shopv2 Shop V2 Popup Frequency

[Karxan]

Dear Kinkoid Games, Please Stop Spamming Us with the new Store

We are Penalized & Punished whenever we spam the forums; spamming is a punishable offense.

Hitting us with "STORE POPUP!" each & every time we exit a window or refresh a tab is OVERKILL!  PLEASE STOP!

 

i have resisted the temptation to spam the forums; i cannot promise to not spam the ingame feedback...

It isn't merely annoying, it slows down a game that is already fairly time-consuming.

In conclusion, toxic ad spam is a negative player experience, and there's only so much negative player experience a player will take before they quit a game, never to return.

I hope this constructive critique is informative & helpful, and spares @Tohru - Kinkoid & the forum moderators the wrathful pitchforks & torches of an angry mob.

Edited June 12, 2023 by Karxan

[Ravi-Sama]

Personally, I'd prefer to only have the Shop V2 popup when I actually missed clicking some daily, weekly, or monthly reward that's available, which I overlooked.

That'd mean seeing the popup once per day anyway, in the morning, 8 times per week, and ~35 times per month.

They announced that it'll popup every 4 hrs now, but I still see it anytime I visit the homepage, so it's obviously not fixed yet.

Even if it were "fixed," that'd still be 6 popups per day at most, so ~180 popups per month vs. the ~35 times that you'd actually need to see it.

[Horsting]

It behaves a little inconsistent here. After the shop update, at first, it appeared whenever I entered town. Then it changed to show up muss less often, which could be those 4 hours. But during this weekend there were phases where it again showed much more often, which was quite annoying when I had a repeating 15 minutes timer for finishing champions and needed to first click away the shop nearly every time. Currently it is fine again.

I do not have an issue with KK advertising their in-game revenue system, but there is indeed a threshold after which the advertisement effect does not increase anymore as everyone who is generally open to buy something in the shop knows about all options already or will anyway have a look into offers when certain events start or similar. And as OP mentioned there is another threshold after which it turns into anti-advertisement, deterring away more players and potential customers than gaining new ones/increasing the existing ones' money input.

IMO, there is zero point to show the shop more than twice a day, once after the daily reset to show the new deals (which includes the free deals, covering that point) and once 12-8 hours before the reset (covering time zones which go to sleep and usually wake up too shortly before reset), to tease people buying something to finish/win events/contests before reset/end. Once a day (after reset) may be even closer to the optimum, as those people who are generally open to invest money into the game will more likely also have a look into the shop by themselves. I can name myself as such an example: I do have a quite low limit on how much I want to invest into the game, so I know and buy season pass and silver card, which I find the by far most cost-beneficial invests into the game. And as I have a little something left, I do have a look into new bundles after the reset (and would even do so without the forced popup), and when I would need something to gain an event reward, before it ends (and would do so without the popup).

Another thing is what page of the shop opens. In OP case, the starter offer is shown, which seems reasonable unless it has been obtained already. In my case, the koban packs page is shown, which I find the least attractive and teasing page. I personally would never buy koban packs, but only bundles which contain what is currently most needed and often contain as well kobans for a still overall lower price than the kobans-only packs. Whales may buy koban packs, but I guess they will still buy fitting bundles first. So IMO the following page priority would have a much better teasing effect, showing the next in order if the previous' offers have all been obtained:

1. Starter offer
2. Event bundles (if available)
3. Season pass
4. Special offers
5. Period deals
6. Monthly cards
7. Koban packs

[DvDivXXX]

Sorry to hear some of you guys are still experiencing this issue. It's back to normal on my end. Honestly, the old shop used to pop up way too often and too randomly to my taste. With the recent fix, I actually have the popup less often and it's less intrusive than that. So if that's the intended pace, it was worth getting spammed for a couple of days.

I hope the fix will apply to everyone soon (or whatever prevents it from applying is found and resolved).

PS: To Horsting's list, I'd add one popup of the shop every time I enter the game (at least the first time in between two resets). Seems reasonable and kind of expected to me. Most F2P games I've ever played do that (sometimes bundled with whatever news there has been since my last visit) and it makes sense to me. I kind of expect it, whereas it's of course not okay to get the pop up every time you return to the home page after doing anything.

[Guest Tohru - Kinkoid]

@KarxanPlease send in a ticket if you're experiencing anything different from what's described in the fix from the screenshot kindly provided by @Ravi-Sama🍑

[lainn]

If you'd rather prefer to not see this shop spam altogether, and forever, do one of the following:

1)add this cookie to the page: "disabledPopups=Bundles", and set it's expire date somewhen distant;

2)add this code to your HH++ script, in the end of the file for example:

window.addEventListener("load", function() {
            if(!document.cookie.hasOwnProperty("disabledPopups")) {
                document.cookie = "disabledPopups=Bundles";
                document.cookies.disabledPopups = "Bundles";
            });

 

[Horsting]

1 hour ago, DvDivXXX said:

To Horsting's list, I'd add one popup of the shop every time I enter the game (at least the first time in between two resets).

Jep, the first time between two resets totally makes sense, which is what I meant with "once after the daily reset". Basically when the shop is opened, add a blocker with no timeout (now it has 4 hours timeout) to not show the shop automatically again. At daily reset (and if seen beneficial, additionally 12-8 hours before reset), blockers are removed for all users. So one gets the popup max once (2 times) a day and hence sees all changes/new bundles. And add the blocker as well when users open the shop manually! Regardless what is common in other similar games, I cannot imagine that any more shop popups will have any positive effect on buying behaviour, but rather an overall negative effect.

EDIT:  

3 minutes ago, lainn said:

If you'd rather prefer to not see this shop spam altogether

Of course, but this is not realistic and might indeed reduce in-game purchases. So I'm suggesting a solution which results in or maintains maximum purchases that you can get with such kind of advertisement, while being much less annoying for users and that way also overall beneficial for KK.

Edited June 12, 2023 by Horsting

[lainn]

4 minutes ago, Horsting said:

Of course, but this is not realistic and might indeed reduce in-game purchases. So I'm suggesting a solution which results in or maintains maximum purchases that you can get with such kind of advertisement, while being much less annoying for users and that way also overall beneficial for KK.

I can honestly say I have enjoyed the shop spam since I started playing this game. It is never going to stop. But the mentioned code works for me and will likely work for you too. If you are going to wait for a Kinkoid solution I salute you

[Horsting]

21 minutes ago, lainn said:

If you are going to wait for a Kinkoid solution

People keep saying/writing such. However, I will keep trying with best efforts suggestions until I may or may not get disappointed and join you guys giving up 😄.

[DvDivXXX]

16 hours ago, Horsting said:

Regardless what is common in other similar games, I cannot imagine that any more shop popups will have any positive effect on buying behaviour, but rather an overall negative effect.

Oh, I agree. In most games that do have the shop pop up the first time you log in each day, that's it (except if the shop offers change while you're logged in, typically). You don't see it pop up at random intervals. Most, not all, though. There are F2Ps that are pretty pushy with their real-money offers. Some much more than Kinkoid.

16 hours ago, lainn said:

"disabledPopups=Bundles"

Hmm. I'm not sure there would be a legit angle for Kinkoid to ban this, but I'm sure this will piss off someone with a "vision" that includes the beautiful Seasonal Paywalls, and he's going to look for a reason to make it a breach of ToS if that becomes widespread. I think Tom and Zoo haven't included something like this in their respective versions of the HH++ script to be safe from this.

Right now and especially for people still experiencing the super spammy version we all had the first few days, that makes sense, though.

16 hours ago, Horsting said:

I will keep trying with best efforts suggestions until I may or may not get disappointed and join you guys giving up 😄.

The two aren't mutually exclusive. I've been burned many times before but I keep throwing suggestions at them just in case. I even keep answering the surveys, even though they're basically useless in their current form and ignored even when they show a clear enough consensus that doesn't fit Rosso's "vision". I'm not holding my breath, but in between really greedy additions, we still get good updates more or less regularly.

[lainn]

1 hour ago, DvDivXXX said:

Hmm. I'm not sure there would be a legit angle for Kinkoid to ban this, but I'm sure this will piss off someone with a "vision" that includes the beautiful Seasonal Paywalls, and he's going to look for a reason to make it a breach of ToS if that becomes widespread. I think Tom and Zoo haven't included something like this in their respective versions of the HH++ script to be safe from this.

That is not a "hack". A "hack" would be using ublock to zap the shop with style. That is an official solution provided, if not enabled, by developers for peoples to employ. If they don't appreciate their own means, they will simply disable them.

* by the word "hack" I don't mean "a cheat", but rather a self-made solution.

[Horsting]

My first thought about the disabledPopups cookie was as well that it could be a ban reason. On the other hand, why would the cookie be respected at all if this was the case? If not wanted, it could be simply ignored by the application. However, the current popup frequency (in my case) is not high enough to take the risk without some KK statement that it is okay to set this cookie.

2 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

I've been burned many times before but I keep throwing suggestions at them just in case.

Great to hear 🙂. And indeed of course not everything is bad or worsening. I do actually like the new shop in general (ignoring the still existing minor quirks): It looks more structured and consistent, somehow more like a shop. The only thing I can criticise, aside of the still too high popup frequency, is the fact that the massive increase of available bundles/deals with more value per money compared to koban packs further increases the gap between F2P and those who are buying more than ~1-2 previously available moreless fitting bundles a day.

[Liliat]

il y a 23 minutes, Horsting a dit :

further increases the gap between F2P and those who are buying more than ~1-2 previously available moreless fitting bundles a day.

Not really. Heavy P2P players never bought Kobans pack, and can still obtain everything the game has to offer in one year. The only limits they can't break are Player XP (There is a pretty hard limit on that), and the frequency of girls revival (1/Year for most girls). The new bundles do not change this.

These players can still reach the top of any leaderboard in just a few months. Having more bundles only means they have more options in how they achieve this, but it doesn't really increase the gap. F2P and P2P players have been playing 2 different games for a very long time.

[Horsting]

12 minutes ago, Liliat said:

Having more bundles only means they have more options in how they achieve this, but it doesn't really increase the gap.

As selected bundles give more benefit per money compared to koban packs, as long as ones money input is not unlimited, one can now progress faster than before. However, probably this does not affect F2P players or low-money spenders much: The one or the other difficult opponent more in leagues probably. But maybe not even that (at last in higher/highest leagues), since I personally cannot imagine that it is long-term fun to just buy yourself to the end of the game. Not sure whether (many of) those players do invest the same effort/time into contest and especially PvP strategies to really be a challenge for others. What I saw by times in the earlier leagues was some level 400 opponent with 7 starter girls, being more a gift (easy to defeat, yet much XP) than a challenge.

23 minutes ago, Liliat said:

The only limits they can't break are Player XP

Up to a certain level, bundles with energy and of course buying energy for kobans works for this, and later there are bundles which grant significant amounts of XP: There is a 380.000 XP (+ other stuff) bundle in my shop with 7 days duration which gets renewed every time it expires. And I am sure a similar one appears once you buy it. This is also how the level 400 starter girls opponents can be explained (another explanation does not come to my mind).

[Liliat]

il y a 3 minutes, Horsting a dit :

As selected bundles give more benefit per money compared to koban packs, as long as ones money input is not unlimited, one can now progress faster than before.

No: you reach a point where more resources do not equal more progress.

When you have reached lvl 750 and are drowning in books/gifts, have 6k combativity in store (More than you can spend on many CE/OD/LD/MD), and finished the story, more resources do absolutely nothing for your progression. The only remaining variable is time: you need to wait for girls to be revived.

And the old shop already allowed players to reach this point in the game in just a few months, without buying kobans packs. So, are there more resources now? Yes. Do they make players progress faster? Nope.

Revival time is still the bottleneck (And Ymen, apparently 😛 )

il y a 5 minutes, Horsting a dit :

Up to a certain level, bundles with energy and of course buying energy for kobans works for this, and later there are bundles which grant significant amounts of XP: There is a 380.000 XP (+ other stuff) bundle in my shop with 7 days duration which gets renewed every time it expires.

That's limited to lvl 300; which is what; 15, 20% of the game progression? After this, you can't purchase PXP. Story barely gives anything, League is capped to 300 fights per week, PoV/PoG/Season are on a timer, Daily Missions/Daily Goals are on a timer. You can't buy your way to lvl 500 (yet).

[bolitho76]

You could call the Bonus PoG/PoV path as "buyable" but because it's Koban realted and not real money (Season Bonus Path and there is no XP), f2p player have a chance to buy theese XP too.

With ca. 6000 Koban from Daily Missions and the CxH/PSH promo, ca. 2.000 Koban from league (S3, 16-30 4x500+), ca. 900 from OD/CE event missions, ca 900 Koban from Season, Koban from won Contests and PoPs and free Bundle you can expect easiy 12k Koban for a f2p player in the mid-game. That's enough for PoV and PoG Bonus Path all time - if it's wisely to spend only here is another sheet of paper. But a f2p Player can gain all XP you can gain in Events too.

So fully agree to Liliat.

Edited June 13, 2023 by bolitho76

[Horsting]

1 hour ago, Liliat said:

When you have reached lvl 750 and are drowning in books/gifts, have 6k combativity in store (More than you can spend on many CE/OD/LD/MD), and finished the story, more resources do absolutely nothing for your progression.

Since I am at level 276 with girls currently capped at 550, I am more considering the progress speedup until the point you mention, not so much what you can do after level 500, story finished, all girls (that you have) at level 750, character stats maxed, girls' and char gear all maxed mythics etc, so bear with me 😅.

But right, good 5 star legendary and mythic girls have a time bottleneck. Still, with bundles one can easily get every mythic and legendary girl from every event without strategy. I wasn't able to get any of the 3 mythic girls that appeared since my account exists and only 1 of 2 legendary girls from each of the LDs, because of adventure progress (I didn't want to buy massive energy) and lack of kobans, money and gems + not T1-cleared villains, which would have made the mythic girls unreasonably expensive (to get them, as well as to max them while I have not even seven 5-star legendaries). There were event bundles available with e.g. quite precisely the SPs + firsts you need to get the mythic, but only 200% value (compared to buying koban packs for refills/SP), now there are significantly more packs with cheaper fists, so you can buy the same with less money, but it remains above my budget. But again, this is more mid-game progress, the only thing I can talk about, i.e. all I can say is that you can speed up mid-game progress more with the same money than before the shop update, if you have budget above a certain limit, around above 20$ a day, which is moreless the price of the old shops matching/attractive daily bundles.

2 hours ago, Liliat said:

That's limited to lvl 300

Ah okay, then after that energy is the only thing you can buy for XP progress. But indeed, the XP from energy/adventure is becoming significantly less 😢. In the meantime (I'm world 9 currently) the daily missions + PoV (and less but still: PoG/Seaons) seem to be the main XP driver.

2 hours ago, bolitho76 said:

That's enough for PoV and PoG Bonus Path all time

Jep, I'm currently doing/aiming this. The problem is that then there are not enough kobans left to safely get LD/MD/MR girls. When next PoG starts, I need to start calculating whether or when I can buy (with free kobans) the bonus path when aiming for the MR girl, and in case which one I should aim for in my current state when I must choose. Also tomorrow the DP event starts, which I don't know yet, and have not really a clue whether/how much kobans it could cost to get all rewards, and whether this is even worth it. And next world, AFAIK, the last PoP is added, which I want to max out ASAP.

 

Back to the actual topic: The game throws me again into the shop nearly whenever I enter town. It is pretty random here, it works fine for a day (the 4 hours blocker), then again it starts spamming much more often, then suddenly it stops again. Same browser, same laptop, I have no idea how this is even possible if not KK is tinkering something back and forth server-side. I will try to find a way to replicate it in the evening and check cookie content, browser storage etc, if I find cause or explanation.

[Horsting]

On 6/13/2023 at 3:54 PM, Liliat said:

That's limited to lvl 300; which is what; 15, 20% of the game progression? After this, you can't purchase PXP.

For completeness an update on this: I am level 310 now and there is a new reoccurring 448k PXP bundle. I am not 100% sure, but it might have appeared when I reached level 300. I had two similar bundles concurrently, the one with 380k mentioned previously, and this new one, so could have bought more than 800k PXP. The old bundle disappeared after expiry, so I guess the new one is meant as replacement, either for level >300 or in general. It was definitely there before the player level cap got raised, probably was part of the shop update or earlier. So it is now possible to buy yourself to above level 300, quite significantly if you time it well. I also challenged a player in last season which seemed to have done exactly this: close to level 400 but younger and much weaker than me.