the new attraction system is a joke change my mind

[jaysen]

In this new system i only just went back to karol because she is as of this morning the last girl i need is in her harem. I had all others maxed out and kept going for bonny due to all other girls being mine and this revival event and last event having gotten all the girls. In less then a week fighting 40 times a day i gathered all her shards and got her along with three affection items. It seems while it will be a hassle going for three girls with this new system it will be a breeze once you only have one girl to go for left. Willow is my final girl and i always do 10 spins at a time so i see 10 affection items and sometimes a shard or 2 or most likely not at all. At least with this system it shows you that every battle you get closer to winning the girl and not just fighting for some lame ass items. 

[e5115271]

On ‎2‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 8:34 PM, Zorba the Geek said:

To reiterate, my biggest gripe is the demise of the girl drop animation - that wonderfully thrilling (and sometimes so surprising it's a shock) big black shadow shrinking into place to morph into the girl.  Unless we could work out the girl's outline as she's descending, who she is remains a mystery until her complete pose appears (assuming there is more than one girl to gain from the boss).  The end of that animation is pure boohoohoo time for me and I'm sad that HH have introduced such a bland and boring alternative.

Totally agree. What made the game so so exciting was that thought 'could this be the one...' during battles, and that moment of joy when the shadow dropped. It's now a depressing thought that I only have a tiny chance to get a shard, and eventually when they drop I have to get 100 of them. Like those Korean MMOs where you have to get 100 scorpion claws from killing scorpions, and the scorpions only have a tiny chance of dropping the claws.

Based on the current shard drop rate, I can forget about getting the event girls too, unless I spend a fortune on Koban refills. Instead I'll have to go through several rounds of revival events.

Edited February 16, 2019 by e5115271

[Cantrix]

2 hours ago, e5115271 said:

Totally agree. What made the game so so exciting was that thought 'could this be the one...' during battles, and that moment of joy when the shadow dropped. It's now a depressing thought that I only have a tiny chance to get a shard, and eventually when they drop I have to get 100 of them. Like those Korean MMOs where you have to get 100 scorpion claws from killing scorpions, and the scorpions only have a tiny chance of dropping the claws.

Based on the current shard drop rate, I can forget about getting the event girls too, unless I spend a fortune on Koban refills. Instead I'll have to go through several rounds of revival events.

You are omitting the fact that you can still get the girl in one fight. It's pretty much the same system, only they have added a bit of progression element. Count the number of fights you have to do to get the girls and you will see it's basically the same.

[[CNO] BananaJoy]

for normal boss girl i agree. its basically the same only u see progress now. before it was a pity timer. but for event girls its a big improvement like before. ok in the first events its maybe not that big difference but for every repeat of the same event u wont start at 0 again. i think thats definatly better than before

[pozi]

Val Red Battler has just landed in my harem after collecting a bunch of 'partial' shards. Normal fights since day 1 of this event and only 2 refills (at discount) which also allowed me to start building Val Abrael's affection (currently at 14/100) . Even if I can't get her tomorrow with maybe a couple more refills, she'd probably be around 30-40% next time she appears. So yes, I got one girl just like in other events with the old system, but now at least I can see some progression on the other one

[ZackMacKenzie]

Here are my early returns with the new system.  Far from impressed at this point, but it IS still early.

It took 157 battles against The Dark Lord to snag Val Red Battler.  That ranks as my 5th best ( of 8 ) performance against TDL.  The 3 worse results were 422 to drop, 481 to drop, and 150 without a drop (part of a 736 fight drought).

It took 20 shard hits to reach the 100 needed.  That means I collected 66,500 ymen less than I would have under the old system, assuming the same number of fights until the drop.

The final hit took me from 99 shards to 111 (that was the biggest hit I've managed so far), so I collected 11 Epic Flowers as a bonus.  The market sells them for 54,210 ymen and buys them back at 9,035.  Using the geometric average of these values, i.e. the square root of (buy x sell), I received a bonus of over 243,000 ymen!  That's roughly quadruple the 66,500 I 'lost' due to the shards system only paying out on misses.  Sounds awesome, right?  But, this was the absolute best-case scenario, hitting the maximum shards when sitting on 99%.  In any case, this can only happen with Revivals and the 3 lowest trolls, where the shard cap is relatively high (12-69), and the ymen lost is low (3,500 - 7,500).  It drops off and flips to a net loss very quickly as you move up the villain ladder and up the event ladder.

From there I moved on to Edwarda.  So far, I've only racked up 30 fights against her.  I've got her whole orgy team so I can only get shards for Val Abraël.  To this point, I've gotten ONE hit, for precisely ONE shard (on the 22nd attempt if that matters).  While this is a VERY small sample size, it projects to 3000 fights to completion!  On Edwarda!  For a Revival Event that allegedly has a higher hit rate due to its short duration!

The last part of my experience with the Attraction / Shard system was the final day of the Classic Event.  I spent it battling Bremen.  I hadn't won any of his team so shards were going to get spread across three different girls.  Assuming the dev team made hit rates roughly similar, that means it would take almost 3 times as long to win ONE girl, but roughly the same amount of time to get all three.  I managed to squeeze in 45 battles and hit 3 times for 12 shards total, spread over two of the three girls.  Assuming this rate holds, I should have all three after 1,125 fights.  That doesn't seem excessive at all.  I'm 0-fer with Donatien after 470 tries and it took 1,078 fights to steal away Edwarda's last hostage.

If the hit rate continues it will take 75 hits to get the 300 shards, or 25 per girl.  That's 180,000 "lost" ymen per girl (24*7,500)!  The maximum "over" one can get is hitting 7 shards from 99 for 6 extras. Using the same valuation as above, that's about 132,500 ymen value as a bonus, less than the loss.  If you value the flowers at their full purchase price, AND the odds of hitting 1 - 7 shards on any hit is uniform, then the best outcome is a whopping ~325,250 ymen, but the average overage is still only ~162,500 ymen, or an expected loss of income.  Remember, this is when optimistically valuing the flowers at full price, as though you actually need more Affection items, which may or may not be the case.  Using the average or sell price results in an even more dismal bottom line.

So, early analysis is that results are still pretty wildly disparate, and while we are "losing" ymens due to shard hits not paying out cash, the amount we're losing is not as large as we perceive SO LONG AS we still need affection items for our harem.  If you're past that point, then yes, you are taking a huge hit and the bonuses (boni) you'll score won't come remotely close to recouping that loss.

As always, YMMV.

[Zorba the Geek]

3 hours ago, ZackMacKenzie said:

Here are my early returns with the new system.  Far from impressed at this point, but it IS still early.

It took 157 battles against The Dark Lord to snag Val Red Battler.  That ranks as my 5th best ( of 8 ) performance against TDL.  The 3 worse results were 422 to drop, 481 to drop, and 150 without a drop (part of a 736 fight drought).

It took 20 shard hits to reach the 100 needed.  That means I collected 66,500 ymen less than I would have under the old system, assuming the same number of fights until the drop.

The final hit took me from 99 shards to 111 (that was the biggest hit I've managed so far), so I collected 11 Epic Flowers as a bonus.  The market sells them for 54,210 ymen and buys them back at 9,035.  Using the geometric average of these values, i.e. the square root of (buy x sell), I received a bonus of over 243,000 ymen!  That's roughly quadruple the 66,500 I 'lost' due to the shards system only paying out on misses.  Sounds awesome, right?  But, this was the absolute best-case scenario, hitting the maximum shards when sitting on 99%.  In any case, this can only happen with Revivals and the 3 lowest trolls, where the shard cap is relatively high (12-69), and the ymen lost is low (3,500 - 7,500).  It drops off and flips to a net loss very quickly as you move up the villain ladder and up the event ladder.

From there I moved on to Edwarda.  So far, I've only racked up 30 fights against her.  I've got her whole orgy team so I can only get shards for Val Abraël.  To this point, I've gotten ONE hit, for precisely ONE shard (on the 22nd attempt if that matters).  While this is a VERY small sample size, it projects to 3000 fights to completion!  On Edwarda!  For a Revival Event that allegedly has a higher hit rate due to its short duration!

The last part of my experience with the Attraction / Shard system was the final day of the Classic Event.  I spent it battling Bremen.  I hadn't won any of his team so shards were going to get spread across three different girls.  Assuming the dev team made hit rates roughly similar, that means it would take almost 3 times as long to win ONE girl, but roughly the same amount of time to get all three.  I managed to squeeze in 45 battles and hit 3 times for 12 shards total, spread over two of the three girls.  Assuming this rate holds, I should have all three after 1,125 fights.  That doesn't seem excessive at all.  I'm 0-fer with Donatien after 470 tries and it took 1,078 fights to steal away Edwarda's last hostage.

If the hit rate continues it will take 75 hits to get the 300 shards, or 25 per girl.  That's 180,000 "lost" ymen per girl (24*7,500)!  The maximum "over" one can get is hitting 7 shards from 99 for 6 extras. Using the same valuation as above, that's about 132,500 ymen value as a bonus, less than the loss.  If you value the flowers at their full purchase price, AND the odds of hitting 1 - 7 shards on any hit is uniform, then the best outcome is a whopping ~325,250 ymen, but the average overage is still only ~162,500 ymen, or an expected loss of income.  Remember, this is when optimistically valuing the flowers at full price, as though you actually need more Affection items, which may or may not be the case.  Using the average or sell price results in an even more dismal bottom line.

So, early analysis is that results are still pretty wildly disparate, and while we are "losing" ymens due to shard hits not paying out cash, the amount we're losing is not as large as we perceive SO LONG AS we still need affection items for our harem.  If you're past that point, then yes, you are taking a huge hit and the bonuses (boni) you'll score won't come remotely close to recouping that loss.

As always, YMMV.

That's a fair enough analysis.  My results on the test server are the polar opposite to yours.  In this account I had to get both girls.  I got Val Abrael with two days and 21 hours left to go so I felt I had a similar chance with Val Red Battler.  Well... It was Dark Lord wasn't it, my nemesis.  He hasn't proved me wrong so far.  I have completed 2 rounds (40 performances) against him for zero shard returns.  With one day and just over 3 hours left I don't rate my chances highly.  Once against Edwarda Val Abael was really impressed by my pitch and gave 25 shards, my absolute best to date.

[ZackMacKenzie]

3 minutes ago, Zorba the Geek said:

Once against Edwarda Val Abael was really impressed by my pitch and gave 25 shards, my absolute best to date.

Wow. I didn't even think that was possible.  AFAIK, the revival limit was 12, unless you got SUPER-lucky and got the magical 100 shard result.  Good to know that there are other 'high' values in the hopper.

[GeorgeMTO]

18 minutes ago, ZackMacKenzie said:

Wow. I didn't even think that was possible.  AFAIK, the revival limit was 12, unless you got SUPER-lucky and got the magical 100 shard result.  Good to know that there are other 'high' values in the hopper.

They aren't. He did a x10 battle and the total was 25.

[Zorba the Geek]

30 minutes ago, GeorgeMTO said:

They aren't. He did a x10 battle and the total was 25.

No I didn't.  I never waste kobans on a x10 battle, especially with the system as it is now.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oops, sorry.  I did a recheck of my notes and it was x21, not x25, but you're going to tell me this was still impossible, right.

Edited February 17, 2019 by Zorba the Geek
add text

[GeorgeMTO]

4 hours ago, Zorba the Geek said:

No I didn't.  I never waste kobans on a x10 battle, especially with the system as it is now.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oops, sorry.  I did a recheck of my notes and it was x21, not x25, but you're going to tell me this was still impossible, right.

Indeed. If it's from notes rather than memory I feel it was more likely a typo of a x12. 21 frags of an event drop is not possible according to the patch  notes, and this is the first I've heard of anyone getting a drop outside those ranges.

[Zteev]

I can confirm income gain, not loss from getting Valentine Red Battler. I expect this will be common on the lower bosses, given the small amounts of income.

I ended up with 104 affection, and that extra 4 affection turned into 4 epic flowers, which have a market price of 54,210 each. 4 x 54,210 = 216,840.

It took me 26 fights generating shards to get her to drop, so that's 25 fights where I didn't gain money, which is 3,500 each time. 25 x 3,500 = 87,500.

216,840 - 87,500 = 129,340 gain.

 

[JJT]

What are the odds they now will offer to sell the shards?  Maybe 250 kobans a shard?

Edited February 17, 2019 by JJT

[pozi]

12 hours ago, ZackMacKenzie said:

If the hit rate continues it will take 75 hits to get the 300 shards, or 25 per girl.  That's 180,000 "lost" ymen per girl (24*7,500)!  The maximum "over" one can get is hitting 7 shards from 99 for 6 extras. Using the same valuation as above, that's about 132,500 ymen value as a bonus, less than the loss.  If you value the flowers at their full purchase price, AND the odds of hitting 1 - 7 shards on any hit is uniform, then the best outcome is a whopping ~325,250 ymen, but the average overage is still only ~162,500 ymen, or an expected loss of income.  Remember, this is when optimistically valuing the flowers at full price, as though you actually need more Affection items, which may or may not be the case.  Using the average or sell price results in an even more dismal bottom line.

So, early analysis is that results are still pretty wildly disparate, and while we are "losing" ymens due to shard hits not paying out cash, the amount we're losing is not as large as we perceive SO LONG AS we still need affection items for our harem.  If you're past that point, then yes, you are taking a huge hit and the bonuses (boni) you'll score won't come remotely close to recouping that loss.

As always, YMMV.

Not exactly true, you still can be extremely lucky and get a 'perfect 100' shard in one fight, so theoretically the maximum over one can get is 99 extras (not quite probable but still possible). Also, note that event girls on higher bosses are extremely rare. But nice analysis (it still amazed me how many players are willing to dutily note how many battles they need to get a girl, I wouldn't be able to do that)

[ilyjjk]

I’ve been getting 1 point each 10 battles for 2 days 😑

[Daniele]

Only one event is not enough to judge, but i've been pretty lucky this time. Got both girls on nutaku and test server (without koban refills), and here on my main account i got val red battler quite easily (already got abrael last year).

From what i can see, the purpose of this system is just to drastically reduce extremely lucky/unlucky scenario. So we'll have a lot less lucky players who get a girl with a few tries, but also no more unlucky players who get nothing after many koban refills.

Edited February 17, 2019 by Daniele

[JJT]

4 hours ago, ilyjjk said:

I’ve been getting 1 point each 10 battles for 2 days 😑

That's three more than I got.

[sanjkame]

On 2/12/2019 at 2:31 PM, Masters said:

On the live server I was working exclusively on dropping Val Mala. 11 days and nada, she's yet to drop. Then the Shards System kicks in and I've gotten 4 shards on her. 

What this tells me is that I'm NOT going to get even ONE girl for this 12 day event.

ALL the WORK spent on her and on the LAST DAY of the event my progress has been RESET TO ZERO.

I perfectly understand what you're saying, the new system can work properly if you use ALL the event's days, but not to be implemented on the last day event. But that's something that is not necessarily dev's fault...knowing that the system would change on the last day, you should have predict this new difficulty and have spent some kobans on the 11° day. There's no way to think about get 100/100 attraction in one day

 

 

[Masters]

32 minutes ago, sanjkame said:

I perfectly understand what you're saying, the new system can work properly if you use ALL the event's days, but not to be implemented on the last day event. But that's something that is not necessarily dev's fault...knowing that the system would change on the last day, you should have predict this new difficulty and have spent some kobans on the 11° day. There's no way to think about get 100/100 attraction in one day

Yeah, see, I don't spend Kobans on anything other than Epic Pachinko for guaranteed girls. After my first week, to date, the only thing I splurged Kobans on was opening a Club, which, so far, is a 1-time investment.

Even so, that doesn't negate my original complaint. NEVER before in a full Event, has it taken me the ENTIRETY of the days to get a girl. Even with no Refills. The first would generally drop between days 2-4 (only 2 ever in the first day), and the second would drop between days 8-10. ALL WITHIN the older 14-day Full Event, so the newer 12-day should've been a cakewalk.

This current Valentine's Revival (test server, I already have them live server), my first target, Val R Battler took me until the last day to Shard her, so I've basically given up hope to get Val Abrael, especially since with reset we're going immediately into the next 4-day event, no breathing space, and I'd rather start it with a full combativity counter than fight to the last for Abrael when I don't see chances favoring a 100-sharder.

Last Revival, old system, I didn't even get 1 girl.

[Zorba the Geek]

14 hours ago, pozi said:

Not exactly true, you still can be extremely lucky and get a 'perfect 100' shard in one fight, so theoretically the maximum over one can get is 99 extras (not quite probable but still possible). Also, note that event girls on higher bosses are extremely rare. But nice analysis (it still amazed me how many players are willing to dutily note how many battles they need to get a girl, I wouldn't be able to do that)

If this is in the same category as getting a x21 collection in one hit, I was told this was impossible so is it true you can get the occasional x100 result at once?  It seems inconsistent with the advice I received.  If it is true, this would overcome one of my big gripes about the loss of the element of surprise with the new system.

[GeorgeMTO]

25 minutes ago, Zorba the Geek said:

If this is in the same category as getting a x21 collection in one hit, I was told this was impossible so is it true you can get the occasional x100 result at once?  It seems inconsistent with the advice I received.  If it is true, this would overcome one of my big gripes about the loss of the element of surprise with the new system.

Yes x100 is possible. This is stated in the patch notes.

[John 1039]

47 minutes ago, Zorba the Geek said:

... so is it true you can get the occasional x100 result at once?  It seems inconsistent with the advice I received.  If it is true, this would overcome one of my big gripes about the loss of the element of surprise with the new system.

What else did you understand when I commented to clarify the same thing four days ago, "... I meant 100 shards in one try, not the remaining 30 only."

100 shards are possible for event drops and apparently normal non-event boss drops too.

 

[DHarry]

2 hours ago, Zorba the Geek said:

If this is in the same category as getting a x21 collection in one hit, I was told this was impossible so is it true you can get the occasional x100 result at once?  It seems inconsistent with the advice I received.  If it is true, this would overcome one of my big gripes about the loss of the element of surprise with the new system.

It is either between 1 and X, OR 100. Between X and 100 is impossible. 

[ravanex99]

hahahaha this games sucks now, bye bye guys i am done

[GeorgeMTO]

7 minutes ago, ravanex99 said:

hahahaha this games sucks now, bye bye guys i am done

Goodbye person who has never posted before. The forum is so different with your absence