Leagues balance discussion

[Noacc]

Greetings, everyone!

 

As you’ve read the news ingame we are making some improvements to the Leagues.

We would like to hear from you if you have any ideas, feedback and advice and regarding the upcoming balance changes.

A quick reminder of the improvements we are doing so far.

 

The number of players in Brackets.

1. The minimum number of players is changed from 100 to 120

 

Challenges and Recharges:

2. The recharge time is changed from 60 minutes to 30 minutes per 1 challenge

(Dev. commentary: This will save time and will make the game better)

3. Amount of charges is up from 5 to 10

4. The price per minute for the recharge changes from 0.36 to 0.48 (0.06 to 0.08 in Nutaku Kobans)

 

Change in Rewards:

5. Experience gained per battle is lowered by 50%

(Dev. commentary: This is a reflection from point 2 of the changes, lowering the minutes by half)

Kobans and Money rewards stay the same.

 

Seasons:

6. League Season changes from 2 weeks to 1 week, for rewards to occur more frequently.

7. League season start day will be changed from Monday to Thursday;

 

Season Changes Option 1:

If we shorten Season 1 it will end on Wednesday 27 September and Season 2 will start on Thursday 28 Sept and will last for 7 days as any other season.

- Challenge and Recharge rules better go into effect earlier (Wednesday)

 

Season Change Option 2:

The other option is not to shorten Season 1. This way we may implement the following scheme - Season 1 ends on Sunday (29 Sept.) Season 2 Starts on Monday 30 Sept, and ends on Wednesday 10 Oct. (which makes it 10 days) Season 3 starts on Thursday (11 October) and is set for 7 days

- In this case, all changes are applied simultaneously with the start of the Second Season.

 

Please feel free to share your opinion!

 

[Bifter]

Option 1

 

[TomJerry]

I was thinking the 2 weeks was too long from the start. With being able to play throughout the day, I would have been able to have roughly 240 bouts during the 2 week period. Given the number of people with much higher Egos, this would have left me taking bouts where I would have been the loser (giving me 1 point instead of 3) making the league more about how long you have been playing the game and less about how often you play the game. My expectation is that playing the game often is what the developers are after so the reduction to a week for time and increase in opponents to 120 are both very good moves. There is definitely no need to keep the first league at the 2 weeks, option 1 is definitely the best option.

[Lavahit]

Actually I think the challenge recharge time should remain at 60 minutes and the xp you get by winning should give the current xp.

For those who really want to go up the leagues this option seems they might get more fights (in case they sleep for a long time period,the challenges will be full and not recharge new ones).

And as for the option I'm in favor for the second option.

I still have enough battles to end.

 

[El Daro]

So it's still only five hours for full recharge?

I tend to sleep more than for five hours, guys.

[crazyguy]

Option 1 for me, 10 days is unnecessarily long and 14 is just, no. One week is the perfect length for me. Also I would like if the recharge rate would stay at 1 hour so I can sleep and still have not the entire meter filled so I can make the most of it, but that's just me I guess. :P

[dekachinpo]

Thanks for this--much welcomed improvements. My preference goes for Option 1 and I voted so.

My biggest concern with the Leagues is the huge gap in levels, which will obviously prevent me and a lot of players to advance. I see the above improvements (increase in number of players and reduction of the leagues' lifetime--though somewhat cancelled out by a faster recharge) as a way to cope with it a bit more. 

Having said that, there's still too big of a chance that for the same playing time (also assuming a lot of effort is put into improving one's stats), a player may simply never get good rewards or advance to the next league. Wondering how well time will help solve that.

In my opinion, just like you compete in leagues in a sport, you should be battling players of roughly equal levels--this would actually encourage players to improve their stats. 

My stats are good for my level and have allowed me to defeat a number of players 30 to 40 levels above mine. But there's just now way I can defeat the rest.

In other words, why should one invest in equipment or capacities if it's not paying off?

Edited September 20, 2018 by dekachinpo

[Soullord]

Charges up to 10 is better and lowering charge time is not a good idea it needs to stay 60 min.

You want to make it fair remove the koban refill. Time is here what counts and you don't have time to face all so the person who spends the most kobans wins. Shorter season = more koban spending.

[Cantrix]

Option 1 althugh...
It really doesn't matter i don't see the point in adding a second pvp bracket instead of building up the existing one. Moreover it adds more fodder to the game, which isn't good. I'm  obliged to do leagues which i despise. I dont like the pvp here it's noninteractive and there's nothing much the player can do with it. You can't even use girls of other specs because you are losing stats and the effect they provide is irrelevant. Most of the matches end with only the alpha being in the game. The third girl never enters the battle which is a huge bummer.
Another reason i dislike the leagues is because i'm compelled to do it otherwise i'm behind in exp which means i'm also loosing contests.
For players who like it though a good option for the leagues would be the ability to convert energy in the current points. This way players who are currently capped in the story will have a way to spend their energy.

Edited September 20, 2018 by Cantrix

[Flippato]

Option 1

[Sombre]

Nobody care. It's another Pay2win game. If you use your koban, you are first anyway. Like in all other game in this game. 

[OneMoreBite]

58 minutes ago, Noacc said:

4. The price per minute for the recharge changes from 0.36 to 0.48 (0.06 to 0.08 in Nutaku Kobans)

Better still, why not just get rid of Koban charge refills altogether just to ACTUALLY make things fair. (Because Koban recharges = PAY TO WIN!)

Edited September 20, 2018 by OneMoreBite

[wurstbrot]

 I don't like that the leagues get bigger... I calculated that in group of 239 players one would need to spend more than 6000 kobans a week to fight all possible battles.(accounting for eight hours of sleep) that means that players who don't spend a lot of kobans don't even have a chance. Keep it at around a hundred and everything would be perfect.

[GeorgeMTO]

My opinions as a player, I think most of these changes are quite good. 1 week durations will be rather appreciated, and the change in schedule means it doesn't reset at the same time as ToF, allowing more variety in options.
I personally don't understand the logic of increasing the league sizes (as this wasn't explained) and this means the minimum league size is now more than the number of challenges we could issue without recharging.
I would also prefer to have a longer maximum recharge time than 5 hours, but I understand this isn't something changing.

 

Now to respond to a few other players

19 minutes ago, dekachinpo said:

Thanks for this--much welcomed improvements. My preference goes for Option 1 and I voted so.

My biggest concern with the Leagues is the huge gap in levels, which will obviously prevent me and a lot of players to advance. I see the above improvements (increase in number of players and reduction of the leagues' lifetime--though somewhat cancelled out by a faster recharge) as a way to cope with it a bit more. 

Having said that, there's still too big of a chance that for the same playing time (also assuming a lot of effort is put into improving one's stats), a player may simply never get good rewards or advance to the next league. Wondering how well time will help solve that.

In my opinion, just like you compete in leagues in a sport, you should be battling players of roughly equal levels--this would actually encourage players to improve their stats. 

My stats are good for my level and have allowed me to defeat a number of players 30 to 40 levels above mine. But there's just now way I can defeat the rest.

In other words, why should one invest in equipment or capacities if it's not paying off?

To my understanding, the point of leagues is so you can see how you rate overall in the server. There is already arena and contests for you to compete against other players in a similar level range, so they decided to add some features which work outside of it. In a few weeks, all of the very strong players will be several leagues ahead, and then you'll be able to advance to higher leagues.

16 minutes ago, Cantrix said:

For players who like it though a good option for the leagues would be the ability to convert energy in the current points. This way players who are currently capped in the story will have a way to spend their energy.

This would make leagues an end game only option, as they do not want people to have to choose between advancing the story or participating in another feature. Had you thought of that when you made this suggestion? It also gets awkward whenever a new scroll is released. In my opinion as a player, I do not think this would be a good option.

[Costastom]

I'd like the increase from 5 to 10 charges but without lowering the recharge time.

[Kirigakure]

These changes overall stink. Moving to 1 week is nice for more frequent rewards, however you increased the group size and didn't change the time it takes to reach a full bar, despite changing the refill time and the max amount of points (still 5 hours to reach a full bar). People have lives and this is a game. You can't healthily revolve a sleep schedule and work schedule around a game. Only hardcore players will attempt such and trying to force it will only cost you players in the long-run.

Making the minimum group size bigger while keeping the already short max bar refill timer only makes it so you can fight less people in your group and more likely to lose in a season unless you spend Kobans to do refills, even if you adjust your daily schedule to never miss a single point. This seems deliberately done to encourage spending and form a p2w mindset in what is supposed to be a fun competition. It's instantly become less about competing against other players and more about who can pay the most money to buy their win. This frankly comes off as sleazy in a way I've only seen in some of the worst of Japanese gachas.

With the changes occurring regardless of proposed option and both options only being in regards to when these changes take effect, both options are simply terrible and we're picking between the lesser of two evils here.

I'd also like to add how wonderful it is that you posted a notification about this in-game for Harem/Hentai Heroes only, ignoring to do such for your other but similar game GayHarem which would be affected as well by this, effectively making it seem like you don't care about those players opinions (or rather their game).

Edited September 20, 2018 by Kirigakure

[CR0]

(120 players-1) x 3 attack = 357 attacks 
we will have 7 x 24 = 168 hours  x 2 = 336 attacks

so we won't be able to win all the matches without kobans, right? 

we need 14,4 x 21= 302 kobans for the first place?  
ah that means wanker I and II are a loss 
 

Edited September 20, 2018 by CR0

[Gambit126]

Seriously?  Not even halfway through the first season and you drop this bombshell on us!

First off, you should have started this discussion and gotten our feedback before offering us only two options to proceed going forward.

Secondly, the idea of increasing the amount of challenge points is good, but if you are also going to increase the refresh rate to 30 minutes and also halve the xp gain, then the new cp cap should be increased to 20, not 10.  This would allow ten hours for them to accumulate instead of the current five.

Lastly, but certainly not least, you propose to increase the total members in the league without proportionately increasing the total number of challenges we can make during a single season.  This is unacceptable.

 

[dekachinpo]

6 minutes ago, GeorgeMTO said:

To my understanding, the point of leagues is so you can see how you rate overall in the server. There is already arena and contests for you to compete against other players in a similar level range, so they decided to add some features which work outside of it. In a few weeks, all of the very strong players will be several leagues ahead, and then you'll be able to advance to higher leagues.

Thanks for you answer.

I'm not convinced. Only a few players can advance to the next league. The number of players is being increased, which means more strong players in a league. It will take more than just a few weeks to advance at all since the league composition is randomly generated. But even so, assuming that you do advance: then what? There's little (or no) chance you'll get a juicy reward (which in my opinion is the real objective).

I think the Arena serves (or should be seen as serving) a different purpose. You fight opponents one-off, you get rewards and Mojo, there's a daily quest: you get immediate results. The Tower of Fame gives me information on players' levels, rankings, and stats. I can tell how well I compare by looking at it. So why would I need the Leagues to tell me something I already know? 

[Fern109]

As many people on this topic pointed already, A total Bar recharge time for League battles of 5 hours isn't healthy. 

This game prompts to be a free to play game, but is rapidly turning backsides

- With 5 hours bar recharge time, we are encouraged to schedule our sleep time around a game, which makes it quite unpleaseant 

- Even if you actually decide to not sleep correctly to use your points throughtly, Any person who decide to pay for recharging takes your place and effort which makes for a frustrating experience. 

- As soon as people find that even if they wear themselves down to play and still loses for paying players, they will quit the game, representing a massive loss of players on the long run.

- If this keeps up, this will be no better than those shitty Nutaku games with huge gaps between paying and non paying players, categorizing another shitty pay to win game. 

HH is better than this, don't screw it.

[GeorgeSlo]

Well, don't like leagues. 25 players don't play. And you want to increase leagues with more plaxers? I am now wtih 264 level and some other players with 43, 56, 74, etc.  System of "Win" or "Lost" is strange as in Arena fights. Etc. Option 1

 

2. The recharge time is changed from 60 minutes to 30 minutes per 1 challenge

(Dev. commentary: This will save time and will make the game better)

3. Amount of charges is up from 5 to 10

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok.

 

5. Experience gained per battle is lowered by 50%

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not ok.

 

For all other I don't care.

[GokuB]

the increased amount of battles from 5 to 10 and cut recharge to 30min. only makes it worse for people who don't have access to the server like me. You still haven't fixed servers all this time. And just for reference I have good 100/100 net.

[Fucker]

In the survery there's written:
"Leagues brackets will change from 100 - 199 to 120 - 239 players"
I think you should not increase the number of players, because you are doubling the number of fights, but halving the duration of the days, so the total number of fights will be the same.

 

And another thing, maybe you don't want it, but I think it's a good solution.
I propose an option 3:
Extend this season until October 4th and then start immeditely with the new type  of season.

What do you think?

[Hotless]

 

[Zteev]

As leagues are right now, one can use all the tokens without much effort and no loss of sleep assuming 8 hours of sleep and using them all up before you sleep. However, if you aren't a top level player, you are going to be fighting sure losses. So reducing time and/or increasing number of players per league is good. The increase in number of players, does in fact, increase the number of challenges you have available, since you were limited to 297 (99 players x 3 per player) before the change.

However, not actually seeing what a full cycle of the current implementation looks like is a bad idea, as it often is generally. Changing rules of something partway through before it's over is also generally a bad idea - even if it needs to change. You set precedent for doing it at later times, and it's best to not change rules without notice.

Faster refresh rate is okay, as it allows people to use more while they are present if they are playing for a full half hour, but it really doesn't save that much time compared to simply increasing the max from 5 to 10.