Patch Notes 12/12/18 Discussion

[[CNO] BananaJoy]

5 minutes ago, Kinkoid said:

Regarding the Droprate, as stated we will not display it. We are ok to speak about the relative drop rates within the game. We already stated officially, for example, that, relatively, when recruiting a girl from the Epic Pachinko, you have twice more chance to obtain an Permanent Girl than a Villain Girl and three time more chances to obtain an Event Girl than a Villain Girl. The game desire to appeal to the feeling of chance and surprise related to obtaining a girl. This is a choice in our design regarding the pachinko and the current success of our game is designed around it.

 

but this only counts for ppl who have still some girls left in the ep. so for ppl who cleared the ep this is more a punishment than an improvement. cause 10xep gave us a guarantied event girl and now we need pay more for the same service. thats why i asked to let the event girls in the ep and the new event pachinco should be an additional option for the others.

[imoenbg1]

Why dont you give us the chance to choose if we want a guaranteed girl (at 7=8k) or gamble to RNG?

Everyone can make that choice for himself. Because with RNG there is the bad taste of wasting a lot of resources and not getting anything in return.

The current success of this game is exactly because you are providing players with that choice in epic pachinco as 10 rolls guaranteed get you a girl. If you are feeling lucky you can gamble on single rolls. In that way you cater to all. Limiting the guaranteed option is outright stupid.

Haven't you learned anything from your legendary days fiascos with people wasting insane amounts of cobans and jkust outright quitting?

[johntrine]

they could set up a poll to see what people want... but fuck that. that's too much work.

[Fucker]

I think you should leave the pachinko as it is, adding another one won't help anybody...

Edited December 12, 2018 by Fucker

[[CNO] Nishebro]

44 minutes ago, Kinkoid said:

It is closer to something like between 8 to 10 times higher than the current Single Spin of the Epic Pachinko.

8.00001 or 9 or maybe 9.99999 ?

Even you don't know chances or what? Full random?

[saberbholt]

1 hour ago, Kinkoid said:

As stated, the price of guaranteeing an event girl should be around 7000 to 8000 kobans.

Also, we desire to separate both to give us more freedom with the release of Epic Pachinko Girls. If we desire to release them 10 of them at the same time, this wouldn't impact the chance of anyone to get an event girls. 

 

The best thing you can do is not implement the new Pachinko. If you implement this, have a problem because shutdown the girls and posibilities of players of give events girls in P.E. and only gain more angry players (With reason).

You were asked something very simple: during the events, the girls who deliver P.E. they were first those of events, after these the residents of Pachinko and  one more thing, the only girls who should not be in P.E.  are the regular villains.

If you're not going to do that with P.E., then do not do anything.

And do not tell me about how the cost should be higher for being girls ... they are a handful of pixels, so it is difficult for you to convince me that you "quantify" a CONCEPT on its relative cost

Edited December 12, 2018 by saberbholt

[saberbholt]

A bug in Opera: 

Now when you are in your harem of girls and press the menu button (for example to open the forum in another tab of the browser) the mouse cursor becomes a cross when returning to the harem leaving that section "off", when before clicking in a harem girl the menu was closed automatically and you continued. It is a problem because of the change of cursor and because it forces you to close by pressing the menu button again or the rest of the interface does not work.

That ocurs time to time, the usual is only the change of the cursor and when click any other side automatly close menu and work, but not always, in this other rare case is block until you click in the menu button or one of the options in the menu.

Edited December 12, 2018 by saberbholt

[Habi]

3 hours ago, BananaJoy said:

think will pulish them in the chichat topic. also we laready know % for girls its always better to prove it

i think it will be better to create an own thread for this. maybe in the feedback section next to the other thread collecting troll girl drop data. (i think someone else suggested the same thing)

[Valgo]

16 hours ago, imoenbg1 said:

That is basically one of the worst ideas ever...

 

People getting punished just because their favourite event girl for example happens to be a useless 3 star legandary...

 

Worst idea? So you basically saying higher rarity should have equal drop chances with low rarity? In that case, you might as well ask them to scrap off rarity. Their rarity should't be rare or legendary if they drop easily. They should have reasonable low drop rate, but not insanely low.

[Ben9]

If chance of getting a girl from Event pachinko will be 8-10x more likely than the epic pachinko as stated, the epic pachinko is much lower than the 10% chance that players seem to believe it is. 

To value an Event girl at 7-8000 kobans and then set the pachinko price at 1800/spin one would think that its at most a 25% chance of a girl.   This means chance from epic pachinko is actually about 3%?   And as Event girl chance is 3x higher than villain, which is half as much chance as permanent pachinko girl, this seems to imply that overall the Epic pachinko is currently 6% chance of a girl, broken down as: 3% Event, 2% Pachinko, 1% Villain.

[saberbholt]

27 minutes ago, Ben9 said:

If chance of getting a girl from Event pachinko will be 8-10x more likely than the epic pachinko as stated, the epic pachinko is much lower than the 10% chance that players seem to believe it is. 

To value an Event girl at 7-8000 kobans and then set the pachinko price at 1800/spin one would think that its at most a 25% chance of a girl.   This means chance from epic pachinko is actually about 3%?   And as Event girl chance is 3x higher than villain, which is half as much chance as permanent pachinko girl, this seems to imply that overall the Epic pachinko is currently 6% chance of a girl, broken down as: 3% Event, 2% Pachinko, 1% Villain.

I Always thing the change was 1 from 15 rolls in Pachinko, who is very similar to your numbers ( 5%) 

[Daniele]

7 hours ago, Kinkoid said:

It is closer to something like between 8 to 10 times higher than the current Single Spin of the Epic Pachinko

Between 8 to 10 times higher? I guess you mean the chance of getting an event girl, right?

I meant the chance of getting any girl with a single spin. I don't really care which girl drops, what i hate is wasting kobans for nothing.

Well, let's wait and see if this new pachinko sucks enough to leave the game

[jelom]

Kinkoid is speaking of equivalent cost of 7000-8000 kobans for a guaranteed girl. Here guaranteed is 95%-99% because we are playing with probabilities.

With a binomial distribution ,  4-5 tries (1800 x 4=7200 kobans), to get a 95% probability of at least one drop you need the drop rate to be 50%

You can check numbers for binomial graph calculator here:

https://homepage.divms.uiowa.edu/~mbognar/applets/bin.html

Edit: but perhaps he was only referring at the price (7000-8000 Kobans) he would have marked for the option of spin for a guaranteed girl (as in the 10XEP), and I am speculating ...

Edited December 12, 2018 by jelom

[Blain]

I tried putting that post into Google translator, but there's no setting for Math -> English

[Masters]

Personally, I think the fairest option is to leave Event Girls in Epic Pachinko AND offer them in the Event Pachinko.

This way a player has to CHOICE to spend 5400 for EPx10 and get a guaranteed girl which MIGHT be an Event girl, but come away with a girl never the less —OR— opt to spend 1800 for a chance at ONLY an Event girl, but no guarantee per spin; it's a smaller pool but when you get a girl she WILL BE an Event one.

The "value" you assign the girl is not a factor since there was ALWAYS a chance to get an Event Girl from the EPx10 since Event girls were always offered in the EP as well. 

To recap:
5400 guarantees a girl but not her level, which might be an Event girl during Events
1800 will ONLY return an Event girl, but not guaranteed per spin.
-----------

I also reiterate my suggestion that after two years from a girl's debut, she is placed in the Epic Pachinko. Frankly, I think this should include the Patreon Girls, but after three years; having had the girl as exclusive for 3 years is bonus enough for anyone.

[_shal_]

7 hours ago, jelom said:

Edit: but perhaps he was only referring at the price (7000-8000 Kobans) he would have marked for the option of spin for a guaranteed girl (as in the 10XEP), and I am speculating ...

I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that if they're talking about 7-8000 kobans as the "fair" price for a guaranteed drop, then the non-guaranteed drop rate will be set such that the expected cost is exactly in the same range. Because, let's make no mistake about it, from the Kinkoid point of view it doesn't matter at all if a girl actually drops for any individual player, it only matters if the average income per realized drop fulfills their expectations. And there's just no way that expectation will be lower than the quoted number, because otherwise they wouldn't be considering that to be the fair price in the first place. (I'm making the possibly unfounded assumption here that Kinkoid is being run by rational people.)

Anyway, I'm looking forward to the first player reporting some insane number like 20,000 kobans spent without a girl drop. Because it will happen. But hey, who cares about the unfortunate outliers who end up having to pay for all the players that get lucky drops for less than 7-8000 kobans, right? Speaking of which...

15 hours ago, Kinkoid said:

We understand that a guaranteed girl would sound appealing for you, yet the price we calculated (taking into account of the other prices in the game, the quantity of kobans we are rewarding you, the average chances and a lot of different datum) is between 7000 and 8000 kobans to guaranteed a girl from the Event Girls. We do not desire to impliment this price as it would be a bad experience for most users.

(Emphasis mine.) Obviously you're implementing exactly that price, just with an obfuscated price tag attached to it. It remains to be seen how many players are stupid enough to fall for the ruse. The skinny here is: Event pachinko girls are going to be around 33-50% more expensive in the future. Why the Kinkoids can't simply be upfront and honest about that fact will have to remain a mystery, I suppose.

Not that it matters to me, as I'm going to avoid the new Event Pachinko like the plague. There are too many other girls to get in the game for free or for cheap to bother paying for lottery tickets priced at 1800 kobans.

Edited December 13, 2018 by _shal_

[MSM007]

Wow, @_shal_ beat me to it, as I was basically about to post the same thing. While 8,000 Kobans is a lot, Blowing that much or even two or three times that much and possibly not even getting a single solitary girl for it... That is the kind of protection I don't need.

Bottom line I can only hope the community decides to outright ignore the Event Pachinko and hold up on buying Kobans until this idea gets reversed. Sadly there will still likely be enough whales who have the disposable income to drop 80,000 Kobans and not blink and @Kinkoid will think it was a great idea based solely on the $ generated and not even once consider to take into account how many players actually bought more kobans/monthly cards and made use of the Event Pachinko vs how many stopped buying kobans/monthly cards.

Sorry if I sound so fatalistic, but I am having a bit too many flashbacks to Star Wars Uprising, a game using one of the most profitable IPs ever (This was before the new Trilogy so the issues with it did not affect the game as it was shuttered before The Force Awakens), and they made their entire income plan: "Slot machine gambling that players have no choice but to use for progress." It works for awhile, until the whales get bored, fed up, or can't afford to invest anymore. By the time the thought of appealing to the player base that wasn't dropping stupid amounts of cash on the game crossed their minds, there wasn't enough players left to keep it profitable enough to keep the server on.

Now I know there are differences between the two games and it likely costs less to keep this game going then SWU, as well as the Monthly Card (SWU could of really used a similar feature.) but the bottom line I am attempting to get to is this: You can't cater to JUST the minority of the players who can afford to outspend the majority, because once they bail you'll be left with a majority not willing to trust you enough to support the game with their money.

[[CNO] BananaJoy]

17 hours ago, Kinkoid said:

As stated, the price of guaranteeing an event girl should be around 7000 to 8000 kobans.

Also, we desire to separate both to give us more freedom with the release of Epic Pachinko Girls. If we desire to release them 10 of them at the same time, this wouldn't impact the chance of anyone to get an event girls. 

as i said u punished the loyal players again who cleared the ep or have almost most of them. u want seperate ep and event pachinko? for what reason? whats wrong with the current ep. it works for the last years well why it shouldnt anymore. sometimes have the feeling u only want to piss us off, not really caring about our complains.

[Damoncord]

2 hours ago, _shal_ said:

I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that if they're talking about 7-8000 kobans as the "fair" price for a guaranteed drop, then the non-guaranteed drop rate will be set such that the expected cost is exactly in the same range. Because, let's make no mistake about it, from the Kinkoid point of view it doesn't matter at all if a girl actually drops for any individual player, it only matters if the average income per realized drop fulfills their expectations. And there's just no way that expectation will be lower than the quoted number, because otherwise they wouldn't be considering that to be the fair price in the first place. (I'm making the possibly unfounded assumption here that Kinkoid is being run by rational people.)

Anyway, I'm looking forward to the first player reporting some insane number like 20,000 kobans spent without a girl drop. Because it will happen. But hey, who cares about the unfortunate outliers who end up having to pay for all the players that get lucky drops for less than 7-8000 kobans, right? Speaking of which...

 

4

It already has, I was on a 39 spin losing streak when I quit playing single spin EP.  I lost 21060 Kobans in single spin EP without getting a girl.

[_shal_]

1 minute ago, Damoncord said:

It already has, I was on a 39 spin losing streak when I quit playing single spin EP.  I lost 21060 Kobans in single spin EP without getting a girl.

Sure, but your unfortunate case appears to be an extreme outlier for that, while 20,000+ on the new event pachinko may well happen very regularly. With an assumed flat drop rate of 25%, it would happen to around every 24th player. Even 30,000+ would happen to every 100th player.

I really do hope there's some unannounced part to the mechanics of this thing, because the prospective numbers are rather scary.

[Sovereign RHB]

20 minutes ago, _shal_ said:

Sure, but your unfortunate case appears to be an extreme outlier for that, while 20,000+ on the new event pachinko may well happen very regularly. With an assumed flat drop rate of 25%, it would happen to around every 24th player. Even 30,000+ would happen to every 100th player.

I really do hope there's some unannounced part to the mechanics of this thing, because the prospective numbers are rather scary.

Girls        46 (9.2%) copied from @BananaJoy who has done 500 single ep (detailed results here: https://forum.hentaiheroes.com/index.php?/topic/5834-high-rollers-share-your-single-spin-epic-pachinko-results/&page=3

- and others use the 10 % freely -

Assuming this is representative for ep and combined with Kinkoids statement that the droprate for event pachinko is 8 to 10 times that of ep I would say the chance of an event girl is all but guaranteed.

I am just spitballing here. We will learn more in a day or two.

edit: I was highly surprised that Kinkoid used numbers. I've never seen that before. Maybe something got adjusted. lol.

Edited December 13, 2018 by dirty harry

[Lemus]

1 hour ago, BananaJoy said:

for what reason?

Because the developers dream that we would have the same as in the market of mobile games in Asia, where people do not play, but who will spend the most money are competing.

- I spent 1000 and did not get anything, but I am so rich and successful that this is nonsense for me.

- You are a loser because I spent 5000 and did not receive anything and and I'm not upset, which means I am more successful than you.

- Both of you are useless, because I spent 10,000 without any result, now I'm just a god of this game. (Someone lend some rice, otherwise I'm very hungry now)

This, of course, is sarcasm, but by and large this is exactly what happens there. And looking at this, developers from other countries cry with bloody tears of envy and dream of the same players.

Edited December 13, 2018 by Lemus

[Zorba the Geek]

20 hours ago, BananaJoy said:

but this only counts for ppl who have still some girls left in the ep. so for ppl who cleared the ep this is more a punishment than an improvement. cause 10xep gave us a guarantied event girl and now we need pay more for the same service. thats why i asked to let the event girls in the ep and the new event pachinco should be an additional option for the others.

Hahaha.  You're paying the price of cleaning out the EP of permanents.  We will no longer have to worry about you displaying all your current successes to rub it in to us.  For the rest of us poor suckers, Kinkoid's explanation offers some light and perhaps a sense of fairness.  I'll withhold my judgement until I see how it actually works.

[Pepe Lolo]

Well, I´havent played a single x10 spin since I started to play 11 months ago, as my golden rule is not playing epic pachinko until I have all the boss girls...

Problem here is It was stated 5.400 for x10 epic pachinko, which means that in people´s mind this is THE REAL PRICE, it doesn´t matter the new price, we´ll have the felling that over 5400 is expensive, under 5400 is cheap. 

Of course, this is KINKOID´s game, so do whith it whatever you consider is better for you/for the game/for both. But keep in mind that people have the choice of continue playing or leaving, and even most suscessfull games can go down by mistaken policies. By any means take this as a threat but as logic insight, I think I can understand your point, but I´d try a diferent approach to rebalance prices. IMPO decreasing the REAL value of kobans will decrease the value of the game in same proportion: I wouldn´t recomend that.

[wertyu]

On the test server there is a  sci fi event revival going on, its running for 5 days , also has the new epic/event pachinko  on there  , just tried it and got a girl on the first try plus 3 legendary  items and the  second try got 4 legendary  items..

 

I was surprised to see a event on the test server today.

 

 

Edited December 13, 2018 by wertyu