Horsting Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 Ah right, it is even described like this on the info page. Then the girls' harmony, respectively the ratio between attacker and defender harmony, likely has an effect on the crit chance only, but I see no way to validate this without a massive amount of data. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator DvDivXXX Posted January 13 Moderator Share Posted January 13 That, and honestly buffing girl harmony (or even crit chance directly) seems so futile given the duration of a run, the RNG nature of crits, and how much better and more reliable sheer damage buffs are... Basically the entire groups of Harmony, Crit Chance and Crit Damage relics are at the bottom of the ones that actually do something, alongside the "Below 50% HP" ones. They're not actively detrimental, but they're unlikely to have any significant impact. So when it's a choice between say, buffing the corpse of a former team member, buffing a color I don't even have in my squad, or "+16% Harmony to the mid line", I'll pick the latter, because it's better than nothing. But if we had a an option to Skip and not pick any of the relics offered (and get extra coins instead, for instance), as is fairly common in a lot of roguelites, I'd almost certainly rather pick that instead of a relic that hardly does anything useful. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicBacon Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 (edited) 6 hours ago, Horsting said: ajax.json 565.26 kB · 0 downloads Is this the log for the entire laby? For someone who has never looked at code before this is... interesting. I could find the your example where the execute takes place, but if you hadnt provided a linenumber, I would probably never been able to find it myself. Interesting data nevertheless Edit: Nevermind, you clearly state in the opening statement that this is against the final boss. Edit2: Turns out using tools makes it a lot easier to break down, Now I can easily check specific rounds Edited January 14 by EpicBacon I can't read 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicBacon Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 5 hours ago, Tom208 said: It's the player harmony that has an effect on speed, not girl harmony. Speed = 0.2 x KH girl stat + player harmony (rounded up) I see they have changed the description in the laby page, now it says : while it used to say: This does make it more clear, but for me it was the "Speed is increased" wording that made it look to me that harmony relics in the labyrinth would give speed, and thus be very valuable, because going first in a battle is a monumental advantage 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jelom Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 The pic is from CxH but it is relevant to the labyrinth When a girl appear that need less than 20 shards the price for the remaining shards is reduced proportionally, in this case 5 shards for 3600 coins. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsting Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 2 hours ago, EpicBacon said: Turns out using tools makes it a lot easier to break down, Now I can easily check specific rounds Hehe indeed, it is a huge amount of data. I use notepad++ for almost all (text) file types. It colors/highlights the syntax, allows to collapse objects etc. But your JSON viewer looks very usable as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicBacon Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) 2 hours ago, Horsting said: Hehe indeed, it is a huge amount of data. I use notepad++ for almost all (text) file types. It colors/highlights the syntax, allows to collapse objects etc. But your JSON viewer looks very usable as well. Notepad++ you say... funny that... Edit: I use it too, just installed a JSON data viewer plugin, found that a lot easier to navigate around Edited January 14 by EpicBacon I like edits 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicBacon Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) @Horsting I just got Taria the champion to do 2 sepearate double attacks in the 2nd bossfight. I am not 100% sure how to read the data, but I'll give it a go. (i'll provide the json, appreciate if you could check the data aswell) Taria is id: 986125 and she started her round with 21 mana, and she improved to 61, that is +40 Taria's damage is listed as 75.510. the defending girl 445743639 started this round with 412.993 ego, and she is left with 261.973 ego. It means she lost 151.020 ego total. Divided by two comes to 75.510. It seems pretty clear here to me that Taria did both attacks. Edit: Nevermind, she gets the next combat round too. So she gets round 9 and 10. But the defending girl's ego stays the same as it did in the first attack. so it seems the full damage and mana happens there. This also made it a lot easier to find her 2nd double attack; Round 34 and 35 Edit2: Checked the numbers on the 2nd double attack, the numbers check out; girl 550842002 starts the round with 240.912 ego, is hit by 2 attacks, first a crit of 150.004 then a normal for 75.002, this totals 225.006; leaving her with 15.906, the same number show as remaining ego in both combat rounds in the data. The reason Tarias mana is set to 0 after the 2nd attack is because she did use her manaskill against another girl after her 1st attack, but before doing the 2nd one. boss2.json Edited January 14 by EpicBacon Additional information 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicBacon Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Productive day in the labyrinth today. When able to see the exact numbers its a lot more convenient. Thanks for @Horsting for making the post about the JSON/Dev tool thing, without that post and explanation I would have no idea how to even look at the data. Also a big thanks to @bohammettuz for coming up with the idea to use the response in the ajax in the first place. This is Sake being hit with burnout skill from a legendary girl, she takes 61.046 damage, she is left with 287.777 ego of her total of 348.823 ego. This makes Burnout (red skill) do 17.5% damage, double what is stated in the tooltip. Stun I think is is the only skill that is not guaranteed to cast on full mana, I can't find anything referencing chance to cast skill. Speaking of stun, today was a terrible day to be a yellow skill girl in the labyrinth. I am running one girl; 28 chances to stun, 3 taken. thats a whopping 10.71% Not great. In fact me and Opponent VR Neono in the floor 3 bossfight had a competition on who could fail most stuns in a row. VR Neono failed 3 or 4 before I took her down, and I never got the stun off in the end, Failed 7! times in a row. That bossfight lasted 71 turns, with several heals on both sides. I somehow managed to scrape thru in the end, but damn that one was painful. If you guys want to run stun, get a better dice then the one I have 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsting Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Quite strange that, when double attacks trigger, all the damage is done and mana received on the 1st attack, if it is even possible for the girl to cast her spell between both attacks. So it is possible that a mana spell is casted after the first attack, while actually she got the required mana only with the 2nd attack? 😄 However, it is more a cosmetic issue. 10 hours ago, EpicBacon said: This makes Burnout (red skill) do 17.5% damage, double what is stated in the tooltip. I guess it has to do something with the as well doubled regular damage (1 AP = 2 damage). My guess is that when developing and testing the Laby, they found fights to last too long. Instead of reasonably adjust the formulas, so that stats give half the AP and defence, they just added a x2 to the final damage. The damage shown in skill tooltips refers to the original x1 damage, and they forgot to adjust it when switching to x2. Pretty hasty unclean and obviously error-prone done. However, a smaller issue compared to the major stats/role and relic bugs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator DvDivXXX Posted January 14 Moderator Share Posted January 14 I'm impressed and kind of fascinated by all this Sci-Fi technology and how much you guys manage to get out of it. Appreciate the dedication as always! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicBacon Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 hour ago, Horsting said: Quite strange that, when double attacks trigger, all the damage is done and mana received on the 1st attack, if it is even possible for the girl to cast her spell between both attacks. So it is possible that a mana spell is casted after the first attack, while actually she got the required mana only with the 2nd attack? 😄 However, it is more a cosmetic issue. I guess it has to do something with the as well doubled regular damage (1 AP = 2 damage). My guess is that when developing and testing the Laby, they found fights to last too long. Instead of reasonably adjust the formulas, so that stats give half the AP and defence, they just added a x2 to the final damage. The damage shown in skill tooltips refers to the original x1 damage, and they forgot to adjust it when switching to x2. Pretty hasty unclean and obviously error-prone done. However, a smaller issue compared to the major stats/role and relic bugs. agreed, based on all the testing that everyone have done on "double attack" It seems that it actually does work as intended, it just happens that it all comes in the first attack. And for burnout, this damage is a lot more reasonable, a mythic girl can take off 60% hp to 2 backline girls. Not that it will help too much, as their backline will still attack you, and if you have no other way to do damage to them, then its somewhat of a waste, as a girl at 40% hp does the same damage as one at 100%. And it could be that the damage was always supposed to like this, but the one who wrote the tooltip got the numbers wrong. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicBacon Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) 59 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said: I'm impressed and kind of fascinated by all this Sci-Fi technology and how much you guys manage to get out of it. Appreciate the dedication as always! I like stuff like this, gathering and looking at data, so once I spent a bit of time with Horstings spreadsheet and looked at his examples, It was easy enough to find the data myself. What I am not good at is the math, once it becomes a bit more complicated mathy stuff that I can't easily punch into a calculator or a spreadsheet, I start running into problems. Sometimes I look at the math Horsting is presenting, I punch in the numbers, and they are correct, I just don't understand why they are correct Many people could have used the tools and found out/confirmed "double attack", It just happened that I got relic Rng, and then also lucking out twice, by getting it to trigger twice in one battle, with the second one containing a critical hit too, just so we could look at all the numbers at once. Edited January 14 by EpicBacon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicBacon Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 On 1/13/2024 at 10:46 PM, DvDivXXX said: That, and honestly buffing girl harmony (or even crit chance directly) seems so futile given the duration of a run, the RNG nature of crits, and how much better and more reliable sheer damage buffs are... Basically the entire groups of Harmony, Crit Chance and Crit Damage relics are at the bottom of the ones that actually do something, alongside the "Below 50% HP" ones. They're not actively detrimental, but they're unlikely to have any significant impact. So when it's a choice between say, buffing the corpse of a former team member, buffing a color I don't even have in my squad, or "+16% Harmony to the mid line", I'll pick the latter, because it's better than nothing. But if we had a an option to Skip and not pick any of the relics offered (and get extra coins instead, for instance), as is fairly common in a lot of roguelites, I'd almost certainly rather pick that instead of a relic that hardly does anything useful. Well, the problem if they make the skip function give coins is that if skipping gives too much coins then the next "meta" might be to go full skip mode, and just grab coins. One could probably do that in the easy mode of the laby if you have enough girls with skills. Most rougelites can do this because they are mainly single player or if its multiplayer its not something that will persist outside of the run. Lets say that skipping all the relics gave you another 1.000 coins, that about 1/3 more coins then a normal run gives. You can also get more coins if you have cards. (5, 10, 15 and 20%) and that could give a massive advantage, as you can put those coins into more bulbs or girl shards. So I think whatever the skip does would have to be something inside the current run only, like on more choice next battle? or chance of higher quality relics? But yes, a skip function would be nice, especially if you get a selection of really bad relics, I've yet had a run with 3 terrible options, the closest I think was 2 "pretective bubbles" and common defence to all girls. Another time I got 2 relics for specific girls, both tired, and I think the last one was +harmony. Imagine if you get the dreaded 3x "protective bubble" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hihi1237823 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 (edited) Have anyone bought this card? Is it activate once you bought or you can keep it and then use it when needed? Does it also give 60 koban per day? Edited January 15 by hihi1237823 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXDongXX Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 i bought a gold card once to claim rewards fron PoA i had forgotten to claim. Worked perfectly for me. The card activates right when you buy it and gives all the rewards it should give 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdnoria Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 (edited) Strange I remember reading something which said the the past month rewards were not claimed using this method. This person made a support ticket and the answer was that for it to work, the card should have been active before the end of PoA (or seasons, I don't remember what was the use case). Edited January 15 by mdnoria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicBacon Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 5 minutes ago, XXDongXX said: i bought a gold card once to claim rewards fron PoA i had forgotten to claim. Worked perfectly for me. The card activates right when you buy it and gives all the rewards it should give ah, so you should not buy it 12:59 as you would basically loose a day then? but rather after the daily reset? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator DvDivXXX Posted January 15 Moderator Share Posted January 15 2 hours ago, EpicBacon said: if skipping gives too much coins then the next "meta" might be to go full skip mode, and just grab coins. One could probably do that in the easy mode True, for the current Super Easy Mode we have. Probably (hopefully) not so much once they fix the major bugs and revert the patch that weakens the opponents and we go back to just the Easy Mode instead, along with Medium/Normal and Hard. Also, I was thinking more like 10 coins per skip, not something that would amount to a huge gain at the end of the run. And only once the feature returns to a state in which skipping all relics would make a run very difficult or even nearly impossible to complete for most players, of course. But it could also be just about anything else (that's not garbage: no more Movie Frames, please! ^^). One extra Fist or a bit of XP, or a GPx10 orb or whatever. The important thing is that sometimes I'd legit prefer not to pick any of the three relics offered to me, and it's a classic roguelite option to include. 15 minutes ago, XXDongXX said: i bought a gold card once to claim rewards fron PoA i had forgotten to claim. Worked perfectly for me. The card activates right when you buy it and gives all the rewards it should give Good to know, thanks! 9 minutes ago, mdnoria said: Strange I remember reading somebody which said the the past month rewards were not claimed using this method. This person made a support ticket and the answer was that for it to work, the card should have been active before the end of PoA. I remember it too (I even think it was in this thread). I didn't say anything at the time, but the answer the player mentioned Support giving didn't make sense to me. And it also seemed to contradict how this perk works in monthly cards in general. The entire point of this perk is to give an incentive for players who forgot to claim rewards to buy a monthly card to get them after the fact. It's even clearly phrased that way in the description in the real-money Shop in game. On top of that, I know the 3-day free trials they give away regularly to select players also work the same way if this happens to coincide with an event expiring. So it seemed really hard to believe that they don't intend the exact same thing to work the same way if we buy it from the Laby Shop for a fair bit of in-game currency instead of getting it for free when they're trying to promote the monthly cards... I'm not saying the player lied, to be clear. I think it's more of a case where Support didn't really have a correct answer to give or enough time to ask before answering the ticket, and/or the issue wasn't understood correctly by devs and Support staff was told to give this bogus answer inadvertently. Some kind of error, in any case. So I'm not too surprised to have confirmation that it now works as expected (or that maybe there's a bug that only affects some players and not others, hopefully the former rather than the latter, though). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXDongXX Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 can't tell u when to buy it exactly and probadly kk can't tell u this too 🤣. Worked for me but i'm not giving any garanty that it will allways do the trick. I know it was shortly after reset as i bought it, because i missed to grab these rewards by minutes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamRei Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Ok, all this is way to complicated for a game that I play on the side just for fun. Untill now, might be because of Nutaku, I had tanks and Damage Dealer, and I could play around that, not much more needed. Now there is a Mage, what does the mage do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsting Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 The mage is the tank, the tank is no good tank. For more info, scroll this topic to find the massive amount of bugs around the Laby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamRei Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 1 hour ago, Horsting said: The mage is the tank, the tank is no good tank. For more info, scroll this topic to find the massive amount of bugs around the Laby. ok, that sounds like pretty bad game design, and I did read a few things here, so I try, but this is quite time consuming and honestly a little complicated. As long as easy is the only thing available it will work out, I just try to keep up with this for the higher difficultys in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bohammettuz Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Something seems to have changed a little in the labyrinth with todays patch. The ordering of girls in the team selection screen is a little different which got me a different default team when I went to do a daily goal task to defeat 1 labyrinth opponent. I guess there's maybe a slight difference in the overall power calculation, but I don't have saved data from before to do any detailed investigations. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valiant Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 I am playing this game in German. In some grey colored relicts the descriptions have been written in French. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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