Discgear Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 @Noacc Take it how ever you want. But when you represent a company, acting on your personal feelings is just causing unneeded commotion for Kinkoid. I said nothing about chargeback fraud. What I don't like is being lumped in with fraud. What I've said is solely based on my opinion. To say that online call to actions are empty. All the sensible people would just not do it, they don't want to loose their accounts. And especially if its against the law in order to take part. This stems from a bigger problem. That the company has made some poor choices. Players are probably getting more drastic to be heard. I suspect things are starting to not go so well for Kinkoid for an employee to make a statement about this. Nobody here wants to commit fraud or even mean it. I'm sure everyone here, including me, supports Kinkoid to take action against fraudulent claims. It could have been as simple as "Unjust chargebacks is considered fraud and will be dealt accordingly by law. I also didn't like what you said because its devalues the potential risk." or what ever reason you didn't like my comment. Something like that. Maybe you didn't mean to come across like this. But I surely hope you didn't mean to threaten me with legal action simply based on my opinion. That would be laughable. I want to be wrong on this. If you don't want me to discuss further. Order it and I shall obey. I won't waste your and my time if I can't be heard. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigma29 Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 I wish Kinkoid would stop with all the kneejerk reactions. Now I may be wrong but my impression is that they just push changes without proper testing, thus them scrambling to fix champions after this patch. Can you please not be in such a hurry to implement changes you have not properly considered. The reason the community gets mad is we feel like we are being jerked around, especially considering the lack of overall communication. It would be much better if updates were slower but more considered. 8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepidocter Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 (edited) The whole thing look by some month like a nicotine dependency. No one is happy, just relieved. The cigarette end, you start feel bad, you light up the new cigarette, and that sound as a relief. But the overall level of happyness is lower. Done a patch, people feel bad, patching the patch, relief. I don't see the point of inciting this cycle. I think the overall mistake is most of the early game was carbon copied from what trend at the time. This Club feature is practically equal the one in another game I can quote. A feature now left dead by designers and players. You cannot simply do a multiplayer activity if the engine itself doesn't allow shared actions. Most of Club issues, evident or hidden, come from mixing up two things. Can we have a proper game designer? Not a coder, there's plenty of coders around. A game designer. One that can conceptualize game methods and practices? There are great figures for that around the world. My guess is that even such new "magic numbers" will crash on reality. Wanna deal 'sense of cohoperation'? Changing the math of an indivvidual event is not the answer. Wanna deal a girl? Just deal it, WTF, you did it for the Stairway. Edited February 4, 2022 by lepidocter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlow Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 Can someone explain to me the spreadsheet? I don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepidocter Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 1 ora fa, Morlow ha scritto: Can someone explain to me the spreadsheet? I don't get it. There are 3 columns. Old (pre patch), Current (what's going on at the moment) and New (what they patch again in the near future). Get the row equivalent to players fighting the boss, check your impression, get your shard reward. So, for example, if you do 5% impression and 20 club members join the fight, you get 8 shards. If you do 5% ad 30 club members join the fight you got... 8 shards again...? But if you do 5% impression and 40 people join, you get up to 9 shards! Unluckily if only 10 people and you deal 10%, you get... what? 12 shards? This is how you read the table: "we did some wrong math. We did bad math again but see? Numbers are greater. That's what you lamented, right? Low numbers, right?". I had to explain the difference between low and unfair to someone. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrXY Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 I appreciate that we are getting more insight/explanation from kinkoid through Noacc here. I wish we can have more of this in the future and better before a change is released on the production server and not after. There are a lot of guys here which give you some well-thought feedback (respect to this little community here. I'm often impressed about the good discussions). Now back to the currently discussed change: I'm in a semi active club. There were some heavy hitters which are active enough to beat the champion in an reasonable rate. Something which I didn't like before was a situation where you can constantly hit the champion, improve your shards and in the end someone just invests a big amount of kobans/tickets and for all these hours of clicking your are back to a low number of shards. The new situation improves at least this case, but overall it is bad. We have a very slow progress now, because there is not a real incentive for someone to put in a lot of tickets or even spend kobans. Getting a girl on this rate is highly unlikely for everyone in my club (my assumption). From my current point of view every change you mentioned is better than the situation we have now. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpanda Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 (edited) On 2/4/2022 at 5:18 AM, Noacc said: Copied fresh from discord 🎉 Dear Heroes, Thanks to your recent feedback on the Club Champion changes we have reviewed formula to match the playstyle of both active and not -so-active players. We would like to share the table of calculations and the latest formula: Here are some examples of different participants counts and Impression% done, see the numbers in the three formulas: *We are comparing the calculations of the OLD vs NEW formula.* And here are how the formula for newst calculations are done: ROUND(SQRT(Participants)*0.6)+ROUNDUP(Impression%). //snip Thank you four your feedback. Don't forget to leave your thoughts Kind regards, Kinkoid PP We are also looking for ways to cap the level of the Club Champions, futher improving their balance. PPP On Table 1 there is a very specific corner case where the return is -6% My club currently has 17 participants with 4 shards, so I'm assuming the first column is <= (less than or equal to) the set before it - nothing else makes sense to me unless a subset isn't represented (1-9 or 40). I do like the idea of % of club participating mattering but I think this chart is a simple win for all. I also (still) think that this math doesn't at all factor in for people who have the girl helping which is a big thing - bigger the more shards you give out, so that still needs (separate) attention. Anyway appreciate a quick turnaround, sort of awkward to know what to do without knowing when this will come into play. If I go fast maybe I can get another 4 shards, if I wait longer I could get 4-24 more with less work 😜 Thanks for listening! PS: One question, is the impression also <=? So if I have 2% impression in a 10 club am I getting 3 shards? or 7? Or what if you have 100% impression? Is that cap at 27? Or are those just examples and it sliding scales? UPDATE(edit): Duh, it says example right there, sorry >.< Edited February 8, 2022 by jpanda UPDATE(edit) = answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Kenrae Posted February 4, 2022 Moderator Share Posted February 4, 2022 13 hours ago, bohammettuz said: If there was a way to bank a number of attempts, like seasons or almost any other activity in the game, and spend them in a burst, that would make participating in champions a lot more attractive to a very large number of players. Actually, that's a great idea. We could have the option to spend 10 tickets at once but then have a 150 minutes timeout (cancellable with kobans, of course). That would make the champions far more enjoyable without breaking the current functionality. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
111_111 Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 The new rule for calculating shards from the champion's girl is absolutely terrible. We have 5 active players in the club and we knock out the champion in 3-4 days. Everyone received about 8-12 fragments, those who participated more received a little more... Now all the desire to fight him completely disappears. We will defeat him in a total of 600 fights and get 2-3 fragments. And who needs it? I'm afraid that now everyone in our club will give up fighting with him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incubys Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 Any change to the current system has to be better. I'm lucky to be in an active club with 30+ members competing regularly and a leader who enforces Impression caps. This won't be a popular suggestion but if you are in a club with only a few active members you may be better off in a new club. @NoaccYou have access to a number of exceptionally knowledgeable & experienced players. As the TS doesn't seem to work as a testing ground for potential changes (this was on TS but last time I checked only one person had mentioned it) I would urge you to set up a small group of these players who you can use as a sounding board. I realise there isn't a messaging system here so maybe on Discord, where you could put suggestions to the selected players for comments. I'm sure if this had happened before this change to CC you would have been advised of the potential outrage it could cause. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator DvDivXXX Posted February 5, 2022 Moderator Share Posted February 5, 2022 42 minutes ago, Incubys said: I would urge you to set up a small group of these players who you can use as a sounding board. I realise there isn't a messaging system here so maybe on Discord, where you could put suggestions to the selected players for comments. They already have a hush-hush "focus group" similar to what you suggest, only it's with Rosso and I'm not clear on the criteria to get invited. I don't know the full group, but the handful of members I do know (or used to know, for one of them) are all long-time players, most of them in D3, and know the actual player experience and the meta-game a lot better than any Kinkoid employee (that I know of, it's not impossible one or more of them secretly plays the game non-casually and with a real account without God-mode activated; we do know for a fact that it isn't Rosso's case, however, he explicitly confirmed it himself in a live audio Q&A on the record). Those players already managed to convince Rosso and team to make some adjustments, but typically nowhere near enough compared to their actual feedback. We have them to thank for the current Contest PoV being slightly less terrible than originally planned, for instance. But it's also clear that their feedback isn't taken seriously enough imho. Several members of that group and other players in the know have started suggesting basing a Contest PoV on ranks would be bad and that they should base it on points scored in contests instead, the moment they heard about this plan. That was heard, but it was not followed. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incubys Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said: They already have a hush-hush "focus group" similar to what you suggest, only it's with Rosso and I'm not clear on the criteria to get invited. I don't know the full group, but the handful of members I do know (or used to know, for one of them) are all long-time players, most of them in D3, and know the actual player experience and the meta-game a lot better than any Kinkoid employee (that I know of, it's not impossible one or more of them secretly plays the game non-casually and with a real account without God-mode activated; we do know for a fact that it isn't Rosso's case, however, he explicitly confirmed it himself in a live audio Q&A on the record). Those players already managed to convince Rosso and team to make some adjustments, but typically nowhere near enough compared to their actual feedback. We have them to thank for the current Contest PoV being slightly less terrible than originally planned, for instance. But it's also clear that their feedback isn't taken seriously enough imho. Several members of that group and other players in the know have started suggesting basing a Contest PoV on ranks would be bad and that they should base it on points scored in contests instead, the moment they heard about this plan. That was heard, but it was not followed. Thank you for stating this, I'll get of my high horse about this now lol It seems a shame that such a valuable source of in depth game knowledge isn't taken more seriously. Maybe after this shit storm and hasty back track they may start to take more notice to the group. Yeah right who am I trying to convince here ? Edit : just a thought but can't @Noacchave there own secret focus group 😉 Edited February 5, 2022 by Incubys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator DvDivXXX Posted February 5, 2022 Moderator Share Posted February 5, 2022 27 minutes ago, Incubys said: Edit : just a thought but can't @Noacchave there own secret focus group 😉 He kind of does de facto, as the rest of the Community Managers do. That's because moderators (eg just normal players entrusted to moderate the communities, not Kinkoid employees) took the initiative a few months ago to create and maintain a dedicated Discord group and invite all CMs and mods from all platforms and game versions (it came from me and Sly, originally, now it's maintained by Numbers), so that all mods and CMs can communicate and share info and feedback in one place. Yeah, I know, you'd probably expect something like this to have always been a thing, and an initiative from actual Kinkoid employees, and that would make sense. But no, it's fairly recent and something that player-moderators made happen, not KK. Our feedback there is heard as well, and sometimes welcomed (other times "uncalled for" though, hashtag surveys ^^). Most importantly, giving feedback to CMs is a lot less direct than giving feedback to Rosso the Bosso directly. All Noacc or Magrat or any other CM can do with our feedback is forward it to "the team". Rosso leads the team slash the company slash the Haremverse... So, yeah. No real advantage on that front. That Discord room is still a great place and a lot of us mods who didn't even know of each other prior to that have met there for the first time and have been having nice chats and positive exchanges thanks to it for the past few months. It also allows CMs to inform us all at once when they have info or instructions to give us. You're welcome. PS: 100 points to whoever gets the epic heavy metal reference in that post first. \m/ 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Kenrae Posted February 5, 2022 Moderator Share Posted February 5, 2022 2 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said: PS: 100 points to whoever gets the epic heavy metal reference in that post first. \m/ I saw him live some time ago and I prefered him over Manowar themselves . 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator DvDivXXX Posted February 5, 2022 Moderator Share Posted February 5, 2022 1 minute ago, Kenrae said: I saw him live some time ago and I prefered him over Manowar themselves . 💯 No doubt about it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElViejito Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 En 4/2/2022 a las 7:18, Noacc dijo: Copied fresh from discord 🎉 ... And here are how the formula for newst calculations are done: ROUND(SQRT(Participants)*0.6)+ROUNDUP(Impression%). ... ROUND(SQRT(Participants)*0.6)+ROUNDUP(Impression%) In the formula Round() what function is it? Rounding. SQRT() I assume is square root. RoundUP() Rounding to the nearest higher. Thanks 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaa Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 to everyone who hoped for a quick CC fix: 1 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natstar Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 (edited) 43 minutes ago, blaa said: to everyone who hoped for a quick CC fix: Sucks for the newer players that need the old club champ girl then because they need those players to replace the older players that stop playing. Lucky, it's not a new club champ girl this month or would be a lot more complaining about it because would be effecting everyone and not just those that still need this cc girl. Edited February 8, 2022 by natstar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaa Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 16 minutes ago, natstar said: Lucky, it's not a new club champ girl this month or would be a lot more complaining about it because would be effecting everyone and not just those that still need this cc girl. At least it's not a new CC girl yet, remember when they added the girl to chad 1 day before CC switched ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boulie2 Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 The first CC of the month is finally dead in my club. I ended first with 78 ticket, ~47% done. The second used 56 ticket, and did ~43%. The third 26 ticket, and ~10%. There was also 4 ppl who amounted to around 0.6%. And for all of those ticket, 9 days of battle... We each won 2 shards. Yup, i'm happy this get axed soon 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustVisitingReborn Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 Patch notes: Full screen button for mobile would be a huge QoL improvement and it's nice they're starting to tell us when they change stats. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punj Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 (edited) After the patch, when i open the activity page, it starts a loop between daily goals and missions tabs. Using pc, chrome. Either with or without the script running. Not happening from mobile device. It is happening to a clubmate as well. edit: not happening anymore. Edited February 9, 2022 by punj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madman6543 Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 3 hours ago, JustVisitingReborn said: Patch notes: Full screen button for mobile would be a huge QoL improvement and it's nice they're starting to tell us when they change stats. I think otherwise the notes were too short. But no fix of club champions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaa Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 4 minutes ago, Madman6543 said: I think otherwise the notes were too short. But no fix of club champions? no "fix" yes we also got a fast mythic-pachinko rotation, but it's not offically announced yet (probably a forced nutaku valentines offer, so i guess it's gonna last 5/6days) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liliat Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 It's not part of the "current" patch notes, but the new CC formula is available on the test server. The problem (?) with this part of the formula: Citation +ROUNDUP(Impression%) is that if a single player participates and manages to beat the boss on their own, they get 101 shards. It's probably not ideal, and I think there should be a cap to a player's shards per impression% (Around 25 or 30 maybe? still with the extra shards from number of participants, i.e. +1 to +4 depending on club size and activity). With the original formula, a single active player couldn't get more than 7 shards (probably to avoid one-man clubs). Well, in my case, on the test server, it's not really an issue; I can't beat the CC on my own but on the real server, that's definitely an option, and might encourage players to go solo, which isn't great. Another thing we can see on this screenshot: shard count still depends on the "current impression", and not the "total impression". I only did 6.56%, which should be 7 "guaranteed" shards, +1 for 1 participant; but the game is actually still considering I'm doing 100% of the impression. So, it will keep going up and down over time, depending on other players activity. (Regarding this week's actual patch notes: there's really nothing to say ). 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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