New Feature: The Labyrinth - Started December 6th 2023 at live

[OmerB]

I was sure that we will see the first girl in the shop, until we get her, and we'll get the next girl only AFTER getting the 1st one.

But... I'm getting the second girl on the Laby shop on HH and PSH (despite not having the first girl). On CxH, I have the first girl on the Laby shop 🤷‍♂️

[jelom]

My view is exacly the opposite: when a new girl is added to labirinth, it is showed at the next run, and the old girl is queued after her.

You are thinking of a FIFO queue and I am thinking of a LIFO queue.

There is another, more frightening option: If you haven't got any shard of the first labyrinth girl, you lost her forever (until a revival, of course).

[OmerB]

28 minutes ago, jelom said:

My view is exacly the opposite: when a new girl is added to labirinth, it is showed at the next run, and the old girl is queued after her.

You are thinking of a FIFO queue and I am thinking of a LIFO queue.

There is another, more frightening option: If you haven't got any shard of the first labyrinth girl, you lost her forever (until a revival, of course).

It's neither a FIFO nor a LIFO.

I read comments of people getting the 1st or the 2nd girl on all games, it seems random.

[Horsting]

4 hours ago, OmerB said:

I read comments of people getting the 1st or the 2nd girl on all games, it seems random.

I am 99.9% sure this is when Takara shows up at the 2nd spot because you have shards of her already. 100% of all reports I read here have now Jun on 1st permanent slot. So yes, for now, Takara is lost if you did not get any shards of her. I hope some mods can bring (or did already) the wish to KK to switch from LIFO to FIFO, to align with CC, PoPs, league etc.

A reason for LIFO would be to give "Labyrinth seasons" some more meaning. With FIFO the term has not really any meaning, as a season change is invisible for most players. But this could be changed with some larger look&feel changes between the seasons, instead of only showing the other girl on the Laby entry page, which is visible only when you did not select your squad already. Also, the new side quest could be added more prominently to the Laby page(s). I saw an exclamation mark at the adventure button, but did not think that this might be related to a new side quest. I just thought about checking this right now while writing, and indeed: We have a new Laby side quest!

Edited February 4 by Horsting

[bolitho76]

Rosso mentioned at Discord:

[EpicBacon]

On 1/13/2024 at 6:54 PM, Horsting said:

At the start of the battle as well as when Baroque Rabbi (ID 371595204) attacks the first time, her "damage" remains at 55,190. Also the "total_damage" is based on that correctly (55,190-28,179)*2=54,022 and the ego decreased from 268,659 to 268,659-54,022=214,637. Hence now, the Vigorous Motivation relics do NOT work according to these results.

 

UPDATED:
Vigorous Motivation DOES WORK!
And it is good, real good. It is added at the end after all other damage sources are put together.

The initial problem is that it is not added to base damage in the Ajax, and instead are just added together in the total damage number. 

These are all the relics that are effecting Fanny & Fione.

Her Ego is 14% more then base stats
346.668*0.14+346.668 = 395.201.52
The Ajax has her ego at 395.203

Her defence is 6% more then base stats
29.876*0.06+29.876= 31.668.56
The Ajax has her defence at 31.669

Her damage is 5% more then base stats
55.531*0.05+55.531= 58.307.55
The Ajax has her damage as 58.308

I have 2 screenshots from the Ajax responce, the first has Fanny & Fione at full ego (395.203) and another where she is at 72.503 ego remaining, 18.3% of her total ego. If we check against her base ego, she is at 20.9% ego.
This means that if Vigorous Motivation did have an effect, it would have dropped off when her ego dropped below 50%. But as you can see in the Ajax responces, her damage remains constant, regardless of her ego status. It is never added in the first place. I assume berserk works the same way, I will pick one up if I find one, and look at the data.

@Horsting Would you be able to try to explain to me how Total damage is calculated?
Following the example you made, it would seem its girl attack - opponent girl defence then multiply that number by two. I did that with your example, and it checked out.
Trying to do that with my numbers does not seem to work however.
  

My F&F with 58.308 attack is attacking a girl with 27.735 defence.
58.308-27.735 = 30.573.
30.573*2 = 61.146. But the total damage is listed as 68.144.
That is 6998 more damage then its supposed to; or 11.4% more.
I have no idea where this increased damage is coming from, the girl has no bulbs, and there are no other relics that should affect her. Is Vigorious motivation counted twice? I only have 1 for 6%
Not that this should affected this batte, as this was F&F with low hp, defeating an enemy and complete healing herself in the progress. I have two element specific relics, that together adds up to 10.5%, but they are both different elements from F&F

Update:
i chekced the opponent damage, the opponent have damage of 53.168 (it says 53.699 in the screenshot, but its the value after the attack, adding in bulb skill and is not in effect this round)
My girl has 31.669 defence.

53.168-31.669=21.499.
21.499*2 = 42.998, Consistent with the value in the Ajax. The opponent is not getting any extra damage.

Update II:
Okay I figured it out. 
Base damage * Impactful = Modified Damage
(55.531*0.05)+55.531=58.307.55. Rounded up to 58.308

Modified Damage * Vigorous motivation = Actual attack
(58.308*0.06)+58.308= 61.806.48. Rounded up to 61.807

Actual attack - opponent defence *2 = Total Damage
(61.807-27.735)*2 = 68.144



Vigorous Motivation DOES work, the interesting thing is that in my example here, It should NOT have worked, as my girl was at 18.3% ego when doing her attack. I will have to do more testing, but it might be pointing towards it working regardless of your girls ego.

Edited February 4 by EpicBacon
I hate math

[XXDongXX]

4 hours ago, Horsting said:

A reason for LIFO would be to give "Labyrinth seasons" some more meaning. With FIFO the term has not really any meaning, as a season change is invisible for most players. But this could be changed with some larger look&feel changes between the seasons, instead of only showing the other girl on the Laby entry page, which is visible only when you did not select your squad already.

she is visible at the end of the path, at least for me.

[Telum]

1 hour ago, EpicBacon said:

I can confirm this; Vigorous motivation has no effect.

That is ...so unfortunate. 😡

Well, as long as we still have the Medication relic...

[EpicBacon]

3 minutes ago, Telum said:

That is ...so unfortunate. 😡

Well, as long as we still have the Medication relic...

Well it's not added to the base damage stat, but my total damage numbers are up by 11.4% and I have no idea why.
I'll update my post if I figure something out.

[EpicBacon]

1 hour ago, Telum said:

That is ...so unfortunate. 😡

Well, as long as we still have the Medication relic...

Vigorous Motivation does infact work, It was a bit hard to figure out at first, since its only added in the final damage, compared to all the other damage relics who are added to the base number.

[430i]

3 hours ago, bolitho76 said:

Rosso mentioned at Discord:

What does that actually mean? That it can appear if you dont have any shards?

[bolitho76]

That was most of the discussion at Discord to the changed Labyrinth Girl short before reset.

 

[Horsting]

In addition to my Front Defender test here: 

 

"143174984": {
    "id_fighter": 6716841,
    "id_girl": 143174984,
    "is_defeated": false,
    "is_hero_fighter": true,
    "remaining_ego": 298229,
    "damage": 59302,
    "defense": 23238,
    "chance": 195963,
    "remaining_mana": 31,
    "speed": 85479,
    "total_shields_amount": 0
},
"713468897": {
    "id_fighter": 6716841,
    "id_girl": 713468897,
    "is_defeated": false,
    "is_hero_fighter": true,
    "remaining_ego": 294329,
    "damage": 58764,
    "defense": 23576,
    "chance": 195847,
    "remaining_mana": 30,
    "speed": 85379,
    "total_shields_amount": 0
},
"151980856": {
    "id_fighter": 6716841,
    "id_girl": 151980856,
    "is_defeated": false,
    "is_hero_fighter": true,
    "remaining_ego": 298475,
    "damage": 58374,
    "defense": 23311,
    "chance": 195763,
    "remaining_mana": 29,
    "speed": 85307,
    "total_shields_amount": 0
},

So that relic alone works as well.

I also just got a 2nd Front Defender:

But will test this tomorrow, much too late already.

 

[EpicBacon]

@Horsting 3 girls, checking for damage and total damage. 1 girl regular damage and critical, and two girls with critical. Let me know if these numbers check out, I am confident in them, but would like a second opinion just in case.

In addition to the Inpactful 5% relic that gives damage to all girls, I have 1x Epic Vigorous Motivation relic, adding another 6% damage after initial damage calculations.

Sake's math comes up to 85.185 with rounding, but game uses 85.187. She has a lot of damage modifiers tho, so there could be an extra decimal adding up in the end.

 

Edited February 5 by EpicBacon
I love big edits, and I cannot lie

[Horsting]

@EpicBacon

Looks good. The little difference between your and game data is likely that you did not split and rounded up the individual bonuses, but the sum of them? The game does e.g. for Sake (just guessing around with the relics):

AP = 65026 + ceiling(65026*0.1) + ceiling(65026*0.1) + ceiling(65026*0.05) + ceil(65026*0.03) + ceiling(65026*0.03) = ... okay with this combination it is also 1 too low. However, when adding the actual relic bonuses you have like that, you end up at 85.187, right?

And good to know that the <>50% ego AP bonus is what is added after all calculations, so I mixed that up earlier.

[EpicBacon]

6 hours ago, Horsting said:

@EpicBacon

Looks good. The little difference between your and game data is likely that you did not split and rounded up the individual bonuses, but the sum of them? The game does e.g. for Sake (just guessing around with the relics):

AP = 65026 + ceiling(65026*0.1) + ceiling(65026*0.1) + ceiling(65026*0.05) + ceil(65026*0.03) + ceiling(65026*0.03) = ... okay with this combination it is also 1 too low. However, when adding the actual relic bonuses you have like that, you end up at 85.187, right?

And good to know that the <>50% ego AP bonus is what is added after all calculations, so I mixed that up earlier.

I was afraid you were going to say that... I mean I am glad my math is correct, but the problem is that I also have these two relics. If my numbers are correct, and as you said they looked okay, then what does that say about "Critical Thinking" I have not added them in my calculations.

Edit:
I just did what you said; took every and each number from all of the damage modifiers for Sake and rounded each up seperately, it came out to 85.187 as you predicted

Edited February 6 by EpicBacon

[Horsting]

Hmm, so Critical Thinking seems to not function either then. I also have never tested them, AFAIR.

[EpicBacon]

4 hours ago, Horsting said:

Hmm, so Critical Thinking seems to not function either then. I also have never tested them, AFAIR.

The more I look at damage the less I understand it, I mapped out Sake's attacks on the 3rd boss from the last Labyrinth cycle. She got a total of 9 attacks off, and she gets increased damage each time. Way more then the 1% from her bulb skill should give her. I don't know if its a general damage increase for each round, or it has to do with the bulb skill or Vigorous Motivation, I did pick up a second one that run aswell.

Let me quickly go over Sake's damage numbers, to show why the game shows her initial attack the way it does.
Sake's Base attack is 65.026, she gets 40% dmg increase from relics, but if you just multiply it with 1.40 you get 91.036.4, so on @Horstings advice I went over each damage number and rounded them all up.

I don't know how to put this data in to make it look easily readable, this was the only thing I could come up with at the time. As you can see, 91.036.4 from just the base calculation, but each number rounded up, gets you to 91.040.
Now that this is out of the way, lets proceed with the Sake numbers from the 3rd laby boss.

Round 1; Sake's damage is 91.940. We have to use the number I've added in bold, because how the game displays the data. The number shown is the damage with the bulb skill added in, but it will only take effect on the next turn, and is not used for round1 damage. I have 2 vigorous Motivations in place, a total of 12%

ROUND 1:
Damage*Vigorous Motivation = Actual Damage      (91.040*1.12)=101.964.8. Rounded up to 101.965.
Actual Damage - Enemy defence = DamageTemp  (101.965-41026= 60.939. Rounded Up to 60.940
DamageTemp * 2 = Total Damage                           (60.940*2= 121.880. This Damage number is correct for round1.

ROUND2:
Damage*Vigorous Motivation = Actual Damage      (91.950.4*1.12)=102.984.448 Rounded up to 102.985.
Actual Damage - Enemy defence = DamageTemp  (102.985-39951= 63034. Rounded Up to 63035
DamageTemp * 2 = Total Damage                           (63035*2= 126.070. This Damage number is NOT correct R2.

Damage is shown as 146.102, while my math shows 126.070 It is 20.032 short. or 15.8%.
I will spare you any more math, instead i looked at all the damage numbers the game displays, and checked how much they increased each round. For any round with critical damage I simply divided the critical in two.

This shows a steady increase each round, around 20.000 damage, give or take, dependent on the enemy defence. I have no idea why. Is it a general round damage increase, is this Vigorous Motivation doing something weird, or a combination between bulb skill and Motivation? Even with opponent with the same defence, battle 6-7 and 8-9  shows a damage increase.

And there is no reason why the 9th attack, a critical should do 634.516 damage, especially since her earlier critical was 376.180, sure the girl has 7.000 ish less defence, but 7000 defence does not explain 250.000 more damage.

For Today's run, I will try to run single unbulbed girls with no damage modifers in some blue/green battles, to get as many attacks off as possible, and map out if they get increased damage over the cource of the labyrinth battle.
Something strange is going on with damage.

 

Edited February 6 by EpicBacon
Gramma, formatting, the usual

[Zamioc Yuki]

Oyoo....

@EpicBacon If you could summerise every relic not working, I could try to fill a report and show it to KK so they can check it and hopefully correct it

[EpicBacon]

4 minutes ago, Zamioc Yuki said:

Oyoo....

@EpicBacon If you could summerise every relic not working, I could try to fill a report and show it to KK so they can check it and hopefully correct it

That is the problem tho, I don't know what is wrong. I don't know if its an issue with the bulb skill, or the normal damage relics, or Vigorous Motivation relic, or simply something in my math that i am not calculating correctly.
I am trying to do some more testing, but I can only test what I am offered in the labyrinth.

I just did a testrun, with a level 700 1star common girl, no bulbs, no girl equipment, no relics. All the damage from my single girl matched my calculations each round, there was no increase in damage. So what I can say is that; on the first fight in the laby, there is no global round damage increase.

I have made a summary of the known relics that we know are bugged or have issues in the "questions about the labyrinth" This has been forwarded and linked by several people allready, and should be known by the team. I will have to do more testing with the "Critical Thinking" one before I choose to add that one to the list, as I want to make sure it has any effect or not.

 

[EpicBacon]

Some more Damage testing with Sake, hard fight this time, no damage relics.
The reason I am using Sake is that she is my quickest girl, she'll have the chance of doing more attacks then others.

Doing this test early on without any damage relics showed me that the bulb skill that gives increased damage is shown in the damage numbers in the responce, but they are actually not added, the damage formula is using the base damage. Below you can see that all the damage numbers in the rounds are calculated with Sake's base attack.

Round 1:
Sake  atk 65.026
Enemy def 22.155
(65.026-22.155)*2= 85.742

Round 2:
Sake  atk 65.026
Enemy def 22.155
(65.026-22.155)*2= 85.742

Round 3:
Sake  atk 65.026
Enemy def 26.684
(65.026-26.684)*2= 76.684

Round 4:
Sake  atk 65.026
Enemy def 27.017
(65.026-27.017)*2= 76.018

Round 5:
Sake  atk 65.026
Enemy def 23.001
(65.026-23.001)*2= 84.050
Critx2: 84.050*2=  168.100 

Update: 
Got a +7.5% Dominatrix damage relic, made sure to have 1 domi girl in my party for the 1st boss, Hazel (domi girl) got 4 attacks in, including 2 criticals, damage was correct. Also made sure to check Sake again, she got 5 normal attacks in, all damage correct.

Update II:
Obtained an "Impactful" 5% all girl damage relic, checked Hazel's damage in the next hard battle. She had a combined 12.5% bonus attack with both relics, all damage numbers were correct. Sake was checked too, her 5% damage calculated correctly.

Update III:
"Critical Thinking" relic obtained, the relic is question is a girl specific relic, increasing Golden Rabbi's critical hit damage by 80%, or well.. its supposed to do that...
The good news is that "Critical thinking" does indeed work, the bad news is that you are not getting the percentage you were adverticed.



Rabbi Actual Damage:
56.559+(56.599*0.05)+(56.599*0.05)=62.259.   
Subtract enemy defence
(62.259-22150)*2= 80.218
Add the 80% critical modifier (this is what the number should have been)
80.218*2.8= 224.610

If we simply double the damage, as with any normal critical attack we get:
80.218*2= 160.436. This is still not correct, as the game  has
the total damage is listed as 160.564.
It's 128 more then the we got.

Let's take the number we got, and do some math:
160.436*1.0008=160.564
Would you look at that...

You are not getting 80%, you are getting 0.16%

Update IV:
I've added in Rabbi's full battle info here, incase someone wants to double check the numbers for themselves.


Update V:
Got another critical with Rabbi against the 2nd floor boss, again 128 extra critical damage.

Update VI:
2nd to last fight on floor3, I managed to grab a "critical thinking" Mythic relic, increasing critical damage to all girls by 50%. Let's see how that worked out.



Amaya, Zazie and Beatrix showed no increased damage at all. It's like the relic wasnt there.
Golden Rabbi on the other hand, who up to now have produced 128 damage crits decided that now is the time to unleash her full potential.

Golden Rabbi hit the target for slightly more then 80% increased critical damage. There is a difference of 149 points that I have no idea where it's from, and to be frank, at this point, I don't really care. I am starting to get really tired of inconsistant relics that sometimes work, and sometimes don't.

What I can say is that, "Critical Thinking" Global, does not seem to work at all. While the "critical thinking" target one, works at a fraction of the amount its supposed to do, unless you pair it with a global one, then it seems to be able to function at like 100.01% ratio or something.

I don't know what is going on anymore...

Update VII:
Checked criticals against final boss too, Swapped out to my spank team, did not bring Golden Rabbi with her critical relic. I scored 5 criticals total, all of them did normal 2x damage, no increase.

Edited February 7 by EpicBacon
...

[Horsting]

2 hours ago, EpicBacon said:

the bulb skill that gives increased damage is shown in the damage numbers in the responce, but they are actually not added, the damage formula is using the base damage.

Oh my goodness, not even this is working, on a closer view. I only saw the AP in the attacker stats raising, so thought it is working, but would have never guessed that the "total damage" does not take these attacker stats as calculation basis, obviously. This whole thing is so absolutely broken. If I was the one to fix this, I would rewrite the whole backend for the Labyrinth new from ground up, seriously. I am quite sure they are not able to fix it completely, given the nasty type of bugs, indicating spaghetti code all over that no one will be able to overview well. When things are fixed one end, bugs will appear at the other end.

Edited February 7 by Horsting

[EpicBacon]

15 hours ago, Horsting said:

Oh my goodness, not even this is working, on a closer view. I only saw the AP in the attacker stats raising, so thought it is working, but would have never guessed that the "total damage" does not take these attacker stats as calculation basis, obviously. 

Yeah, I didn't even consider this as a possibility, after all the numbers are in there. It was only when doing the actual calculations myself to check if there are a damage buff per round thing, that I found this. And this also means that my numbers with the increased damage are higher then I initially thought, since I was using the increased damage numbers. I am pretty sure that the increased damage is down to the "Vigorous Motivation" relic. I also had two of them, so they might have impacted each other in some way.

Now I just need one of the "critical thinking" relics to drop, so I can check on the critical damage. I might even skip on "Vigorous Motivation" if one drops before "critical thinking" just to get the critical one checked out, I'll update my post with updates as I go.

For those who did not check my previous post, It did turn abit long in the end.
"Critical thinking" Global, I could not find it working, Did not give me any increased critical damage.
"Critical thinking" (target girl) gave me way less damage then it was supposed to; Where I was supposed to get +64.174, it gave me 128. Not 128k, just 128.

The strange thing is that the "Critical thinking" (target girl) actually seemed to fix itself when I paired it with a global critical relic. However the global one itself showed no effect of working at all.
Check my above post for more information and numbers.

Edited February 7 by EpicBacon

[EpicBacon]

The one good thing about starting to figure out basic damage numbers and how they work, is that I think I'm actually going to be able to check if "Curse" actually do anything. As long I stick to normal damage relics, spotting if girls gets increased damage should not be hard at all, and If i get one early next run, I'll grab one for sure.

Also I seems to have done a mistake calculating my percentages earlier. I said my critical thinking relic gave 0.08% effect, but it seems its 0.16% instead.

With an 80% critical damage multiplier increase the formula should be:

Damage*280% crit.= 80.218*2.8=224.610
This makes sense to me.

The game seems to have done this instead:
80.218*2.0016=160.564
This number is consistant with the number shown in the Ajax.

Can someone who understand percentage calculation better then me,
explain how you would turn a 80% increase into a 0.16% increase instead?
If it was 0.08% I would understand, because you simply just move the decimal place. But 0.16%?

Not only do you have to move the decimal point, you somehow multiplied the number with itself? Ah... is that it? It was supposed to double the Base damage, not itself? So not only are the wrong number being multiplied, the decimal point is also wrong? 

If anyone would be able to confirm, or explain what is really happening, please do so

Edited February 7 by EpicBacon

[Horsting]

Where is the 80,218 coming from? The 63,765.201... damage is due to GS4? And 62,259 is the original AP? Note that GS4 applies to the very first round as well, so it needs to be subtracted from the first AP shown for the girl.