jelom Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 But it is possible to get so many shards: I have got Carine on day 3 and I am at 72 shards with Alex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackMacKenzie Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 1 hour ago, jelom said: But it is possible to get so many shards: I have got Carine on day 3 and I am at 72 shards with Alex. I wish! I'm getting shards from Carine on less than 7% of my fights with Donatien, for slightly less than 2.5 shards per hit. The exact opposite experience. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybee Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 I am still going at the first girl, with 99 shards accumulated. The drop rate is too low definitely. You have to give chances to casual players who miss 20-30% of boss fights because the counter runs full sometimes. Right now players who religiously fight every boss fight available can need more than six days to get one worthless event girl. Either the drop rate of shards has to be seriously increased or the 100 shard drop chance has to be increased to previous levels, so that most of the players would get the girls in 2-4 days with the full drop as before. Fighting six days for an event girl (meaning 300+ fights) has to be extreme bad luck, not a common occurrence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John 1039 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 1 hour ago, jaybee said: Right now players who religiously fight every boss fight available can need more than six days to get one worthless event girl. Why would players who think they are worthless even try to get them? Additionally, in the previous system too, players who religiously fought every boss fight available could've needed more than six days to get a single drop. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybee Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Because it's a collection game and its aim is to collect 100, 200, 300 girls, even if you only need 3 strong ones for all other game purposes. If you make the easiest to get girls so difficult to get, the collection game loses its purpose for the casual player and they stop playing. In the old system basically 90% of the players got the event girls in 1-4 days with very little effort. A mere 10% needed a lot of effort or failed to get the girls. It would be fair for the same percentage to fight full 6 days for an event girl or use kobans at the end. Looking at contest results, by day 5-6 many players were buying fights already. I literally never saw koban spending during 12-day events before but free fight results are so desperately bad that players are forced to do that now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeMTO Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 19 minutes ago, jaybee said: If you make the easiest to get girls so difficult to get, the collection game loses its purpose for the casual player and they stop playing. Or casual players can adjust their expectations and realise wasting resources means they don't deserve the same results as those who don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhans Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 12 minutes ago, GeorgeMTO said: Or casual players can adjust their expectations and realise wasting resources means they don't deserve the same results as those who don't. Or they could quit since if it stops being fun then it's not a good game anymore. And once they do, Kinkoid would probably backtrack and start raising drop rates to stop the decrease in player numbers thus making it easier for the rest of us who stays behind. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeMTO Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 16 minutes ago, Lhans said: Or they could quit since if it stops being fun then it's not a good game anymore. And once they do, Kinkoid would probably backtrack and start raising drop rates to stop the decrease in player numbers thus making it easier for the rest of us who stays behind. Possibly. I'm just sick of people who play badly (ie take 3 months to save up for a single x10 epic pachinko spin) and expect to get the same stuff as everyone else. Either spend time, spend money or realise you just don't get everything. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhans Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 20 minutes ago, GeorgeMTO said: (ie take 3 months to save up for a single x10 epic pachinko spin) And what would be a reasonable amount of time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybee Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Event girls by definition have been for casual players. Epic girls and legendaries are for committed players. It's not a good idea to turn the easiest reward in the game into a 6-7 day 300-350 fight marathon. We can see from the forum that the casual player is frightened off much sooner than that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeMTO Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 18 minutes ago, Lhans said: And what would be a reasonable amount of time? Just by completing daily missions and the minimum rewards from ToF, you earn more than enough for one x10 spin each month. So that's ignoring leagues, contests or doing well enough to get a higher tier of rewards in ToF. If an event requires you to spend some Kobans, every 2 months was "acceptable" under the old girl drop method. Not enough data on the new one to know for sure (especially with Epic Days seeming to have a drastic reduction in value) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huangover Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 28 minutes ago, jaybee said: Event girls by definition have been for casual players. Epic girls and legendaries are for committed players. It's not a good idea to turn the easiest reward in the game into a 6-7 day 300-350 fight marathon. We can see from the forum that the casual player is frightened off much sooner than that. Who cares about the casual player? I don't, what do they contribute to the game? Everyone wants the game to progress but that takes resources and resources cost money, Someone has to pay, This game is doing a good job in slowly dragging plalers to pay for the service and so they should or the alternative will be a youtube type advertisement before every boss fight. THis game will not develop unless they have money to invest in it. I really do not understand this concept of complaining about making life hard for free playing players. Try and play Fortnite or Overwatch as a casual player and be competitive without paying money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybee Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Then the game should stop catering to these players. At the moment anyone who has been playing this game for 24 hours is past Dark Lord and anyone who has casually played for a week is past Ninja Spy. Yet we still get constant girls at those two bosses. Why waste the nerves of players with this low-level shit if you want to appeal to the proficient player? You don't force a Level 110 WoW player to go back to the Level 15 zone and compete for rewards of that size. This game does it all the time because for some reason it wants to appeal to beginner players. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhans Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 9 minutes ago, Huangover said: Who cares about the casual player? They're the ones who pad up the numbers in arena, ToF, clubs. Besides, being casual doesn't mean that they wouldn't occasional splurge at times like when there are koban deals. New paying players also had to start from somewhere. If the game's too hard at the beginning, they are less likely to stay longer to do whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowman22 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 5 hours ago, jaybee said: ... In the old system basically 90% of the players got the event girls in 1-4 days with very little effort. A mere 10% needed a lot of effort or failed to get the girls. It would be fair for the same percentage to fight full 6 days for an event girl or use kobans at the end. Looking at contest results, by day 5-6 many players were buying fights already. I literally never saw koban spending during 12-day events before but free fight results are so desperately bad that players are forced to do that now. I gotta call you on this. People who have done the stats will tell you that in the old days the drop rate on a 12 day event was about 1.5 girls. Every event lots of people got zero girls. Under the new system people are reporting 250-350 fights / girl so 5-7 days. Yes almost nobody gets a girl on day 1-3 but way more get the girl on days 5-7. Your personal experience may vary (that is how stats work) but a fair evaluation is that for most players the event girl drop rate is higher and the variability is lower. And the next time these girls come around all those partial girls WILL start dropping on day 1. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackMacKenzie Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 3 hours ago, jaybee said: This game does it all the time because for some reason it wants to appeal to beginner players. Possibly. Or they do it to limit our ability to pad our ymen income. 3 hours ago, Lhans said: They're the ones who pad up the numbers in arena, ToF, clubs. Besides, being casual doesn't mean that they wouldn't occasional splurge at times like when there are koban deals. New paying players also had to start from somewhere. If the game's too hard at the beginning, they are less likely to stay longer to do whatever. Actually, AFAIK there's very little need for the casual/free player in most of those areas, Clubs being the possible exception. And since Clubs still haven't been fleshed out with any of the planned/proposed functionality, they don't matter much either. If every free/casual player quit today, would it make a whit of difference? All our accounts remain in play forever whether we're active, have quit playing the game or literally dropped dead. I already encounter TONS of players who are dormant in Contests and have since I started playing. I doubt I'd be able to win anywhere near as often as I do if the entire group of 50 was semi-active or better. Currently, dead and comatose accounts help keep the full-time players from dropping below Wanker 3 at the very least, and probably keep them from demoting to Sexpert leagues as well (once they are sufficiently tenured). The only problem I can foresee at the present regarding the need for free/casual players padding numbers is the ongoing start rate. If HH gets the reputation that it isn't worth dabbling in unless your pockets are open and preferably deep, then the casual/free accounts will 'age out' of being able to prevent league demotion (remember the upward tiebreaker is first-come-first-place but the downward tiebreaker is game tenure). So, for those free players who think that their voice matters and can influence things by threatening, striking or quitting, I'm afraid you may be gravely disappointed. This is coming from someone who is themselves on the edge of walking away (in part because of the ToF glitch that in all likelihood cannot be reversed after-the-fact. (I doubt that there is any digital record/trail from which to reconstruct the rewards that were due!) I put in WAY too much time to finish 2nd (trying for 1st, explanation coming in an upcoming post) to see that effort go completely unrewarded. Coupled with the rapid-fire updates that keep skewing the game farther into the realms of p2w, I may not be able to justify staying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cantrix Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, jaybee said: I am still going at the first girl, with 99 shards accumulated. The drop rate is too low definitely. You have to give chances to casual players who miss 20-30% of boss fights because the counter runs full sometimes. Right now players who religiously fight every boss fight available can need more than six days to get one worthless event girl. Either the drop rate of shards has to be seriously increased or the 100 shard drop chance has to be increased to previous levels, so that most of the players would get the girls in 2-4 days with the full drop as before. Fighting six days for an event girl (meaning 300+ fights) has to be extreme bad luck, not a common occurrence. Not true, as a casual player i got Carine on day 4 with free fights and 3refills, Currently on 88shards for Alex WITHOUT any refills. I get 0shard drops on 20 fights occasionally +1 shard after 20 fights drops, but the consecutive +6 +8 hits offset that. It makes the new system feel bad(as random as the previous one- but that's it's effect on emotions) it does it's work well enough. It seems the rarity of the girl affects the maximum amount of shards you can get though. In all my shard drops i got way less shards with Carine than i get with Alex, the whopping 88shards after 2days of only free fights compared to the 4day + 3 refills for Carine. Missing on fights because your combativity bar was cull is your fault entirely, you can't be compensated because you can't play the game. I missed around 10fights today because of full combativity, while i feel bad that's my fault and i don't whine. By your logic should we give cree league rewards for players who aren't able to fight constantly? Ofcourse not. Rewards are EARNED for playing not GIFTED for free- girls are the same. You either- commit and play the game to get the girls you want by managing your time/resources or you don't play miss out and feel disappointed- it's all up to you. Edited March 7, 2019 by Cantrix 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybee Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Yeah, we get it, extreme luck like yours is still possible under the new system. I got Alex after 7 days of fighting and 20+ streaks with no shard drops were the norm, not an exception. In my club everybody who talks needed at least 6 days to get the first girl and everybody was dissatisfied. Event girls are the trash that has been thrown on everybody who bothers to log in from time to time. That's the purpose of event girls. Epic and legendary girls have been created for the hardcore player. The question is in the change of the system. In my club people got antsy after 2-3 days, if the girl had not dropped, because usually 2 days was enough to get a drop. Now this has suddenly extended to 6 days. The average player is dissatisfied and feels it is much harder now. New players starting out - will they have the patience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhans Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 3 hours ago, ZackMacKenzie said: Currently, dead and comatose accounts help keep the full-time players from dropping below Wanker 3 at the very least, and probably keep them from demoting to Sexpert leagues as well (once they are sufficiently tenured). If they were truly dead, they wouldn't have been able to get pass W1. Only way that could have happen is that they were playing, got up to say W3 and then stopping. Inactivity would also get someone demoted automatically after a week. So while some might be up there in S league for now, all dead accounts will be in W1 in a month or so. When that happens we'll actually see the effect of losing free players. Which might leave the low/mid tier utterly gutted - automatic promotion to next league due to low players? Or league not formed due to lack of players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackMacKenzie Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 15 minutes ago, Lhans said: 1) If they were truly dead, they wouldn't have been able to get pass W1. Only way that could have happen is that they were playing, got up to say W3 and then stopping. 2) Inactivity would also get someone demoted automatically after a week. So while some might be up there in S league for now, all dead accounts will be in W1 in a month or so. 3) When that happens we'll actually see the effect of losing free players. Which might leave the low/mid tier utterly gutted - automatic promotion to next league due to low players? 4) Or league not formed due to lack of players. 1) Leagues have been in place for longer than you think. Inactive for 2+ months is essentially dead/comatose, not merely inactive, and that's plenty long enough to have risen and then sifted back down the ladder. (See below.) 2) Not true. I think you're underestimating the number people who go at least 1 week without using a single league token. For example, I can ignore leagues for a month and I won't drop below W3. There are more than enough players with less tenure than I have looking to demote (or are inactive for RL reasons) to keep me out of the bottom 15. Tried it. At least for the time being W3 is as low as i can demote based on my start date and overwhelming demand to demote. In the future that could change if the game's entry rate were to seriously decline. 3) It is conceivable but unlikely that player loss would lead to a 100-player league where someone could promote with 0 points due to massive inactivity. If this were to occur I strongly suspect that action would be taken to fix this problem. 4) This cannot happen under the current system. League levels, once formed, are self-sustaining. The only way leagues could collapse/fail is if they are changed so that long-term inactive accounts are blocked from league eligibility. Things would have to be pretty terrible for the devs to consider doing that, and the cure is almost as bad as the disease. (A purge like that could make the top league revert to the previous level for lack of players (because demotions exceeded promotions long enough to bring its population down below 100.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhans Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 16 minutes ago, ZackMacKenzie said: 2) Not true. I think you're underestimating the number people who go at least 1 week without using a single league token. For example, I can ignore leagues for a month and I won't drop below W3. There are more than enough players with less tenure than I have looking to demote (or are inactive for RL reasons) to keep me out of the bottom 15. Tried it. At least for the time being W3 is as low as i can demote based on my start date and overwhelming demand to demote. In the future that could change if the game's entry rate were to seriously decline. We have a bug then if you aren't automatically being demoted for doing nothing. 22 minutes ago, ZackMacKenzie said: 4) This cannot happen under the current system. League levels, once formed, are self-sustaining. The only way leagues could collapse/fail is if they are changed so that long-term inactive accounts are blocked from league eligibility. Things would have to be pretty terrible for the devs to consider doing that, and the cure is almost as bad as the disease. (A purge like that could make the top league revert to the previous level for lack of players (because demotions exceeded promotions long enough to bring its population down below 100.) It's only self sustaining if there are enough people. If a lot quit, it might take a long while but there might be a few who might get stuck not in league due to lack of people. If leagues are like what 100-105? And for example we have like 370 players in a tier, how would that work out, 3 leagues, and some leftovers? And if they demote, so 15 x 3, or 45 people ain't enough to form a lower league if the ones below it was decimated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChyldeRoland Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 2 hours ago, jaybee said: Yeah, we get it, extreme luck like yours is still possible under the new system. I got Alex after 7 days of fighting and 20+ streaks with no shard drops were the norm, not an exception. In my club everybody who talks needed at least 6 days to get the first girl and everybody was dissatisfied. Event girls are the trash that has been thrown on everybody who bothers to log in from time to time. That's the purpose of event girls. Epic and legendary girls have been created for the hardcore player. The question is in the change of the system. In my club people got antsy after 2-3 days, if the girl had not dropped, because usually 2 days was enough to get a drop. Now this has suddenly extended to 6 days. The average player is dissatisfied and feels it is much harder now. New players starting out - will they have the patience? Just because you are dissatisfied, doesn't mean that the average player is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackMacKenzie Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Lhans said: We have a bug then if you aren't automatically being demoted for doing nothing. Hmm. It seems likely that I foolishly 'gave up' on the last day when it was abundantly clear that I wouldn't be bottom 15, and fought a few battles to time a level up to happen right after a Market refresh. The above would be a better reason than RL issues for why so many people were taking a zero even beyond the bottom 15. FWIW, I don't recall that being the rule when a number of us did some modeling to estimate future events like when D3 would open up, and when the entire league structure would become 'stable'. With the zero rule in play it wouldn't really have been possible to predict when new Leagues would open or even future stability, because it wasn't a sure thing that they would be stable. Under this system, never achieving D3 would be possible, as would seeing D3 last only one week at a time due to overwhelming desire to demote back to D2. This makes tanking even more destructive. Mind. Blown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eman Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Today has been a strange day with the shards, at least for me: I've done 54 fights against Donatien and I only got shards in one of them. Even Karole gives more! So, did I get a day of very, very bad luck or has anyone else experienced something like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhans Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Eman said: Today has been a strange day with the shards, at least for me: I've done 54 fights against Donatien and I only got shards in one of them. Even Karole gives more!So, did I get a day of very, very bad luck or has anyone else experienced something like this? Very, very bad luck. I've heard people go for 40+ fight shard droughts. Edited March 8, 2019 by Lhans 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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