forum workshop Champion Draft 101

[Horsting]

12 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

That, and also I only have 18 re-rolls left, the first row is basically as strong as it can get, and the odds of improving the second row are basically nil.

18 re-rolls is what I currently get in total for a fresh champ, so I must believe that there is a chance for getting better 5 slots with this 😅. But true, as only eccentric girls with matching pose can really do better, and 5 of them are pinned already, the chances to get another 2+ on a re-roll are pretty low. In my case, as any strong charm girl is about as valuable as a strong matching pose, the chances to get good 5 new girls are much higher.

Out of interest, how many hits/until which girl does a challenge last in your case?

[DvDivXXX]

I figured there would be a big difference in that regard too. I start a fresh champ draft with 137 re-rolls, so when we were down to 18 left, that was already a longer and deeper drafting process than I usually do. We ran bad for a long while, basically, mostly steps that I fast-forwarded over and I didn't post here. I wanted to keep things interesting so I only posted re-rolls where there was more than "nothing to see, here, just re-roll again" to discuss. ^^

Damn you have 18 free drafts total? So your eligible harem for champ drafts is 180-189 girls total. That's a massive difference indeed. My eligible pool includes 1374 girls, so re-rolling 5 girls 18 times has a very small chance of improving the team compared to you.

[DvDivXXX]

1 hour ago, Horsting said:

Out of interest, how many hits/until which girl does a challenge last in your case?

It can vary a lot. I've kept an eye on my performances from this draft (even watched a few fights without skipping) and the team typically lasts between 9 and 15 rounds in this case. I also paid attention to the crits and special hits (with our previous discussions in mind) and although I have 40% and Chayotte has 10%, his Blet critted the hell out of my girls very regularly (each crit hits me for 102k instead of ~42k for a normal hit). My girls had special hits fairly often too, but honestly nowhere near 4 times more often than the opponent. It still made a fairly big difference when it happened, but overall my score (and the amount of Ymens) doesn't vary all that much from a fight that lasts longer. In this case, it ranged from 500k to 800k in terms of Ymens (I didn't pay too much attention to the piggy banks, sorry).

[Horsting]

27 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

each crit hits me for 102k instead of ~42k for a normal hit

You did not accidentally count her matching pose on position 2/6 as a crit? At least doubled AP should end around 102k damage as well.

Ah lol, Blet is HK and hence cannot "crit", but heals instead. The 102k damage was as of her matching pose on 2/6. So what counts is how often she healed Chayotte's ego 😉.

The amount of rounds at least means that positions 6-10 do count as well, so the odds about getting premium girls with a matching pose there with a re-roll of not, after having 5 good ones pinned to 1-5 already. However, for 100k Ymen more or less it does not matter.

Good to know that it's again Blet who fights fucks for/with him. I was already wondering about that after having all 5 girls obtained already. Still waiting for the 24h sleep to finish to see that.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Horsting

[DvDivXXX]

Once you've collected all the girls a given CC had to offer (and you're one the lucky ones enjoying the elite consolation prize of one lousy legendary affection item per run ^^), your opponent reverts back to the very first girl that was placed on that CC, until a new one shows up.

So right now, since I have all the available CC girls at this time, I'm always fighting Kumiko for Chad runs, Bianca for Ezekiel runs, and Blet for Chayotte runs.

Otherwise, each individual player is fighting whichever girl they happen to be in the process of collecting on the associated CC. So if you already have Blet, you're fighting Demi right now; if you already have Demi as well, you're facing Stellaluna instead, and so on.

EDIT: @Horsting

1. The run is over now, so I can't check more things, sorry.
    
2. Would you be up for sharing one of your own drafts with us? I'd be very interested in getting a feel for what the champion experience is like for players at your stage of the game these days, and you taking us through your process.

Edited July 28, 2023 by DvDivXXX
Next? =)

[bolitho76]

Some examples how long a battle last with leveld Champs. Sure, a lot depends on how often the Champgirl has matching poses, but to get a generall impression it's helpfull:

Against Visor 3 rounds.

5 rounds

13 rounds

8 rounds

 

[Horsting]

1 hour ago, DvDivXXX said:

and you're one the lucky ones enjoying the elite consolation prize of one lousy legendary affection item per run ^^

Yeah, I recognised these awesome new rewards. So after getting all those bloody L5* girls which are now sitting on my pocket, finally a chance for some sweet chocolate or panties to satisfy my secret desires 😄.

1 hour ago, DvDivXXX said:

Would you be up for sharing one of your own drafts with us? I'd be very interested in getting a feel for what the champion experience is like for players at your stage of the game these days, and you taking us through your process.

Will do so once 24h resting is over.

EDIT: @bolitho76

Thanks, boah this Visor with 4 matching poses is pretty nasty. He is the strongest champ already, but that particular iteration 😮, also on my level I would not survive much longer.

Interesting that even Romero in 2nd stage is that strong.

Blet with 3 matching poses is also not exactly a lucky draw. With 0 or 1 matching poses, you should survive two evolutions (my newly invented word for all 10 girls hit once) as well then?

Edited July 28, 2023 by Horsting

[bolitho76]

12 minutes ago, Horsting said:

With 0 or 1 matching poses, you should survive two evolutions (my newly invented word for all 10 girls hit once) as well then?

Hard to say... Since a very long time I doesn't clicked the skip button immediatly after starting the fight today so 🤷‍♂️

[Horsting]

Understandable. For CC I still do it once after finishing the draft, to see whether it works out moreless the way I expected, and since we hit em for 2 days or more (if not during CbC or LC day 3).

[Ravi-Sama]

My Champion/CC fighting method, at my current stage in HH (lvl 525 w/ 1099 girls), is:

1. Aim to fill the first row (5 girls) w/ 100k+ girls matching poses.  If they're less than 100k, skip them.  The fewer girls that are locked in, the more girls that appear upon rerolling.  The greater the odds of finding a superb girl.
2. Check how many rounds they'll last, but if it's less than 5, I've already prepared for it, so can skip this step.
3. Aim to get slots 6-8 filled, via rerolls.  As better girls appear, continually swapping them out w/ the first row.
4. If I get slots 1-7 filled, w/ two matching 80-100k girls in the 2nd row, then I'm content to fight the champion.
5. Sometimes if I get 8 girls to match, I'll settle on that even if the 2nd row isn't sequential order.
6. I might take note of how much dmg or % was done to a Champion, to estimate how many tickets would defeat him, or to reach a goal of 10-20% dmg if it's a Club Champion.  Since, that's a limit I imposed upon my club (20%), so that players don't hog it, if there's a new girl w/o a contest.  If there's a CbC, we can revive it sooner.

My strategy is more relaxed in CxH/PSH where I'm just level 357/348, w/ 287/235 girls (20/23 drafts):

1. Fill the first row (5 girls) w/ matching poses, any girls, their power doesn't matter, but 90/60k+ is ideal.
2. Keep rerolling until I get 7-8 matching girls.  Whether they're in order or not doesn't matter as much, since the champions are currently easier, and I'll likely do at least 10 rounds.
3. I don't check how much dmg or rounds I've done.  It's more carefree.  I just enjoy seeing the ymens gained, taking note of how many tickets remain, and if there's a CbC day 3, LC day 3, or PoA around the corner, I'll save at least 100 tickets for later.

This workshop was an interesting read.  I didn't participate, cuz was tired last night, but nice to see that champion fighting is still relevant, and there might be new things to learn, even this late/early into the game(s).

[Horsting]

52 minutes ago, Ravi-Sama said:

My strategy is more relaxed in CxH/PSH where I'm just level 357/348, w/ 287/235 girls (20/23 drafts):

Did you consider the strategy I explained above on CxH/PSH? I am still lower level than you there, but depending on the champion levels, it may still apply, i.e. lead to better results than only matching pose (if the poses are not CH class anyway): Basically aiming for up to 5 (strong) CH girls between those with matching pose, at least if the champ does not match too many poses himself, i.e. if the CH defence bonus cast reduces damage significantly close to or to zero.

Would be nice to have someone else's feedback/experience about this, especially a veteran one's, just in case we might want to write some champions guide, and differentiate between player/champion level/damage for best strategy.

[Ravi-Sama]

11 minutes ago, Horsting said:

Did you consider the strategy I explained above on CxH/PSH? I am still lower level than you there, but depending on the champion levels, it may still apply, i.e. lead to better results than only matching pose (if the poses are not CH class anyway): Basically aiming for up to 5 (strong) CH girls between those with matching pose, at least if the champ does not match too many poses himself, i.e. if the CH defence bonus cast reduces damage significantly close to or to zero.

Would be nice to have someone else's feedback/experience about this, especially a veteran one's, just in case we might want to write some champions guide, and differentiate between player/champion level/damage for best strategy.

I read it.  Haven't tried it yet.  I value KH over CH, since healing to do more hits makes sense to me, so alternating CH girls in, when I can match poses instead, feels counter-intuitive.  I'll try it later, after these champions are defeated, and get back to you.

[Horsting]

41 minutes ago, Ravi-Sama said:

I value KH over CH, since healing to do more hits makes sense to me

KH healing is also usually slightly higher than CH defence bonus, so for a single trigger, the effect is better. But one CH cast triggers the bonus always two times, i.e. an additional time on the next girl/hit. So it is roughly about 1.5 times as effective in terms of net damage reduction, compared to KH. The effect also becomes stronger when you have strong girls, as KH is always the same healing value, which depends on your harmony or so (I never really checked what it is based on), while the CH defence bonus depends on the individual girl stats (also not sure which stat(s) exactly).

The x2 effect however is eliminated if there are two CH girls one after another and both do the cast, since they do not stack if both girls cast it. So the second cast swallows the second half of the first cast. Hence the strategy to have every second girl CH, to get full benefit of the bonus.

Only against very weak champs, e.g. Romero and Whaty at low level and stages, which do SO little damage that KH heals about double that damage or more, KH becomes better. In this case, of course a defence bonus is mostly wasted, as it cannot be better than 2 times the damage of the champ. But this phase is already over for me: Romero and Whaty became so strong that this does not apply anymore.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Horsting

[EpicBacon]

I am Kh, but Charm seems to do more for me then healing, as I can sometimes block the entire attack; instead of healing part of the damage taken.
The best is if you can get a Charm girl followed by a know how one, you have a chance to block the entire attack, followed by healing.

[Horsting]

3 minutes ago, EpicBacon said:

I can sometimes block the entire attack; instead of healing part of the damage taken.

It depends on player and girl stats, but in my case the healing value is always a little higher than the defence bonus, especially when a weak girl is triggering the defence bonus. But this lower value times 2 is still overall higher than KH healing.

Jep, CH-KH-CH-KH-... is the dream combination, at least if the matching poses are CH or KH as well (else e.g. CH-HK-CH-HK-... can be better). Of course it does not happen often, but while watching a bunch of Chayotte performances for statistical reasons, there were streaks of several rounds zero damage but instead healing, as all CH girls triggered their bonus, eliminating all damage for themselves as well as for the next KH girl, and the KH girl themselves then did their healing. Some of these fights lasted more than 50 round (if he did not have any matching pose), with several percent overall damage to the champ. But the same way such cast streaks can happen, such without any cast for several rounds happen as well, which were usually the reason why I was defeated. The average net damage minus healing was actually quite close to zero, so if every second CH and every second KH girl had consequently casted their effect, it may have lasted forever. But if the champ damage is too high, because of his level or too many matching poses, the whole tactic breaks apart.

[OmerB]

Adding a bit to it:

I'm trying to have at least 6 girls with matching poses on my teams against champions (if I want to win as quickly as I can of course, not when I 'm trying to postpone the end of the fights). On weaker champions, I may sometimes get 6-8 poses, or even more (on CxH and PSH, I have champions with which I'm able to do 3 complete circles, i.e. 30 poses).

Yes, the matching poses are the important factor. The number of stars of my girls? not so much. A 3 stars girl on level 250 has enough power to be considered a part of my team, if she has a matching pose.

I'm trying to get at least 6-7 girls with matching poses, especially when the opposing champion offers 4-5 different poses. When he's offering only 3 poses or less, I'm willing to be satisfied with 6 girls with matching poses (I don't remember how many free drafts I have, somewhere around 80 I suppose).

With girls with unmatching poses and about the same power, my prefereances for class goes like this: Knowhow (healing), Hardcore, Charm.

@HorstingAlternating CH girls is the worst option. It's what I do when I'm trying to make the least damage possible. CH girls works best when they're cluttered together, so if you're having some on your team, put them next to each other. If you'll get the charm affect twice, it will quadruple.

Edited July 28, 2023 by OmerB

[EpicBacon]

1 hour ago, OmerB said:

I'm trying to get at least 6-7 girls with matching poses, especially when the opposing champion offers 4-5 different poses. When he's offering only 3 poses or less, I'm willing to be satisfied with 6 girls with matching poses (I don't remember how many free drafts I have, somewhere around 80 I suppose).

After I have the first row done, I do as Ravi-Sama does, I do a testrun, see how many battles I get thru.
If i fail in the first 5, I just reroll over and over till I am out of rolls, improving any of the first row as I go.

If I make it past the first row, I usually try to aim for 3 poses initially, depending on how many rolls I have left, even If i find 3 matching, but weak girls, I reroll. If I start to get low on rolls, I adjust; and will start to look for 2 matches.

Once I have 3 matches, or 2 matches and some strong charm girls in there, I usually call it, if I figure that this might be the best I will get, and its better to have a partial second row, instead of just yolo, and end up with 5 level 1 hc girls.

[EpicBacon]

1 hour ago, OmerB said:

@HorstingAlternating CH girls is the worst option. It's what I do when I'm tring to make the least damage possible. CH girls works best when they're cluttered together, so if you're having some on your team, put them next to each other. If you'll get the charm affect twice, it will quadruple.

When you mention it, I do seem to recall something about that, the quad only works for one more battle tho?
If you allready block all the damage with 1 charm; then 2 is just wasted, right?

Edit - Didnt Charm get changed to work for the next two battles?
          So when you quad it, is it quad for that battle only, and is it normal on the 2nd fight?
          or does it reset after the quadding? meaning you do not get the 2nd round of defence from
          the 2nd charm?

I feel that I knew this stuff at some point, but when you don't pay attention, the knowledge slips away

Edited July 28, 2023 by EpicBacon

[OmerB]

6 minutes ago, EpicBacon said:

When you mention it, I do seem to recall something about that, the quad only works for one more battle tho?
If you allready block all the damage with 1 charm; then 2 is just wasted, right?

As far as I understand it, if you have a full charm team, and you are getting the charm affect for each girl, you'll get x2 the defence bonus for each one (after the first one of course).

The x2 defence bonus is only for one turn, for the 2nd consecutive charm affect, but if you are getting the charm affect for a 3rd and 4th girl... It can go on forever (until the fight ends).

Edited July 28, 2023 by OmerB

[Horsting]

1 hour ago, OmerB said:

Alternating CH girls is the worst option. It's what I do when I'm tring to make the least damage possible. CH girls works best when they're cluttered together, so if you're having some on your team, put them next to each other. If you'll get the charm affect twice, it will quadruple.

I did never see the effect stacking up, will take a look at it the next challenges. However, as EpicBeacon said, this only is a benefit if the damage of the champ is that high as well, else it is a waste. And most importantly: If the damage of the champ is really that high, then KH and CH are actually a bad choice, since without the double CH stack luck, the damage reduction is simple too insignificant, in which case prioritising only matching poses (at best with HK damage bonus) on the first few girls is probably the best strategy. You will anyway only survive for a few rounds, and neither CH nor KH can change much about this, aside of the 1 of 1000 cases where you might get a repeating quadruple CH defence stack to survive some rounds longer.

[OmerB]

7 minutes ago, Horsting said:

I did never see the effect stacking up, will take a look at it the next challenges. However, as EpicBeacon said, this only is a benefit if the damage of the champ is that high as well, else it is a waste. And most importantly: If the damage of the champ is really that high, then KH and CH are actually a bad choice, since without the double CH stack luck, the damage reduction is simple too insignificant, in which case prioritising only matching poses (at best with HK damage bonus) on the first few girls is probably the best strategy. You will anyway only survive for a few rounds, and neither CH nor KH can change much about this, aside of the 1 of 1000 cases where you might get a repeating quadruple CH defence stack to survive some rounds longer.

Yes, as I said, matching poses is the best method of action. After that, I'm ordering my "unmatching" girls by power, and only then by class (KH, HC and then CH), trying to group the CH together.

This is when I'm trying to win against the champion in the quickest way.

Edited July 28, 2023 by OmerB

[EpicBacon]

45 minutes ago, Horsting said:

I did never see the effect stacking up

I just did some tests against one of the champions, Matsuda to be exact.
I did not find any quad bonuses at all, and the defence only seemed to last for the same battle.
Checked out the damage recieved too, and it coresponds with the extra defence.
Again no trace of defence carrying over or doubling

Edited July 28, 2023 by EpicBacon
More data

[DvDivXXX]

The "test run" you guys use after assembling a decent first row is no longer required in my case. I already know what the result will consistently be for each class.

1. HardCore (HC): nope, the second row will NOT see play. Focus on the first 3 to 5 girls ONLY.
    
2. Not HC [whether it's KnowHow (KH) or Charm (CH) doesn't really matter]: yes, if my first row is decent, then the second row will have a turn. Focus on the first row but also try to get some oomph in the second row (preferably the first two spots).
    
3. Mixed (Stage 5 of a regular champ): Depends how many HC poses there are. Unless it's a majority, it's usually similar to facing KH or CH for me.

But I understand this is an endgame thing. Makes perfect sense to try things out when you're in the early or even mid game. (Not sure Ravi should still bother with the test run on HH by now, honestly, but since he still does on the other two HH-like games he plays, I get keeping the same routine is understandable).

Edited July 28, 2023 by DvDivXXX
updated

[Horsting]

30 minutes ago, OmerB said:

Yes, as I said, matching poses is the best method of action. After that, I'm ordering my "unmatching" girls by power, and only then by class (KH, HC and then CH), trying to group the CH together.

Thanks for clarifying. Indeed then it makes sense. But actually I would order classes HC > CH > KH then, as neither CH nor KH have a high chance to reduce/heal sufficient damage to survive one round longer, but HC at least can increase your damage a little. And CH overall still reduces the damage more than KH heals, or does this change? In my case, the single (!) CH defence bonus is almost always higher than KH healing. It only does not always apply like that on weak champs, which do less damage than the defence bonus gives (i.e. zero damage). But on stronger champs, it is usually about +45k defence vs 35k healing in my case, so CH is simply better if the champ does more than 35k damage, and this already better defence bonus applies twice.

[OmerB]

17 minutes ago, Horsting said:

Thanks for clarifying. Indeed then it makes sense. But actually I would order classes HC > CH > KH then, as neither CH nor KH have a high chance to reduce/heal sufficient damage to survive one round longer, but HC at least can increase your damage a little. And CH overall still reduces the damage more than KH heals, or does this change? In my case, the single (!) CH defence bonus is almost always higher than KH healing. It only does not always apply like that on weak champs, which do less damage than the defence bonus gives (i.e. zero damage). But on stronger champs, it is usually about +45k defence vs 35k healing in my case, so CH is simply better if the champ does more than 35k damage, and this already better defence bonus applies twice.

I think that it has changed for me, regarding my progression in the game and the power of the champion. IIRC, a year ago I preferred CH girls (and HC) over KH against champions. But now my girls are strong enough (and also the champions), and I'm seeing better value for KH girls.

@EpicBacon How do you get these numbers?
I don't see the exact numbers during the fight, I'm just seeing a message that I got a bonus for defence for that girl.

Edited July 28, 2023 by OmerB