in terms of number of girls, trending to the same boundary ultimately. Likewise with levels - as each level requires greater amounts of experience, lower level players should naturally advance quicker. So for a level 450 player, if you're optimising your experience gain, you should still be 'catching-up' to a level 490 player, even if it is slowly.

Thanks for the responses chaps! They make for interesting reading

Edited August 9, 2021 by JustVisiting

[DvDivXXX]

4 hours ago, JustVisiting said:

If you're saying that unboosted players are no longer as vulnerable, I haven't noticed that dynamic myself, but that's perhaps my view is being distored by being in a lower, less competitive league

It is:

4 hours ago, JustVisiting said:

Level 321 and D1 playing since tail end of 2020.

At that stage, you won't see a lot of really competitive players, and a majority of sub-optimal or even plain bad line-ups. So the system change likely has a smaller and less consistent impact in your current environment than it has in D3, where most players optimize or at least pay attention to their line-up.

4 hours ago, JustVisiting said:

If you felt that under the previous system you were always competitive, then yes, this is not going to be an improvement.

Indeed, and it wasn't just a feeling either. I've been noting down my results and documenting my progress for a long time. I was consistently competitive (as much as my lower level allows in this "more XP, more power" biased environment), every week. Sometimes I had a harder league and had to settle for a top 30, but more and more frequently I was able to secure a top 15. Over the past year in D3. So yes, the new system with more RNG and a bigger advantage to the opponents I had already the most difficulty to beat is bad news for me, and any other non-veteran, non-whale competitive league player.

4 hours ago, JustVisiting said:

'freemium' competitive game of this nature, you have to accept that the developers are going to look to build in advantages for p2p players. That's the nature of the economic model.

It is, for most freemium games. That's not really in line with what Kinkoid did for HH until quite recently, though. And especially not for the leagues, where by far the biggest possible advantage comes from being an active veteran, regardless of whether you're a big spender or even F2P. They've started CXH with a very blatant P2W model, in contrast, with paywalls right away and a cascade of benefits for paying customers over F2P players. But it's very different for HH, despite a few recent changes giving P2W power, like the sudden combat advantage given by owning more Mythics than it's possible to collect as F2P.

Anyway, yeah, good talk.

[Shorty-er]

Good talk, indeed. I do feel DvDivXXX's point below still stands:

On 8/7/2021 at 11:24 AM, DvDivXXX said:

In the previous system, of course high-level players all had the optimal 3-girl line-up for their class. But guess what? So did I. Because in the old system I COULD. So no, they were FAR from "untouchable". They had huge advantages stacked up due to the gross imbalance of the PvP system (and they still do), but at least I was able to have the optimal 3-girl line-up for my class as well.

What so far hasn't been explicitly mentioned yet (or maybe I just missed it) is that it is not just that you need more girls in your harem, you need to have more girls at max affinity and max level. The shortage of xp and affinity items has only been made worse with the introduction of mythical girls and only "solved" for whales and owners of Koban printing presses D3 winners willing to spend kobans on overpriced mythical items. The recent drop of market renewal time from 8 to 6 hours only in part compensates for the damage done by the introduction of mythical items in the market, and did nothing to fix the reduced usefulness of market refreshes.

Where in the past I could spread out xp items over my whole harem, to have the best effect of the XP on my harem bonus to endurance, I now need to keep all 6-star, all 5 star, and legendary 3 stars at max level (or keep items at hand to update those "blessed" for a week). That comes at the cost of leveling 1-stars and non-legendary 3 stars, thus at a cost to my endurance bonus.

21 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

That's not really in line with what Kinkoid did for HH until quite recently, though. 

If this is what is in the future for HH, more and more P2W, I wish KK would just rip the band-aid off and get on with it. Then I'd least I would stop feeling like the proverbial frog in water slowly brought to boil and I could bail this madness. I can see how doing it slowly might keep people aboard who would jump ship at a sudden big lunge into P2W, but if more people are like me, well... every time I start thinking about spending some $ on the game, KK makes one these changes and it just reminds me why I had decided not to spend $ until I know what we're ending up with. 

[DHarry]

I don't think many whales spend money on those overpriced mythic items though. They restock. That's cheaper even for me, but a proper whale has a platinum card and then restock is comes at a 50% discount. Restocking for 21 kobans is fun I imagine.

 

The only one that's a bit attractive is the mythic spell book. Because it doesn't just give you all xp to get to your level, you also only have to click once for it. Did that for a mythic girl and it was totally worth it. 🤣

But I agree with the argument. You only needed to funnel all your effort in the top 3-5 girls you needed to be very competitive. Now you can't. Now so far I'm managing, but it's tough. And they change every 5 friggin days.

[La Kajira]

Seriously?! They changed the scoring mid-league? Come on....
Eh, not like it's actually surprising, or anything. Oh, well...at least it is changed. It's something. An improvement for...the next week 

Edited August 11, 2021 by La Kajira

[Тёмный Властелин]

12 minutes ago, La Kajira said:

Seriously?! They changed the scoring mid-league? Come on....
Eh, not like it's actually surprising, or anything. Oh, well...at least it is changed. It's something. An improvement for...the next week 

To be honest, I liked the previous system with 15 and 25 points only. That way I could get more XP by scoring fifteens (in comparison with the old system, where I got 16s, 17s and 18s mostly) in a 16-30 league spot. In the past, due to your opponent's crit chance restricted to 1, you could equip all monostats and try to score as little as you can with tougher opponents and get more XP (script got you covered). Now, if you will do so, you will surely get a loss, cause you opponents can crit multiple times so you need to win with a margin to not get a loss => getting more points overall for your wins (less XP).

Considering that a lot more people rot in 16-30 spot in most of the leagues (don't want to promote, restrict themselves from doing battles, want to score as little as possible and do as much battles as possible), than those, who compete in D3 and don't stop themselves from doing all their battles, I think that this change is for the worse for the overall playerbase of the game.