PvP (Leagues) Isn't "Secondary". It's Central and Brokenly Imbalanced! How About a Fix?

[Fiel]

1 hour ago, _shal_ said:

You're the 40th-highest player by XP on the whole server!

I used to be way lower than that actually due to dipping down to D2 at least a dozen times. My current placement is the result of replanning, rethinking, and reinvesting kobans into Arena, back when it was possible.

Also known as; better decision making. Some people will always make more profitable decisions than others, this is natural and unavoidable.

2 hours ago, _shal_ said:

Not a single player was ever going to catch up on higher-level players via arena XP even when it was still "possible".

I'm an example of this not being true. I'm now several levels above some people I used to be equal level with just 1 year ago.

The Arena grind had real, tangible results.

 

 

1 hour ago, _shal_ said:

Do tell us more about how hard you have to work to win one of the ~30 D3 brackets...

I have a tip. Keep your wins a secret, don't leak them in the "How you doing in the League", at least not until the cat is out of the bag.

You would be surprised how many top players lower their guard when they see you're just a player 16 levels below them.

Edited September 15, 2020 by Fiel

[Dr. Lust]

Confession time, for me at least.  I WAS reading this thread but stopped after a while.  The thing I picked up on is the same thing, whether it's this game or real life.  The rich get richer and the poor get poorer (if that's even a word).   It makes sense that the developers would gear the game in this way.  All they want to do is entice those that spend real cash on the game to spend even more real cash.

Like a drug.  Hook those testosterone junkies who get a rush out of "winning" and spending money.  I was that way 35 years ago.  Now that type of thinking just makes me laugh at the fool 23 years ago I was and at the players that fall for that scam now.

I got off that treadmill a LONG time ago and not about to get back on it again.   Put simply.....I no longer work to have fun.

[_shal_]

3 hours ago, Fiel said:

I used to be way lower than that actually due to dipping down to D2 at least a dozen times.

So which ranking number that was still better than 100 does "way lower than 40" refer to?
 

Quote

I'm an example of this not being true. I'm now several levels above some people I used to be equal level with just 1 year ago.

The Arena grind had real, tangible results.

You spent umpteen thousand kobans (I assume) to grind the arena for less than a handful of levels, passing players who were a trivial amount of levels ahead of you. Awesome work, and truly worth emulating if only arena XP still existed.

(Leaving aside that there's no way for you to know if your arena grinding actually made most of the difference, or if they simply missed out on collecting regularly available XP at some point during the last year.)
 

Quote

I have a tip. Keep your wins a secret, don't leak them in the "How you doing in the League", at least not until the cat is out of the bag.

You would be surprised how many top players lower their guard when they see you're just a player 16 levels below them.

Still referring to your win over syncma with the 16 levels stuff?  IIRC he used to be one of the top 5 highest-level players on the server, before he quit what looks like ~6 months ago. I did a quick Discord search to see whether he got namechecked over there, and Habi (another top 5 player at the time) had mentioned him semi-frequently in 2019. Nearly every single time syncma's name came up, it was in the context of him being an underperformer in league play. How often have you defeated an actually competent league player 16 levels above you?

As for "leaking my wins", I have no idea what you're talking about. Anyone who needs to worry about me as a league opponent needs to worry about plenty of people who are at higher levels than me as well, which is pretty much the whole point of this thread. That aside, even if I wasn't posting about my league results at all, I'm pretty sure players who care would have heard about it by now from club mates, if not encountered me in a league season personally. (Not to mention that the in-game league history is a pretty good indicator of player league play strength on its own...)

Edited September 15, 2020 by _shal_

[Fiel]

I don't remember how far low in the ladder I was, but it wasn't anywhere near top 40.

3 hours ago, _shal_ said:

You spent umpteen thousand kobans (I assume) to grind the arena for less than a handful of levels, passing players who were a trivial amount of levels ahead of you. (Leaving aside that there's no way for you to know if your arena grinding actually made most of the difference, or if they simply missed out on collecting regularly available XP at some point during the last year.)

The simplest explanation is the hundreds of thousands of Koban I spent lifted me a good decent number of levels. I simply spent my League rewards well, refer back to good decision making vs bad decision making.

3 hours ago, _shal_ said:

As for "leaking my wins", I have no idea what you're talking about. Anyone who needs to worry about me as a league opponent needs to worry about plenty of people who are at higher levels than me as well, 

Not so. For example there are excellent players like Master Horndog and $exgod69 who can defeat me if they put in the effort for it, and I have proof they defeated me handily. But while they underestimated me, I was the one beating them. It's a legitimate advice, not just for you but for others as well(since it's too late in your case).

Being underestimated is a privilege, treasure it while you have it.

Edited September 16, 2020 by Fiel

[blaa]

I dont think the top40 should be the criteria, it's better to look on the xp-difference. Right now the player on top50 is 200k xp lower, which is actually 1 level or the top 60 is 400k xp and 2 levels. To make up for this difference you needed back in the days about 216000 kobans for 200k xp, and 432000 kobans for 400k xp (which would be half or all of your koban rewards of your league); and 1-2 levels (or maybe back in the day even 4 levels) is not what we are tacking about, right (I still see that your difference to jelom is almost the same, so you have used the arena refills before?)? But if we do, that was a big waste of ressource, the 2-4 levels dont make a really difference in almost every case.

In my case to be somewhat relevant to winning a d3 I should get at least 15-20 levels, better of course 30. That's 1,9M, 2,6M btw 3,9M xp I am missing, which would have made 2,07M, 2,83M or 4,25M kobans, which is 13 200, 18100 btw. 27200 Dollars in the best offer I can get.

Also, the level difference is not always the reason you lose (I beat regularly players with 30-40 levels above me), but it's the main reason you lose if you play against a player who is (almost) as good as you in PvP. And that just sucks; so my best bet would still be that PvP isnt level but skill based. But that's probably not something they will do cause of how the game is structured right now.

 

Edited September 16, 2020 by blaa
adding some numbers

[DvDivXXX]

Alright... This topic is very dear to me (duh), and more importantly I think it's very useful for the community and the game's future health, insofar as it can have even a little bit of influence on the devs' perspective regarding balance in PvP parts of their game. So, while I'm thankful that this thread was revived, and some decent discussion has started again, I don't want it to be polluted too much.

@_shal_ has been doing a great job at debunking unfounded claims and misconceptions voiced over the past few days, but I'll step in to help out on that front. (And now I have the irresistible urge to listen to The Crown's awesome "The Speed of Darkness", because it starts with the line "Those who know don't speak... those who speak don't know!" ^^)

There are two types of players whose default point of view on this subject matter will be horribly wrong and irrelevant (note the emphasis on default, here, anyone can arrive at a good grasp of the situation and draw relevant conclusions if they put in the time and effort it takes to see the global picture). These two groups are at hilariously opposite extremes on the XP and league scale, but what they have in common is that they're out of the loop of what's happening for the majority of players in between.

1. Players either so casual OR so recent to this game OR so bad at the strategy stuff that they have no basic notion of what we're even talking about in this thread. No offense meant, guys, you each do you and that's fine, but please refrain from posting in this thread just to essentially say "this doesn't concern me" (or something false enough that it will hint at the fact that it doesn't concern you).
    
2. Players who have been insanely privileged for so long that they're completely out of touch with the reality of this game for those outside of the tiny privileged group they're a part of, and whose rose-tinted glasses tells them to pat themselves on the back for their awesome "skills" and "good decision making" for things that have next to nothing to do with either of those concepts (which is the entire point of this thread and discussion). No offense meant either, but if the routine question for you is whether you'll be #1 or just in the top 4 of your D3 this week, that very fact is a perfect demonstration of the gross imbalance of power this entire discussion is about. Please take the time to let this sink in before expecting applause for things like beating a slightly more overpowered player than you are yourself.
    

On 9/15/2020 at 1:01 AM, _shal_ said:

Over on Discord, I've seen people as high as (what would currently be) level ~430 complaining that they can't compete against the absolute top level players, but obviously these are people who mostly just suck without realizing it. And I've encountered even more players who truly do get victimized by their too-low level, but whose questionable gameplay outside of the leagues makes me suspect that they suck on top of that. 

That's so, so true, and thank God for that! Because yeah, if everyone was equally skilled and active, this imbalanced system would be so much worse. Thankfully, most players either don't care, don't have the time and/or are just plain terrible at the strategic parts of the game, even in D3. Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to beat over 70% of the field when I'm like 60 levels behind the median in D3.

See, @Fiel? Now that's a struggle, and a result one can legit be proud of. Sorry for taking myself as an example, but there hasn't been many players getting that ahead of the curve since Shal made his breakthrough about a year ago.

Beating another God-mode player as a God-mode player yourself, with a puny difference of 12 levels between their insane advantage over the rest of the field and your own? Not so much, sorry to break it to you (although Shal already tried).
 

23 hours ago, natstar said:

Gaining levels in this game is more for the free energy than for pvp

Thanks for the laugh. Although, after that I've checked your profile out of curiosity and now I feel genuinely sorry for you. You're basically in the same boat as our friend @ricardomagno in that it's your own strategy that seals your current fate much more so than the league's imbalance. You guys mean well, I'm sure, but you don't do well. However, you could (especially you at level freaking 434! ^^). At your current power level, you shouldn't be struggling for your first D2 win. You should routinely be in D3's top 15 if not top 4 instead (or routinely win D2 if you prefer kobans now over more power later and wish to keep playing every other week instead).
 

Last but not least, I need to address this massive misconception:

On 9/15/2020 at 2:36 AM, DocJD said:

I think the game should keep track of Lifetime Kobans Spent and make sure you compete with other players of a similar game history, plus or minus.

13 hours ago, Dr. Lust said:

The rich get richer and the poor get poorer (if that's even a word).   It makes sense that the developers would gear the game in this way.  All they want to do is entice those that spend real cash on the game to spend even more real cash.

This is completely irrelevant to the current system and its actual balance issues. Privileged players in the current system are not whales, and it's not a P2W system at all. This is a Back to the Future to Win system instead. There is some overlap, but not much, and it doesn't really matter. You could start the game today and spend a billion dollars on it, unless it's to buy out Kinkoid, become its new CEO and give yourself an advantage from there, you'll still get crushed in the League by every active veteran who doesn't suck at this game, even if they're strictly F2P themselves. /strawman, please.

[Fiel]

1 hour ago, DvDivXXX said:

There are two types of players whose default point of view on this subject matter will be horribly wrong and irrelevant. These two groups are at hilariously opposite extremes on the XP and league scale, but what they have in common is that they're out of the loop of what's happening for the majority of players in between.

1. Players either so casual OR so recent to this game OR so bad at the strategy stuff that they have no basic notion of what we're even talking about in this thread.
2. Players who pat themselves on the back for their awesome "skills" and "good decision making" for things that have next to nothing to do with either of those concepts.

And of those in between:

1. This group resort to foul cry and pray the admins provide them more Koban.
2. This group actually does something about their situation. They may have struggle for top 30, but eventually listened to experienced peers in their guild, became better and reached top 15, struggled some more and eventually achieved top 4, develops on the advice they were given and eventually win D3.

I'm proud to be able to say many of my club mates belong in the latter group. I've seen them grow from top 30 contenders to become top 4 contenders and beyond. A few of them even surpassing me and winning on weeks where I couldn't win.

It's a beautiful thing, but it's tarnished by ignorants who belittle the effort they put into those achievements.

Edited September 16, 2020 by Fiel

[test_anon]

il y a 7 minutes, Fiel a dit :

1. This group resort to foul cry and pray the admins provide them more Koban. 
2. This group actually does something about their situation. They may have struggle for top 30, but eventually listened to experienced peers in their guild, became better and reached top 15, struggled some more and eventually achieved top 4, develops on the advice they were given and eventually win D3.

I am doing both xD.

The issue is that the sacrifice is more and more expensive, whereas the game asks us for more and more kobans each months.

Edited September 16, 2020 by test_anon

[DvDivXXX]

34 minutes ago, Fiel said:

It's a beautiful thing, but it's tarnished by ignorants who belittle the effort they put into those achievements.

I agree there are ignorant posts in this thread, but we'll have to agree to disagree on which ones they are, as I expected given your previous string of posts, including your failure to get Shal's points. Well, ignorance is bliss, so it's not that easy to give up on, sometimes.

2 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

There are two types of players whose default point of view on this subject matter will be horribly wrong and irrelevant [...] what they have in common is that they're out of the loop of what's happening for the majority of players in between.

34 minutes ago, Fiel said:

And of those in between: (...)

Yeah... NO. Neither of the two "groups" you've listed here can possibly be (much) below level 400 at this time, which means that for the purpose of this discussion, it's only one group, and a tiny one at that, and much MUCH closer to the 1% privileged group you're a part of than to mid-game players, let alone the MAJORITY of players I was actually referring to.

EDIT: Unless you consider everyone below the range of XP required to even be a contender for D3's top 15 as a cry-baby by default, in which case your Group 1 does technically cover a majority of players, but only to insult them and incorrectly assume that they could join Group 2 if they really wanted to, which is even worse.

And this further proves my point that you're disconnected from what the vast majority of players actually experience in this game. Sadly, you seem incapable of even realizing this. I've had sterile discussions with a few players in a similar position as yours, and with a similar bias, so I won't be wasting my time or yours further here.

Just, PLEASE, to keep this thread on topic and on track, refrain from posting more long arguments that you mistakenly assume are relevant for this discussion, when they are only relevant for maybe 10% of players at best, probably less. This discussion is all about the BIG PICTURE problem of the global imbalance you and both of the tiny sub-groups of fairly high-level players you've described are benefiting from. It's NOT about how proud you are that someone went from super-advantaged to über-advantaged. Cheers.

Edited September 16, 2020 by DvDivXXX
added something

[Fiel]

4 minutes ago, test_anon said:

I am doing both xD.

From what I gather, the former cries foul because they can't achieve the latter.

But I don't necessarily see it as a problem when new level 300 players can't defeat veterans who played the game longer than them.

[test_anon]

il y a 6 minutes, Fiel a dit :

From what I gather, the former cries foul because they can't achieve the latter.

We can, but this is *really* expansive.

 

Citation

But I don't necessarily see it as a problem when new level 300 players can't defeat veterans who played the game longer than them.

I see it as a problem in the current system as new players also want their part of the cake.

Being TOP4 D3 is necessary to play the game in its whole. New players also want to play the game in its whole, and they have more needs than veterans players (as they have a lateness to catch up).

 

It is unfair that just because you happened to discover the game more early than anyone, you possess an unfair advantage that cannot be caught up by newer players, no matter the time they will play or efforts they will make.

 

Sure, a level 300 will not win against levels 430. But once the new player will be level 430, the veterans will be level 530.

Edited September 16, 2020 by test_anon

[Fiel]

10 minutes ago, test_anon said:

Being TOP4 D3 is necessary to play the game in its whole. New players also want to play the game in its whole, and they have more needs

You know the League didn't always exist, right? Back then I considered the admins generous for even giving me 150 Koban a day for completing the missions.

Back then I didn't get the privilege of this so-called "playing the game in its whole" either. I always had to watch the event pachinko girls fly by without a chance to grab them. You already are in a far more pampered situation than the veteran players of back then. You just don't realise it, because you're being blinded by how many Koban the top players are winning.

Edited September 16, 2020 by Fiel

[DvDivXXX]

12 minutes ago, Fiel said:

You already are in a far more pampered situation than the veteran players of back then. You just don't realise it, because you're being blinded by how many Koban the top players are winning.

Mod hat ON: Please stop this strawman right here, and don't be a troll from now on. This discussion isn't about how you think you deserve to be privileged in the current situation because you "had it harder back in the day", or how you might be jealous that the current noobs have it relatively easy compared to those who started years ago (or how you incorrectly assume that players who would like to change the system are just jealous of your "hard-earned" koban stash).

It's about how imbalanced the league system is now (and has been since its inception), and how to change it so that we stop having so-called competitive PVP based primarily on whose account is older, instead of on which player is better at what they do.

Edited September 16, 2020 by DvDivXXX

[DvDivXXX]

@mikcrisYour post is spot-on in spirit. You got the gist of the issue and how it breaks the game's economy and equilibrium. I'm glad to see that.

You are incorrect on most of your specific examples, though. Basically, all the numbers you give in your "A scenario: Dicktator league III" paragraph. I'm guessing you're probably too far away from that league and the levels you mentioned to estimate that correctly. It's not that big a deal, at least you've tried.

You also perpetuate the misconception that real-money makes a significant difference in PVP, which it really doesn't. I've already addressed this a few posts above:

3 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

Privileged players in the current system are not whales, and it's not a P2W system at all. This is a Back to the Future to Win system instead. There is some overlap, but not much, and it doesn't really matter. You could start the game today and spend a billion dollars on it, unless it's to buy out Kinkoid, become its new CEO and give yourself an advantage from there, you'll still get crushed in the League by every active veteran who doesn't suck at this game, even if they're strictly F2P themselves.

So please, understand that this system doesn't benefit paying customers over F2P players. That's actually surprising, because it's a frequent pitfall of Freemium games, but that's not what Kinkoid has been doing wrong with the Leagues. F2P or not, it doesn't matter, if you're in the small group that wins big in the league, you're king of the hill. If not, you're a peasant.

[Kenrae]

8 minutes ago, mikcris said:

PS: If you have unlimited amount of real money you can start the game today and reach level 500 will almost all girls and almost all stuff in one week.

No, you can't. It doesn't matter how much money you spend in the game, there's a maximum number of XP you can win in a day. There's no way to speed that up with money.
If that were true there would be level 500 players already.

[GeorgeMTO]

6 minutes ago, mikcris said:

Did someone do this and reached the limit of XP. What would be that number of XP / day?

My thinking is that you buy kobans with real money, let's say 500 billion Kobans. You spend kobans on energy refills, on combativity refills, on pachinko, on upgrading girls on reseting the market to buy stuff at the market... and you say you can not get to do (in the limit of the time you click to do this) all the worlds all the levels and level up everything in the game?

You obviously do not know what you're talking about. Energy is limited to giving exp from what the story can provide. League refills is limited to 3 fights against every person in your league. Arena whatever the 4 wins reward happens to give you (scales with your level), and then in the leaderboards 1st in the various categories that award exp (can't remember the numbers off the top of my head). Add in your daily missions and that's it. No uncapped exp source in the game. Nothing in market awards player exp. I'm choosing to believe you're just ignorant, but if you continue to insist it's possible, I'll have to conclude you're a bad troll.

[test_anon]

Il y a 2 heures, Fiel a dit :

You know the League didn't always exist, right? Back then I considered the admins generous for even giving me 150 Koban a day for completing the missions.

Yeah but you know that back then, and even back in few month we didn't have PoA with 7.2k kobans to spend per month.

Before it was quite manageable even though we didn't get Pachinko girls, we were able to get a lot of girls from the OD, and some few on ED/LD.

 

The fact is that in leagues we must under-perform for months in order to maximize xp without getting in the higher league. Then, we have more months in which leagues will costs us kobans, or will give us less kobans than our TOP30 in D2. Until we reach TOP4 in D3.

We can really start enjoying leagues only when we reach D3. I have some examples in my club that went to D3 by mistake, but even though they get destroyed, want to stay in D3 because they are fed up to under-perform, and to be careful to no do a TOP15. It's a pain in the ass to always aiming a TOP30, being careful to not be too good...

 

When making the transition D2 -> D3, we have to do a huge sacrifice, for a long time, without really knowing if we will manage to make a place for ourselves. A lot of players give up and decide to yoyo, getting in lower leagues to get some TOP>4, without playing once every two weeks. We do not have a clear vision of our future, we do not know if we would be able to do a TOP4 in D3 one day... the issue is that we need to do so to progress in the game.

This is some kind of a long term bet that is highly uncertain.

Edited September 16, 2020 by test_anon

[Čamuga]

58 minutes ago, mikcris said:

I clarified: I think that before they reset the arena and you gain no more XP from the arena this would have been easier.

Replace the word "easier" with "possible" and then you'd be correct. Possible. But INSANELY inefficient and time consuming. And to my knowledge no one did that shit, other than maybe shal? 

[Kenrae]

23 minutes ago, Čamuga said:

Replace the word "easier" with "possible" and then you'd be correct. Possible. But INSANELY inefficient and time consuming. And to my knowledge no one did that shit, other than maybe shal? 

Gogeta I think. There's a reason why he's the highest leveled player in the server.

[Sygfried94]

league is a very difficult subject to begin with.

because 1 it's a competition.

2: it need a way to design a ranking

3 it has reward and as long as you can get higher rank by doing expense, you'll always find player who will try to get higher rank even if it cost practicaly all the reward (or even more) it can be seens on contest. this kind of opposition between reward and expense is what actually make so much repartition between division of medium and high lvl. it's basicly what dvd is experiencing actually, higher gain in d3 than when he blocked in d2 but with much much cost and it's also what test is afraid of. But is it due to the league in reality or the way people are playing and managing their objectives differently.

4 the way the actual system will evolve without change. it will become more and more competitive and less lvl based as time is passing. i already explained that fiew month ago but well it's only since a couple of week that some player start to realise it.(it's due to the way the lvl is working and the way league point are won)

the actual league are answering a couple a thing

1 the more you play the better the gain you will be able to get (of course with moment when you win less) (gain without cost). it's good since it sending people that continue playing is avantageous.

2 there is some way for player to play and manage in some degree there result and not only getting a lvl ranking

 

Can it be better, honestly i doubt the league part can become much much better in a game like HH. The real point behind the league is less how the league work but the way people are building there power it's lacking diversity, it's lacking variability, it's too much time based since once everything up it's only lvl based.

 

It's always amaze me on this subject that so many want to change league trying to put some leagal cheat code on it to get advantage  while it won't basicly change a thing and do not even think of changing the " how to build up character "behind can really make things change

Edited September 16, 2020 by Sygfried94

[Slynia]

2 minutes ago, Kenrae said:

Gogeta I think. There's a reason why he's the highest leveled player in the server.

Just for fun here: Gogeta has >150 000 more Arena wins than me, and I started 2 months before him, and have done some Arena refills myself during my time here.
To make it easy, we will assume that all those 150K extra wins come from Arena refills, you get 3 fights for 24 kobans. 
150 000 / 3 = 50 000... 50 000 x 24 = 1 200 000 kobans.

Please take this with a huge pinch of salt, as it's probably even more than that, this is just assuming that he won all of his fights, and I'm certain that he has lost some as he wasn't always the strongest player.
Also, as I said, I have done some refills myself, so all my "refill-wins" out of my 52 000 should also be taken into account.

Anyway, I think we're getting off-topic here so in an attempt to bring back the discussion on track:
What would it look like if the League was level based just like the contests? Meaning that as a level 400+ player you can only be in the same bracket as other 400+ players, no matter what division you're in. This way it would at the very least be more skill-based than now. However, I'm not sure how well this would do in practice as there might be way too few total brackets for the 400+ players if they are scattered all over? I mean, for example: If there is just 1 D3 bracket (huge underestimation but it's just for fun) of 400+ players, the top players would always look like this:

• Gogeta
• spheedy
• BenBrazke

And the runner up for 4th place would most likely be:

• Z-Wave
• Varlock
• Quistis

What I'm getting at, this wouldn't solve the core problem that most players seem to complain about: The rich get richer. However, there would be fewer "rich get richer" cases up in D3 if this was the case (myself included), and more rich people in lower levels, but this also seems unfair if this would be the case IMO so I think a full redesign of the rewards or the entire league itself would be the best-case scenario.

If we wanna go small, redesign the rewards so that it's worth promoting and stay in that higher league tier, or if we wanna go big, redesign the entire thing.
Lastly, to make it more balanced, I still think that we are in desperate need of a level cap (I don't see any other way of ever balancing the PvP aspect of the game out). We have been chasing XP for years already. I'm ready for something else.

[Sygfried94]

4 minutes ago, Slynia said:

Just for fun here: Gogeta has >150 000 more Arena wins than me, and I started 2 months before him, and have done some Arena refills myself during my time here.
To make it easy, we will assume that all those 150K extra wins come from Arena refills, you get 3 fights for 24 kobans. 
150 000 / 3 = 50 000... 50 000 x 24 = 1 200 000 kobans.

gogeta will never get back all the money he spent to lvl by winng d3, in fiew month he will already start getting harder time to win even with his lvl

[Fiel]

1 hour ago, test_anon said:

Yeah but you know that back then, and even back in few month we didn't have PoA with 7.2k kobans to spend per month.

Before it was quite manageable even though we didn't get Pachinko girls, we were able to get a lot of girls from the OD, and some few on ED/LD.

PoA is completely in spirit with what developers always put the players though. You manage to grab some girls, you watch some girls pass by.

You're not under some sort of extra pressure compared to players in the past. The idea is to tempt you into throwing a few bucks at the events for the girls.

[Chthugha]

There was Mez who did the superleveling with arena for a while.

On topic: I fear the only solution is the solution nobody wants; no koban rewards in the league. It removes the incentive of players not to not go to higher leagues on purpose. Anything else will automatically make it unfair to a group of players.

Edited September 16, 2020 by Chthugha
Lost track of a sentence, and now it said the opposite of what I wanted to say.

[Sygfried94]

20 minutes ago, Chthugha said:

There was Mez who did the superleveling with arena for a while.

On topic: I fear the only solution is the solution nobody wants; no koban rewards in the league. It removes the incentive of players not to go to higher leagues on purpose. Anything else will automatically make it unfair to a group of players.

problem if you do that you send a message that free player do not have anymore chance to get more girl. With their rythm it will kill the game