Patch Notes 09/01/19 Discussion

[saberbholt]

35 minutes ago, GeorgeMTO said:

Realised I hadn't actually given feedback on the patch itself, just responded to people being dumb.

New scroll: Earlier than I expected, a pleasant surprise!

Level information for Karole: Good to have the exact levels for when items drop. I'm curious could you confirm if there's a difference in drop chance for different items? Ie are flowers more likely to drop than lingerie of the same rarity? (obviously I don't expect actual numbers)

Girls not being in the Epic Pachinko: GREAT NEWS. We've asked for this for ages, and while the earlier boss girls are still in there, this doesn't provide a set back to people who had already cleared it. Please continue to keep future boss girls out, and perhaps reconsider removing the earlier boss girls as well?

 

They will do it only  with all new girls in the future so you have to do the Boss if or if they will not give money but objects un.... I mean .. very useful

 

Really do not understand this fanboy mentality who just wants you to give him all your money and he does not care about anything

Edited January 8, 2019 by saberbholt

[GeorgeMTO]

Just now, saberbholt said:

 

They will do it only  with all new girls in the future so you have to do the Boss if or if they will not give money but objects un.... I mean .. very useful

 

They are useful though. I often spend my money on affection gifts, fighting Karole means I don't have to do that now. If the next boss gives books, also good, because I can never get enough of those. Boosters: Yeah okay this one would suck.

I do need money too, but the only thing that matters to me in this game is getting girls and their scenes. Affection gifts help me do that.

[DHarry]

Dont for earlier girls and Im game for the change now. I have spent years to get all of them out of epic, not just to see everyone get that in a flash. 

 

The money vs gifts thing is a wait and see thing. I may go for the gifts and dump them in Taria. If I ever have to go charm, that will help. 

Because we never know who they will make OP next. It wont be balanced, thats for sure. I will have to switch though, so many tbings require hard cash, it sounds a bit crazy to remove income tbh.

[Sovereign RHB]

8 minutes ago, DHarry said:

The money vs gifts thing is a wait and see thing. I may go for the gifts and dump them in Taria. If I ever have to go charm, that will help. 

 

Morning.

So Taria is a cumdump?

Money is always better/more universal than gifts - unless the gifts outweigh the money value when you sell them. @BananaJoy has given us a glimpse of what is to come. And the future looks bleak.

Edited January 8, 2019 by dirty harry

[saberbholt]

12 minutes ago, GeorgeMTO said:

They are useful though. I often spend my money on affection gifts, fighting Karole means I don't have to do that now. If the next boss gives books, also good, because I can never get enough of those. Boosters: Yeah okay this one would suck.

I do need money too, but the only thing that matters to me in this game is getting girls and their scenes. Affection gifts help me do that.

It's funny that most people want the money and not the affect gifts in the French publications and in this forum, maybe it's just conformism the idea of "I'll use the gifts of affection, it could be worse"; but the reality for the reaction in what I read in both forums is that we want money and not gifts like those.

 

It is as if you are going to work and you are paid in bread and food because "you will use it and it is useful for you", surely if you would make a good fuss.

[[CNO] BananaJoy]

not everybody need gifts or already have plenty of them. and my stats or gp cant be paid with gifts. so they r only half affective like money.

Edited January 8, 2019 by BananaJoy

[fap.titans.gra]

I will write the same as I wrote under a different topic:

It is always better to get money, because you can spend what you want. And when you get a gift, you have frozen money.  You can sell but 6 times cheaper, So you freeze money because if you need it you will have to buy 6 times more expensive.  if you have money, you do not have such a problem, you need a gift, a book, or something else. You buy.

I see nothing wrong that the new boss gives affection items, but it must give the value of items much greater than the pure cash on the same level boss,  to recompense the lack of choice for what you want to spend money on. in addition, this is another RNG system. That is, you do not know if you will get a legendary item and what is the chance, unfortunately 70% -90% are normal gifts, probably 1% are legendary gifts.  Which makes this boss even more frustrating.

In the previous system you knew how much money you would get and you could always spend it  what you want- here is the biggest difference

and as for the girls in EP I do not mind that there are no new girls in EP, but in combination with the fact that the new boss does not give money and only gifts, it's a bit annoying, because BananaJoy has spent almost 20K kobans on leveling the boss and winning 3 girls, and in my opinion it is better to spend 16.2K kobans to get them in the EP.

Edited January 8, 2019 by fap.titans.gra

[fap.titans.gra]

3 hours ago, GeorgeMTO said:

Realised I hadn't actually given feedback on the patch itself, just responded to people being dumb.

and what you think is feedback? - "everything is great, do it more, bravo!"- is feedback?

feedback is what people think about changes and how to improve them.  world 11 is for high level players. they know what they want from the game. They have been playing for a long time. they certainly know each other about the aspects of different types of games, and about changes because they have changed something more than once. 
 

3 hours ago, GeorgeMTO said:

New scroll: Earlier than I expected, a pleasant surprise!

Level information for Karole: Good to have the exact levels for when items drop. I'm curious could you confirm if there's a difference in drop chance for different items? Ie are flowers more likely to drop than lingerie of the same rarity? (obviously I don't expect actual numbers)

Girls not being in the Epic Pachinko: GREAT NEWS. We've asked for this for ages, and while the earlier boss girls are still in there, this doesn't provide a set back to people who had already cleared it. Please continue to keep future boss girls out, and perhaps reconsider removing the earlier boss girls as well?

And this is not feedback. Feedback is to show the pros and cons of changes

For example:  it's good that the girls who can be obtained from the boss are not in the EP, because it annoyed me that you could get a free girl from EP, but it's a pity that there is no alternative way to get these girls, for example they could be in GP- this is feedback

 

[lunchboxx]

I'm pretty neutral over the whole affection items as rewards thing, as I'm content with the amount of money I make each day already. That said, I'm glad for the changes to not having them in Epic Pachinko, as I mirror GeorgeMTO's sentiment, while also adding onto the fact that this avoids wasteful koban spending. I remember back when I was still on world 9, and I managed to get enough kobans to get a x10 spin, only for me to get  Cunegonde from world 8, whom I wasn't able to get during my playthrough of the story. 5400 kobans wasted on a girl I could've gotten at any time with enough patience and time spend on world 8.

[GeorgeMTO]

1 hour ago, fap.titans.gra said:

and what you think is feedback? - "everything is great, do it more, bravo!"- is feedback?

feedback is what people think about changes and how to improve them.  world 11 is for high level players. they know what they want from the game. They have been playing for a long time. they certainly know each other about the aspects of different types of games, and about changes because they have changed something more than once. 
 

And this is not feedback. Feedback is to show the pros and cons of changes

For example:  it's good that the girls who can be obtained from the boss are not in the EP, because it annoyed me that you could get a free girl from EP, but it's a pity that there is no alternative way to get these girls, for example they could be in GP- this is feedback

 

I was simply saying I hadn't given my own feedback, just responded to others who had given there's. I apologise for this confusion. Yes they were giving feedback, I simply felt they'd missed some points of importance in theirs.

I find it amusing to see that you criticise me for being picky about others feedback not counting (which wasn't my intent) and then say that my own doesn't count. There's multiple ways to give feedback, pros and cons is one, saying whether a feature is seen as positive or negative is another.

Every comment in this thread is feedback, that is unarguable. Whether or not it is useful feedback is another question entirely.

[fap.titans.gra]

38 minutes ago, GeorgeMTO said:

I was simply saying I hadn't given my own feedback, just responded to others who had given there's. I apologise for this confusion. Yes they were giving feedback, I simply felt they'd missed some points of importance in theirs. 

here I agree with you fully.
 

41 minutes ago, GeorgeMTO said:

I find it amusing to see that you criticise me for being picky about others feedback not counting (which wasn't my intent) and then say that my own doesn't count. There's multiple ways to give feedback, pros and cons is one, saying whether a feature is seen as positive or negative is another. 

I find it amusing  when I see how you treat the community. In the first sentence: "just responded to people being dumb". You insult people,  And more importantly, when you say that others are stupid, you think that you are smarter and know better - basis of psychology. And when you say that, here is your next word: here is my feedback, which is completely one-sided. Ignoring half of the community (maybe most of them). The community expect more from the moderators: wisdom, guidance, help and be intermediate between the community and the creators of the game. You cant insult people. I am sorry that I am so harsh and if I offended you, this is not my intention, I just believe that it can be better way.
 

1 hour ago, GeorgeMTO said:

Every comment in this thread is feedback, that is unarguable. Whether or not it is useful feedback is another question entirely. 

And that's not quite true. Your previous commentary, and my current commentary are an example of that, for which I sincerely apologize

[GeorgeMTO]

49 minutes ago, fap.titans.gra said:

I find it amusing  when I see how you treat the community. In the first sentence: "just responded to people being dumb". You insult people,  And more importantly, when you say that others are stupid, you think that you are smarter and know better - basis of psychology. And when you say that, here is your next word: here is my feedback, which is completely one-sided. Ignoring half of the community (maybe most of them). The community expect more from the moderators: wisdom, guidance, help and be intermediate between the community and the creators of the game. You cant insult people. I am sorry that I am so harsh and if I offended you, this is not my intention, I just believe that it can be better way.

Slight mistake here, I'm not a moderator. The English forum has no moderators. I quit over a month ago as I did not wish to do the role due to personal time restraints with new jobs. Kinkoid just haven't removed my role from forum visibility despite repeated requests by me to do so. So holding me to a higher standard than others is unfair. I treated those players will all the respect they have earned from me, none.

I wasn't calling the people themselves stupid, but the feedback conveyed here is poorly thought out, and so it is a representation of lack of thought, ie stupidity.

[casey]

Just want to make the point that if players are receiving affection items in world 11 it sort of decreases the demand for them in the marketplace

economics 101 

[Chthugha]

Sooo, time to get this thing on the road (just reached world 11 today).
Do I need the gifts: not exactly since I've stashed away 250k+ affection, I prefer money as reward.
But I do want the girls from Karole.
So now I'll do 20 battles vs Karole every day (2 level ups), and the rest goes to Roko for the money.
Since I bought about 2-3 gifts everyday from the shop, I now won't have to do that anymore, since I'll get 20 gifts (or maybe less) from Karole everyday.
Once I've gotten all girls from her, I'll simply go back to fighting Roko the whole day again.

I like that the whole forum agreed that villain girls should be removed from the pachinko, and now that they have done that, people are suddenly very upset.
It's a good thing, and they should definitely do that for all future worlds as well.

I just want to say that I dislike Devin.
What an annoying character >,<

I feel that most people are speaking in hyperboles, and I'm afraid that comes across the wrong way, and it's also very hard to tune down from.
Sad to see this happen, but at least it does show emotion, which usually results from one thing: caring for the game.

[Arvelak]

I feel like I wouldn't mind Karole not having money as a reward as much if she started with the epic affection items, having to level her up 91 times to get them to drop seems pretty ridiculous.

[Masters]

Be nice if Karolle herself would eventually drop (after the 3 girls). Would even make sense story-wise. Once in your harem, you're not fighting her, you're giveing her booty-calls and she continues to give you gifts in appreciation of your lovin' skills…

[saberbholt]

1 hour ago, Chthugha said:

Sooo, time to get this thing on the road (just reached world 11 today).
Do I need the gifts: not exactly since I've stashed away 250k+ affection, I prefer money as reward.
But I do want the girls from Karole.
So now I'll do 20 battles vs Karole every day (2 level ups), and the rest goes to Roko for the money.
Since I bought about 2-3 gifts everyday from the shop, I now won't have to do that anymore, since I'll get 20 gifts (or maybe less) from Karole everyday.
Once I've gotten all girls from her, I'll simply go back to fighting Roko the whole day again.

I like that the whole forum agreed that villain girls should be removed from the pachinko, and now that they have done that, people are suddenly very upset.
It's a good thing, and they should definitely do that for all future worlds as well.

I just want to say that I dislike Devin.
What an annoying character >,<

I feel that most people are speaking in hyperboles, and I'm afraid that comes across the wrong way, and it's also very hard to tune down from.
Sad to see this happen, but at least it does show emotion, which usually results from one thing: caring for the game.

The problem of girls and pachinkko with the community is very simple, what is an insult is the way to do it and try to believe that it is not only because of their interest regardless of the request of the community and the difference is obvious:
Case 1: Eliminate all Boss girls from Pachinko (new and old) --- Well done, show interest in opinions.
Case 2: Only eliminate as the new Boss girls have done that does not give money to force if or if to fight with the - Badly done, use what the community asks, distorting the idea, only for their own interests without caring anything what the community asks for

But you can see the difference, because you think that only matters the facts and not how you get to them, you will never understand why that anger.
If from now on no Boss girl ever returned to Pachinko, no one would have complained (including those who have their Pachinko empty), but not for other economic interests, which are a mockery of the idea raised by the community and its users

[ZackMacKenzie]

I'm at least 6 months away from dealing with this change, but the narrative leaves me with one big question.  What is this really supposed to balance?

As far as I know, pay to win games generally aren't balanced.  They aren't meant to be.  That's what creates the incentive to pay.

I can only see 2 places where "balance" matters in HH.

1. Classes
   There seems to be overwhelming consensus that Hardcore is the best class and Charm is the worst class.  Classes are the ONLY thing in the game that it makes sense to balance!  Further, the classes are far from balanced and there doesn't appear to be any effort to fix this.  In fact, IIRC the last change made the balance worse not better (changing the Charm orgasm power).
    
2. Balancing Non-Pay Grief Vs (Rage) Quit Rate
   Developers can always make the incremental benefits of paying as steep as they want but doing that risks alienating players that don't pay or pay very little.  If a game can sustain itself on whales alone, then this is a great strategy.  If it can't, then the gap has to be less dramatic to keep the low-paying (i.e. Month Card only) crowd happy and growing.
   
   One could argue that this is more tweaking than balancing, but that's semantics and it already suffers from language translation, so no biggie.
   
   More importantly, this is really a behind-the-scenes issue and as such doesn't really fit in the realm of game balance.  It's a tweak of the business model.  Finding the optimal pay-slope is a constant balancing act.  Every time the game adds new features changes the profit optimization.  Even the evolution of the player base demographics changes the optimization point.
   
   The danger in changing the slope on-the-fly is alienating the customers.  Mislabeling it doesn't help.  Unfortunately, calling it what it actually is doesn't help, either.  People instinctively push back against change.  Even when there is an obvious benefit to the change people tend to be skeptical about it, wondering "what's the catch?"  It's always best when this is done in a way that is subtle enough to not be noticed.  Another way is to use a 'spoonful of sugar' to help mitigate whatever pain the change causes in the short term.  A third way is to schedule a finite number of profitability tweaks each year — if they are already public and expected, people tend to be better prepared to deal with change.
   
   This might be why people are so upset by the change and the purported reasons behind it.
   
   For what it's worth, the 'whales-only' model doesn't appear consistent with the Club and (especially) the League features.  They rely on the size of the player pool being substantial so alienating the lowest profit players hurts them.

Just my quick two cents on the matter.  As usual, your mileage may vary.

[Chthugha]

3 hours ago, saberbholt said:

The problem of girls and pachinkko with the community is very simple, what is an insult is the way to do it and try to believe that it is not only because of their interest regardless of the request of the community and the difference is obvious:
Case 1: Eliminate all Boss girls from Pachinko (new and old) --- Well done, show interest in opinions.
Case 2: Only eliminate as the new Boss girls have done that does not give money to force if or if to fight with the - Badly done, use what the community asks, distorting the idea, only for their own interests without caring anything what the community asks for

But you can see the difference, because you think that only matters the facts and not how you get to them, you will never understand why that anger.
If from now on no Boss girl ever returned to Pachinko, no one would have complained (including those who have their Pachinko empty), but not for other economic interests, which are a mockery of the idea raised by the community and its users

See, here's the problem.
If you remove all the old ones as well, veterans will also complain, because they've always had to deal with normal girls in the epic pachinko.
So it will be spitting in the face of veterans.
It's NEVER going to be good enough.
They are doing it now, and no matter what accompanies it is not important in this case.
I want the chance to get event girls from new events from the epic pachinko (I worked hard to get to a very minimal amount of permanent girls on Nutaku).
I would not have been happy if these three girls would be in the pachinko.

I don't look at it as a conspiracy, but as one thing I always wanted to happen, and now it finally happened.
You're not happy about the gifts on Karole, and now you take this part as a kick in the face, because there's no easy way out.

[saberbholt]

1 hour ago, Chthugha said:

See, here's the problem.
If you remove all the old ones as well, veterans will also complain, because they've always had to deal with normal girls in the epic pachinko.
So it will be spitting in the face of veterans.
It's NEVER going to be good enough.
They are doing it now, and no matter what accompanies it is not important in this case.
I want the chance to get event girls from new events from the epic pachinko (I worked hard to get to a very minimal amount of permanent girls on Nutaku).
I would not have been happy if these three girls would be in the pachinko.

I don't look at it as a conspiracy, but as one thing I always wanted to happen, and now it finally happened.
You're not happy about the gifts on Karole, and now you take this part as a kick in the face, because there's no easy way out.

 

is that that is precisely the point and what it tells you was done only for the interest that the whales use their kobans in 20k's with the new Boss instead of using 16k2 with 27 additional elements of Pachinko; They saw that it was better business only and I will tell you why: If the veterans are going to complain anyway, you take them all away because that is what was always asked, if you only want money for kobans purchases, you do exactly what you have done.

As you indicate in both cases there are complaints, yes; but they are more justified if it is because the community asked for it instead of a question of money for the company. Sometimes the intention is more important than the result and that is what differentiates between company policies and individuals.

[Damoncord]

By the time you get to the new boss, Green and Grey affection items are damn near worthless and don't give decent money if you sell them.  I've got a few HUNDRED in my inventory that I'm just to lazy to sell.

[Damoncord]

21 hours ago, Master Holt said:

Ok, I am going to take the unenviable position of suggesting this is not the end of the game, the Devs. didn’t screw up and that this will actually turn out to be a good thing giving you more money in the long run than you would get if the boss just gave us cash.

 

Looking through the wiki I discovered that each point of affection costs 417 dollars whither you buy the common flowers or the epic lingerie. So every item that drops is giving you 417 dollars times the number of affection points. Using the number Tee Jay stated for Roku’s starting reward of $11,500 (I think that’s right but can’t find where the Devs said where he started) you would need to be given an item with 27.5779 affection points, the item that comes closest to that is the common lingerie with 25.

 

This means that half of the items Karol can give you are worth less than what you would get in cash,

 

flowers       $1251

chocolates $2,919

bracelet       $6,255

lingerie         $10,4525

 

and half are worth more,

 

Rare flowers       $16,680

Rare chocolates $25,021

Rare bracelet      $33,361

Rare lingerie        $41,701

 

I would point out that those last two are worth more than what you would receive from max level Roku for one battle. Now obviously there is the factor of randomness that comes into play, some one here that is good at math could tell you exactly where the break even point is but as long as the breakdown isn’t some where around 80% common items 20% rare you should be making more money from the beginning of Karol’s battles then you were at the end of Roku’s.

 

At the highest level, half of Karol’s items are worth more than you could get from multiple battles against Roku.

 

legendary flowers       $291,900 – 9.89 Roku fights

legendary chocolates $396,150 – 13.43 Roku fights

legendary bracelet       $500,400 – 16.96 Roku fights

legendary lingerie        $625,500 – 21.20 Roku fights

 

Now I am sure some of you want to point out that you don’t need affection items, you have all 235+ girls, every single one of them is max level and you have 99,999 Legendary Lingerie.

 

For everyone else, even if all of your girls are at max affection and you have lots of affection items, you are going to need more. There are new girls arriving every month, at least one of those is a legendary or epic so spend the free battle points to get free affection.

 

Now of course all of this depends on the split of rewards, but so far I haven’t seen the sky fall in, so maybe tap the breaks, keep an eye on the actual breakdown of rewards and give the Developers a chance to add some change to there game. I know that we come to expect certain things and when there is no explanation before a change happens it is human nature to expect the worst. But I think, I hope, that with the time the Devs have put into this game so far and the improvements they have done (Faster quest releases, better art, more varied girl types) and those that they have talked about (improving the clubs, giving us a way to tell how close we are to catching a girl) that they want to make the best product available. Remember even with as polished as some parts of this game are it is still and will hopefully always be a developing game things will change, hopefully for the better, sometimes not.

 

The biggest “problem” I see this change might cause is that after world 11 if they give other prizes on other worlds (every other world please I still would like some of the future bosses to still give money)the store may become obsolete. If I could go to world 11 and farm affection or world 13 to farm exp or 15 to farm something else (probably not items that would be just too powerful) then I have choices on what I want to do instead of just slamming my self against whichever boss wall is the highest level over and over for two months while I am running through the world.

 

 

Hate to break it to you but those are the purchasing values. if you're selling them the Green lingerie only give 6951, and the purple (once leveled enough) would give 105K.  The problem is getting the REALLY fucking rare drop for a purple affection item since they don't mention removing any of the crap items from her drop table.  Maxed level the best items would give between 49k and 105K in a low chance with most of your drops being under 7K.  I'm not willing to trade a reliable cash drop for the chance at a good one, especially knowing that during events they will add the purples to other bosses.

 

 

[Chthugha]

43 minutes ago, saberbholt said:

 

is that that is precisely the point and what it tells you was done only for the interest that the whales use their kobans in 20k's with the new Boss instead of using 16k2 with 27 additional elements of Pachinko; They saw that it was better business only and I will tell you why: If the veterans are going to complain anyway, you take them all away because that is what was always asked, if you only want money for kobans purchases, you do exactly what you have done.

As you indicate in both cases there are complaints, yes; but they are more justified if it is because the community asked for it instead of a question of money for the company. Sometimes the intention is more important than the result and that is what differentiates between company policies and individuals.

I can't really sympathize with people buying all girls from pachinko, to be honest.
Sucks for them, but it's hardly a good representative for the whole community.
Those girls out of the pachinko is the best for almost everyone else.

[ScrubNoob]

I have to agree not putting them in the pachinko is generally for the best. It seems to me that outrage is mainly because some people were planning on getting the new girls this way rather than getting them from the boss. Ironically making it the one time those players wanted the old way to continue.

[Chthugha]

9 minutes ago, ScrubNoob said:

I have to agree not putting them in the pachinko is generally for the best. It seems to me that outrage is mainly because some people were planning on getting the new girls this way rather than getting them from the boss. Ironically making it the one time those players wanted the old way to continue.

Exactly what I wrote a couple of posts above yours.
I would never use kobans on free girls, and to be honest, I can't even imagine why you would do that unless you have waaaaaay too many kobans 🤷‍♂️