PvP (Leagues) Isn't "Secondary". It's Central and Brokenly Imbalanced! How About a Fix?

[_shal_]

14 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

I'm really glad to hear that! And thanks for your reply. Your proposal sounds pretty solid to me.

The only thing I would consider changing is for the really low brackets, as going from Level 1 to Level 150 takes like a week now (if that) due to the massive early XP boost from one of the late 2019 patches, so I'm not sure it's worth having dedicated brackets below Level 150 at all.

Well, there are quite a lot of ultra-casual players who don't move up nearly as quickly as it's possible. But true, I was just quickly eyeballing the XP numbers from missions and league, which will give something like 20 level-ups in a week between levels 50 and 100, so I figured multiple tiers are already needed there. I'm not sure how much is being added by story XP during that early period of one's playtime; it's potentially a lot for people who avail themselves of all the early world bundles with thousands of energy points to rush through the story (which I'm pretty sure is necessary to get those 500,000+ XP scores we see atop the weekly XP standings), but it may be much less significant if done only with free energy. I just haven't tested that.

[Lemus]

@DvDivXXX, take my hat off to you. There was a desire to create a similar theme, but in my case the laziness and language barrier was stronger than me).

The tower is really broken. I feel sorry for the newcomers, who look at these beautiful prizes and realize that they will never, ever get them. It's morally depressing. And then they realize that going to a higher league is not always good. That you have to tank, watch your scores and do other nonsense with a calculator to be effective in the tower. It's the brain floating.

If you do it right, the tower needs to be completely redesigned, disconnected from the mechanics of the arena battles, do something completely new, so that a new player could start competing with the old players in a few months. But I doubt that there are resources for that. It's hard to do.

I was thinking about a concept that could improve the situation with minimal changes, and that's what came to mind.

1. The minimum reward of the league that is higher is always better than the maximum reward of the league that is lower.
2. three levels of awards in the league - 1-15 (the winners go to the higher league), 16-85 (stay in the current league), 86+ (go to the lower league).
3. "Tower bonus." For every 10 battles in a tower (regardless of victories or defeats) a player gets a bronze star that gives +1% of the combat characteristics. 10 bronze stars = 1 silver (+10%), 10 silver stars = 1 gold (+100%) and so on. This bonus burns when moving from league to league.
4. Once in the top 15 of the last league, the player gets a "super prize" and goes to the starting league to conquer the tower again.

I think the point is clear. The tower stops being static and any player sooner or later gets to its top receiving the main prize. Yes, high level players will be more frequent, but it's clear that not every week. I understand that the idea is not perfect, but as a kind of compromise that can be implemented quickly enough without changing the game radically, I think it's quite good.

[DvDivXXX]

2 hours ago, _shal_ said:

but it may be much less significant if done only with free energy. I just haven't tested that. 

I have, and it's insanely fast, even for casuals. You earn levels so quickly, it's easy to miss the market refill in between if you don't stop the adventure to buy your books then go back. Just in the few days of (very casually) testing out the last LC, I went from 50 to 71, and I'm still in the 3rd World. My last few slides of the adventure gave me 235 XP for 4 Energy, 469 XP for 8 Energy, and 586 XP for 10 Energy, respectively. Daily missions grant 712 XP for Epic, 475 XP for Rare, 237 XP for the 4-5 minute Commons (and 47 XP for the +/- 1 minute ones). The Arena Daily Quest gives 1779 XP. And the XP requirement for the next level is still in the 4k ballpark.

[_shal_]

Oh, I completely blanked on the arena reward.

Maybe the real solution would be to increase the minimum level required to play in the leagues at all; the current minimum of 20 was set back when it still took nearly a week to get there.

[Karyia]

On 6/21/2020 at 7:07 PM, _shal_ said:

One other thing I would change is to give the same XP for wins and losses. Again this would be intended as an anti-tanking measure, rewarding people just for being as active as they can be, and at as high a tier as they can be (since a higher tier would likely mean higher-level opponents and thus more XP for every battle, win or lose). It would also go a long way towards avoiding the current issue that players who consistently finish in the middle of the pack keep losing levels relative to the more successful players.

@_shal_, I'm pretty ok with everything you said (not sure about exact values and so on...) but this one... wouldn't this turn the fight outcome a bit meritless? Wouldn't the rushers/token users be (now more) rewarded by just simply playing (randomly and furiously)? IMO, I think a win should be different from a loss (even if by a small margin, 55/45, 60/40, whatever...), just to make a distinction.

And wouldn't this also affect the xp (related) contests? I mean, if everyone just plays and scores about the same... (I might be missing something...?)

 

Also:

- would changing the promotions/demotions to either 10 or 20 help either way (in a competitive manner)?

- new brackets seem to have been created (according to Lola's post), so that helps I guess, in terms of bracketing/segments.

 

3 hours ago, Lemus said:

4. Once in the top 15 of the last league, the player gets a "super prize" and goes to the starting league to conquer the tower again.

I had suggest something like this, and if nothing else, seems like a possibility to me. If not directly, at least every "x" something/times, reboot to lowest tier. (how else to give (more) people a shot at winning or even top spots?)

If not this way, then maybe a % reduction to stats for "x" consecutive wins/top 4/top 15?

[DvDivXXX]

3 hours ago, _shal_ said:

Maybe the real solution would be to increase the minimum level required to play in the leagues at all; the current minimum of 20 was set back when it still took nearly a week to get there.

That's actually what I meant by "I'm not sure it's worth having dedicated brackets below Level 150 at all" I meant that 150 could be the minimum level required to enter the new PvP system. Maybe my phrasing was confusing because you have brackets and tiers in your plan, so it sounded like I wanted to simplify the system below that level, rather than removing it completely. 150 is seriously the new 20 in terms of how fast you can reach that with a brand-new account these days: one week.

Still, you might be right that there are really casual players out there who could take it extra slow even at the beginning when you basically level up anytime you click anything. We could settle for Level 100 as the minimum requirement. Even ultra-casuals won't take more than a week for that, I think (and those who do probably won't notice the Tower of Fame until they reach that level anyway).

1 hour ago, Karyia said:

@_shal_, I'm pretty ok with everything you said (not sure about exact values and so on...) but this one... wouldn't this turn the fight outcome a bit meritless? Wouldn't the rushers/token users be (now more) rewarded by just simply playing (randomly and furiously)? IMO, I think a win should be different from a loss (even if by a small margin, 55/45, 60/40, whatever...), just to make a distinction.

And wouldn't this also affect the xp (related) contests? I mean, if everyone just plays and scores about the same... (I might be missing something...?)

This would only affect XP, not how many points you score, though. It would remove the double punishment when you reach a division you can't win any fights in (virtually no rewards at the end, and up to 5 times less XP along the way), and also make it less appealing to stick to or even demote to a weaker division than you should be in, if you still at least keep leveling up at the same rate even if you struggle to get good ranks. It wouldn't make a loss as valuable as a win in terms of points, and consequently in terms of ranks and ultimately in terms of rewards. So I think this is a good idea.

Why would it reward people who rush, let alone people who do battles in bulk (aka without applying any strategy / just to get rid of it ASAP)? Their individual fights would still have the same outcomes, and they would score exactly the same in terms of points. They just wouldn't miss out on XP for their losses, same as everybody else.

I don't think satellite things like Contests should really be considered for balancing the main PvP system itself. If anything, Contests should get a little make-over of their own eventually (more specifically, they should remove Donation-based ones, that's just lame, and probably consolidate each group of duplicates with a marginal nuance into a shorter list of actually different Contests: Level up your Hero, Level up your Harem, Fight Trolls, Play Pachinko, that's it). Besides, this wouldn't change much for the XP-based Contests: it would simply take the number of PvP wins out of the equation; if someone wants to spend kobans to gain more XP that specific day by doing more PvP fights, that's still on the table.

@Lemus Thanks for your kind words and for your proposal. I find it interesting, but honestly it seems a bit too complex to me, and I'm not sure it would end up being more balanced than other ideas thrown in so far. Same for Karyia's variation. If we're altering stats, I'd rather go all the way and make it so that all players in a given group have the same base stats (my proposal 2A in the OP, or a variation on it).

Edited June 22, 2020 by DvDivXXX

[Karyia]

11 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

Why would it reward people who rush, let alone people who do battles in bulk (aka without applying any strategy / just to get rid of it ASAP)?

I mentioned token users... for example, they'll do 110 fights to my 100, and get more xp even if they lose 80 battles and I lose 50 (or I win 50 and they win 30, if you prefer).

 

12 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

it would simply take the number of PvP wins out of the equation; if someone wants to spend kobans to gain more XP that specific day by doing more PvP fights, that's still on the table.

Exactly. Winning is not important. Tokens are, or rather, being active is... but between similar active players, tokens/extra playing or alike will be the difference?

 

[DvDivXXX]

8 minutes ago, Karyia said:

I mentioned token users... for example, they'll do 110 fights to my 100, and get more xp even if they lose 80 battles and I lose 50 (or I win 50 and they win 30, if you prefer).

Exactly. Winning is not important. Tokens are, or rather, being active is... but between similar active players, tokens/extra playing or alike will be the difference?

 

Oh, I see, I thought you meant people who use the "do these 15 fights randomly for me" button initially, but you meant people who refill their tokens in general.

Well, both of those things are already a reality. That is: people spending kobans to make more fights than possible in large groups sometimes, and people spending kobans and doing all sorts of shenanigans to win a daily contest. Neither would change.

And no, again we're talking about giving the same XP, not the same points. You know, when you play a league battle right now, there are two results at the end? For instance, if you make a "perfect win" then you score 25 POINTS, but if you make a "perfect loss", then you only score 3 POINTS. This would not change in Shal's proposal. It's the other number that would change: instead of getting 250-ish XP when you win, and only 50-ish when you lose, you'd get the same amount either way (maybe something like 150-ish?). This wouldn't change how well you do in the league, it would only make it so that how well you do in the league doesn't directly impact how fast you level up.

Edited June 22, 2020 by DvDivXXX
clarification

[_shal_]

2 hours ago, Karyia said:

@_shal_, I'm pretty ok with everything you said (not sure about exact values and so on...) but this one... wouldn't this turn the fight outcome a bit meritless? Wouldn't the rushers/token users be (now more) rewarded by just simply playing (randomly and furiously)? IMO, I think a win should be different from a loss (even if by a small margin, 55/45, 60/40, whatever...), just to make a distinction.

In addition to the clarifications that @DvDivXXX already offered, I'll add that my thinking is basically this: In a lot of other games, what's being called "level" or similar is often a fairly direct reflection of your skill as a player. That's a lot less relevant here in HH - a large part of your level is simply a reflection of how long you've been playing and how active you were during that time. Prior to the introduction of leagues it was even more true (fixed XP from story and missions, minimal variable amounts from arena). And while the original idea of using leagues to introduce a merit component was IMHO worthwhile, it really hasn't worked out too well in the long run because - as this thread attests to - it leads to basically permanent PvP advantages for those who scored more XP in the past, even if they're no longer the actual best players.

The only way to fix that for old players is a hard level cap, but it's also worthwhile to not even let it become an issue for newer players, and for that reason I think it would be good to go back to the old system of XP as simply a measure of your playing activity. Especially now that another variable component (arena) has already bit the dust.
 

2 hours ago, Karyia said:

And wouldn't this also affect the xp (related) contests? I mean, if everyone just plays and scores about the same... (I might be missing something...?)

To be honest, I wouldn't be sad to see XP gone completely as a contest goal.

[Kenrae]

Thanks @DvDivXXX for your post, it's well thought and raises a lot of good points (from you or other people commenting). I'd like to add something else.
A good PvP system, in order to be fun, needs at least two things: One is balance, which you're all discussing, and the other is tactical options, so that there are multiple possibilities. Right now, if you made a balanced league but didn't change anything else we could have a boring system, specially at the end game, because everybody would use the same strategy. Most top players are KH, there's a single girl who is objectively better than the rest in 99% of the situations, and a handful of other who are equally good and objectively better than the rest.
So, I'm going to comment on this, which should be done at the same time and thought as a whole revamp, IMHO.

By the way, I'm commeting from the point of view of someone who isn't on the top but is high enough to have fun. I'm level 428, I have zero wins but many 2-4 positions on D3, and I've never demoted (I always end better than 10 no matter what and I find that boring and absurd anyway so I'm not going to do it). I've been able to finish 15 in a season without using legendary boosts, just a mix of normal, rare and epic I had sitting idle in my stash.

• You should win some points, not many but maybe 10% total, from your performance in defense. It's different enough that having a deffensive setup and and offensive setup would make sense, and they could alter the mechanics so that it makes more sense. Of course after something like that they should let us define offensive setup and defensive setup in the UI, instead of constantly switching.
• There should be a reason to change which girls you use on every matchup, depending on who you're battling. Maybe increase the girl importance on defense so that you switch depending on speciality. Maybe change the mechanics so that a girl is better against a specific girl, but not so much against another. You could make it depend on positions, have some positions have an advantage against another, but a disadvantage against a third. I'm sure we could think of other options.
• Give more importance to beta and omega girls, and differences between them. You could make their defense depend on the secondary and terciary stat instead of the main stat, you could add their position to the trigger so that you try to have three girls with three different positions, things like that. You could increase their importance once they enter the battle, something like multiplied by x1.1 and x1.2, so that sometimes it's better to have the better girl on beta or omega instead of alpha, it's not a clear cut.
• More work needs to be done to balance KH, HC and CH. I have a small suggestion that I think would help in this post: https://forum.hentaiheroes.com/index.php?/topic/172-ideas-main/&page=23&tab=comments#comment-187820, but I'm sure we can come up with many more ideas. Maybe they could add a 4th option, harmony, that would have balanced stats, but then you would need to have harmony girls too and new math. I don't see Kinkoid doing that work :P.

I'm sure we can think of many more ideas but the basics are that we need balance AND (sensible) options.

[ricardomagno]

this is a great post and I am here to keep this alive, we need to make some changes to the current league system, I already made a related comment before but nobody cares about it since it is a minority who suffer from this, I am currently level 399 and the only way I can find to get something significant in the league is down and up every week, getting 7k or 3k on D1, 4k or 11k on D2, or just 1K on D3. If we level up the reward will go up, but if you reach 350/420 you will not get anything good for moving up in the league. this is not how it's supposed to work.

If anyone wants, I invite you to read what I previously published

[DvDivXXX]

1 hour ago, ricardomagno said:

this is a great post and I am here to keep this alive

Thanks, much appreciated.

1 hour ago, ricardomagno said:

nobody cares about it since it is a minority who suffer from this

No, it's the opposite: a minority is benefiting from the current system. A majority of players are negatively impacted by the extremely strong imbalance in favor of high-level players.

1 hour ago, ricardomagno said:

I am currently level 399 and the only way I can find to get something significant in the league is down and up every week, getting 7k or 3k on D1, 4k or 11k on D2, or just 1K on D3.

Strategic advice aside (perhaps in another thread, though), I'm sorry to break it to you, but in terms of koban gains, you are actually in the minority that benefits from the current system. You're not at the top of the food chain by any means, but you're still better off than most players. And you also contribute de facto to the exponential imbalance of power in terms of XP and levels (I'm not implying you're doing it on purpose or that you're part of the problem; you're just doing what you think is best for you in this system, and this system is grossly imbalanced, and that imbalance is only growing over time).

In contrast, I'm 50-ish levels behind you right now, and my options in terms of koban gains in the league are basically to either stagnate in D2's top 30 (not spending kobans, but missing out on XP), as I was doing for months until very recently, or to fight tooth and nails for D3's top 30 (spending tons of kobans but gaining a lot more XP), as I've been doing for three weeks now. In both cases, I earn a lot less kobans in league than you do. Even if I wanted to (which I don't anymore), I simply don't have the option to demote back to D1 and steal lower-level players' #1 prize, because if I did I would be facing half a dozen players like you who did the same thing and I wouldn't have a fighting chance against them, so I'd walk away from a whole week of skipping the league with a miserable top 15 or top 4 in D1 on the other week, and that's even worse than stagnating in D2's top 30.

Meanwhile, there are players who haven't finished a single league at a lower rank than #4 in D3 for many months, well over a year for some. And even if there are very good and tactical players among them, the big problem is that it makes less difference than the simple fact that they have a lot more XP than the rest of the field, and they keep gaining more XP each week, so it's impossible for anyone outside of their range to ever catch up. And again (although I explained this previously in this thread), it's not their fault, they're just lucky enough to be in a position where the system's imbalance makes them virtually untouchable, and showers them with kobans and XP as long as they're at least decent players.

[_shal_]

27 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

Strategic advice aside (perhaps in another thread, though), I'm sorry to break it to you, but in terms of koban gains, you are actually in the minority that benefits from the current system. You're not at the top of the food chain by any means, but you're still better off than most players. (...)

Meanwhile, there are players who haven't finished a single league at a lower rank than #4 in D3 for many months, well over a year for some. And even if there are very good and tactical players among them, the big problem is that it makes less difference than the simple fact that they have a lot more XP than the rest of the field, and they keep gaining more XP each week, so it's impossible for anyone outside of their range to ever catch up. And again (although I explained this previously in this thread), it's not their fault, they're just lucky enough to be in a position where the system's imbalance makes them virtually untouchable, and showers them with kobans and XP as long as they're at least decent players.

Which brings up the interesting question: How many people who believe they would stand to benefit from a league change that makes things less level-dependent would actually end up worse off?  Over on Discord, I've seen people as high as (what would currently be) level ~430 complaining that they can't compete against the absolute top level players, but obviously these are people who mostly just suck without realizing it. And I've encountered even more players who truly do get victimized by their too-low level, but whose questionable gameplay outside of the leagues makes me suspect that they suck on top of that.

[DocJD]

I hate to say it but this whole discussion is a First World Problem. The vast majority of players, inclucing myself, never have occasion to interact at all with the kind of players obsessed with the D level Tower groups, which appears to be most of the posters in this thread. I would, however, like to propose a concept no one has mentioned (as far as I know) that I think would do some leveling of the playing field.

Just as the game keeps track of lifetime MOJO to try and keep the Arena opponents balanced, I think the game should keep track of Lifetime Kobans Spent and make sure you compete with other players of a similar game history, plus or minus.

There is no way to get around that (as you can in the Arena, by putting some lame girls on your team and purposely losing for a while). It would, to some extent, isolate the Pay to Play players from the Free ones who've been around for a similar length of time but it would also put newer Paying players up against more experienced Free ones instead of letting them squash Free Newbies. Big players who try to drop down a level in the Towers might end up competing against other Big players who also downgraded, so it won't be as easy to exploit the lesser players working their way up naturally, etc.

I'm sure you're all smart enough to see other implications of this. Think out of the box. Kinkoid would probably have to secretly track Koban spending for at least a few weeks, if not a month, before putting the system into place with chance of success.

[_shal_]

31 minutes ago, DocJD said:

I hate to say it but this whole discussion is a First World Problem. The vast majority of players, inclucing myself, never have occasion to interact at all with the kind of players obsessed with the D level Tower groups, which appears to be most of the posters in this thread.

That's an oddly myopic attitude. If you're a player who doesn't particularly care about his league performance at all, then your opinion unfortunately means nothing here. If you're a player who does care about his league performance but isn't concerned with the Dicktator competition because his hero level is just too low, then you're exactly the type of player that should be interested in league improvements that would prioritize player skill over account age.
 

31 minutes ago, DocJD said:

Just as the game keeps track of lifetime MOJO to try and keep the Arena opponents balanced, I think the game should keep track of Lifetime Kobans Spent and make sure you compete with other players of a similar game history, plus or minus.

There is no way to get around that (as you can in the Arena, by putting some lame girls on your team and purposely losing for a while). It would, to some extent, isolate the Pay to Play players from the Free ones who've been around for a similar length of time but it would also put newer Paying players up against more experienced Free ones instead of letting them squash Free Newbies.

A nice idea in theory, if it wasn't for the fact that much (maybe most) of the real money spending on the game is going towards obtaining resources other than kobans nowadays.
 

31 minutes ago, DocJD said:

I'm sure you're all smart enough to see other implications of this. Think out of the box. Kinkoid would probably have to secretly track Koban spending for at least a few weeks, if not a month, before putting the system into place with chance of success.

Do you not realize that the biggest beneficiaries of the current system largely don't even have to spend their kobans anymore? They're either close to finished obtaining all the girls, or they're so swamped with Epic Pachinko orbs that they can get the girls mostly just with those. Those players would certainly appreciate getting put into low-spender league groups. 

All that aside, you're trying to address a problem that doesn't exist. Most whale-type players who buy and spend a ton of kobans aren't actually very good at playing the game, and their presence plays only a minor role in the anti-competitive issues that the leagues are facing.

[Lemus]

Just the other day I was thinking about the tower and there was an idea that in order to somehow improve it without altering it, it is necessary to do a simple thing - to transfer to the next league not from 1-15 places, but from 1-4 places. I understand that this will not solve the problem as a whole, but at least somehow it will revive the gameplay and add a spirit of rivalry in leagues below d3.
I can compare the game as in the major league, where there is interest and excitement, and the game at the middle levels, where the player's task in the tower is not to try to win and become better than others, but on the contrary, God forbid, take a place above 16 and move to the next league, because in it he will be at the very bottom, will not be able to receive awards and experience. And so there will be at least some challenge and interest, and taking the first 4 places in the league will most likely be more or less ready to fight in the next one.

[jelom]

For the leagues I see two main points where it should be made adjustments: rewards for top and low places, and XP gained when win or lose   

As I see it, it is a problem of the date different players started the game.

Players who started in 2016 or 2017 should have reached level 430+ just by daily playing, so they are in a strong position in leagues.

Players that started in 2018 can still reach a good position levelwise if they have played optimally, and make good places in top leagues, but they still have forever a level gap that will decrease very slowly.

For people that started the game in 2019 is the biggest problem, they have gained levels fast for the first year, but have reached the XP ramp after level 350 where the XP for every new level is increasingly big, and they see there are still a giant distance in levels to be able to compete in the dicktator leagues, and that can leave to discouragement.

People that started in 2020 are still in the joy of gaining a lot of levels quick, dropping many tier1 girls in addition of event and revival girls, doing well in lower and intermediate leagues, so they can still be happy, because they cannot see what lies ahead.

In any case, the main objective of the game is getting all the girls, and playing for years in a requisite, although getting many kobans and orbs in top leagues helps a lot, of course. Take in mind that the rate at which one player get girls, levels and resources now is many times faster than in the old times when the game started.

I don't see a solution for the starting date problem, if you started late, there will always be a level gap due to that, and level will always have a weight in the battles.

[ricardomagno]

hace 10 horas, DvDivXXX dijo:

Thanks, much appreciated.

No, it's the opposite: a minority is benefiting from the current system. A majority of players are negatively impacted by the extremely strong imbalance in favor of high-level players.

Strategic advice aside (perhaps in another thread, though), I'm sorry to break it to you, but in terms of koban gains, you are actually in the minority that benefits from the current system. You're not at the top of the food chain by any means, but you're still better off than most players. And you also contribute de facto to the exponential imbalance of power in terms of XP and levels (I'm not implying you're doing it on purpose or that you're part of the problem; you're just doing what you think is best for you in this system, and this system is grossly imbalanced, and that imbalance is only growing over time).

In contrast, I'm 50-ish levels behind you right now, and my options in terms of koban gains in the league are basically to either stagnate in D2's top 30 (not spending kobans, but missing out on XP), as I was doing for months until very recently, or to fight tooth and nails for D3's top 30 (spending tons of kobans but gaining a lot more XP), as I've been doing for three weeks now. In both cases, I earn a lot less kobans in league than you do. Even if I wanted to (which I don't anymore), I simply don't have the option to demote back to D1 and steal lower-level players' #1 prize, because if I did I would be facing half a dozen players like you who did the same thing and I wouldn't have a fighting chance against them, so I'd walk away from a whole week of skipping the league with a miserable top 15 or top 4 in D1 on the other week, and that's even worse than stagnating in D2's top 30.

Meanwhile, there are players who haven't finished a single league at a lower rank than #4 in D3 for many months, well over a year for some. And even if there are very good and tactical players among them, the big problem is that it makes less difference than the simple fact that they have a lot more XP than the rest of the field, and they keep gaining more XP each week, so it's impossible for anyone outside of their range to ever catch up. And again (although I explained this previously in this thread), it's not their fault, they're just lucky enough to be in a position where the system's imbalance makes them virtually untouchable, and showers them with kobans and XP as long as they're at least decent players.

1282/5000

 

 

 

I think it was not understood what he means, when I refer to minority, I do not compare myself with the top or low levels, I mean those who are between certain levels that do not feel any improvement, if you win you only lose, I know that I am what worse of the best in general terms, but when you are level 100 and you pass the league, you have a clear goal ahead and only better things ahead. currently I play to be between 15 and 30 in D2 like you. And as you said, I have 50 more levels and it is the same that happens to you, I have to stop fighting to not pass. and if I see that I can be among the first 4, I try. That is the only difference.
I think giving high-level players a reason to play in their league is the priority today. like I said earlier, I can easily stay in D1. From my point of view, the minimum prize in D3 should be equivalent to 30-45 in D2, if you could get there, why should you win less if you improved. In the end, anyone who exceeds a level will be trapped with the top (lv450), with whom they can not even offer a fight unless you exceed level 420 jokes apart. even if it is modified to lower if you fall below the top 45 or something like that once you are in D3, I think it would be more reasonable than it is now.

(clarification after sent. I am aware that the difference between those who may have reached such high levels is only related to the year they started and that it is not something that can be overcome with the effort of someone new, and that is totally unfair in my opinion. I totally agree on that with what you say)

Edited September 15, 2020 by ricardomagno

[Kenrae]

1 hour ago, jelom said:

I don't see a solution for the starting date problem, if you started late, there will always be a level gap due to that, and level will always have a weight in the battles.

The level cap is a solution, but it's still far ahead. They shouldn't have increased it from 400 to 500.

I remember playing Marvel Avengers Alliance (the best f2p game ever, IMHO) and you reached the level cap in less than a year of daily playing. At that point the game became extremely interesting and fun if you wanted to compete on PvP, and the rest of the game continued being casual and also fun in its own way. They achieved the perfect balance of playing time needed to compete, you needed to play daily but not huge ammounts of time, instead you had to play intelligently. Being a whale only helped in needing less time, but it wasn't insurmountable. And there were many different strategic options that were equally valid, instead of everybody using the same class and characters because it's better than the rest, period.

[natstar]

35 minutes ago, Kenrae said:

The level cap is a solution, but it's still far ahead. They shouldn't have increased it from 400 to 500.

I remember playing Marvel Avengers Alliance (the best f2p game ever, IMHO) and you reached the level cap in less than a year of daily playing. At that point the game became extremely interesting and fun if you wanted to compete on PvP, and the rest of the game continued being casual and also fun in its own way. They achieved the perfect balance of playing time needed to compete, you needed to play daily but not huge ammounts of time, instead you had to play intelligently. Being a whale only helped in needing less time, but it wasn't insurmountable. And there were many different strategic options that were equally valid, instead of everybody using the same class and characters because it's better than the rest, period.

Gaining levels in this game is more for the free energy than for pvp so they are going to keep raising the level cap once enough people get to level 500 i am guessing.

[Kenrae]

52 minutes ago, natstar said:

Gaining levels in this game is more for the free energy than for pvp so they are going to keep raising the level cap once enough people get to level 500 i am guessing.

Giving free energy in this game is like giving one dolar to Bill Gates.

On the other hand, your position in PvP depends first and foremost on your level.

Edited September 15, 2020 by Kenrae

[natstar]

5 minutes ago, Kenrae said:

Giving free energy in this game is like giving one dolar to Bill Gates.

On the other hand, your position in PvP depends first and foremost on your level.

That is the thing though if they cared about pvp they would stop increasing the level cap and the people with the highest levels used kobans to refresh arena back when that gave exp as well and since arena does not give exp other people near their level cannot catch up.

Edited September 15, 2020 by natstar

[_shal_]

7 hours ago, natstar said:

That is the thing though if they cared about pvp they would stop increasing the level cap and the people with the highest levels used kobans to refresh arena back when that gave exp as well and since arena does not give exp other people near their level cannot catch up.

Not a single player was ever going to catch up on higher-level players via arena XP even when it was still "possible". Talk about barking up the completely wrong tree.

Edited September 15, 2020 by _shal_

[Fiel]

On 6/20/2020 at 11:32 AM, DvDivXXX said:

So, what's wrong, exactly?

Every single week, a dozen players (if that!) each receive well over 14k kobans (aka a jumbo-jet load), the equivalent of a free EPx10 (in orb form, so they can use it whenever they want), and the equivalent of 3 full-bar combativity refills (that they have to use immediately). Meanwhile, the remaining thousands of players each receive a virtual slap in the face, along with something around 1K kobans at best (aka a pittance). Every single damn week.

To be honest, some of us actually worked hard for those Koban and defied the higher level opponents against all odds.

These Kobans are Earned, not gifted. Here is a few examples:

https://imgur.com/llZp5K5

https://imgur.com/2mAngCj

10 hours ago, mikcris said:

Basically the way PvP is structured in HH today (especially in the Leagues) is "The winners will always be winners and the losers will always be losers"... it has been this way since the inception, so most of us got used to it. It is especially so in the upper leagues. I mean why do you think the upper leagues are called "Dicktator"!

This is bad thinking. It's not always the levels, everybody gets that phase where the biggest fish in the pond underestimate you, and then you strike with good planning and smart thinking and achieves that jumbo jet load of reward.

Edited September 15, 2020 by Fiel

[_shal_]

You're the 40th-highest player by XP on the whole server! Do tell us more about how hard you have to work to win one of the ~30 D3 brackets...