XXDongXX Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 just finished my normal run. The by far biggest difference to what we had before is the length of fights. I got a ton of defence relics (+ego + defence protective bubbles) and i managed to not loose a single girl until the final boss. There i lost one of my 2 tanks. I had 1 healer in my Team and used fights againt easy and medium enemies to heal my girls using a team with only tanks and the healer. I runned my strongest team from the start. Just switching tanks from time to time to not let them die and heal them back up when there was an easy fight. I think having one or 2 healers in the team is now a lot more valuable then before cause the skill will trigger one or even two times before the fight is over. Mana boost is now useable but its to random if u don't have a team where every girl has a usefull skill to activate. I grabbed 3 finish move relics an i saw it trigger a lot so they may stack in a better way then before. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rylarth Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 Thanks for the Information about the Labyrinth Jelom i did not not know that i hardly ever play on my test account its probably not even Level 100😅 i barelly have enough energy for the real version i also put more hours into other games this game is just a side piece game for me 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jelom Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 This is a roller coaster, yesterday the hard mode was difficult as hell, and today the normal run is easy as a candy. I guess that when putting normal mode in main server they want to start easy and adjust progressively each week as they get data of the players results. As for the future hard mode in main server, in my opinion the ideal level of difficulty should be such that it is beatable without rejuvenation, but by a slight margin, so it depends on luck obtaining relics and also a solid strategy and having a good harem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der DinX Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 (edited) And of course they managed to disable parts of the script with the update, or is it just me who hasn't the filter for girls and view of relics anymore? Checked for an updated version, but it just dont work anymore. Looking for suitable girls on the team page without being able to filter is a pain in the ass, and just as useless as every other part of the game, when playing without script. Edited February 29 by Der DinX 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicBacon Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 (edited) Did an easy run, so I could grab as many relics as possible to test, without worrying about grabbing the "best" relics. Was not offered a great selection tho, but got some information. Vigorous Motivation It is no longer show in the responce, it has been changed back to be a hidden value, it still gives you the damage, but you have to calculate it yourself, and it is no longer added to the "damage" number. No longer gives you a turn by turn damage buff, it is still really good as it multiplies your final damage value, after all other sources of damage are added. I can also confirm that it is not added when your girls go below 50% ego. I have not tested "berserk" but I will assume it will work the same way. Protection Assist Now only target your girls, I was offered one early on, and grabbed a second one later in the labyrinth. With the reduced damage, this one is actually not too bad, and if you get two of them, and enters a battle with 1 girl, they also stack. Curse With the updated damage formula, they now work, and if you get more then one, they both work independently of each other, they can also hit the same girl, and if that happens, the effect stacks. Here is an example where 1 girl is hit with two curses. And here is an example where two different girls in the same battle is cursed. Critical Thinking (global) Grabbed a 40% critical thinking relic, and it did give me increased critical hit damage. I was receiving slightly more then 40%, my tests had me at 42.5% to 55% extra critical damage, I am not sure what causes the extra damage, there might be some relic interactions going on, but nevertheless, Critical thinking (global) is now working Here is an example, where I seem to be getting 2700-2800 more damage then I am supposed to. This example also have a curse interaction, that gave me some weird numbers before I figured out what was going on. Here is a sample from another fight, I have about 8.000 more damage then the calculations say. 2nd fight gave some weird number, not sure what happened there, 5th round was against a shielded girl, and the last three rounds here are against a cursed girl. Critical Thinking (target) And now for the bugged relic, I picked up a 20% target critical hit increase, and it did not give me the correct numbers. I've tested these relics before, and with the update the damage has changed from 8 to 4. I cannot speak for the other rarities, I was not offered another target one, and even if I did, since I picked up a global critical damage increase, it would make it really hard to get accurate data on them. The Critical Thinking (target) has been reported, and will be looked at. Edited March 1 by EpicBacon 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CulturedCrow Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 I don't know if it's just me or whether others have already noticed this, but when the Finish Her relic defeats an opponent, Defeat Medication doesn't proc. It seems like it only works when your attack damage causes the KO. I saw this happen multiple times today. It kinda makes sense, but it's also unfortunate if that's the intended function. It's called Defeat Medication, not Attack KO Medication, so you would think it would give credit no matter what skill/method caused the defeat. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madahmed Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 Interesting Runs for today. I tried different strategies with CH PH and HH. i played the normal Laby in three sites. I started with Ph. I started with powerful girls but i struggled in the last floor. while i had only weak girls and the boss kept healing its team. but i got it and it took me 101 girls. Then , i moved to CH and i used the opposite and it was somehow better . i got the 4 floors with 72 girls tired. But the most interesting is what is coming In HH, I have stronger girls . I chose Sake and Magical noemy as healer and stunner at the back, in Mid , I have two damage dealers including Azana with her black skill and a charm girl.in font i used two tanks; i started with the weakest girls. I directly got two Protection Assist and I can confirm what @EpicBaconsaid in the previous comment ; it does work and stack . But the most interesting is what is coming. I think I found the New OP Relic which is It does work and pretty well. It reduces the final damage and thus makes the girls survive more and if you are like me and you get you will pass a good run with these. It does not really stack but it woks like this : Final damage = (damage - 20%)- (damage after protective bubble 20% - 16%) - (result - 12%) For example : attack = 50000 defence = 30000 Damage = 50000-30000 = 20000 but with three relics like this damage would be 20000- 4000 (20%) = 16000 16000- 2560 (16%) = 13440 13440- 1612.8 (12%) = 11872.2 its almost 9K blocked. It Protects all the girls and makes them surive more attacks.thus , you wont lose a lot of girls. I had also 2 defeat medication , and 1 reu. and the others a mix between attack defence and ego relics. i got the 4 floors with a minimum girls tired. @EpicBacon later on , i will give you stats for Stun skill. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsting Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 4 hours ago, madahmed said: I think I found the New OP Relic which is It does work and pretty well. Jep, the best defensive relic by far, now that it works as intended, probably even better than defeat medication and rejuvenation as long as you have some from all of them. Thanks for the calculation how it stacks: 20%+16%=36% would have been better for us, but it makes sense to stack such "reduction" relics the way they do, so one cannot reduce damage to/below 0. The duck relic seems to stack a way that you can get 100% dodge chance with 2 mythic ones, or I was just lucky when I had this once or it was adjusted to stack like protective bubble: 50%*50%=25% (hit chance with two mythic dodge relics). 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madahmed Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 il y a 2 minutes, Horsting a dit : Jep, the best defensive relic by far, now that it works as intended, probably even better than defeat medication and rejuvenation as long as you have some from all of them. Thanks for the calculation how it stacks: 20%+16%=36% would have been better for us, but it makes sense to stack such "reduction" relics the way they do, so one cannot reduce damage to/below 0. The duck relic seems to stack a way that you can get 100% dodge chance with 2 mythic ones, or I was just lucky when I had this once or it was adjusted to stack like protective bubble: 50%*50%=25% (hit chance with two mythic dodge relics). It is rare but i got once two mythics dodge relics and after that opponents could not get that girl.and thus , i won the run easily. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator bolitho76 Posted March 1 Author Moderator Share Posted March 1 Very strong is "Finish move" too. With the ability to stack up to 40%... The only time I could beat the 4th floor Boss with one team was with 2x Protective Bubble 16% and enough Finish move to reach 38%. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicBacon Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 17 hours ago, CulturedCrow said: I don't know if it's just me or whether others have already noticed this, but when the Finish Her relic defeats an opponent, Defeat Medication doesn't proc. It seems like it only works when your attack damage causes the KO. I saw this happen multiple times today. It kinda makes sense, but it's also unfortunate if that's the intended function. It's called Defeat Medication, not Attack KO Medication, so you would think it would give credit no matter what skill/method caused the defeat. I can confirm this. Happened to me in todays normal run. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsting Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 52 minutes ago, EpicBacon said: 18 hours ago, CulturedCrow said: I don't know if it's just me or whether others have already noticed this, but when the Finish Her relic defeats an opponent, Defeat Medication doesn't proc. It seems like it only works when your attack damage causes the KO. I saw this happen multiple times today. It kinda makes sense, but it's also unfortunate if that's the intended function. It's called Defeat Medication, not Attack KO Medication, so you would think it would give credit no matter what skill/method caused the defeat. I can confirm this. Happened to me in todays normal run. Interesting fact. I somehow didn't recognise it. That is bad, so it's either DM (Defeat Mediaction) or FM (Finish Move), but not both. Please some mod forward this to KK: Two of the best relics breaking each other really a problem. 18 hours ago, CulturedCrow said: It kinda makes sense It does not make sense to me, as you point out in the follow-up sentence. Defeat is defeat, no matter which relic effect or skill did the last bite. And I am quite sure it is not intended either, but just related to the way where the code which triggers DM is hooks inside. And as always, of it was intended, then it would require a note in the relic description(s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CulturedCrow Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 Yeah, it only makes sense if the devs intend to further reduce the effectiveness of the relic and then also didn't bother to rethink its name. If you keep Finish Move 12% or lower, then Defeat Medication is still a worthwhile heal, albeit one that triggers less frequently. But it is a sad state of affairs to see the former best relic fall so far. I would choose FM over DM every day of the week if they remain incompatible. The proper functioning of the other defensive relics like Bubble and Assist further serves to limit the importance of DM in the new version of the labyrinth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicBacon Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 1 hour ago, CulturedCrow said: If you keep Finish Move 12% or lower, then Defeat Medication is still a worthwhile heal, albeit one that triggers less frequently. But it is a sad state of affairs to see the former best relic fall so far. I would choose FM over DM every day of the week if they remain incompatible. It used to work with Finish move before the update. 1 hour ago, Horsting said: Please some mod forward this to KK: Two of the best relics breaking each other really a problem. I've forwarded this as far as I am capable. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madahmed Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 @EpicBacon Here is data for stun skill. it is around 30%. i was counting only hard battles and bosses at first it was hard to activate the skill because battles were not long enough. but now with the normal mode , there are more longer battles which make the skill triger more in one battle. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsting Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 (edited) 1 hour ago, CulturedCrow said: The proper functioning of the other defensive relics like Bubble and Assist further serves to limit the importance of DM in the new version of the labyrinth. But bubble and assist do not heal, only rejuvenation would be left, which cannot heal to 100%, but only heavily injured girls effectively. So I tend to prefer DM. But I am totally unsure whether it is really better or not, and in case in which difficulty. Assist and curse are still incredibly weak, isn't it? Less than 30% chance that they even hit a tank where they have any relevant effect, and assist is hardly a better buff than regular ego relics, but for a single girl only. For me the weakest relics, aside of things like duck on a backline DD and such. 9 minutes ago, madahmed said: but now with the normal mode , there are more longer battles which make the skill triger more in one battle. Has nothing to do with normal mode, but the fact that the update halved the damage, respectively removed the weird doubling of final damage that was there previously. Indeed very nice to see skills used way more often. And it also reduces the overpower of fast opponents, i.e. the major importance of speed when choosing opponents. Edited March 1 by Horsting 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicBacon Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 (edited) 18 minutes ago, madahmed said: @EpicBacon Here is data for stun skill. it is around 30%. I was just about to make a post, I'll be away for a couple of days so wanted to post it before I leave. As you say, it was difficult to get any data on battles apart from hard and boss battles. I actually made sure to weaken myself more by using tank girls in the midline and avoiding taking excessive damage relics. Most of my early data has 10-20 samples, but I realized that I could send Kyoko alone into green fights on floor 1 and 2 on easy mode, and there my sample size jumped to 46-48. That is kind of moot tho as with the new update of the laby, I was able to get a far higher sample size, 80 in my first easy run, and 124 in my normal run today. Here is my data, feel free to use it to draw any conclusions. @madahmed Edited March 1 by EpicBacon 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madahmed Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 il y a 17 minutes, Horsting a dit : Has nothing to do with normal mode, but the fact that the update halved the damage, respectively removed the weird doubling of final damage that was there previously. Indeed very nice to see skills used way more often. And it also reduces the overpower of fast opponents, i.e. the major importance of speed when choosing opponents. you are right .the doubling made the battles shorter thus the skills were not used 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CulturedCrow Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 3 hours ago, Horsting said: But bubble and assist do not heal, only rejuvenation would be left, which cannot heal to 100%, but only heavily injured girls effectively. So I tend to prefer DM. But I am totally unsure whether it is really better or not, and in case in which difficulty. I consider damage mitigation to be inverse healing. Kind of like the saying, "A penny saved is a penny earned." DM benefits from always healing a % of max ego rather than a % of missing ego, but is limited by only occurring when a girl defeats an opponent. If damage stays in its current lowered state, then more turns will not involve an opponent being defeated, instead merely softened up with damage. What usually happens for me is that my back line girls end up sniping the killshot and my injured frontline never gets to heal. But now with a combination of Bubble and Rejuvenation, even my frontline stays relatively healthy against Red opponents. I didn't pick up a single Defeat Medication relic on today's normal run and I didn't miss it at all. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXDongXX Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 4 hours ago, CulturedCrow said: I didn't pick up a single Defeat Medication relic on today's normal run and I didn't miss it at all. agreed. I won't say its not worth picking it, but there are a lot of relics that are better. For healing purposes there are more reliable solutions now and the by far best option is a proper skilled submissive girl. For healing your frontline i would clearly prefer rejuvenation or the relic that heals your girl for dmg done. Did my 2. normal mode run. This time i wasn't as lucky with relics as in my first run and in the end i had 27 tired girls. I did not loose any midline or backline girls only frontline got wiped against hard opponents on 3th and 4th floor. Compared to my first run i was missing protective bubbles and healing relics(only had 2 dm). But with that new Laby we have i am curious if a fight could end in some kind of infinite loop if the oppenent and the player run enough girls with healing skill. I have read reports about player having trouble beating opponents with 2 healing girls in the team. So choosing finish move whenever you can could be wise, i consider it to be one of the strongest relics in that new environment. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jelom Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Interesting, my last run in normal mode I played without any defensive relic, and without rejuvenation or defeat medication (I wasn't offered any of those), but with a lot of damage relics of all types, a few rare ego ones and also 3 finish ones (added 24%). I lost almost half of the girls (including my healer one) and lost the first battle against hard opponentes and bosses in 3rd and 4th floor. So that shows the importance of having defensive relics, especially protective bubble, and healing ones, especially rejuvenation, in the current bug fixing state. In previous runs I didn't lost a single battle and a very few girls. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsting Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 12 hours ago, CulturedCrow said: I consider damage mitigation to be inverse healing. Kind of like the saying, "A penny saved is a penny earned." DM benefits from always healing a % of max ego rather than a % of missing ego, but is limited by only occurring when a girl defeats an opponent. For a single fight, this is true, but over the long run, only healing allows you to heal your tanks in simple battles, when they took damage in harder ones. I don't say DM is better, but you just cannot compare healing and defence/bubble that easily, as they serve different purposes. 7 hours ago, XXDongXX said: agreed. I won't say its not worth picking it, but there are a lot of relics that are better. For healing purposes there are more reliable solutions now and the by far best option is a proper skilled submissive girl. For healing your frontline i would clearly prefer rejuvenation or the relic that heals your girl for dmg done. Rejuvenation does not heal per dmg, but per hit, and % of "missing" ego, not "max" ego. Hence it heals effectively only heavily damaged girls, while slightly damaged girls are healed minimally only, and you cannot reach max ego with those. Hence DM and Rejuvenation in some way work well together, as they have better/worse in different situations. But indeed DM for tanks is not to awesome, as they do not much damage and hence the chance that they do a final hit is low. Long fights against weak opponents (using only a few girls and no DDs or so) can be done to make effective use of defeat medication. Submissive GS5 is awesome, true, but not everyone has a larger amount of such girls and sufficient bulbs to max them out. I have two submissive M6, that is good, but it happens that they get tired, and I have not a single submissive L5 that I can afford to max out only for the Labyrinth. So it depends a bit whether and how much you can make use of this skill. If not, or those girls got tired, there is only DM and Rejuvenation, and the latter has limited use. Furthermore, one can have unlucky runs where not a single high Rejuvenation relic is offered, like me yesterday. If you just trust to get some, and pick FM over DM, it might kick you in the ass. But on the other hand: Normal is still easy enough that most can finish it without using a stone, even without making use of DM and special tank healing battles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rylarth Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 (edited) True you cant fully compare protective bubble with healing relics. But its also true that if you take effectively 40% less damage. You will need less healing to get back into top shape. And sure defeat medication sounds better than rejuvenation. Until you realise we are comparing heals on all of your turns with rejuvenation versus heals on defeated enemies with defeat medication. Which might not be the best. If you are versus say a very hard opponent where if you are unlucky it might take anything between 15-40+ rounds before you get your first heal. i would probably say Rejuvenation gives you more reliable healing. Since its all of your 7 turns. Heals on defeat is probably not that effective with healing if your girls are already dead/tired before it applies. Edit/It might still be to early to say which is the best relic since they just fixed Defat Medification/ probably broke it more than ever since now it is esentially useless. Combined with finish move since you get no healing at all. Hope that is not intended mechanics. Until they fix defeat medication i wont pick it up at all. And Labyrinth is honestly already filled to the brim with way too much complexity to make it enjoyable. With different boosting relics with way to much variety even without the shitty single girls relics which just sucks. Like Ego relics/Multiple different Damage relics/ Multiple different Harmony relics/ Multiple different Defence relics / 8 different element Damage relics and all those come in 5 different rarities: Sometimes Less is more. Hard difficulty is most likely going to be hard enough even without single girl relics Edited March 2 by Rylarth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmerB Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 My best session (from two) on HH: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madahmed Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Today's run was not as good as last one. I was offered only two protective bubles ;rare and common. and no rejuv, defeat medication the whole run. I lost my skilled team with the first opponent of floor 4. but a common girl with Red skill carried a bit after that as it launched her skilled which constantly gave damage to opponents. i lost some teams but at the end i got floor 4 with 61 tired girls. ood thing is that i discovered that the Red GS5 skill woks pretty well with common girls. Next time i will test directly the stun skill with a common girl . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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