New Feature: The Labyrinth - Started December 6th 2023 at live

[Horsting]

Some more balancing feedback. But bugs (reported above all over) go first, of course!

• Same as everywhere else in the game, defence bonuses are much too low to be competitive: Since 1 defence in a simple view has the same value as 1 AP, but the absolute defence are roughly half as high as the absolute AP, all relative defence bonuses would need to be doubled to be competitive.
• This applies specifically for cases where this bonus is granted late in the battle, like the physical/orange GS5 defence bonus. It is already massively underpowered with just 8% at level 5, compared to other skills like roughly the damage of a crit to a target, 40% heal of all girls, and especially, since this is the closest other defensive skill: The shield provided by sensual/blue girls: At level 5 it grants an additional 32% of max ego shield to (on the paper) 3 girls. Such an instant full bonus, which does not develop its value with each round like a defence or AP bonus, is much better in the 4th or 5th round, where the skills are usually casted and the battle is almost over. It has quite a chance to prevent a girl from getting tired, while the defence bonus with its tiny 2k or what damage prevention for at 1 or at best 2 further attacks is quite useless.
• But further, the shield skill seems to be currently bugged: An opponent had it, and it affected all left 5 girls, not only 3. Furthermore, while the shield is smaller than a usual non-crit attack, the damage my girls do above the shield, does not reduce the attacked girls' ego, instead the while damage of my girls are lost in the shield. These both things, not sure whether the 2nd is intended, make this shield much stronger as defensive skill than the defence bonus.
• The only thing which is much weaker, is the mana reduction skill of voyeur/violet girls. A tiny percent mage reduction to all opponent girls, which is usually not enough to prevent them from casting their skills in the same round. This should be raised to a 20% mana reduction at least, or higher to a limited number of girls, so that it has a real chance to prevent some opponent girls from casting their spell in the same round. Then it would become an interesting tactical element. At, and this skill does not only reduce the opponent girls' mana, but steals hit. However, I have not seen a single fight which would last so long that there would be any chance for the girl to cast her spell again. And of course, also the second time it would be just too weak to make any difference.
• Burnout (reduce ego of 2 random opponent girls) of eccentric/red girls seem to be very weak as well. I am not 100% sure, but I think I saw it once from my team, and it had not even any effect, but I was not too concentrated.
• Currently, IMO the healing skill of submissive/white girls is with huge distance the best, especially in this late battle phase where your tanks are usually damaged. Second IMO is the Slap!, which is moreless the damage of a crit, usually instantly killing an opponent girl in this game phase. I did not see the stun of playful/yellow skill yet, but it is probably 3rd or even 2nd, as it basically prevents two girls from ever doing damage again (3 more rounds after skills are casted is unlikely).

So after bugs have been fixed (in case this ever happens), there is quite significant balancing required, if skills and relics shall be competitive, so that every skill and relic has a real use or tactical opportunity at least in some situations.

[DuDeLoK]

curious have they removed bugged full heal after kill talent cards? havent found them today

[EpicBacon]

7 minutes ago, DuDeLoK said:

curious have they removed bugged full heal after kill talent cards? havent found them today

they are still there, I did not get a heal until floor3

[jelom]

Some comments after playing some iterations of the labyrinth in the current nerfed easy mode:

-Time it takes to play the feature: Once used to it you can do a fast run in about 15 minutes, with just a few team changes when opposing bosses and harder enemies, you also have to add another 5-10 minutes to spend the kisses and combativity gained in the three floors. Multiply it by 2 or 3 in the future if harder difficulty levels can be played after easy level. That would be too much in my opinion.

- The influx of resources, depending on how many strong enemies you choose, is around 20-30 kisses and 10-20 fists, and around 2200 laby coins. The issue with some coins lost because you have to choose between two bags should be addressed. Those kisses will be useful for Kinky cumpetition, and fists for all drops in villains and also for some events like PoA.

- The current bugs with relics and classes are not disrupting enough in the current difficulty (except for new players with not many upgraded girls), but they should work as expected, surely KK will slowly solve them, but it is a pity that the Labyrinth wasn't more polished before going live.

[EpicBacon]

4 hours ago, Horsting said:

So after bugs have been fixed (in case this ever happens), there is quite significant balancing required, if skills and relics shall be competitive, so that every skill and relic has a real use or tactical opportunity at least in some situations.

This is the most fun I've had in this game in years tho, I really do like this mode.
Bugs will be the primary thing to get sorted out, and after that they can start balancing stuff.
They could also make the labyrinth its own thing, meaning they can change skills and stats
without affecting the main game, thus they can do radical changes without worrying about how it will affect pvp.

[DuDeLoK]

any thoughts about buying 55 red bulbs instead of new girl in shop (same price)? ofc buying everytime red bulbs not possible because u also need to find them. so it will make skip 1 girl and have extra coins for next girl

Edited December 11, 2023 by DuDeLoK

[EpicBacon]

2 hours ago, DuDeLoK said:

any thoughts about buying 55 red bulbs instead of new girl in shop (same price)? ofc buying everytime red bulbs not possible because u also need to find them. so it will make skip 1 girl and have extra coins for next girl

If you don't need the girl, then mythic bulbs seems like a much better deal to me.
And you can allways get the girl when she eventually comes back in a later laby season.
I am picking up as many mythic bulbs as I can, a total of 3 so far

[EpicBacon]

New day, new laby run, and I get offered Finish move again, this time Legendary.
Since I was not able to test last time if they work individially, it sounded like a good idea to test.
Turns out, getting an opponent girl to under 8% of their starting ego is quite difficult.
I had no luck early on, but on floor 3, I got the skill to trigger 3 separate times.

There is no message pop up, no sounds or anything to notify you.
The girl simply dies, and the only way to know that the finish move went off is to look at the damage numbers.
In one battle my girl did 98.000 damage, against a girl with 110.000 ego, this should leave her with 12.000 ego.
Her total ego was 302.000, and 8% of that is 24.160, thus putting her into Finish move range.

The other two instances the skill triggered I was not able to get the specific numbers as both of them happened late in the fight; one of them being on one of the backrow girls at the final boss.
I was able to visually observe that the damage number was lower the the total ego left on the girl.

So Individual "Finish move" does work, but stacking is another question.
Either they do not stack at all, the calculation are bugged, or my first run with 16% were not up to standards.
If i get another run with "Finish Move" relics, I might try stacking again, now that I know that there is no notification
message when it triggers.
 

[hihi1237823]

How are the amount of health/ego/endurance for each girls

generated/calculated?

[Attirm]

On 12/10/2023 at 8:45 AM, Horsting said:

Same as everywhere else in the game, defence bonuses are much too low to be competitive: Since 1 defence in a simple view has the same value as 1 AP, but the absolute defence are roughly half as high as the absolute AP, all relative defence bonuses would need to be doubled to be competitive.

I'm not so sure, because of the way the speed stat works it's usually going to be one team attacking 7 times followed by the other team attacking 7 times (or however many girls are left standing after the beating they took). Having a defense bonus is really important for ensuring your girls are still standing to hit back, and doubly so to benefit from bonuses that let them heal when they attack.

I do agree with you on the defense skill activations, though. Battles are usually over by the time skills are activating and it's just cleanup.

[Horsting]

3 hours ago, hihi1237823 said:

How are the amount of health/ego/endurance for each girls

generated/calculated?

2 hours ago, Attirm said:

I'm not so sure, because of the way the speed stat works it's usually going to be one team attacking 7 times followed by the other team attacking 7 times (or however many girls are left standing after the beating they took). Having a defense bonus is really important for ensuring your girls are still standing to hit back, and doubly so to benefit from bonuses that let them heal when they attack.

Or your girls attack 7 times first, which makes defence less important, or it is mixed, I have seen quite everything, also against orange opponents. When your girls attack first, AP becomes more important for a very similar reason: the chance to kill opponent girls before they can even attack. So while this is a factor in individual fights, it does not generally make defence or AP more or less valuable, but the 1 AP = 1 defence => +1% AP = +2% defence remains a solid balance basis.

[bolitho76]

It seems that the needed labyrinth coins for buying shards of older girls scale if you need less than 20 shards to finish her:

I have the girl at 90 shards, so only 10 shards needed and the game want only half of the normal amount of coins.

[Yamiray]

Is it a bug that the labyrinth girl is not showing in the Harem even after getting some shards? Not sure how you check your progress without that. Will double check if it show anything in labyrinth tomorrow as the shop did a sold out after getting the 20 so I can't even hover over that right now.

[Master-17]

1 hour ago, Yamiray said:

the labyrinth girl is not showing in the Harem even after getting some shards

Are you sure that the display of girls who do not have 100% shards is not disabled in your Harem? Are you using standard Harem or Harem++? In the latter case, there may be problems due to information caching. And in principle, this can cause problems when using any scripts. You should try watching it in Vanilla HH.

[EpicBacon]

1 hour ago, Yamiray said:

Is it a bug that the labyrinth girl is not showing in the Harem even after getting some shards? Not sure how you check your progress without that. Will double check if it show anything in labyrinth tomorrow as the shop did a sold out after getting the 20 so I can't even hover over that right now.

I cannot find her in the haremscreen either, I don't have any shards for her tho.
Try mousing over her shard icon in the laby store, it will show you how many shards you will have if you buy the shards in the store, in the first picture here, I am looking at Takara, I have no shards, so It shows me I'll get 20/100
The second screenshot, I am checking on Arachnid, I have 30 shards from previously, so the game shows me that if I buy this items, I will get 50/100

[Yamiray]

13 minutes ago, Master-17 said:

Are you sure that the display of girls who do not have 100% shards is not disabled in your Harem? Are you using standard Harem or Harem++? In the latter case, there may be problems due to information caching. And in principle, this can cause problems when using any scripts. You should try watching it in Vanilla HH.

I don't use any scripts and my code scanner is not seeing her either. I've seen girls hidden from the harem before but not if you have at least 1 shard.

[Master-17]

I have a suspicion that perhaps she was given a filter as Love Labyrinth, but they forgot to add it to the filters, and therefore she is not displayed. Could this be the case?

[Yamiray]

48 minutes ago, Master-17 said:

I have a suspicion that perhaps she was given a filter as Love Labyrinth, but they forgot to add it to the filters, and therefore she is not displayed. Could this be the case?

Its possible however I've not seen evidence that a girl needs to be connected to an event to show up. there are a few girls that have a blank event tag but still show up in Harem with all the filters off. also I've even put her id in the url which if she is in there somewhere should come up but getting nothing. The few girls that have been hidden do normal pop up after you get the 100 shards, if she is still hidden at that point that would be a larger problem. Really the only thing needed for them to show up in the list is a girlsDataList['id#'] entry and right now hers is missing

[bolitho76]

Could it be intended to avoid that the Labyrinth Girl pop up in the SM-Shop? Only an idea from my side.

[Horsting]

22 minutes ago, bolitho76 said:

Could it be intended to avoid that the Labyrinth Girl pop up in the SM-Shop? Only an idea from my side.

If so, I would not like it. The fact that she can appear in SM shop would be the only reason why one could even think about investing coins for anything else (another revival). Otherwise you get her too close, when finishing all 3 floors every 2 days. Would be good to get some clarification on that from devs.

[bolitho76]

4 minutes ago, Horsting said:

The fact that she can appear in SM shop would be the only reason why one could even think about investing coins for anything else (another revival).

At the moment we have only 1/3 of the Labyrinth feature active, so, yes Labyrinth coins are extremly rare and not enough for f2p go gain the Labyrinth Girl in the normal 30 cycles until a new one will added. We don't know how the income of Labyrinth coins will change with the normal and hard stage, but I'm sure there will be a change.

So at the moment I can't say if I like or dislike the possibilty that KK didn't want that the Labyringht Girl appear in SM-shop. There are too much informations not available to all of us to make a meaningfull statement in this case in my eyes.

[mdnoria]

Bought 20 shards this morning after the weekly patch and the shards are visible in my harem :

il y a 8 minutes, bolitho76 a dit :

that KK didn't want that the Labyringht Girl appear in SM-shop

I seriously doubt that.

[garadron]

guys, did you forget that there's a name search in Harem?

or do you mean that you can't find her that way either?

[bolitho76]

Darkyz posted this at PSH Discord.

@garadron There were some players who tried to find Takara with the name search and they couldn't find them. So it seems there was something not working in the last days, but KK fixed it today.

You can read it here:

 

[Horsting]

The Labyrinth contains a memory leak. After playing through all 3 stages, before the end boss:

Navigation stated to become sluggish as well. Closing and reopening the browser tab fixes it, but I do not wonder at all that it does not work well on mobile phones and e.g. an iPad someone said. Those will be on their knees quickly.