[ 24-Nov-20 ] Tech Divas PoA - Discussion

[DisgustingMarsupial]

Kiara is the clearly standout for me. Bought the pass though because I desperately need resources.

[Xemnas]

Well i try to contrubute too last one for me is (correct me if i'm wrong)

Doctor Ritsuko Akagi from Evangelion

Like them all btw

Edited November 24, 2020 by Xemnas

[Jan Red Dragon]

hace 34 minutos, Joker555 dijo:

*they didn't* 

unfortunately everything remains the same ....

someone shoot me (I'm suffering) ....

Please Kinkoid put an emoji of a zombie pierced by a bullet in the head spreading the brains on the wall because that's what I feel every time you put a PoA ...

PS:120 PLAYERD DEFEATED and no arena and is the last event in this month (finger up sarcastic)

[Albert80082]

43 minutes ago, Zamio said:

Lol. Discount that really isn't one?

The point is to make it look like a discount even though it in reality isn't. This is part of a pretty scummy business tactic called anchoring.

You've seen how overpriced the "non special" koban pack prices are? That is because Kinkoid does not actually expect you to buy any of them. No, they are there to setup initial pricing (anchor), to which you are supposed to compare all other types of purchases in game. Basically it goes like this:
1. You get an ingame offer for 50 bucks. You say no to that because that is way overpriced for a mobile gacha game.

2. Couple sessions later, you get offered a special offer, where you can get the same stuff, but this time its for 15

3. You are now more inclined to buy the special offer, because your anchor was at 50

Rest assured, the "discount" is permanent, they will never want you to pay 27k kobans for a single PoA. To be honest, the game is free, and is also one of the better monetized games on Nutaku, so i guess they deserve some degree of leniency  (even though i hate season pass, by far biggest offender). I just wish they didn't rub the monetization and all the value so much into our faces all the time.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Albert80082
Edit: Typo

[Max669]

il y a 12 minutes, Jan Red Dragon a dit :

PS:120 PLAYERD DEFEATED and no arena and is the last event in this month (finger up sarcastic)

I think it's 110 actually but yeah, you're right.

They did decrease the total number of PvP wins needed (160 => 110), but without the arena, the chances to win PvP fights went down so much more than that. In the past, I had a very good chance to win up to 3 fights in the arena every 30 minutes, *unboosted*. Now, I may perhaps eventually win 1 fight per hour if the wind blows in the right direction, *with 4 boosters on*...

There's still the League to get some wins, fortunately - if you're not stuck in a league too hard for your power level, that is. Regardless, it looks like this PoA will be harder and more tedious than the previous ones.

 

[Antimon]

47 minuti fa, Zamio ha scritto:

I think they calculated all the rewards worth in kobans ...

something like 1 Girl = 5400

1 MPX6 = so and so kobans 

20 CPS = 1 recharge = 215 kobans

and came up with 27,000

 

someone can probably confirm the math

 

Just a marketing technique to make the 7200 price more appealing

Exactly this. considering the epic pachinko x10 cost as the cost of a single girl, 27k kobans is the real value of the premium path rewards' pool (and with real value I mean how many kobans one player would have to spend to buy all that girls/orbs/tickets/CPS/energy, with the kobans cost each of these things has). The fact that these values are far from being considered "worthy of the expense" is not a new thing. 

The "real value" is correct; No, I would not spend 27kobans for those rewards, but yes, I'd love to spend 7200 kobans for those rewards; We do not have any evidence to suspect they'll remove the "discount" from next PoA (the "real value" of this new PoA is practically the same as those of past PoAs, this time they only decided to show it)

[Oloipamelarissa]

Do we need to finish the quests in order? 

Edited November 24, 2020 by Oloipamelarissa

[Xemnas]

Just now, Oloipamelarissa said:

Do we bed to finish the quests in order? 

Yes, step by step

[Master Edward]

27k kobans for PoA bonus rewards, I haven't laughed like that for a long time. Thanks, kinkoid 😂

[jelom]

The estimated value is correct:

[jpanda]

1 hour ago, Max669 said:

I think it's 110 actually but yeah, you're right.

They did decrease the total number of PvP wins needed (160 => 110), but without the arena, the chances to win PvP fights went down so much more than that. In the past, I had a very good chance to win up to 3 fights in the arena every 30 minutes, *unboosted*. Now, I may perhaps eventually win 1 fight per hour if the wind blows in the right direction, *with 4 boosters on*...

There's still the League to get some wins, fortunately - if you're not stuck in a league too hard for your power level, that is. Regardless, it looks like this PoA will be harder and more tedious than the previous ones.

 

At least tomorrow is reset day, tho I suspected this might happen, I was going easy on ToF.  I am sort of skeptical that they plan the days out and wonder if we got lucky but maybe there is some genius behind the wheel=)

Conversely, I am now afraid to go too hard on Seasons because I need every win...so it's basically one rewards track vs another (I took the Seasons survey before realizing this, oops;p).  I imagine anyone who went hard on PoP might have the same issue.  It's a rough one.

Hopefully I'm overworrying and it all turns out OK.  I've had similar doubts in the past and I've been fine.

Good luck all.

Edited November 24, 2020 by jpanda

[Lemus]

28 minutes ago, jelom said:

The estimated value is correct:

One of the main rules of trade says - a product / service costs as much as they are willing to pay for them, and not how much they are trying to sell. In this case, the price of everything except the girls will be zero, and the girls can be estimated at 5k (5400 is with 9 additional things in pachinko). And then it turns out more or less adequate instead of 10k they ask for 7.2k, this is a normal deal.
And so it all looks like our greedy Russian marketers who have heard about some kind of "Black Friday" in America, but are firmly convinced that this is just when they write an amount 10 times more expensive above the usual price of the product, cross out and sculpt a huge sticker "sale discount 90% ". And then they take offense that everyone laughs at them and calls them "greedy idiots."

[Lunik]

Finally a PoA where I like all 4 girls. Sure, they could be drawn even better, but at least their overall theme looks appealing. Hopefully the art gets even better once we obtain them.

As far as the event goes, it'll be a looooooooooooong grind, before we manage to fulfill the PvP fights quota. But then again, it's always like this. Hopefully I stay below 15th place in the Tower of Fame, then it'd get much easier.


On a side note, than 'discount' sticker is really just a pathetic attempt to make as much out of 'Black Friday' as possible. As long as the price stays at 7.2K I guess I'm fine with it, but they could just drop the discount tactics and focus on more important elements of the game. Overall however, I'm impressed with this one, compared to the decent/completely boring previous PoAs.

[Makinen]

1 hour ago, Max669 said:

I think it's 110 actually but yeah, you're right.

They did decrease the total number of PvP wins needed (160 => 110), but without the arena, the chances to win PvP fights went down so much more than that. In the past, I had a very good chance to win up to 3 fights in the arena every 30 minutes, *unboosted*. Now, I may perhaps eventually win 1 fight per hour if the wind blows in the right direction, *with 4 boosters on*...

There's still the League to get some wins, fortunately - if you're not stuck in a league too hard for your power level, that is. Regardless, it looks like this PoA will be harder and more tedious than the previous ones.

 

Yep, and to make matters worse you actually lose like 20-30 points on a loss, so NOT ONLY are you down a kiss from the loss since the event only wants wins, you're stuck spending another 2-3 kisses on getting back to where you were in Seasons.

Yay.

To clarify, even if you did prepare by having a full Kiss bar at the start of each Seasons stage, that's still 80 hours worth of regen, or well over half the amount of time you have to complete the ENTIRE event. I understand it needs some time for a new feature to be gotten right, but in my opinion they jumped the gun a little by axing the Arena before they could iron out the quirks in this one.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Makinen

[windia]

hurray!!

 

[Master Edward]

1 hour ago, jelom said:

The estimated value is correct:

Devs think that every girl cost 5400 kobans. For me one girl costs not more that 2000 kobans, it's maximal price of kobans, which I'm ready spend on a girl.

[Belisar]

5400 for the guaranteed girl from the epic pachinko

[Makinen]

Yeah, it's why the entire event really isn't worth it unless you're absolutely sure you can make it to the final Tier.

If you buy the bonus for 1,200 kobans (or 7,200 if you play on here because big numbers are betterer) and reach the end of the event, you're essentially paying 600 / 3,600 kobans per Girl (the other two being free). 

If you buy the bonus for 1,200 / 7,200 kobans and DON'T reach the end of the event, then you've paid 1,200 for one Girl (again, the other one being free), so you might as well have hit up the 900 / 5,400 koban Pachinko for a guaranteed drop and saved yourself the trouble. Yep, you either play to win, or not play at all beyond a bare minimum.

Of course, there's some extra stuff as well (Combativity, tickets et cetera), but let's face it, the game is about getting Girls. Everything else is just a means to an end, so it's going to be valued in accordance to its worth in reaching those goals, so Girls are the only rewards that hold actual value here. To clarify, you wouldn't spend kobans to refill Combativity if there wasn't a time limited event going on and you were just running 10 shards short of getting a Girl. It's basic value according to demand.

[GeorgeMTO]

4 hours ago, Joker555 said:

*they didn't*

Mod Hat: They did. You might find the judgment insufficient, but if you imply again that there was no adjustment, you'll be marked as a bad troll

1 hour ago, jelom said:

The estimated value is correct:

I'd say you need to increase the value of the girls if you're making the assessment from Kinkoid's perspective. Obviously the EvP and MyP shows that a specific girl is worth significantly more than any random girl

1 hour ago, Lemus said:

One of the main rules of trade says - a product / service costs as much as they are willing to pay for them, and not how much they are trying to sell. In this case, the price of everything except the girls will be zero, and the girls can be estimated at 5k (5400 is with 9 additional things in pachinko). And then it turns out More or Less adequate instead of 10k they ask for 7.2k, this is a normal deal.
And so it all looks like our greedy Russian marketers who have heard about some kind of "Black Friday" in America, but are firmly convinced that this is just when they write an amount 10 times more expensive above the usual price of the product, cross out and sculpt a huge sticker "sale discount 90% ". And then they take offense that everyone laughs at them and calls them "greedy idiots."

Many people do pay those prices. We see plenty of those kind of whales in this game. Just because you aren't paying it doesn't mean others aren't. Kinkoid decided that's what they'll sell them for,  and some people pay that price. Others only do it during discounts. Others do it not at all. But this kind of crappy argument is really not welcome here, so improve your criticism or don't provide them in the discussion thread.

[GeorgeMTO]

43 minutes ago, windia said:

hurray!!

 

This one deserves its own post response

THANK FUCKING GOD!!!!

[Makinen]

20 minutes ago, GeorgeMTO said:

Many people do pay those prices. We see plenty of those kind of whales in this game. Just because you aren't paying it doesn't mean others aren't. Kinkoid decided that's what they'll sell them for,  and some people pay that price. Others only do it during discounts. Others do it not at all. But this kind of crappy argument is really not welcome here, so improve your criticism or don't provide them in the discussion thread.

Actually, playing Devil's Advocate here, what i think Lemus meant was the following:

Imagine an item at a store. This item has been $ 100,- since the first time it arrived in stock, and it's been $ 100,- every time since. Now, there's a special sale, and the card says "Down from $ 150,- to $ 100,-". 

To someone that doesn't know, or is new to the store, yeah, that sounds like a good deal. To everyone that's been to the store a few times, you can't exactly blame them for wanting to point out the BS. And sure, Kinkoid is in its full rights in determining the prices of their products all on their lonesome, but so are we for wanting to point out the obvious discrepancies.

On that note -- This is an often seen tactic in stores: A product is, say, $ 34,99. It then goes on sale, with the card saying "Down to $ 25,- from $ 45,-", the sale continues for a couple of weeks, and at the end the item is back to its usual price of... $ 39,99. Because most people remember it being down from 45 to 25, and it's still "cheap" in their minds as not-quite-40 is still less than 45. So keep an eye out for the price points the next time this event comes 'round.

-----

Also, while we're on the topic of marketing, there's something else i don't quite understand about this. The way this event is set up is to make it more enticing to buy the bonus the higher up in Tier you get, because more rewards unlock for the same amount of investment (Seasons is another example, but let's not rail on that right now). From a rational point of view, would it not make sense that, in order to maximize sales, you'd make it so that as many competing players as possible make it past the final Tier? Otherwise, you'd have people go through a whole bunch of effort, only for them to end up overpaying for a Girl compared to... pretty much every single Pachinko variant in the game: Even Epic Draft is 16,7% cheaper.

[GeorgeMTO]

5 minutes ago, Makinen said:

Actually, playing Devil's Advocate here, what i think Lemus meant was the following:

If that's what they meant, then they're even stupider than I was giving them credit for. Because it's not them saying that's what the bundle normally costs, but what every individual item in the bundle costs individually added together. The savings isn't a "short term discount", it's a "bulk buy special".

 

6 minutes ago, Makinen said:

From a rational point of view, would it not make sense that, in order to maximize sales, you'd make it so that as many competing players as possible make it past the final Tier?

No competent player has had trouble reaching the end of PoA in the past, and I seen no reason to expect any differently from this one.

[Joker555]

57 minutes ago, GeorgeMTO said:

Mod Hat: They did. You might find the judgment insufficient, but if you imply again that there was no adjustment, you'll be marked as a bad troll

I know what you are trying to say, but as non-native speaker I see original question as if "Lets see if they handle it well", and in my personal judgement it was indeed insufficient, but it is indeed *something that helps*. That is if they did this change because of seasons and not some other reasons like they adjusted amount of pvp wins you needed before(sometimes because of changing duration of the event, sometimes not).

Otherwise his original post was implying "Lets see if they will hold responsibility for it", denying it would be silly 

Edited November 24, 2020 by Joker555

[Makinen]

4 minutes ago, GeorgeMTO said:

No competent player has had trouble reaching the end of PoA in the past, and I seen no reason to expect any differently from this one.

Yeah, that's just it... 

As visible on the first page, we went from needing 160 Arena wins to needing 110 Seasons wins. Generously assuming four full bars that's 70 Seasons wins versus 148 Arena wins, because there you'd have had three targets waiting for you each time as well.

148 Arena wins would take you 25 hours ((148 / 3 targets) / 2 resets/hour) total, with a 2 loss buffer, spread out over four Tiers so we'll ignore sleeping times.

70 Seasons wins would take you 70 hours (again, already assuming all wins on full bars), which takes you close to two days on a 6-day event LONGER than it used to.

And that's assuming you've got a full set of wins, which become harder the higher up in Tier you are. Completing PoA gave no player trouble in the past (case in point, i got all of them so far myself), but can you really say tripling the time requirement within an unchanged deadline wouldn't pose any additional problems whatsoever?

And sure, there's the Tower. But we're comparing the old Arena directly to Seasons here, one being a direct replacement of the other. And taken at face value, Season win requirements don't come anywhere near former Arena win requirements even with the lower numerical values shown in this PoA.

[Esios]

9th quest is brutal : if I didn't spared a lot of Ymens "just in case", it would have been impossible for me to get over it 😥

Since the amount depends on your level I guess it is far more affordable for beginners and I'm supposed to know at this point that PoA requires Ymens on some quests but damn... 13M was my personal all time record one month ago 😅