New Feature: The Labyrinth - Started December 6th 2023 at live

[Rylarth]

My main Issue with the Labyrinth is not the Gameplay as a whole its somewhat intriguing and interesting its the fact that there is NO Logical sense in the rewards if this is to become a semi decent way to get missed girls which is what I think many people hoped it would be it needs some sort of rebalance of the rewards for example how does it make any sense that a Common 5 star costs the same amount of Coins as a Legendary 5 star girl and 10% extra coins isnt as good selling point as Kinkoid might assume if the Coin amount you get is abyssmal enough to begin with i dont consider 1 Girl a month for 15-25Min extra Playing on average each day to be anything Crazy as a semi Decent Reward and increasing the Reward might actually be a Good thing in the Long run because if a Player is happy with the game they are Playing they are more Likely to support that game in the Long run and Happy customers are way better for a company than pissed of eventually Leaving customers thats just a Fact Hope Kinkoid balance it eventually Like they did with Girl equipment will try to stay more positive for the Love Labyrinth because I really Like the idea of the Concept i just think it needs some adjustments to be a more Liked hopefully permanent feature of the Game🙏

Edited December 15, 2023 by Rylarth

[Vovantillo]

В 15.12.2023 в 08:57, DvDivXXX сказал:

Хотя из головы:

1. «Танки»; (HC) в настоящее время не танкует из-за какой-то ошибки. «Маги»; (CH) на самом деле более живучие, чем они, помимо увеличения скорости и/или многих или чего-то еще. По сути, если вы не выбираете автоматически 70 девушек, не выбирайте ни одну девушку из HC. Сейчас нужно настроить только два класса: KH («Держатели урона»)  как ваш ДПС и CH как ваши танки.
    
2. Реликвии не только не приносят с собой, некоторые должны, но вместо этого дают отрицательный эффект. «Защитный пузырь»; тем более, никогда не выбираю это.
    
3. <а я=0> Если вы автоматически выберете 70 девушек, вы получите массу девушек из HC (и опять же, на момент написания этой статьи вам не нужна ни одна) и очень мало или даже не будет девушек из CH (которые вам действительно нужны). Кроме того, если вы начнете выбирать участников вручную, вам ДОЛЖНЫ пройти весь текст: нажать «Автовыбор»; Когда у вас, например, 50/70, ваш список НЕ будет завершен, выбрав еще 20 девушек (как я и ожидал): вместо этого ваш выбор заменится 70 автовыборами. И вы не можете сначала автоматически выбрать, а затем удалить и добавить отдельные девушки: вы можете только еще раз нажать на автовыбор, чтобы вернуться к 0/70. TL;DR: Я знаю, что это не идеально, но в настоящее время я рекомендую выбрать 70 девушек вручную (около 10-20 KH для вашего DPS, с большим запасом, поскольку вам редко нужно больше 5, а 50-60 CH для ваших одноразовых резервуаров).

Это все, что приходит на ум.

I don’t really bother with the choice (the strength of my automatically selected girls) is enough to complete all three stages, pick up all the bags and kill all the bosses. Although in the last two years Labi recruited girls manually, I thought that this would change something. I put 2 tanks in 1 line, the second middle is a damage dealer along the lines of magicians, and the back line is two damage dealers. I mainly hit the red units to get both fists and kisses.

Edited December 16, 2023 by Vovantillo

[Karxan]

um, i don't think this is working...

[DvDivXXX]

20 hours ago, Horsting said:

Furthermore, if KK would start to announce features on test server, invite for testing and actively react and fix bugs reported there, I am pretty sure this would be used more, covering a larger player/system base, making it even more valuable.

To me, the thing they'd need to do to make it more useful and valuable is making our TS accounts clones of our main accounts, so we can actually test things in a setting we're used to, at our full capacity, and without having to jump through long-forgotten early-game hoops and making do with a noobie account (for most of us) which is rarely enough to get a real feel for whatever we're supposed to test.

18 hours ago, Rylarth said:

Common 5 star costs the same amount of Coins as a Legendary 5 star

Damn, I didn't even suspect Commons could show up in there (let alone evergreen ones anyone can eventually complete for free).

1 hour ago, Karxan said:

um, i don't think this is working...

There's a scroll bar at the bottom. It's orange on an orange background, which makes it barely visible. This has been reported and discussed earlier on during the test phase. Your mouse wheel should also work (might depend on your browser, but it works on both Brave and FireFox for me).

[Lapokabo]

Beware ! New daily goal concerning the Labyrinth. Does it mean one shouldn't complete the Labyrinth on day 1 in case the goal appears on the second day ? Or Kinkoid won't put such goal on day 2 ?

[Tom208]

il y a 11 minutes, Lapokabo a dit :

Beware ! New daily goal concerning the Labyrinth. Does it mean one shouldn't complete the Labyrinth on day 1 in case the goal appears on the second day ? Or Kinkoid won't put such goal on day 2 ?

The second one. You can't have a daily goal relative to the labyrinth that is impossible to perform.

[renalove]

The reward kiss and CP seem to depend on the hero's level. That sounds a bit unfair.

Level	Kiss	CP
205	1	1
444	2	2
537	3	3

[Horsting]

Uh, fully agreed. For XP and money it is okay, as both scale, but for CP and kisses this is problematic: They do not gain or loose value with level, but can make quite a significant difference during certain events, like KC just now and LD before. This should be the same for all players.

Edited December 16, 2023 by Horsting

[jelom]

16 minutes ago, renalove said:

The reward kiss and CP seem to depend on the hero's level. That sounds a bit unfair.

[SamRei]

22 hours ago, Rylarth said:

[...] if this is to become a semi decent way to get missed girls which is what I think many people hoped it would be[...]

Ok, time and again they threw into your face, they don't want to give you a convinient or cheap (<-never that) way to get girls you missed. They removed the feature that would have given you that. They WANT you to pay and give them money using FOMO at every step of the way, that's a huge part of the business model.

Having Lab every 2 days, getting roughly 2k of the currency, means in 60 days, you get 60K of it, you have to pay 13k for 20% of the new girl, so around 65K, and didn't someone say the girl is around for 60 days before the next one? (might have misread that though)

Survey are a special kind of poison too, they just test the waters, see with how much they can get away with, and how fast. It's never about what the players want, it's about what pays off and how fast you can implement it.

Played enough of these games to know that, you just have to deal with that, it won't change and makes perfect sense in the heads of the management.

Edited December 16, 2023 by SamRei

[bolitho76]

1 hour ago, SamRei said:

and didn't someone say the girl is around for 60 days before the next one?

They add a new girl to the Labyrinth after 60 days, but the actual girl you are working on will stay until you got her - like in Leagues or the PoPs.

1 hour ago, SamRei said:

Having Lab every 2 days, getting roughly 2k of the currency

Yes, that's the situation at the moment. But have in mind we have only 1/3 of the whole feature avalaible. Until we get the informations how KK think the normal and the hard stage will have rewards and how we have to deal with the different stages (can we play all, have we to choose one) we can't make a solid conclusion how much of the Labyrinth coins we really get in the long run.

For the first cycle we got some free Labyrinth currency from Bundles and codes and thanks to the testing time with the fast Labyrinth cycles all should be able to gain the girl in the fist cycle if they don't avoid this by a) buying other stuff and b) avoiding the Labyrinth-coin-bags like DvDivXXX.

The main problem isn't the amout of Labyrinth coins we get at the moment, it's more the problem that we again got a feature that is at best half-cooked and far away from being completed. With only a small part of the whole thing it's easy to get a missleading sight on the whole feature. The only thing in my eyes is to wait until KK release more informations about the other stages of the Labyrinth and the rules how to play with more than one stage.

3 hours ago, renalove said:

The reward kiss and CP seem to depend on the hero's level. That sounds a bit unfair.

Level	Kiss	CP
205	1	1
444	2	2
537	3	3

I wouldn't be surprised if there is another bracket above lvl700 with 4/4 reward (or at least planned to implement if a player get near this lvl).

[Tom208]

It's also 2/2 reward at lvl 344.
So, the rewards probably follow this pattern:

• 1/1 from lvl 1 to lvl 300 (or lvl 299)
• 2/2 from lvl 300 (or lvl 301) to lvl 500 (or lvl 499)
• 3/3 from lvl 500 (or lvl 501) to lvl ??? (700 maybe ?)

[Horsting]

It's 2/2 also on level 255:

Probably:

• 1/1: 1 - 250
• 2/2: 251 - 500
• 3/3: 501 - 750?

[Rylarth]

2 hours ago, SamRei said:

 

Having Lab every 2 days, getting roughly 2k of the currency, means in 60 days, you get 60K of it, you have to pay 13k for 20% of the new girl, so around 65K, and didn't someone say the girl is around for 60 days before the next one? (might have misread that though)

 

Yea i know Kinkoid says that she will still be available after the 60days that doesnt fill me with confidence that it will remain true though since Kinkoid have gone back on their words and promises way to many times in the Past for me to treat them as a trust worthy Company if a dude tells you he will not smack you in the head and then continues to smack you in the head would you still believe Him? Trust is not something i take too Lightly for me it takes years for me to decide if i fully trust someone

[jelom]

1 hour ago, bolitho76 said:

Until we get the informations how KK think the normal and the hard stage will have rewards and how we have to deal with the different stages (can we play all, have we to choose one) we can't make a solid conclusion how much of the Labyrinth coins we really get in the long run.

It WILL BE like this when harder difficulties will be implemented:

- At start of every lab season you will have only the easy level available

- When you finish the easy level then the normal level will unlock and you will be able to play it with your remaining girls form the easy level.

- Once you have completed the normal level you will unlock hard mode and you will play with your remaining girls.

- You won't be able to repeat any of the levels once finished, nor you will be able to cancel and restart it again any level. 

Anything different would be an insult to all games in history and of course to our intelligence.

[Horsting]

55 minutes ago, jelom said:

Anything different would be an insult to all games in history and of course to our intelligence.

Not sure if I get that (or are you just joking?). The way you expect it does not make sense to me: As it is common to loose some girls on easy already, it seems impossible to reach and beat the hard floors if lost girls remain lost. Furthermore, I do not get the point then why one would split if into 3 difficulties, instead of just extending a single difficulty to 9 floors and skip the overhead of more buttons/code etc for the artificial double-split. I am hence pretty sure you start with individual 70 girls on every difficulty and the question is only whether you can do all of them or only one of them.

Probably I do not know other games which compare to this, but even if: Why would one follow other game's system if it just does not make sense. But probably I miss something, and it does make sense.

Edited December 16, 2023 by Horsting

[SamRei]

It's likely you will have to choose which difficulty you want and then have to stick with it for the run (48 hours)

 

I would predict if you lose 20 girls on easy, you should calculate 60 on normal and no chance for you peasant in hard mode, while you reward will go up around, maybe 50%

[Horsting]

2 minutes ago, SamRei said:

It's likely you will have to choose which difficulty you want and then have to stick with it for the run (48 hours)

I guess so as well, because otherwise the rewards would break the marked completely. Already now KC became quite cheap, DP easier and for PoA it will be a massive help as well.

[EpicBacon]

4 hours ago, jelom said:

It WILL BE like this when harder difficulties will be implemented:

- At start of every lab season you will have only the easy level available

- When you finish the easy level then the normal level will unlock and you will be able to play it with your remaining girls form the easy level.

- Once you have completed the normal level you will unlock hard mode and you will play with your remaining girls.

- You won't be able to repeat any of the levels once finished, nor you will be able to cancel and restart it again any level. 

This seems like a terrible idea, while this could work in other roguelike games where you are in control, it does not lend itself especially well to the way labyrinth works in this game.
You are going to loose girls, even on the easier difficulties. If you encounter an enemy team that has a speed advantage over you, the enemy team is going to devastate your frontline.
And even if you get the correct relics, and setup situations where your girls can heal if they defeat a girl, this is not reliable.
The turn order might not work out, the weak girls might get killed by your other girls before the frontline gets their turn, and when their turn comes up, there might not be any viable targets they can kill. And even if you manage to set it up so there are viable targets, since battles are done by autopilot, the girls that needs healing might not attack the one you need for them to get healing. Girls are a resource in the labyrinth, you are expected to loose some, that is why you are allowed to bring in 7 full teams.

If you make it so you have to carry on with the girls left over with each mode, you are severly restricting what you can and cannot do on the floors. Oh you want to do this hard fight? Well, the entire enemy team has more speed then your team, if you take this fight, you'll be down two girls. But if you don't take the fight, you might miss out on that sweet mythic or legendary relic you need to get past the next fight with minimal damage.

In an easy mode run of the labyrinth, I usually loose 10-15 girls, depending on what relics and route I get.
My last run I ended up with 10 Tired and 16 partially damaged girls.

That is 26/70 girls allready gone from my girl pool, It's over 1/3rd, 37%
Lets say that the normal mode of the laby is double as hard, but due to some good relics, maybe I only loose 50% of my girls this run, another 35 girls gone.

Am I supposed to defeat hard mode with 9 girls only?
Sure I could Tora Tora Tora some of the low health girls to soak up some damage, but after that the only option would be to use rejuv stones to revive everyone.
Now I am sure that whatever gold you'll get in normal and hard would probably pay for a rejuv stone or two, but that is only if you happen to get them in the store, And we also do not know how hard "hard" is going to be.
This is also very depended on the random selection of relics.
If you happen to only get offered "Curse" or "berserk" relics, your hard mode run is going to be a struggle, and whatever benefits you are getting from completing it is going to be negated by the rejuv stone cost.

As several other people have mentioned here, the obvious way to do laby is you get to choose what difficulty you want to run, and that is the run you get for the next 48hour cycle.
It would be nice if you were able to abandon a run if you feel like its too hard, and then be allowed to enter a lower difficulty one, so you can get a completion done.
Completing a laby run should be more profitable then getting halfway in one.

Of cource then we run into problem with how rewards in the laby is going to be handled, easiest would probably be for the laby to remember how many floors you have done, and not give any rewards for completed floors incase you start a new run. Another option would be for the rewards in the laby to stay in the laby until its completed, and when you finish off the final boss, you get the payout of all the rewards you have accumilated so far in the run.

The most important part tho is the get the bugs fixed, make sure the relics, skills and stats work before you add more features and balances the laby around faulty or broken features.

TL;DR - No.

[jelom]

The point is not what we want, but what it will finally be, and the most logical outcome is what I said before,

And of course the idea of keeping ALL the rewards locked until you defeat the final boss is the worst of all. Imagine you don't defeat the boss because you are on hard mode or just because you forget to do it before reset.

[Horsting]

1 hour ago, jelom said:

the most logical outcome is what I said before

Luckily I see no logic in it, and the one and only rogue-like game I play(ed) by times does not work like this either 😅. We will see. If anyone from KK is ever reading this thread, then at least it cannot hurt to have some alternatives discussed, and why which would not work well in HH and clones.

[DvDivXXX]

11 hours ago, jelom said:

The point is not what we want, but what it will finally be, and the most logical outcome is what I said before

To be perfectly clear, that's still just a guess on your part, right? It's not some alpha/beta-tester insider knowledge you're basing this on?

Apart from that, I wouldn't necessarily see a problem with what you described, as long as we also keep our relics along the way. That's how most rogue-likes work: if it's a fresh run, then it's a fresh run: you keep no penalty but no bonus either from the previous run. If it's essentially the next, tougher chapter in the same run (which would match your description of Easy into Normal into Hard with the same girl pool), then you keep the handicaps but also the bonuses you've accumulated along the way in previous chapters.

[jelom]

8 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

To be perfectly clear, that's still just a guess on your part, right? It's not some alpha/beta-tester insider knowledge you're basing this on?

I am honored that you could think that I could have more info than you, but no, I don't. How could I have enough free time to play more? And If I were a secret early tester I would at least be in discord, don't you agree?

It is only a deduction from my part, in most games you don't jump into harder levels until you have cleared the easy ones. Think of the labyrinth as of a dungeon, even when you can do multiple runs of it you still have to pass for all levels each time.

Your indication that relics shoud carry on from one difficulty to the next is very coherent if the final model is similar at what I said.

[EpicBacon]

16 hours ago, jelom said:

The point is not what we want, but what it will finally be, and the most logical outcome is what I said before,

And of course the idea of keeping ALL the rewards locked until you defeat the final boss is the worst of all. Imagine you don't defeat the boss because you are on hard mode or just because you forget to do it before reset.

of cource this is just options I came up while writing the post, its not something I spent a long time thinking about.
As for the one you mention here, it would have to come with the additional condition that in the case labyrinth is not completed on reset, it will grant you the rewards you had saved up to that point

[DvDivXXX]

As seen in the QA thread, I've taken a close look at what the brand-new alternative GS5s do in the Labyrinth, and it doesn't look like a full list was posted or discussed much in this thread (closest was a post by Horsting a few pages ago describing some of them) so here goes.

GS5 FOR THE LABYRINTH (all descriptions rephrased by yours truly for more clarity, hopefully):

Blue: PROTECTION Shield 3 other team members for (_%) of their max HP (picked at random)

Red: BURNOUT Damage 2 random opponents for 5% of (their?) max HP for 3 rounds (bypassing Defense)

Dark: SPANK! Deal 100% of Attack damage to a random opponent

Yellow: LOVESTRUCK Has (_%) chance to Stun 2 random opponents for 2 rounds

Orange: REASSURANCE Give +(_%) Defense to all team members for 4 rounds

White: RECOVERY Heal EVERYONE (alive) for (_%) of their max HP

Green: MANA BOOST Give +24 Mana to 2 other team members (picked at random)

Purple: MANA STEAL Steal (_%) of the current Mana from all opponents

---

So, first of all they're all unique: 8 different skills for each of the 8 elements. Additionally, I feel this is important so I'll quote Horsting here:  

On 12/9/2023 at 5:58 PM, Horsting said:

skill levels do not multiply their effect, but add only a smaller bonus. Since bulbs are usually still rare, it hence makes sense to put only 1 into the girls you have skilled for B.D.S.M. already, to unlock the high base skill. I mean currently the Laby is much too easy for this to be necessary at all, but it might change when they fix the bugs and in turn might revert the opponent nerf (partially, at least I would do that), and of course when higher difficulties are unlocked.

So basically in the Labyrinth, a level one GS5 will be almost as useful as a level 4 or 5. Which means in some cases giving just one extra light bulb to the girls in your Laby team could be well worth it (at least for future difficulties).

Now, looking at the individual skills, they're of course not all equal, and it's a bit tough to rank them or even assess some of them correctly due to some bugs and mechanics that are still unclear to me.

White, Dark, Purple, Blue and Red all look very good to me.

Orange sounds like a worse deal than Blue, assuming the "Shield" Blue gives is comparable to the one we have from White and, ironically, Orange in BDSM. A Shield based on a % of Max HP sounds like a whole lot more protection than a simple % increase of Defense. Orange's effect is for the whole team, whereas Blue is "only" for 3 out of 7, but Blue's Shield sounds like a permanent thing (until the end of the fight, that is) as opposed to Orange's Defense boost that expires after 4 rounds.

Green sounds like a way worse deal than Purple, period. The main effect of Purple is that it prevents the opponents from activating their own skills; getting that Mana for yourself is just the cherry on top (and probably amounts to a lot more than Green's 48 points on average). Green only gets two of your team members closer to activating their skills, without doing anything to the opponents.

On top of that, it's unclear where the stolen mana from a Purple skill activation goes (from the description, at least). If it's distributed equally among your whole team, that's nice. But if the Purple girl who stole it keeps it all for herself, then it basically means that once it goes off, your opponents no longer have skills for the rest of the fight. Which would be pretty huge.

On that note, I'm not particularly impressed by the Yellow Stun either, compared to the much stronger effects in the list.

I haven't paid any attention to these, let alone tested them so far. I'll give some of them a try in today's run. In the meantime, if anyone else has had some experience with these or thoughts about them they'd like to share, by all means please do.