Community Manager Noacc Posted February 17, 2020 Community Manager Share Posted February 17, 2020 @GeorgeMTO That's not the case. The girls will drop before orbs. There an almost non-existing chance, but that's how the system was built. It's not worse by any means. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeMTO Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Noacc said: @GeorgeMTO That's not the case. The girls will drop before orbs. There an almost non-existing chance, but that's how the system was built. It's not worse by any means. Previously it was 100% guaranteed to drop on stage 8, as we were told the bugged affection item drops before all unique rewards had been fixed to no longer be possible. Was this incorrect information? If it's not, and there's now a 0.00001% chance it drops an orb early and a user has to clear a champion for the 9th time in order to get the girl, it is still worse. If it was incorrect information, then I apologise for taking the previous bug fix at its word, and we are indeed in the same situation. As was said on Discord though, I really do have to question whoever thought the originally implemented design was a good idea. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator DvDivXXX Posted February 17, 2020 Moderator Share Posted February 17, 2020 (edited) @Noacc Thanks a lot to the team for reacting quickly and positively to our feedback, and to you (and Lola on the FR section) for keeping us informed. @GeorgeMTO Thanks for clarifying, as Noacc's initial post left that part out (Lola did mention it in the FR version), and you prompted further clarification here as well, which is great. I guess we'll see soon enough how small the chance (or risk, I should say) of getting an orb drop before the girl really is now (both of my current champions are at stage 5 right now, and I have yet to obtain their respective girls, or all of their usual junk items for that matter). If it's a really small risk, then it's technically worse than before the patch, but still a million times better than between the patch and today's adjustment. So, all in all, I'm cautiously optimistic that this is a solid compromise. Most of the other patch changes are great, and if the one huge issue that came with it has been heavily reduced, then I'm very satisfied. Of course, it sucks for the players who got an orb drop during the transition period, especially someone like @Sam Hentaires who was at the 8th pass on Alban, and missed out on Shturpa, but it's thanks to those players' unfortunate experiences that we were able to confirm the issue, give feedback about it, and eventually get it fixed (hopefully). You guys took one for the team, and I'm very grateful for that. Best of luck in your extra runs against these champs! Edited February 17, 2020 by DvDivXXX 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben9 Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 Great news about fixing the drops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo_le_Salomo Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 2 hours ago, Noacc said: Hey, guys. I've posted this on discord and will post it on the patch notes. Due to recent community feedback, we've re-balanced the Girls from Champions to be obtainable before the Pachinko Orbs. Yay thx, im happy bout this 2 hours ago, GeorgeMTO said: Clarity for everyone else: This is not guaranteed. It's just now the more likely outcome. It's still a worse situation than it was before the patch. dont be a so damn pessimist ;^) yes the chance to get the girl until the 8th run isnt 100% but, if i understood right, is the chance to get the girl bevor run 8 bigger, or? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karyia Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Leo_le_Salomo said: dont be a so damn pessimist ;^) yes the chance to get the girl until the 8th run isnt 100% but, if i understood right, is the chance to get the girl bevor run 8 bigger, or? lol He's not pessimistic... he's factual And rightfully so. In essence, we don't know what the chance was before (after the patch), nor do we know what the chance is now (after the re-balance). Not that I'm doubting anything... we just don't know. What @GeorgeMTO is correctly calling attention to, is that before you would 100% get the girl at the 8th try, at most. Right now, there's a (unspecified) chance that that doesn't happen. And to avoid any wrong interpretations or disappointments, he tried to clarify how things really are, which I'm (personally) grateful for 👍 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaybeRegret Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 15 minutes ago, Karyia said: Right now If I get it right, earlier the probability of getting a girl on the 8th try was also 99.99999%, it just that affection item always has 0,00001% droprate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karyia Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 Just now, MaybeRegret said: If I get it right, earlier the probability of getting a girl on the 8th try was also 99.99999%, it just that affection item always has 0,00001% droprate. I can only speak of what I've heard but before, NOT getting the girl before the item was unheard of. After the patch, it started happening. Hopefully, it won't from now on. But it's better to ask and know that it IS possible, than wrongly think it is not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniele Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 30 minutes ago, Karyia said: I can only speak of what I've heard but before, NOT getting the girl before the item was unheard of. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karyia Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Daniele said: ... until now 😂 Thanks for the info! 👌 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jelom Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 Excellent news. 😍 Thanks @Noacc and all Kinkoid team for correcting the problem with the orbs as a 5 stage reward, and also giving us a clue of how the prizes system works in champions Now the patch have almost no cons (except for the overestimated loss of money complaints, of course). Although technically @GeorgeMTO is right, this time i must say he is worrying people without reason. If the orb drop rate has been lowered to 1% or less (and by noacc words it seems a lot lower), you can be sure that it could add one more level at most and that only for a tiny portion of players. Well, I am now waiting for all negative posters to apologize. As you can see Kinkoid has implemented an excellent feature and even corrected the main caveat it had on popular request. I think the player most affected for good will be ... @Observer_X Now with orbs he can play pachinko for free. Remember he is playing in hard mode without using kobans. I just expect he won't decide to play without orbs too. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chthugha Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 18 minutes ago, jelom said: Excellent news. 😍 Thanks @Noacc and all Kinkoid team for correcting the problem with the orbs as a 5 stage reward, and also giving us a clue of how the prizes system works in champions Now the patch have almost no cons (except for the overestimated loss of money complaints, of course). Although technically @GeorgeMTO is right, this time i must say he is worrying people without reason. If the orb drop rate has been lowered to 1% or less (and by noacc words it seems a lot lower), you can be sure that it could add one more level at most and that only for a tiny portion of players. Well, I am now waiting for all negative posters to apologize. As you can see Kinkoid has implemented an excellent feature and even corrected the main caveat it had on popular request. I think the player most affected for good will be ... @Observer_X Now with orbs he can play pachinko for free. Remember he is playing in hard mode without using kobans. I just expect he won't decide to play without orbs too. The issue here is that the information given to us was either wrong in the previous system or now. Before the orbs it didn't show the gifts on the 5th stages before getting the rest. I got one anyway (see the linked thread that Daniele posted). So if the system was the same, which seems likely now looking back at things, then I wonder why it was never mentioned in the notes about champions at the time nor was it displayed in the little pop-up screen in the game. The orbs are displayed. Even if the chance is very small, it is possible, so it should be displayed. Apart from that, I applaud the change they made. It is not easy to make the right decision, and I think they did. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antimon Posted February 17, 2020 Author Share Posted February 17, 2020 Huge thanks from me, too. The "champions rewards issue" was my only complaint regarding this patch note. I really appreciate this step back in players' favor you made. 👏👏👏 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linkdream Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Chthugha said: So if the system was the same, which seems likely now looking back at things, then I wonder why it was never mentioned in the notes about champions at the time nor was it displayed in the little pop-up screen in the game. The orbs are displayed. Even if the chance is very small, it is possible, so it should be displayed. When it comes to new features, did they ever post a correct and precise patch note? I don't think so. They have always been ambiguous/vague at best and lying/erroneous at worst. It'd be a lot better to send the tech lead to do the job at this rate because all the poor CMs are collecting are rotten tomatoes. Edited February 17, 2020 by linkdream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer_X Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 15 hours ago, GeorgeMTO said: If you didn't get it to work, I feel that's user error, as I did it, and following my instructions two more people were also able to use the TAB button to save them from scrolling, while still having to click. It does work. I never said your 5 minutes was miles away from the estimation. Just that you are slow if you take that long, again, backed up by another user testing it and being faster for less girls. I understand these features are worse for you because you are slow at parts of them, but that is not necessarily the average. Again, tab scrolling would save time for you trying to find girls since it skips to them, I really do recommend trying again to get it to work. Just to be clear: when I said that the tab scrolling never functioned for me, I meant that I have tried several times over time in different ways, and always with no success. Regarding the quickness, apart the efficiency of the tab scrolling, given the past complaints about the slowness of the harem page, I am prone to think that the situation is nearer to the average than you think. 15 hours ago, GeorgeMTO said: Oh. I wasn't aware you were making such a distinction, because that was irrelevant to what I considered the topic at hand: Ymen income has been increased over the last several months. It increased the income for those with and without a monthly card. Yes paying players get more, but don't focus on what you don't have, focus on what you do. My point was consequential to the above discussion about the slowness, so I see no point to continue with this anymore. 15 hours ago, GeorgeMTO said: I did not say it was increased enough to cover for the loss. Your income is increased the MOMENT you start fighting a boss in a higher level than before the tier system allowed. By a lot? God no. But increased, yes. If you haven't fought any of the bosses in a higher tier yet, then sure you haven't increased your income [although I question how since there's been a LOT of event girls on Dark Lord/Donatien], but you do have the potential to do so for future events. Yes it takes time to scale up the income, but if they give us 12 months on the system, it's not a reasonable comparison to say that feature has allowed us to increase our income enough to accomodate for the loss, because many people will have had their income stabilise over that time period. As it is, we've had time to get a small increase, and we can continue to improve that increase with future events. All true, but what I get from your answers on this point is that you are satisfied enough with the situation as it is, while, as you surely guessed, I am not. I would have preferred by far those 12 months you mentioned and the income stabilization. 15 hours ago, GeorgeMTO said: Reroll is only available on the x10 roll to the best of my knowledge. I haven't obtained a girl from a single since it was added so I can't verify for myself, but comments from others have said they didn't get to. Thanks also to @Karyia and @~Crown Clown for the confirmations. Now I can explain better, and unluckily... 1 hour ago, jelom said: I think the player most affected for good will be ... @Observer_X Now with orbs he can play pachinko for free. Remember he is playing in hard mode without using kobans. I just expect he won't decide to play without orbs too. ... I fear I will have to delude you, my friend. The point here is that people still didn't remember that I am one of the players that don't follow the "gonna get 'em all" trend. This means that I prefer to avoid the risk to obtain some girls in the Epic Pachinko (the first that come to mind are Octavia and Vissihar, but there are others I don't remember the name in this moment). Even in the case that the reroll option would have been available, my no koban policy (in absence of reroll orbs) would have hindered me for the time being. With that option unavailable, to avoid unwanted insertions in my harem I will need to ditch the use of Epic Pachinko x1 orbs, thus renouncing to the load of sellable items along with that. Luckily, the Mythic Pachinko orbs go on a selection basis, so I will be able to make use of those, but in order to have a chance to get a girl that I want, apart having a selection of only one girl (or at least of two or three girl I like), given the drop chance I will need to amass a huge load of orbs, and that will require a long time. At least now I will probably need only two years to get Shtupra instead of ten. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karyia Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 8 hours ago, Observer_X said: ... I fear I will have to delude you, my friend. The point here is that people still didn't remember that I am one of the players that don't follow the "gonna get 'em all" trend. This means that I prefer to avoid the risk to obtain some girls in the Epic Pachinko (the first that come to mind are Octavia and Vissihar, but there are others I don't remember the name in this moment). Even in the case that the reroll option would have been available, my no koban policy (in absence of reroll orbs) would have hindered me for the time being. With that option unavailable, to avoid unwanted insertions in my harem I will need to ditch the use of Epic Pachinko x1 orbs, thus renouncing to the load of sellable items along with that. Luckily, the Mythic Pachinko orbs go on a selection basis, so I will be able to make use of those, but in order to have a chance to get a girl that I want, apart having a selection of only one girl (or at least of two or three girl I like), given the drop chance I will need to amass a huge load of orbs, and that will require a long time. 😱😱😱 @Observer_X game mode only indeed 👍 8 hours ago, Observer_X said: At least now I will probably need only two years to get Shtupra instead of ten. 😅😂😂😂 Hmmm.. when we're about one year away, some new patch or whatever will probably extend that estimate 🤣 By then, Shtupra's daughter will be the new bomb! 😏👌 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiel Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 On 2/16/2020 at 1:03 PM, jelom said: Q: Is there a limit on how many Orbs you can stash?A: No, you can stash as many as you want, we are not limiting you. -> Good for thrifty people. Thank you so much for this🤗 This answered one of the questions I had. The other question I have is: Can the Champions still reach Infinite Difficulty levels? It would be kind of cool if we could cool-down the Champion levels, and make it decrease by 1 if they are inactive or 2 or 3 days. Alternatively if the Champions had a level cap, it would also put my mind more at ease. The thought of fighting a level 1000 champion is kind of scary, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaa Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 @Noacc firstly thanks for the fast rebalancing, great work there. Secondly, do you think, you could share what the thought process was changing the date of the patch notes? It feels really unease not to know what could happen tomorrow - especially since every game patch could hold significant game changes. But I am sure, there must have been some good reasons for changing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Community Manager Noacc Posted February 18, 2020 Community Manager Share Posted February 18, 2020 @blaa This way the team can be more agile when announcing stuff and potentially include some new improvements/fixes. Also, if the feature is not ready to go live, this opens more time for testing, fixing, polishing, etc. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceHardwood Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 (edited) 18 hours ago, jelom said: Although technically @GeorgeMTO is right, this time i must say he is worrying people without reason. If the orb drop rate has been lowered to 1% or less (and by noacc words it seems a lot lower), you can be sure that it could add one more level at most and that only for a tiny portion of players. Well, I am now waiting for all negative posters to apologize. As you can see Kinkoid has implemented an excellent feature and even corrected the main caveat it had on popular request. I very much appreciate that the Orb drops have been corrected on champions and the fact that the developers have shown consideration for their players even if delayed. However, it is concerning is how things are being communicated and acted upon. First of all are the patch notes, which indicates the dev team anticipated how players would react to champion changes, but they went ahead with it anyway. Next, there were several days of silence or outright avoiding the question under the appearance of answering it, which only served to exacerbate frustration. If they had chosen to be forthcoming with their reasons, they could have generated a lot of goodwill as that would make players feel like they're having a productive discussion with the developers. I sincerely hope this is not intentional but rather due to communication issues should be addressed. That will benefit not only players, but also Kinkoid's image immensely. 16 hours ago, linkdream said: When it comes to new features, did they ever post a correct and precise patch note? I don't think so. They have always been ambiguous/vague at best and lying/erroneous at worst. It'd be a lot better to send the tech lead to do the job at this rate because all the poor CMs are collecting are rotten tomatoes. I believe the word you're looking for is misrepresenting, rather than lying. In this case especially it fits well, as technical details were communicated using non-technical explanation/language creating different expectations compared to the reality. This type of language can be found in other places in the game as well, indicating a more general issue, not just in patch notes. Edited February 18, 2020 by LanceHardwood 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator DvDivXXX Posted February 18, 2020 Moderator Share Posted February 18, 2020 7 hours ago, LanceHardwood said: communication issues should be addressed. That will benefit not only players, but also Kinkoid's image immensely. What did I tell you? Communication is Kinkoid's biggest weakness (with timing sometimes a close second), unfortunately. They've been doing a lot of great stuff over the past few months (except for the art quality, but that's a separate issue, and they've at least acknowledged it), but a good chunk of it went either unnoticed, or at least didn't get the praise it deserved, due to communication issues (and poor timing, in some cases). Of course, players tend to be more vocal when they're dissatisfied than when they're satisfied, and that's on the community (and customers in general), not on the devs, but still. With just a few changes in what they communicate, when and how, they could have scored a lot of good-will points since at least October, that they missed out on despite deserving them. I'm still shocked at how little positive response they received for awesome gestures like Mizuki's gift, or the clean Sex Friends cross-promo interface to replace the buggy popup system, or the greatness of Hentai Clicker's event format, for that matter (different game, I know, but same devs, same universe, and a lot of overlap in the player base). I think, all things considered, this patch, the issue it initially brought (which prevented many of us to focus on the cool additions), and how it was resolved in a timely and reasonable manner, that was a step in the right direction. There's a lot of room for improvement in this area, still, but I think that's the general idea behind the new weekly patch schedule. If the devs try new things with more flexibility and while being open to our feedback, and we don't jump at their throats about each problematic change, but give them constructive feedback with each patch (including what needs to be adjusted), and they react accordingly, we should all have a lot to gain from this process. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceHardwood Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said: I think, all things considered, this patch, the issue it initially brought (which prevented many of us to focus on the cool additions), and how it was resolved in a timely and reasonable manner, that was a step in the right direction. Actually it was neither, which I specifically wanted to point out. The issue was apparent within hours of patch deployment and could have been solved next-day. Not only it wasn't, but instead we received a non-answer specifically avoiding the issue. That's not reasonable, nor forthcoming behavior. It was specifically meant to obfuscate what was being said. I give them props for adjusting the champion orbs, but not for the way it happened. Don't let the good blind you to what's still a significant issue. Edited February 18, 2020 by LanceHardwood 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator DvDivXXX Posted February 18, 2020 Moderator Share Posted February 18, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, LanceHardwood said: Don't let the good blind you to what's still a significant issue. I don't. Read my post again: I did say this was a step in the right direction, because it used to be worse, and I feel it's improving. We've had a few tense days with a very big issue introduced by the patch and the devs seemingly ignoring it by mentioning the issue but providing an unrelated answer in their FAQ. That was the bad communication part. Still, a few days later, they had a very encouraging and reasonable reaction: they changed their plan according to our feedback, and actually fixed the issue. That's the good part, and that's here to stay, contrary to the bad part which only lasted a few days. Don't let that hiccup make you ignore the positive conclusion, either. Edited February 18, 2020 by DvDivXXX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceHardwood Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 (edited) 30 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said: I don't. Read my post again: I did say this was a step in the right direction, because it used to be worse, and I feel it's improving. We've had a few tense days with a very big issue introduced by the patch and the devs seemingly ignoring it by mentioning the issue but providing an unrelated answer in their FAQ. That was the bad communication part. Still, a few days later, they had a very encouraging and reasonable reaction: they changed their plan according to our feedback, and actually fixed the issue. That's the good part, and that's here to stay, contrary to the bad part which only lasted a few days. Don't let that hiccup make you ignore the positive conclusion, either. I have to disagree - it's not a step in any direction really because: The devs knew the impact on champions and what feedback players would have in advance, yet they went through with it - patch notes are the proof. The unrelated answer was intentional as it is nearly impossible to misunderstand such a direct question, also compare to other perfectly answered questions in the same FAQ. The stalling begs the logical conclusion that they weren't waiting for feedback, they were considering if they can get away with this very deliberately implemented negative impact. Separately those facts could mean anything, but combined they mean just one thing - the developers tried to do this and see if players would take it. Even if they didn't, they score "good points", by "acknowledging" player feedback and "fixing" an issue they knew they would have. Further, there's absolutely no indication that this modus operandi is about to change at this point. The only thing improved is that instead of hidden legendary items now we get visible orbs as additional items on champions. This could have been the case from the start, instead of a significant amount of players losing entire 5 stage runs to crappy RNG. Edited February 19, 2020 by LanceHardwood 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelinor Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 2 hours ago, LanceHardwood said: I have to disagree - it's not a step in any direction really because: The devs knew the impact on champions and what feedback players would have in advance, yet they went through with it - patch notes are the proof. The unrelated answer was intentional as it is nearly impossible to misunderstand such a direct question, also compare to other perfectly answered questions in the same FAQ. The stalling begs the logical conclusion that they weren't waiting for feedback, they were considering if they can get away with this very deliberately implemented negative impact. Separately those facts could mean anything, but combined they mean just one thing - the developers tried to do this and see if players would take it. Even if they didn't, they score "good points", by "acknowledging" player feedback and "fixing" an issue they knew they would have. Further, there's absolutely no indication that this modus operandi is about to change at this point. They did not get "good points" from me. They lost $65 straight up as I chose not to purchase their two treasure chest bundles. I have also elected not to move from a gold card to the platinum card, so there is another $20 per month they will not get from this player. I like the new orbs, but changes that affect ongoing gameplay should never occur during an activity that is already happening. The customer may not always be right, but the customer does deserve honest and respectful treatment, and in this case, we received neither, which I find to be very offensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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