pantheon Pantheon walls

[DvDivXXX]

42 minutes ago, EpicBacon said:

How much does a headband improve the chances with?
It's only 25% attack power, correct? So it does nothing defensively.

From "0% X" aka "not even in your wildest dreams" to, usually something like 5-10%. In other words, it makes ALL the difference, yes.

"Defensively" is not a concept that applies to high-level Pantheon in general and especially not to Walls. You MUST go absolutely all-in on ATTACK and pray for a good streak. There is NO other way. Full cordys (no question: even 1 gin 2 cos instead of 3 cos can change your odds from something small to nothing at all), full mono (usually, in some cases 1 or 2 rainbows can actually improve the odds, with trial and error). So in this context, attack being the only thing that matters, a massive extra boost on your attack is exactly what you need and the only thing you need.

[Ravi-Sama]

1 hour ago, EpicBacon said:

How much does a headband improve the chances with?
It's only 25% attack power, correct? So it does nothing defensively.

Does it just add the 25% at the end? beginning?, is it based on girl stats? or your base?
Do anyone really know?

I am not looking for some deep study with historgrams and whatnot; just a general overview of what it does; and what I could expect it to do for me, like would it put me into "might pass 1600 this blessing"

I had 165k atk w/ 1 gin + 2 cords + headband, at floor 1600, and a 4.97% win chance.  In leagues, my atk was 115k (w/o the headband's effect).  It increased my atk by 50k vs. the pantheon.  You just have to deal more dmg w/ critical hits, while taking less dmg, and you'll win.  The headband instantly boosts up your win %.

I switched to 3 cords, and maxed Blet to 700.  Equipped 4/2 mono/balanced gear.  My atk rose to 174k, & win chance rose to 7.51%.  Then, I won w/ 3 attempts.

I'm trying to figure out the math of player stats + girl stats * 3 cords * headband, and didn't quite figure it out yet.  I know blessings are just multiplied together.  You didn't want a deep answer anyway.  If I figure out the math, I'll update this.

On 6/3/2022 at 7:03 AM, Ravi-Sama said:

My odds of winning at floor 1600 was 3.4%.  I maxed out Blet from lvl 650 to lvl 700, by spending 1400 physical gems, (I have all of the CbC girls for June anyway).  She replaced Fanny and Fione which was the weakest link in my team.  Then, my odds of winning rose to 4.97%.  I tried and failed 12 times to pass floor 1600.  Decided to wait a couple of hours until my boosters ran out, and replace them w/ 3 cordyceps.  I spent 41 MPx1s to get the 3 cordyceps.  They're so scarce.  After having the proper boosters, my odds of winning rose to 7.51% if I used 4/2 mono/balanced gear, since 6 mono gear only gave a 4.9% win chance.  Then, I beat Floor 1600 after 3 tries.

After beating floor 1600, I had 331 CP saved up, and 13.5k kobans leftover.  Decided to continue upwards, since the fights were still easy (73-100% odds).  I had to purchase another HoD booster (450 kobans) after floor 1673, b/c the odds of winning dropped from 83% to 25% w/o the booster.

Edited August 4, 2022 by Ravi-Sama

[EpicBacon]

1 minute ago, Ravi-Sama said:

I had 165k atk w/ 1 gin + 2 cords + headband, at floor 1600, and a 4.97% win chance.  In leagues, my atk was 115k (w/o the headband's effect).  It increased it my atk by 50k vs. the pantheon.  You just have to deal more dmg w/ critical hits, while taking less dmg, and you'll win.  The headband instantly boosts up your win %.

I switched to 3 cords, and maxed Blet to 700.  Equipped 4/2 mono/balanced gear.  My atk rose to 174k, & win chance rose to 7.51%.  Then, I won w/ 3 attempts.

I'm trying to figure out the math of your stats + girl stats * 3 cords * headband, and didn't quite figure it out yet.  I know blessings are just multiplied together.  You didn't want a deep answer anyway.  If I figure out the math, I'll update this.

If you want my numbers; I can give you all the numbers you need; Just let me know what you want to see.
The main reason I only asked for an appoximation; was that I didnt want to bother anyone with this needlessly

[DvDivXXX]

Just now, EpicBacon said:

The main reason I only asked for an appoximation; was that I didnt want to bother anyone with this needlessly

Duuude! This thread is all about sharing and helping each other out for Pantheon. Don't hesitate to ask any and all questions or request any advice you might need for that here. How can you even assume you'd be bothering us? ❤️ 

[EpicBacon]

3 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

Duuude! This thread is all about sharing and helping each other out for Pantheon. Don't hesitate to ask any and all questions or request any advice you might need for that here. How can you even assume you'd be bothering us? ❤️ 

Well sure, but helping is not the same as : here a a bunch of numbers; please do complicated maths for me kthx!

[DvDivXXX]

Fair enough. Except maybe for Ravi, I think it might be a cool challenge for him (and a few others like Tom). But in general, and for me in particular, yeah, doing maths is where I draw the line. ^^

[Ravi-Sama]

22 minutes ago, EpicBacon said:

Well sure, but helping is not the same as : here a a bunch of numbers; please do complicated maths for me kthx!

Short answer is really just that you'll get ~50k more atk, and can win much easier, w/ the headband.  The math isn't for you, it's for me, lol.  If I figured it out perfectly, I could estimate my potential strength, w/o spending kobans.  Also, I don't mind giving feedback here, b/c it's like I get to vicariously beat floor 1600 again, through you.

Edited August 4, 2022 by Ravi-Sama

[EpicBacon]

13 minutes ago, Ravi-Sama said:

Short answer is really just that you'll get ~50k more atk, and can win much easier, w/ the headband.  The math isn't for you, it's for me, lol.  If I figured it out perfectly, I could estimate my potential strength, w/o spending kobans.  Also, I don't mind giving feedback here, b/c it's like I get to vicariously beat floor 1600 again, through you.

I'll have a look when the boosters drops off, I'm running 1 cordy and 2 ginseng atm.
As for girls, these are the best ones availible for me; there is a huge xp book drought going on atm,
and these are the (lucky?) ones to make it to 750

[Ravi-Sama]

Just now, EpicBacon said:

I'll have a look when the boosters drops off, I'm running 1 cordy and 2 ginseng atm.
As for girls, these are the best ones availible for me; there is a huge xp book drought going on atm,
and these are the (lucky?) ones to make it to 750

Damn!  750?!  You should have no problems.  I'm still ~1.2 mil GXP away from unlocking that.

[EpicBacon]

1 minute ago, Ravi-Sama said:

Damn!  750?!  You should have no problems.  I'm still ~1.2 mil GXP away from unlocking that.

I just have a huge distaste for mythical boosters; especially those AM ones for pvp 
 

[DvDivXXX]

Here I am (finally! despite odds around 1/5 it took me dozens of fights to grind my way through stages 1896 to 1898; then 1899 took like two tries ^^):

That's with three cordys, full mono, but no Headband equipped yet (it always sucks because that thing gets wasted on basic PvE fights, which is just as bad if not worse than AM getting wasted on Season fights). 

[EpicBacon]

There would have been nice if a small window or some mouse-over was abilible before you used said boosters so you could see how much it would impact you. In your case, you would have to do math to see if you would actually be in the positive.

Of cource the only reason we can see the percentages at all is because of a script...

[DvDivXXX]

Now, WITH the Headband equipped: 🚬

I have the feeling this might take awhile...

[Ravi-Sama]

On 8/4/2022 at 12:30 PM, DvDivXXX said:

Here I am (finally! despite odds around 1/5 it took me dozens of fights to grind my way through stages 1896 to 1898; then 1899 took like two tries ^^):

That's with three cordys, full mono, but no Headband equipped yet (it always sucks because that thing gets wasted on basic PvE fights, which is just as bad if not worse than AM getting wasted on Season fights). 

Yep, I see you on the leaderboard.  You're ranked 26th now, and one of the 19 players stuck at floor 1900.  Also, among the 36 players that beat floor 1800.  Last I checked, there's just 4 players on Nutaku stuck at floor 1900, and just 10 players there beat floor 1800.  In total, 23 players stuck at 1900, and 46 that passed 1800.  I noticed some other players from the forums.

• 6th - 1999 - Sovereign from Rarum's tough players thread
• 18th - 1924 - Kenrae (forum mod)
• 20th - 1899 - Joe (Sheriff/LAA thread)
• 26th - 1899 - DvDivXXX (Foot Lover/forum mod)
• 30th - 1859 - Slynia from the "performance handbook"
• 64th - 1799 - holymolly (loves Norou & Bianca/forum mod)
• 69th - 1799 - FinderKeeper (mod author of most event threads)
• 136th - 1699 - Tom (one of the script coders)
• 138th - 1699 - Pelinor (LAA thread)
• 148th - 1699 - Ravi-Sama (F2P, Otaku, booty loving, .gif enthusiast)
• 168th - 1658 - jelom (Gork poster above his bed/MP Thread)
• 184th - 1624 - Methos (MD threads)
• 240th - 1599 - Zteev (Gift Code thread)
• 245th - 1599 - EpicBacon (Pie Chart lover)
• 262nd - 1599 - bolitho76 (forum advisor)
• 299th - 1599 - MrX (CbC thread)
• 362 - 1545 - Rylarth (LAA thread)
• 639th - 1499 - Xemnas (art appreciator)
• 946th - 1499 - MightyThor (LAA thread)

17 of the players I recognized, got Capricorn so far, including myself.

Edited August 6, 2022 by Ravi-Sama

[Liliat]

il y a 30 minutes, DvDivXXX a dit :

Now, WITH the Headband equipped: 🚬

I was about to say: this doesn't make any sense; the numbers don't add up.

But it seems you changed more than just the boosters, 'cause all your stats are different 😛

[DvDivXXX]

30 minutes ago, Liliat said:

But it seems you changed more than just the boosters, 'cause all your stats are different

True, as I was using my Yellow team with 4/2 mono/rainbow for the previous stages, and I still had that when I took my initial screenshot right after reaching 1900. Then before equipping the Headband, I switched to my strongest team and determined the best equipment mix for that particular stage (which turns out to be 5/1 mono/rainbow).

For comparison, here's what it looks like with the exact same stuff I had in my first screenshot, with the only change being the Headband:

See? Still 0%, but the red cross next to it disappeared! ^^

EDIT: Okay, I see now that I had actually already switched to full mono (but didn't think to change my team for some reason) in my very first screenshot, so here's the actual comparison with the Headband being the ONLY change (for realz this time ^^):

2 chances in 10 thousands. Not too shabby.

Edited August 4, 2022 by DvDivXXX
updated

[Liliat]

il y a une heure, DvDivXXX a dit :

EDIT: Okay, I see now that I had actually already switched to full mono (but didn't think to change my team for some reason) in my very first screenshot, so here's the actual comparison with the Headband being the ONLY change (for realz this time ^^):

Thanks! So the boosters actually seem to multiply:

- Base attack (No boosters, assumed): 113k (/1.3 compared to screenshot 1)

- 3x Cordy Attack (x1.3): 147k (Screenshot 1)

- 3x Cordy + Booster: x1.625 (1.3x1.25): 184k (Screenshot 2, x1.25 compared to screenshot 1)

If the boosts "added" instead of "multiplied", we'd have a x1.55 attack bonus, for a total attack power of 175k in your case

[jelom]

2 hours ago, Ravi-Sama said:

Yep, I see you on the leaderboard. 

... many names and info ...

Not only in the leaderboard ... you know all about us, surely you are a spy, a hacker, ... I am searching for mics and cameras in my house right now and I have tightened the security in my PC and phone ...  (secretly thinking: I hope he still hasn't discovered that my favourite girl is Gork )

Edited August 4, 2022 by jelom

[Liliat]

il y a 16 minutes, jelom a dit :

(secretly thinking: I hope he still hasn't discovered that my favourite girl is Gork )

I mean, the giant poster above your bed gave you away a long time ago.

[Hugh Jerexion]

4 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

Now, WITH the Headband equipped: 🚬

 

3 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

See? Still 0%, but the red cross next to it disappeared! ^^

 

3 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

2 chances in 10 thousands. Not too shabby.

 

[bolitho76]

I could break the 1600 Wall!🎉🥳

With a chance of a little bit more than 40% I need 2 trys.

Edited August 4, 2022 by bolitho76

[Ravi-Sama]

11 hours ago, Ravi-Sama said:

I'm trying to figure out the math of player stats + girl stats * 3 cords * headband, and didn't quite figure it out yet.  I know blessings are just multiplied together.  You didn't want a deep answer anyway.  If I figure out the math, I'll update this.

10 hours ago, EpicBacon said:

...would have been nice if a small window or some mouse-over was available, before you used boosters so you could see how much it would impact you.

8 hours ago, Liliat said:

...the boosters actually seem to multiply:
- Base attack (No boosters, assumed): 113k (/1.3 compared to screenshot 1)
- 3x Cordy Attack (x1.3): 147k (Screenshot 1)
- 3x Cordy + Booster: x1.625 (1.3x1.25): 184k (Screenshot 2, x1.25 compared to screenshot 1)
If the boosts "added" instead of "multiplied", we'd have a x1.55 attack bonus, for a total attack power of 175k in your case

Yep, it checks out.  I made a table to experiment w/ it. 

Cordyceps (+10% atk) and the Headband's effect (+25% atk) all get multiplied by the player's base atk, just like blessings get multiplied by a girls' base stats.  You can figure out base atk by just checking it in leagues/seasons, w/o boosters equipped.  Also, if you have 3x cords equipped, then you could divide your atk by 1.1 cubed, to figure out your base atk, (boosted atk/(1.1^3) = base atk).  That can also estimate the atk stat of a player in leagues, after their 3x cords expired 😈.

It's safe to assume all boosters work this way.  Ginseng is more complicated.  I think it only increases the player's stats by 3x 6% (1.06^3), and not girl's stats.  I had 1 gin equipped in my past SS, that's why I had trouble figuring out the formula.

Your 1st screenshot w/ the same playful 188.4k total power team, full mono gear, and 3 cords, had ~147k atk, then 184k atk w/ the headband, a 25% increase.  Your base atk must've been ~110.4k atk, 33.1% less than 147k.  From that, we can estimate that you'd have a 169k atk in leagues w/ 3 cords & an AME.

147k / (1.1^3) = ~110.4k base atk w/ lvl 500 full mono gear

110.4k * (1.1^3) = 146.9k (atk w/ 3 cords)

147k * 1.15 = 169.05k (atk w/ 3 cords & an AME, in Leagues)

147k * 1.25 = 183.7k (atk w/ 3 cords & a headband, in the Pantheon)

11 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

That's with three cordys, full mono, but no Headband equipped yet

9 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

actual comparison with the Headband being the ONLY change (for realz this time ^^):

Now, I've gotta figure out how the base atk stat is determined.  I know your main mono stat (charm in my case), gets added to the team girls' mono stat somehow.  Your level, market bought stat points, equipment, boosters, and club bonus also affect it.  Plus, the dominatrix passive bonus.  I'll save it for another day.

Edited August 5, 2022 by Ravi-Sama

[DvDivXXX]

51 minutes ago, Ravi-Sama said:

Ginseng is more complicated.  I think it only increases the player's stats by 3x 6% (1.06^3), and not girl's stats.  I had 1 gin equipped in my past SS, that's why I had trouble figuring out the formula.

As far as attack is concerned (unless they stealth changed it since the last time I checked), gins only boost your primary (legacy) class stat by 6% and, through that, the attack that comes from it. It doesn't include the extra stats from your team.

To determine your base attack, with the script, you just check your primary "class" stat this way:

Of course I have 3 cordys equipped right now, so that's +0 to my Know-How "stat" from boosters, since those directly boost attack itself. But next time I have a gin equipped, I'll have a look.

Oh, and to further assist with the maths based on my before/after Headband screenshots, here's what my stats look like with full mono equipped:

Interesting. The Club bonus actually boosts your equipment stats too. Oh well.

Anyway, IIRC, each gin I'd equip with the above setup would give me +6% of 58,237 in extra attack. The tricky part (and particularly interesting for mid-level players) is that each cordy then gives +10% of the whole attack, including that little boost from each gin.

But yeah, without doing the actual maths myself, it doesn't seem that getting +6% of 58k to my base attack of ~110k (so in that case roughly +3% to my actual base attack?) so that my two cordys can give me +10% of a slightly bigger base attack is anywhere near worth the slot where I could have another +10% of my whole attack instead. (Of course gins give other little bonuses all around, but only attack, total power and active skills really matter against a Pantheon Wall).

-----
Edit: And going back to active skills and total power (which I suspect but am not sure are related to switching in 1 or 2 mono items for rainbow ones), there's still a lot that looks indistinguishable from magic to me.

Full mono with strongest current team by total power:

Now, same thing but switching the weakest of the 7, which happens to be Orange, for an even weaker but Blue girl:

Now, switching one more for another Blue girl?

So it seems the first +3% Lifesteal matters a LOT, enough to more than double my odds despite the 3.5k loss in total power. But one more time +3% Lifesteal for 8k less total power completely tanks my odds. ^^

All in all, switching girls and items around, the very best odds I was able to reach so far are these:

That's with exactly one Rainbow item, and one slightly weaker but Blue girl switched in. It's twice better odds than my actual stronger team with full mono, but switching anything more ruins it.

Edited August 5, 2022 by DvDivXXX
updated

[Ravi-Sama]

45 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

But yeah, without doing the actual maths myself, it doesn't seem that getting +6% of 58k to my base attack of ~110k (so in that case roughly +3% to my actual base attack?) so that my two cordys can give me +10% of a slightly bigger base attack is anywhere near worth the slot where I could have another +10% of my whole attack instead. (Of course gins give other little bonuses all around, but only attack, total power and active skills really matter against a Pantheon Wall).

Yeah, it's confusing as hell, I'll try to figure it out later.  I don't need the gin info for the pantheon, it's more related to PvP.  I've been recording my PvP stats (atk, def, ego, and harmony), the boosters, player level, blessings, and team power each day in DIII, for the past 5 weeks.  I'll figure it out eventually, especially after figuring out how cords work.  Now, I can see what the base stats were, when I used 3x cords, and how 3x gins affected it afterwards.  Cords benefitting from gins is weird.  I never expected them to work that way.

The script shows how the base mono stat is calculated, but not base atk in leagues/seasons.

The performance handbook says that the girls' total power is 1/4 of the player's total base atk.  Which is multiplied by the dominatrix passive, the elemental dmg bonus, and then boosters.

That's all I really needed to know.  I'll mess w/ it later. 

FYI, it's wrong about 3x cords being a 30% boost btw, it's actually 33.1%. 

Which makes 3x cords * 1 AME +53%, instead of +49.5%. 

Then, times the +20% double elemental damage boost, is +83% to Atk, instead of the max of 74% stated there.

Quote

Damage/Attack Power

Your Attack Power  is your damage that you will deal to your opponent's Ego during your turn in a performance.
The damage dealt is reduced by the defense stat.

Your Attack Power is mainly determined by the following factors:
The Attack power is your main stat + 1/4 of the sum of all stats of the girls in your battle team (check Other sources for more)

The sum of the stats in your battle team gives you +0.25 Attack Power. 
Attack power formula: Primary stat + ( 0.25 * Team power )
OR the full version: (Primary/Main stat (including club bonus and ginseng booster(s)) + ( 0.25 * Team power) * (1+Dominatrix synergy bonus) * (1+Domination attack bonus) * (1+Cordyceps booster(s) bonus)

You can see the total power of your battle team below their icons before starting a performance.

Other sources:
Dominatrix girls in your battle team gives you +2% Damage each
Dominatrix girls in your harem give you up to 7% damage (maximum value at +100 Dominatrix girls recruited)
Boosters: Which can give a maximum of +30% Damage (Legendary Cordyceps boosters) OR +11025 Damage (Epic Cordyceps boosters)
The Mythic booster All Mastery's Emblem also gives you +15% Damage for 100 performances in Season and League
Some Counter Bonuses can give +10% damage, with a double counter bonus giving +20% damage

The maximum possible Attack Power increase would be +74% (in Season and League)

 

Edited August 5, 2022 by Ravi-Sama

[EpicBacon]

5 hours ago, Ravi-Sama said:

Now, I've gotta figure out how the base atk stat is determined.  I know your main mono stat (charm in my case), gets added to the team girls' mono stat somehow.  Your level, market bought stat points, equipment, boosters, and club bonus also affect it.  Plus, the dominatrix passive bonus.  I'll save it for another day.

If you want me screenshot any numbers to cross-check with yours; just let me know wich ones you need.
I am also not going for 1st in leagues, so I am free to experiment with different boosters aswell.