Patch Notes 03/04/19 (club features) discussion thread

[jaybee]

I'm also without knowledge of the financial returns but I somehow doubt that the regular koban purchases are a big thing. Anyone thinking "oh I want that girl and need 5,400 kobans" will be faced with the decision: "wtf? I have to cash out 50 euro for that? it's absurd!"

Very few people are probably ready to make that investment ("20 euro for half a girl???") and that can be seen by koban promotions that are always 80% off or something like that to make any kind of sense to people.

The game lives on Patreon, card buyers and a few crazy people paying the big bucks very occasionally but card buyers must be the steadiest stream of income. Yes, it is safest to get more money from them, but the return must be good enough not to aggravate them.

It just seems very likely that the current friendly EUR 3 crowd will turn into a more demanding and hostile EUR 10 crowd, easily irritated by the dozens of bugs in the game. And more ready to consider "i will stop paying" as a punishment - because the current "you won't get those 3 bucks from me anymore" is just too toothless to make sense.

[Huangover]

And I bet the game will continue on as it has for the past few years. Some, including I, will complain frm time to time,  but everyone will still play because they like it.  Not to mention, there is no end goal here, the game game never ends, everyone plays at the pace they chose to. You can't win this game so it makes no difference how much other people chose to spend. 

Players will still play for free, others will still buy the EUR3 card, others the EUR10 card, patreons will still exist and there will still be crazy people paying big bucks for one off buys. 

Nothing has changed. 

[Lhans]

55 minutes ago, yoyowhan said:

Okay,I have 18 days left for old monthly card.Will it reduce to 6 days if I upgrade it?

Gotta say 5400 kobens in total for a month is probably worth for a golden card.

I think you have to buy a month's worth of the gold card, then it would allow you to upgrade your remaining silver card time of 18 days to gold card 6 days.

Edited April 2, 2019 by Lhans

[Mika Kinkoid]

55 minutes ago, yoyowhan said:

Okay,I have 18 days left for old monthly card.Will it reduce to 6 days if I upgrade it?

Hello!

Approximately, as stated "The resources remaining from the old card(s) will be automatically recalculated according to the new card ratio (1 day of the Gold is worth 3.34 days of Silver Monthly Card)".

[Daniele]

22 hours ago, ShadowHaamu said:

There is huge list of things in ¥men gain section. But I fail to see the one category mentioned, the one that actually matters..... income from your girls. That would've been the only thing that this max 10% increase would have made the difference. 

That's weird, in my test server account the girls' income is higher now...

[windia]

7 minutes ago, Daniele said:

That's weird, in my test server account the girls' income is higher now...

[...]

That is not weird to me - beause unlike the patch notes the club feature description says "whatever the source"

[Observer_X]

And the fissure between free and paying players keeps on widening...

The istant I saw the patch notes I knew that my fears had again come true, meaning that the devs again developed a feature to constrain players to become paying players or give up more of their hard-earned free kobans (for anyone that should not remember, in my personal opinion monthly card owners are not true free players, and should not define themselves as such. No offense, but I find expressions like "apart the monthly card I am a free player" really idiot: you are a free player or you are not, and even as a small sum as it is, if you pay for a monthly card you are not. Point and back to the topic).

Even for normal free players it is a waste of ymens. I did something I usually don't do, that is using some math to try to get a view of the costs. As I am not used to this, I ask on advance for forgiveness if anyone who reads this finds any errors or disagrees with my calculations.

As a free player, I will consider the costs only for the first 10 level of an upgrade. If I understood correctly, the total cost in ymens should be:

2.500.000 x (1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9+10) = 137.500.000

Now, suppose for equity reasons (more on this later) to leave out the Member Cap upgrade, and consider only the other seven possible categories, with a full club of 20 people. The total ymen cost per person should be as follows:

137.500.000 x 7 : 20 = 48.125.000

Now, I am at level 328 and, despite what my profile says, I have 124 girls (not 130). When my harem money is fully collectable, i can gather a little less than 310.000 ymens, with an average income per hour of a little less than 190.000 ymens. All this, obviously, when I am online playing, and excluding villain money (that actually is limited, at least out of events, because I am mugging Karole for her last two girls). With these numbers and the time I can pass in-play, I estimated that to gather over 48 million ymens i will need approximately two full months of intense play. ALL THIS to have a (in my opinion) miserable 5% bonus on game numbers, and ONLY if all the other people in the club are quick as me (and I should not define myself quick).

Let's try to include in this the expansion of the club. That obviously means more people to contribute, but it should be noted that the contribution comes in fixed quotes, and that means not only a percentage, small as it is, of resources lost, but also some possible negative scenarios deriving from the fact that it will probably be impossible to subdivide in equal quotes the player contribution for each upgrade: although this may not be a problem for some players, I am prone to think that there is quite a bunch of people that will dislike this situation.

Consider also I've talked only about the first 10 levels of upgrades, those paid by ymens. Followind more or less the same procedure, one can calculate that for the upgrades from level 11 to level 20, every member of a 20 people club should spend 16800 kobans in total (again excluding club expansion). Again, this only for another 5% bonus on game numbers. Anyone of you, as always, is free to think as he wishes, but even taking apart the prohibitive (in my opinion) koban cost regarding free players, in my book the game is not worth the candle.

I'll conclude as I started: one more time, the paying players will continue to get even more powerful, and the free players will keep on struggling to get a decent progress.

[_shal_]

1 hour ago, Observer_X said:

ALL THIS to have a (in my opinion) miserable 5% bonus on game numbers (...)

I'll conclude as I started: one more time, the paying players will continue to get even more powerful, and the free players will keep on struggling to get a decent progress.

If the bonuses are so miserable, why are you concerned about how they might give paying players a leg up? Save your hypothetical 48 million ymen and just ignore club features.

[snowman22]

@Observer_X,  I sorta agree and sorta disagree.

If I get +5% on my class and +5% on your class and we compete I effectively get +10%. I know it is not a straight add but things are a little worse than you thought.

Wrt the 1st 10 lvl cash paid bonuses.

I think the patch notes are saying that the 1st 10 levels of a boost will cost 2.5M each so 125K/lvl/member for +0.5%. Peanuts. I could be interpreting the note wrong. (Wouldn't be the first time). I spend about 1M on stat upgrades etc each lvl for a far smaller improvement (? 0.2% ?). Even if each lvl costs 2.5M MORE level 10 is only 25M or 1.25M each across 20 members. Better than buying stats.

I agree with your koban comments. 4,800 kobans for the 20th level? Even across 20 members thats 240 kobans. That seems steep.

[jaybee]

You forget that it is basically a collection game. For ordinary players the only purpose of the card is to get one additional girl per month (by collecting enough kobans for a spin in epic pachinko).
The club system allows for a couple of hundred players to beat one another better in some Dictator things but essentially that activity is meaningless, just as the money gain. Forgetting that the clubs or leagues exist will not influence the gameplay of ordinary players - their gain will be income from the additional girls that they can spin from pachinko.

That's why I believe the card would be much more attractive as a simple USD/EUR 10 = 180 kobans a day = 5,400 kobans a month = 1 girl a month feature.

The current 4,500 kobans a month is not bad, it's just a question of how satisfied the players are with the price-return ratio. The current nearly 100% satisfaction rate with the USD/EUR 3 return will decrease among EUR/USD 10 payers. Yeah, maybe everybody will pay anyway and there's absolutely no difference. Or maybe the higher monthly payment will give a weapon to regular playing customers to punish the game by cancelling their subscription due to unlucky RNG streaks, leading to more of them giving up on the game.

[Lhans]

4 minutes ago, snowman22 said:

I think the patch notes are saying that the 1st 10 levels of a boost will cost 2.5M each so 125K/lvl/member for +0.5%. Peanuts. I could be interpreting the note wrong. (Wouldn't be the first time). I spend about 1M on stat upgrades etc each lvl for a far smaller improvement (? 0.2% ?). Even if each lvl costs 2.5M MORE level 10 is only 25M or 1.25M each across 20 members. Better than buying stats.

It's an additional 2.5M more per level. 2.5, 5, 7.5, etc.

Edited April 2, 2019 by Lhans

[Observer_X]

1 hour ago, _shal_ said:

If the bonuses are so miserable, why are you concerned about how they might give paying players a leg up? Save your hypothetical 48 million ymen and just ignore club features.

Probably I worded it badly. In truth, my complaining is about he fact that:

1) to use this expression, one has to pay 10 (or even more) to obtain 1,  and probably that 1 is almost useless
2) as usual half of that 1 is almost exclusively for the usual paying players, making it even more useless fro free players, and
3) probably there will be people complaining because the system will hardly allow all players involved to contribute on an equal basis, plus constraining them to lose a percentage of their donations in the progress.

[Mr.Goodfellow]

Gold Monthly Card seems way too expensive for what you get.  you get 2.5x the kobans, 10x battles (useful), 15x league spins (only semi-useful).  With regular card being $3 USD.  the Gold card should be 2.5x times that = $7.5 USD.  I'd love the extra kobans and 10x battles spin convenience, but NOT at $10 USD.  That's absurd. 

[jaybee]

10 minutes ago, Mr.Goodfellow said:

Gold Monthly Card seems way too expensive for what you get.  you get 2.5x the kobans, 10x battles (useful), 15x league spins (only semi-useful).  With regular card being $3 USD.  the Gold card should be 2.5x times that = $7.5 USD.  I'd love the extra kobans and 10x battles spin convenience, but NOT at $10 USD.  That's absurd. 

What if kobans are increased to 3x (180 a day, 5,000 month)? Would you call it normal price then? 1 extra buck for 10x battles and league spins.

[Lhans]

7 minutes ago, jaybee said:

What if kobans are increased to 3x (180 a day, 5,000 month)? Would you call it normal price then? 1 extra buck for 10x battles and league spins.

Eh still not worth it. The higher the price the more benefits you should be getting. The way a bunch of something may cost more but actually are better in terms of cost per unit than a smaller package. While some people will still get the gold card, the devs are missing out on a bigger market by not thinking of more price conscious players.

[Lhans]

On 4/1/2019 at 11:16 AM, Cantrix said:

Moreover the 15x fights in leagues is unusable, because if you wait to get 15pts you will be capped and lose time for new points. 

Well I suppose it'll be of use for those people in the upper league, they'll get their max points in no time. So less than one minute when the league starts?

[Mr.Goodfellow]

1 hour ago, jaybee said:

What if kobans are increased to 3x (180 a day, 5,000 month)? Would you call it normal price then? 1 extra buck for 10x battles and league spins.

Still, not really worth it.  I can already buy X amount of kobans per month for X amount of money whenever I need it.  The Monthly card is there for convenience of collecting Harem money and $3 USD / mo for the time investment is worth it.  The few kobans you get with it are a bonus, in my opinion.  But $10 USD / month and really the only added benefit that is useful to me is the 10x battle spins - and an occasional 15x spin when I wake up in the morning.  Sure, even more kobans are great too... but again, I can buy those separately when needed.  I don't mind shelling out a few more $ for convenience... but $10 USD is a price point that is too much for what is offered.

[jaybee]

OK so $10 per month (even for 5,400 kobans) is too much and not worth it? But if you need 5,400 kobans suddenly in the game, it's more convenient to buy it for $40?

What do you think of the price of kobans in those packages? Is $20 for 2,700 kobans normal, cheap, too expensive?

[Lhans]

13 minutes ago, jaybee said:

OK so $10 per month (even for 5,400 kobans) is too much and not worth it? But if you need 5,400 kobans suddenly in the game, it's more convenient to buy it for $40?

What do you think of the price of kobans in those packages? Is $20 for 2,700 kobans normal, cheap, too expensive?

If you mean the normal koban packages available at any time, those are horrible deals to me. Never bought em. I do buy those limited one time offer koban deals for 5 however.

[GeorgeMTO]

3 minutes ago, Lhans said:

If you mean the normal koban packages available at any time, those are horrible deals to me. Never bought em. I do buy those limited one time offer koban deals for 5 however.

He's responding to the person above him who seems to be implying that they don't value the cheap kobans of the card and just buy kobans as they need them. Not as a general question.

[Mr.Goodfellow]

2 hours ago, jaybee said:

OK so $10 per month (even for 5,400 kobans) is too much and not worth it? But if you need 5,400 kobans suddenly in the game, it's more convenient to buy it for $40?

What do you think of the price of kobans in those packages? Is $20 for 2,700 kobans normal, cheap, too expensive?

First of all, the Gold Card is 4500 kobans for $10.  Not 5400.  Again, it's 2.5x what you get for $3 on the monthly card.  For $10/month, they should offer 6000 kobans and the 10x battle and 15x league spins.  That is a fair upgrade and comparable to the current standard/silver card.  But again, the pricing is off for what is currently being offered.  If people want to spend $10 / month on this deal - more power to them.  I don't really have a use for the one-off purchases of kobans, but it's nice to know they are there if i need them.

But even then, I will not spend $10/month on a browser game.  I might consider $5 or MAYBE as high as $7.50 for appropriate conveniences.  But $10 is too much for what this is.  I'd rather use that money for some other PC or console game.  I enjoy this game and it keeps me entertained and i don't mind shelling out a couple bucks to show some appreciation to the devs for their work.  But if they're gonna up the deal, at least make it comparable to the existing one.  If you like it, great.  I'm not a fan.

[Cantrix]

3 hours ago, Lhans said:

Well I suppose it'll be of use for those people in the upper league, they'll get their max points in no time. So less than one minute when the league starts?

That doesn't matter, because you could always catch up later on in the event and they have to beat everyone else faster than anyone, to have a guaranteed first place. If you wait to be capped at exactly 15 pts, you will lose seconds(if you are strictly following the timer) each time you use it, whilte this won't be the case for sb who's manually doing all his fights. Moreover you don't have control over who you'll befighting and imagine if sb presumably of the weakest players boosted himself to the brim, just then... spells a disaster for your first place- I've been there once! So the 15x option doesn't count as a bonus, but rather as a liability. And as i've said sooner the kobans the card provides per euro are diminished. It costs more than tripple the price of a silver, so it should provide three times the kobans that silver provides(to be reasonable) 1800x3=5400 exctly the amount you will need to make a 10x Spin in the epic pachinko. Even if the case was such(it is not) it would still be a damn expensive thing for the services it provides, but at least you would still get the worth of your money) now feels more like a transparrent cashgrab. I mean it's good that they are making a new game and i would support them if it's good, but why do i have to pay for something i probably won't have the time to play or even might dislike?

[fap.titans.gra]

when the patch will be online? and will the server be offline? If so for how long?

[Lhans]

5 hours ago, Cantrix said:

That doesn't matter, because you could always catch up later on in the event and they have to beat everyone else faster than anyone, to have a guaranteed first place. If you wait to be capped at exactly 15 pts, you will lose seconds(if you are strictly following the timer) each time you use it, whilte this won't be the case for sb who's manually doing all his fights. 

Nah I don't think you understood what I meant. Don't you get a full bar at start? So basically if you already buffed up and able to beat everyone else even when RNG favored your opponent more, it would go 15x, refill, 15x, refill, repeat until you're done. No way to catch up later if you're already at max points. As for the koban expenditure, not sure which upper league where this is feasible. At least they'd save some kobans from the free 15x.

As for waiting for it to get capped at exactly 15 pts, I don't see the point of not using the refill for that. Even if people are playing conservatively (by beating everyone else first who might beat them due to RNG), I could imagine people suddenly at max points out of nowhere near the end of the league by using the top paragraph strategy to finish off the last points.

[Huangover]

Maybe I am the only player that thinks this way, please correct the folly in my logic if that is the case, but the only disadvantage to players by creating an increased income stream by pay card or club is if there exists a race to the finish line. There is no finish line, so what does any of this matter? No reward exists for players by being the richest, most girls in harem, fastest to get there outcome. Half the girls in most events I have no interest in and they contribute very little on an individual basis to my overall stats. This is  still very much a voyeuristic game anyway.

What I find most annoying is no longer being able to drop the girls I want, I don;t want them all, during a normal event due to the reduced drop rate and the shortened length of events.

Not being able to drop the girls I want, or any girl at all, in an event will drive me away from the game faster than any other thing else. It is slowly becoming a boring exercise.