12/Feb/2020 week 7 patch note discussion

[Endy Alf]

It used to be better (((((((((((((((

[Antimon]

9 ore fa, Zamio ha scritto:

By all means, do. It's probably better to go on the frontlines by yourself, just because you have a vested interest in reverting that change. I mean no offence to veterans, but it's unlikely they are going to fight tooth or nails for something that doesn't concern them (I would suspect all of them would already have the girls by now). In fact this change is better for them - some of them might not have collected the 8 rewards and I think most people would agree that Orbs are better than the cosmetics the Champions have to offer.

The fact that veterans with all 6 champion girls aren't touched by this change now doesn't mean they never won't be, though. Alban's scene (and common sense, imo) suggests that they could add new champions, somewhere in the future

Edited February 16, 2020 by Antimon

[blaa]

1 hour ago, Antimon said:

The fact that veterans with all 8 champion girls aren't touched by thus change now doesn't mean they never won't be, though. Alban's scene (and common sense, imo) suggests that they could add new champions, somewhere in the future

absolutley, and also, just because you are not affected of something it must not mean that you cant care - I do have all girls but I still think it's bad for the game overall

[jelom]

After some days to think about the patch and see how it is working this is my comment about it:

Adventure

• New quest release World 13 Quest 7: According to folks the great outdoors are great for the libido...find out what  surprises await in the wild in this week’s quest!
  • Warning: Some familiar faces may be seen in this chapter. Any connection to other game characters is purely intentional 

-> More chapters is always good, after all we started to play for the story. 👍

• We are testing a new formula to balance out the energy in this chapter. Exposition scenes will cost less energy while sex scenes will cost more.
  •  Please, don't forget to give us your feedback about the new formula when you'll finish the quest. It will be greatly appreciated! 

-> I agree that the sex scenes should cost more than just chatting scenes, but I find too much difference during the advance, 5 energy and then 40 is too much. 😐

Daily Missions

• 5 New daily have been added in the game -> Good, it is cosmetic, but adds more variety. 👍

Harem

• Two girls are getting new quest grades
  • Cunegonde and Sylvia are getting new 5-star quest grades  -> More stars is always good, more scenes and poses and more money from them. 👍

New Feature- Pachinko Orbs

The long-awaited Pachinko Orbs are finally here!

Pachinko Orbs (except GP) are options to get a girl, the main objective of the game, so they are welcome, but let's see it what they give is more than what they replace.

                 
 

• The Pachinko Orbs will be usable in the following Pachinko games
  • Epic x1 -> option for a girl (chance around 1/12).For top places in higher leagues: S2 1st, S3 1st-4th, D1 1st -15th, D2 1st-15th, D3 2nd-15th
  • Epic x10 -> Assured a girl. The best one. Only for winners of D3 league
  • Epic Draft -> Not implemented yet. Assured a girl.
  • Event Pachinko x4 -> Not implemented yet. Option for a girl 22.5%, avatar and leg equipment and affection equivalent to money.
  • Mythic x1 -> You can get legendary books equivalent to Ymens, leg boosters equivalent to Kobans, avatars and a chance (1-2%) for a girl (equivalent to kobans)
  • Mythic x3 -> Not implemented yet. Equivalent to 10% of a girl.
  • Mythic x6 -> Not implemented yet. Equivalent to 25% of a girl.
  • Great x1 -> Not implemented yet. Equivalent to money
  • Great x10 -> Not implemented yet. Equivalent to money
• Note that  ten Epic x1 doesn't convert to Epic x10 -> A pity, it would have been too good

 

• Pachinko Orbs can be won from the following places:
  • Villains 
    • Villains will have a chance of dropping an Epic x1 Orb -> Good. Until now it seems the chance is between 1-2%, so you can get one at least every other day.
       
  • Arena Daily Quests
    • The last reward from Arena Daily Quests will be one Mythic x1 game Orb which will replace the 2 champion ticket reward. -> Partially good. It is true you are losing tickets to beat champions, and that is bad for newbies who still need to get the girls and will lose money from fighting the champions and selling the unused legendary equipment. For veteran players over level 350, there has been 7 months to get the girls from the champions, so they should have all 6 by now if played consistently. I think the money you can lose from this is partially offset selling the rewards from the orbs, and the orb also gives a small chance for a girl.
       
  • Leagues 
    • Orbs will replace the Ymen Money reward ->
    •  From Wanker III and up the top places will be rewarded with Mythic x1 game, Epic x1 game or Epic x10 games Orbs. -> 85% of people (96% in S1 and 99% in W3) still will get the same amount of money. For top places I think orbs are better than just money, especially if you are a high level player.
      
       
  • Epic Daily Missions
    • Replacing  Yhem/Equipment rewards from Epic Daily Mission with a chance for Epic x1 game. -> Good. 👍 Still not enough data about frequency, but probably you can expect 1 mission daily to be an orb (that's my record for the last 4 days).
      
       
  • Champions
    • Champions will now have an additional drop of one Epic x1 game Orb for the first three champions and two Epic x1 game Orbs for the second three champions -> More orbs should be good, but read the next point ...
    • The orbs will NOT decrease the chance of obtaining the champion girls. -> Definitely not true. Before you have the girl assured in the 8th try. Not now. 👎 Veteran players that have all champions girls are not affected. For people with girls still in champions this could lengthen the proccess in an average of 1-2 more levels for most people, 5 more levels if you are unlucky (3% of people) and 10 in extreme cases (less than 0.01% people).
       

Tutorial

• Explanation on how to use the Pachinko Orbs will be included in the tutorial -> I haven't found it in the story tuto or pachinko chapter. Only two brief pop ups when implemented 👎
• Тo try out the new feature аll players will receive two Epic x1 Pachinko Orbs for free (Because touching two balls is better and more natural than one!) -> Free=good👌

Support System 

• Starting from today, the support system in the game should only be used in case of Technical Issues and Bug Reports. The team won't answer general game questions or questions about features. -> As it should be.
• For all other types of queries, please ask the Player Community on Discord, Facebook or check out the Player curated Wiki - Harem Battle Club -> And don't forget the forum.

 

And the Orbs FAQ

Q: What is the overall purpose of the Pachinko Orbs?
A: The goal of the Orbs feature is to provide a way for players to have access to Pachinko without the absolute need of using Kobans thus making the game more and more rewarding to all active players. -> The idea is good initially. but the implementation is difficult because some other rewards will be replaced, affecting some players. For me getting girls is the main objective, so each new way to get them without using kobans is good.

 

Q: So far we have 3 types of Orbs, how do you get the rest of the orbs?
A: We are planning to use the other types in different features. It is a question of balance and general rewarding patterns. -> Give them time to implement the rest of the orbs, but for sure they will also have a trade off for balance.

 

Q: What other features are you planning for Orbs to drop?
A: We are discussing using them in Contests, Events and maybe even Pachinko (mind-blown). Pachinkoseption? -> More orbs sounds good, and especially the pachinko part, probably in great pachinko offering mythic or epic pachinko orbs.

 

Q: Can several Orbs be combined and converted to a bigger x10 Game Orbs?
A: No, Orbs are strictly typified so no combinations are possible. -> So it seems orbs are tokens and every pachinko option accepts only one kind of token. I would have loved the option but it is not possible ... for now.

 

Q: Why are the Pachinko Orbs in different colors? 
A: General visual logic is that the color of the Orb represents the Pachinko menu color: Epic = red, Mythic = orange, Event = purple, Great = green. -> 👍

 

Q: If I have several Orbs, can I play them all of them at once? 
A: No, Orbs are always used one by one. -> Same comment as two questions above

 

Q: Will Pachinko Orbs affect the drop rate of Champions? 
A: Before, you could win items when you already won the girl and all the rewards at the last stage of each champion. It wasn't good enough. Now, you will be able to win a wonderful Epic Orb each time you finish the last stage of one Champion in order to use the Pachinko. Question not answered. If you have finished the girls in the champions now the orbs are a motivation to fight them again. But if you don't ...

 

Q: At what stages can I win Orbs from Champions?
A: Orbs are a final reward for completing the last stage of a Champion, together with Girl drops and Hero Page items. -> in the fifth stage when you can get the girl, so now the girl is not assured in the 8th try. Conclusion, if you don't get the girl in the 8th try and get instead an orb, it is a feature, not a bug. 👎 I would have changed for a chance, lets say 10%, to get an orb in the stages 1-4, or orbs as a reward in stage 5 after you get the girl. 

 

Q: Why do lower leagues give Mythic orbs and higher leagues give Epic ones? 
A: Higher leagues give better rewards. The Epic Orbs have a higher value since they give the possibility to access to better rewards in the corresponding Pachinko. -> Logical. Higher leagues are harder, so the reward should be better. And epic orbs are way better than mythic orbs.

 

Q: Is there a limit on how many Orbs you can stash?
A: No, you can stash as many as you want, we are not limiting you. -> Good for thrifty people.

 

Q: What happens to the Orbs when I have all the girls in the current pool? 
A: The Pachinko Orb will not be used and will appear in gray color. -> I am sure if this is not in place some people would waste them.

 

Final conclussion about orbs:

Possitive except for the champions 8th try for a girl. From villains and daily missions you can expect 10-15 1xEpic orbs a week, that should be enough for a girl, so the increment in girls obtained in the long run is substantial. The loss of money in leagues and for champion tickets is partially compensated selling the objects you can get playing the orbs in the pachinko. Now champions will take longer to beat because of less tickets and the increment in average levels needed. Veterans cannot complain about this, they had enough time to get all girls from the champions before orbs. People under level 300 is the most affected, but they have been beneffited from many changes that old veterans didn't have in the old times where the experience for level progress and income of Ymens and kobans were lesser than today. Game is better now than some years ago. True it has changed form an idle game to a more time consuming and competitive one, but it is still F2P if you have patience and perseverance.

P.S. Note for @DvDivXXX don't be paranoid. I don't have more info than you do, I don't even use discord where the juicy info is. If I didn't comment this patch initially was because I need time to think about it, see how it is working and digest the hundreds of comments about it.

Edited February 16, 2020 by jelom

[Тёмный Властелин]

Nice feedback. Can I ask you some questions?

4 hours ago, jelom said:

Until now it seems the chance is between 1-2%, so you can get one at least every other day.

Was there any research? I played for about 260 battles against different champs in the last 4 days (including 3 combativity refills): Edwarda for recent not obtained girls, Sylvanus for today's contest, Ninja spy for an event girl and din't get any.

4 hours ago, jelom said:

85% of people (96% in S1 and 99% in W3) still will get the same amount of money. For top places I think orbs are better than just money, especially if you are a high level player.

Orb rewards in Wanker 3, Sexpert 1-3 are substantially worse than money. Especially the mythic ones. Even Sexpert 3, where you can have 1 or 2 epic orbs for top places (really tough to achieve). Like, if you can have them on a daily basis from the daily missions, what's the point of even tryharding for them in the league?

4 hours ago, jelom said:

For people with girls still in champions this could lengthen the proccess in an average of 1-2 more levels for most people, 5 more levels if you are unlucky (3% of people) and 10 in extreme cases (less than 0.01% people).

How did you get those numbers? What's the math? Why is it 1-2 more levels to get the girl? And what about 5 more levels for 3% of the people? Why 5 levels? Why 3%?

4 hours ago, jelom said:

Q: So far we have 3 types of Orbs, how do you get the rest of the orbs?
A: We are planning to use the other types in different features. It is a question of balance and general rewarding patterns. -> Give them time to implement the rest of the orbs, but for sure they will also have a trade off for balance.

They should rebalance weekly contests Leaderboard in the Tower of Fame competitions using these orbs. Probably.

Sure, they can insert them in the daily contest and replace tickets there. For sure. For balance issues. Like they did with Arena reward tickets for 1 Mythic orb.

4 hours ago, jelom said:

From villains and daily missions you can expect 10-15 1xEpic orbs a week

I highly doubt in that number. It's more likely something about 7 epic orbs. But that is an object for further investigation.

Edited February 16, 2020 by Тёмный Властелин

[DvDivXXX]

11 minutes ago, Тёмный Властелин said:

I highly doubt in that number. It's more likely something about 7 epic orbs. But that is an object for further investigation.

Yeah, this seems optimistic to me as well. Maybe Jelom has access to stats from his club mates and a better sample size. In my case, I've had exactly 1 daily mission with an orb reward so far, and I collected 4 orbs from villains in over 200 battles.

Apart from that, I very much agree with Jelom's feedback, and I appreciate that someone who isn't directly impacted by the champion issue is showing support to those who are.

[Antimon]

1 ora fa, Тёмный Властелин ha scritto:

I highly doubt in that number. It's more likely something about 7 epic orbs. But that is an object for further investigation.

 

1 ora fa, DvDivXXX ha scritto:

Yeah, this seems optimistic to me as well. Maybe Jelom has access to stats from his club mates and a better sample size. In my case, I've had exactly 1 daily mission with an orb reward so far, and I collected 4 orbs from villains in over 200 battles.

Apart from that, I very much agree with Jelom's feedback, and I appreciate that someone who isn't directly impacted by the champion issue is showing support to those who are.

Well, considering my experience, I find Jelom's estimation plausible. Since thursday I got in my HH account 8 epicx1 orbs, 4 from missions (1 thursday, 2 friday, 1 saturday) and 4 from free troll fights (1 friday, 1 saturday, 2 today), and I got 6 in my GH account, 1 from mission (friday) and 5 from free troll fights (1 thursday, 1 friday, 2 saturday, 1 today)

Of course there's the possibility I was in the lucky end (even extremely lucky end, to the point yesterday I considered sending a ticket for a possible bug concerning orbs obtained from troll fights, since the first 2 orbs in HH and the first 3 in GH that I got through troll fights gave me girls/guys), and my personal sample is ridiculously small, but if I had to take a wild guess, I probably would have said 10 orbs/week on average, too.

Edited February 16, 2020 by Antimon

[windia]

regarding the "energy for a specific scene" question:

Any requirement above 35 energy for just one scene is not so much liked by myself - because 60 energy gap (to 100) implies to be offline (aka sleep) less then 7,5  hours in case of not missing energy.

Edited February 16, 2020 by windia

[jelom]

2 hours ago, Тёмный Властелин said:

How did you get those numbers? What's the math? Why is it 1-2 more levels to get the girl? And what about 5 more levels for 3% of the people? Why 5 levels? Why 3%?

You can get the percentage of people needing additional levels using this page https://homepage.divms.uiowa.edu/~mbognar/applets/bin.html

About the orbs drop percentage in villains and the appearance rate in daily missions it is obviously a gross estimation, we still don't have enough data.

[Тёмный Властелин]

31 minutes ago, jelom said:

You can get the percentage of people needing additional levels using this page https://homepage.divms.uiowa.edu/~mbognar/applets/bin.html

Can you explain how to use it so I can get the numbers you posted?

[LanceHardwood]

9 hours ago, jelom said:

The loss of money in leagues and for champion tickets is partially compensated selling the objects you can get playing the orbs in the pachinko.

No, just ... no. Any suggestion that Pachinko can somehow compensate the money loss is simply incorrect.

Even 10 Epic orbs in best case scenario (legendary equipment) cannot compensate the millions lost. And on average players will be very far from that best case scenario since there are more non-equipment items in the pool, which can be sold for max 100k per best affection item, don't even get me started on boosts which are next to worthless when it comes to money. What's worse, the very little you can recoup by selling said items, is completely irrelevant to the introduced need for more cash to upgrade the newly acquired girls. To sum it up - an opportunity to obtain more high quality girls is created, but at the same time the necessary ingredients for taking advantage of them are significantly mitigated. What use do I have even for a 100 new girls if I can barely upgrade just a few of them ?

[Antimon]

3 ore fa, jelom ha scritto:

About the orbs drop percentage in villains and the appearance rate in daily missions it is obviously a gross estimation, we still don't have enough data.

About this, do you think it could be of any use a topic like the one for sharing shard drop info?

I was thinking something like "x epic pachinko orbs in y battles ; w epic pachinko orbs from missions in z days (0/3 in a days; 1/3 in b days; 2/3 in c days; 3/3 in d days)"

[Karyia]

31 minutes ago, LanceHardwood said:

No, just ... no. Any suggestion that Pachinko can somehow compensate the money loss is simply incorrect.

Even 10 Epic orbs in best case scenario (legendary equipment) cannot compensate the millions lost. And on average players will be very far from that best case scenario since there are more non-equipment items in the pool, which can be sold for max 100k per best affection item, don't even get me started on boosts which are next to worthless when it comes to money. What's worse, the very little you can recoup by selling said items, is completely irrelevant to the introduced need for more cash to upgrade the newly acquired girls. To sum it up - an opportunity to obtain more high quality girls is created, but at the same time the necessary ingredients for taking advantage of them are significantly mitigated. What use do I have even for a 100 new girls if I can barely upgrade just a few of them ?

Well, technically what Jelom said is right... it does partially compensate it 😅 He didn't say how much 😜

I agree more with you... but I'm guessing we're talking very different realities here.... whoever has a huge harem with most of the girls maxed and already generates lots of $, and just has to upgrade the few girls that they keep adding, they shouldn't have much problems.

To people who are still growing their harem and have most of the girls to upgrade, well.... we're (or should be) in trouble (at the very least, in the short term)! 😒

 

Also, some things that have been said and I would like to re-suggest/highlight:

- the patches should be previously communicated before being implemented (example, notes on Monday, implementation on Wednesday);

- a few of the changes that have been more impactful and have been more troublesome lately, have been made worse but lack of communication and the... dreaded "they went for the weekend". This should also be addressed, if possible. Sometimes, it's a bit troubling that it doesn't seem to be much worry about whatever happens regarding the patch's implementation.

 

And a bold one...

It the champions feature has been SO compromised, then well... let there be a new (or reviewed) one  🙄😝 

In my case, any interest in it has gone out the window. 😔

Though I expect something will be done about it, sooner than later 🙏 

[DvDivXXX]

59 minutes ago, LanceHardwood said:

What use do I have even for a 100 new girls if I can barely upgrade just a few of them ?

I kind of see where you're coming from, but I have to vehemently disagree, on that (well, your whole post above, honestly, but this one line sums up the absurd perspective you seem to have adopted about this). As much as you were right about the champion issue being introduced, I think you need to take a step back and seriously reconsider what you're saying here. You're basically saying that Ymens are as important, if not more important, than girls. That's just madness, even for non-veterans such as myself who have to manage their Ymen income very tightly.

It took me about two months to be able to upgrade Mizuki to her 5th star, almost as much for Keiko's, and now I'm slowly working towards Any's 5th star (I'm still a few weeks away). I wouldn't give any of them back, though, and I'm very very glad that I acquired them (especially Any, now that they extended the champions' grind and considering Visor might be the hardest to beat). And I have plenty of other girls in my harem that are sitting pretty at 1 or even 0 star. I'm still glad I have them. They still increase my income and Ego, and they hold the potential for more progress as I go. Haremettes are the most important "resource" in the game. It's okay if you can't get the maximum out of them right away, or even if you need to work for it over time. It's an integral part of the game, as far as I'm concerned. I'd take your 100 new girls over the amount of Ymens they'd require to upgrade any day of the week!

Also, at least for the leagues, the change only affects players who promote to the next league or, in the case of D3, players who are already at the very top of the competitive side of the game. Players in lower leagues don't promote all the time (or at least they shouldn't), and players who routinely finish top 15 in D3 are probably not wanting for basic resources, especially not Ymens. For the vast majority of players (as Jelom pointed out), the rewards will stay the same, except every now and then when they're strong enough to move up to the next league.

These are mostly good changes. And I'm saying that as someone who just dumbly promoted to D3 on my very first week in D2, and did get orbs instead of the Ymens I counted on. ^^ I also got more kobans, and next week once I demote back to D2, I'll just make sure to stay away from top 15, and I'll be just fine. This just gives more options, except maybe for people already at the very top of the food chain (top 15 of D3).

If they hadn't completely destroyed the consistency of champions in the process, I'd be mostly excited about this patch. Orbs themselves are awesome. They're not just worth nearly destroying the chances of players to collect the champions' main prizes. Let's not get side-tracked by looking for other issues in the changes that are mostly positive.

Edited February 16, 2020 by DvDivXXX

[LanceHardwood]

2 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

I kind of see where you're coming from, but I have to vehemently disagree, on that (well, your whole post above, honestly, but this one line sums up the absurd perspective you seem to have adopted about this). As much as you were right about the champion issue being introduced, I think you need to take a step back and seriously reconsider what you're saying here. You're basically saying that Ymens are as important, if not more important, than girls. That's just madness, even for non-veterans such as myself who have to manage their Ymen income very tightly.

It took me about two months to be able to upgrade Mizuki to her 5th star, almost as much for Keiko's, and now I'm slowly working towards Any's 5th star (I'm still a few weeks away). I wouldn't give any of them back, though, and I'm very very glad that I acquired them (especially Any, now that they extended the champions' grind and considering Visor might be the hardest to beat). And I have plenty of other girls in my harem that are sitting pretty at 1 or even 0 star. I'm still glad I have them. They still increase my income and Ego, and they hold the potential for more progress as I go. Haremettes are the most important "resource" in the game. It's okay if you can't get the maximum out of them right away, or even if you need to work for it over time. It's an integral part of the game, as far as I'm concerned. I'd take your 100 new girls over the amount of Ymens they'd require to upgrade any day of the week!

Also, at least for the leagues, the change only affects players who promote to the next league or, in the case of D3, players who are already at the very top of the competitive side of the game. Players in lower leagues don't promote all the time (or at least they shouldn't), and players who routinely finish top 15 in D3 are probably not wanting for basic resources, especially not Ymens. For the vast majority of players (as Jelom pointed out), the rewards will stay the same, except every now and then when they're strong enough to move up to the next league.

These are mostly good changes. And I'm saying that as someone who just dumbly promoted to D3 on my very first week in D2, and did get orbs instead of the Ymens I counted on. ^^ I also got more kobans, and next week once I demote back to D2, I'll just make sure to stay away from top 15, and I'll be just fine. This just gives more options, except maybe for people already at the very top of the food chain (top 15 of D3).

If they hadn't completely destroyed the consistency of champions in the process, I'd be mostly excited about this patch. Orbs themselves are awesome. They're not just worth nearly destroying the chances of players to collect the champions' main prizes. Let's not get side-tracked by looking for other issues in the changes that are mostly positive.

I exaggerated to make a point. On to your arguments - you just named the 3 best Know-How girls in the game, of course you wouldn't give them back if that's your specialty. But wouldn't you trade 1 or 2 new girls (probably epic at most) for being able to max out your preferred ones a month or more in advance. Especially considering that those 2-6 orbs might not even get you a girl at all. Girls without upgrades aren't really that consistent for cash inflow, because they give ~150k per week, which can barely put a dent in the upgrade cost unless you're willing to wait months per girl. And tbh, I'm more interested in unlocking scenes which is supposed to be one of the main draws in the game. The only thing I agree on is the Ego bonus, but even that comes at a price, as you have to invest in XP books for your girls.

Let me put it this way - a few specific girls for each class are more important than anything else, the rest is more or less padding for the harem. While everyone would like to have more, me included - it's not always preferable to money income, especially when the hit is this big. We already have other sources of orbs for that, that don't negate cash flow in the millions. They could always implement orbs as an additional reward in mystery boxes even. And though girls are the main resource, if most of your harem is without upgrades you practically have 25% income efficiency for them,  and 50% in battle stats, if you'd even use non-mains that way. It becomes very apparent in Champion fights actually, where the girls matching specific poses often have less than half the damage of your upgraded ones, unless you're vs same-specialty champ.

[Observer_X]

On 2/15/2020 at 1:03 PM, GeorgeMTO said:

Yes I am a monthly card holder. If that takes you 5 minutes though, I feel you're much too slow. In a previous discussion, a Nutaku user went and tested and found they can collect from 277 girls in about 2 minutes via the grid mode for what felt like their normal pace. It's even faster on HH, since you can use the tab button to scroll for you here. That player may be on the faster end, but that's still way too much of a difference considering they have ~50% more girls than you.

Just to define this, to start, the situation described by @DvDivXXX:

On 2/15/2020 at 2:31 PM, DvDivXXX said:

As far as I'm aware, this used to work but has been patched out some time before I started the game (I stumbled upon ye old threads about this at some point).

In my experience, you actually need to click each girl and scroll down manually with your mouse. You also need to not go too fast, as it can lag easily if your APM is too high, and some patterns work better than others (the worse is the most intuitive: from left to right on the same line). I use grid mode and typically go by column, top to bottom, as much as possible. When I need to go by line, I work my way from right to left. Sometimes I need to go back and click the same girl(s) again because it didn't register my initial click(s). It's a bit of a pain in the A.

Compared to when I had the blue button from the monthly subscription, I know for a fact I'm losing out on a decent amount of Ymens, because with the blue button you don't lose a single penny: whenever there's anything over 0, you click on it and done. Without it, I can't be bothered to open the Harem page until there's 100K or more to collect.

is exactly what I was referring to, as I am "victim" of this since I started playing the game. For me the tab scrolling was never an useable function: I tried to do exactly as you described in your answer to @DvDivXXX, and still I got no effect. Anyways, the five minutes I wrote was an estimation, so to be more precise I decided to try to time myself, so i used my smartphone chronometer function, starting with the first click on the first girl and ending when the money on the 184th girl flew out. The resulting time was 3 minutes, 27 seconds and 54 cents. This obviously does not include the 17 seconds and 39 cents that were necessary to open the harem page. Beware that I was also lucky to not have some non-registered click (a thing that happens to me nearly 50% of the times), so I didn't need to re-examine the harem (losing more time) in search of the missed dough (another thing that they could have easily implemented and never did: they put a light blue square around girls that have non-collected money in 3x4 grid mode on smartphones, making much more easier to avoid missed touches, but they never did the same in 4x5 grid mode). So my estimation of five minutes was not really miles away from the effective time.

On 2/15/2020 at 1:03 PM, GeorgeMTO said:

I don't see how your criticism of your expanded harem invalidates the point I made though. The extra stars mean with the same amount of clicks, you gather more money. It's a straight income increase with no extra demand on your time, as my comment was about extra stars on girls the players likely already had, not just obtaining extra girls.

You don't see it because that was not my point. I agree with you that more stars on the girls means a potential higher total income. My point was the problem generated by the difference in gathering money between a monthly card holder and a fully free player. I'll try to explain with an example. Beware that below I wish only to show my point, not to state something nearly absurd as a real game situation.

Suppose (by absurd) that there are two players like me, both with the same 184 girls and the same upgrades, but one with the monthly card (and thus the free gather), and the other without it (so forced like me to the manual gather). Suppose that the second player, to avoid being held in the harem screen too long, gather ymens every three hours, while the other with the free gather is calmly gathering every half hour. Suppose, again by absurd, just for reference, that both players play for a full 24 hours in this way. The authorized game script tells me that I have a little more than 320k ymen gain per hour, so let's use that number as a base. In an old post (I give my excuses to the author as I don't remember who he was) a player did some experimentation on ymen gathering, stating (if my memory serves me right) that gathering ymens every 30 minutes gives you nearly 90% of the possible treasure, while gathering over three hours reduces that percentage to around 50%. That means that at the end of the 24 hours, the monthly card holder of this example will have gathered around 6.9 millions ymens, while the player similar to me will be still at 3.8 millions, meaning a difference of more than 3 millions per day. And it was about this difference, which I consider relevant (and increases with the number of girls) that I was referring as my point, when I said that monthly card holders have more than a simple little advantage in the free gather.

On 2/15/2020 at 1:03 PM, GeorgeMTO said:

Well we've had the tier system for nearly two months. The moment you have a boss into the next tier you're earning more than you were before it (or maybe 10 battles in, once you're in the next level, minor difference). Yes, it does take time to get bosses like Dark Lord to "a decent amount", but it's still more than it was before the system was introduced. 

I consider this a difference in our yardsticks in judging the situation: it seem obvious to me that you consider two months of the tier feature a sufficient time, while simply IMHO it is not.

On 2/15/2020 at 1:03 PM, GeorgeMTO said:

Several increases added in for all players, so they've shuffled slightly and reduced how much we gain from other systems. Do note that the orb system itself is also an increase in some areas, as epic pachinko orbs from daily missions/boss drops will likely yield far more value than the cash/item you would've received in its place. I think we can't be certain it's a reduction for newer players just yet, let alone a vastly detrimental reduction.

This slides on another matter (although this is more personal than general) that beforehand requires I ask for a favor: could you correct me if my next question is wrong? This time I am the one that has not enough time to search among old patch notes (should someone make an index of those one day, would undoubtedly receive my thanks), and, as you probably can imagine, my experience in Epic Pachinko is quite lacking.
The question is: do I remember correctly if I say that when one have the luck to obtain a girl with Epic Pachinko x1, the reroll option is not available?

Edited February 17, 2020 by Observer_X

[GeorgeMTO]

16 minutes ago, Observer_X said:

is exactly what I was referring to, as I am "victim" of this since I started playing the game. For me the tab scrolling was never an useable function: I tried to do exactly as you described in your answer to @DvDivXXX, and still I got no effect. Anyways, the five minutes I wrote was an estimation, so to be more precise I decided to try to time myself, so i used my smartphone chronometer function, starting with the first click on the first girl and ending when the money on the 184th girl flew out. The resulting time was 3 minutes, 27 seconds and 54 cents. This obviously does not include the 17 seconds and 39 cents that were necessary to open the harem page. Beware that I was also lucky to not have some non-registered click (a thing that happens to me nearly 50% of the times), so I didn't need to re-examine the harem (losing more time) in search of the missed dough (another thing that they could have easily implemented and never did: they put a light blue square around girls that have non-collected money in 3x4 grid mode on smartphones, making much more easier to avoid missed touches, but they never did the same in 4x5 grid mode). So my estimation of five minutes was not really miles away from the effective time.

If you didn't get it to work, I feel that's user error, as I did it, and following my instructions two more people were also able to use the TAB button to save them from scrolling, while still having to click. It does work.

I never said your 5 minutes was miles away from the estimation. Just that you are slow if you take that long, again, backed up by another user testing it and being faster for less girls. I understand these features are worse for you because you are slow at parts of them, but that is not necessarily the average. Again, tab scrolling would save time for you trying to find girls since it skips to them, I really do recommend trying again to get it to work.

24 minutes ago, Observer_X said:

You don't see it because that was not my point. I agree with you that more stars on the girls means a potential higher total income. My point was the problem generated by the difference in gathering money between a monthly card holder and a fully free player.

Oh. I wasn't aware you were making such a distinction, because that was irrelevant to what I considered the topic at hand: Ymen income has been increased over the last several months. It increased the income for those with and without a monthly card. Yes paying players get more, but don't focus on what you don't have, focus on what you do.

26 minutes ago, Observer_X said:

I consider this a difference in our yardsticks in judging the situation: it seem obvious to me that you consider two months of the tier feature a sufficient time, while simply IMHO it is not.

I did not say it was increased enough to cover for the loss. Your income is increased the MOMENT you start fighting a boss in a higher level than before the tier system allowed. By a lot? God no. But increased, yes. If you haven't fought any of the bosses in a higher tier yet, then sure you haven't increased your income [although I question how since there's been a LOT of event girls on Dark Lord/Donatien], but you do have the potential to do so for future events.
Yes it takes time to scale up the income, but if they give us 12 months on the system, it's not a reasonable comparison to say that feature has allowed us to increase our income enough to accomodate for the loss, because many people will have had their income stabilise over that time period. As it is, we've had time to get a small increase, and we can continue to improve that increase with future events.

35 minutes ago, Observer_X said:

This slides on another matter (although this is more personal than general) that beforehand requires I ask for a favor: could you correct me if my next question is wrong? This time I am the one that has not enough time to search among old patch notes (should someone make an index of those one day, would undoubtedly receive my thanks), and, as you probably can imagine, my experience in Epic Pachinko is quite lacking.
The question is: do I remember correctly if I say that when one have the luck to obtain a girl with Epic Pachinko x1, the reroll option is not available?

Reroll is only available on the x10 roll to the best of my knowledge. I haven't obtained a girl from a single since it was added so I can't verify for myself, but comments from others have said they didn't get to.

[Karyia]

3 hours ago, Observer_X said:

The question is: do I remember correctly if I say that when one have the luck to obtain a girl with Epic Pachinko x1, the reroll option is not available?

 

2 hours ago, GeorgeMTO said:

Reroll is only available on the x10 roll to the best of my knowledge. I haven't obtained a girl from a single since it was added so I can't verify for myself, but comments from others have said they didn't get to.

 

No reroll option.

You get a (random) girl straight up.

[~Crown Clown]

1 hour ago, Karyia said:

 

 

No reroll option.

You get a (random) girl straight up.

Yeah no reroll

[~Crown Clown]

10 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

And I'm saying that as someone who just dumbly promoted to D3 on my very first week in D2, and did get orbs instead of the Ymens I counted on. ^^ I also got more kobans, and next week once I demote back to D2, I'll just make sure to stay away from top 15, and I'll be just fine. This just gives more options, except maybe for people already at the very top of the food chain (top 15 of D3)

Dang, you got strong really fast dv, what happened xd

I thought you're worried about top 45 d2 but lmao you even promoted😆😆

[Leo_le_Salomo]

its my subectiv feeling, but i think the drop chance for tickets by the villains got raised. If its realy so its ok that i get now in the arena the mythic orb

[DvDivXXX]

10 hours ago, LanceHardwood said:

I exaggerated to make a point.

I get that, and so did I to an extent (well, not really, I would take 100 new girls over a billion Ymens). The thing is that your point itself is a stretch, and I disagree with it. Beyond the real value of random 3-star epics from another class that are a pain to upgrade for a slow ROI, the main thing that counters your point is the part about only the top 15 places in each (relevant) league getting orbs instead of Ymens. Again, apart from the absolute top dogs in the game who are already "stuck" in D3's top 15, this will affect next to nobody on a normal week. Okay, there's one specific strategy that some players used until now (a 2-week cycle of winning your league then demoting on purpose) that will arguably become much less appealing now. But even those players can adjust as they see fit. If, say, Shal decides he prefers a bit less kobans overall to ensure millions of Ymens instead of a few orbs, he can easily switch from winning his D2, tanking in D3, rinse and repeat, to simply finish top 30 in D2 every week (and it'll cost him less in boosters and less efforts, so it might be worth it). It's not like this change affected anyone in a difficult league situation, is what I'm saying. On the contrary.

Again: the vast majority of players will keep getting the same rewards in league as before this change. And most of those who are affected are in strong position in league anyway, so I'm not too worried about them. So this change is hardly an issue at all, in the big picture. It's not like they removed ALL Ymen rewards from the leagues for everybody.

Edited February 17, 2020 by DvDivXXX

[blaa]

18 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

 Okay, there's one specific strategy that some players used until now (a 2-week cycle of winning your league then demoting on purpose) that will arguably become much less appealing now. But even those players can adjust as they see fit.

 

yeah, I am one of these players, but honestly, I never did it because of the YMENS, they arent really needed if you do this strategy from d2/d3 - it always was because of the kobans, and honestly I wouldnt have been surprised if they would have lowered the koban price instead the ymen, but then again, i am very grateful for that. I wont change this strategy, in fact, I will embrace it even more, I like getting orbs and with them the chance to get a pachinko only event girl.

edit: Which means I will most likely save them till my epic-pachinko-pool is way more empty than he already is and go out if there are some nice event girls in the epic pachinko.

Edited February 17, 2020 by blaa

[Noacc]

Hey, guys.
I've posted this on discord and will post it on the patch notes. 

Due to recent community feedback, we've re-balanced the Girls from Champions to be obtainable before the Pachinko Orbs.

[GeorgeMTO]

6 minutes ago, Noacc said:

Hey, guys.
I've posted this on discord and will post it on the patch notes.

Due to recent community feedback, we've re-balanced the Girls from Champions to be obtainable before the Pachinko Orbs.

Clarity for everyone else: This is not guaranteed. It's just now the more likely outcome. It's still a worse situation than it was before the patch.