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Mythic Equipment - New Feature


FinderKeeper
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I was thinking a bit about the new mythic items today, and a few interesting thoughts occurred to me.

First, It occurred to me that non-mythic equipment is now essentially no different from Affection items or Books. It's just a resource you spend to upgrade something else. There is no reason for them to be individualized items with randomized stats taking up literally thousands of slots in your inventory. Even players below level 200 level up so quickly that new equipment is just always going to better than old equipment and its exact stats really don't matter. So why not make it so all items of the same type and level have the same stats, and just stack them in a single inventory slot? This would massively clean up the problem of inventory bloat. And since the individualized stats no longer matter, we would lose nothing of substance. 

The other thing that I realized is that the equipment vendor has gone from 99.9% useless to 100% useless. There is no reason, not even a hypothetical one, to ever buy from him. GPx10 offers much better value for obtaining upgrade fodder, and the only niche he ever had was the incredibly low chance that he would stock a legendary item with very high stats. In my experience, I'd spot a usable item in the equipment vendor about once a year, so somewhere in the neighborhood 0.1% chance for him to stock something good. Doesn't mean I'd buy it (he was quite overpriced) but he was at least offering something I wanted. Now with mythic items, there is a zero percent chance for him to ever stock anything worthwhile, and since GPx10 is better value (much, much better value) for getting upgrade fodder there is no reason you would ever buy from him. 

The equipment vendor has needed a rework for a long time now, but I'm not sure what the best way to rework him would be. It probably isn't a good idea for him to directly sell mythic items (even if it were for kobons) but as things stand right now there is no reason why anyone would ever purchase non-mythic equipment so he definitely needs to be doing something else.

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18 minutes ago, Attirm said:

...non-mythic equipment is now essentially no different from Affection items or Books.

The other thing that I realized is that the equipment vendor has gone from 99.9% useless to 100% useless.

I still need mono stat gear for the pantheon.  Mythic gear doesn't grant as high of a bonus.  It's like 1400 less for me.

The equipment vendor has always been useless on the main server for me, but on the test server, I can usually buy some nice gear once I've leveled up.

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1 hour ago, Attirm said:

I was thinking a bit about the new mythic items today, and a few interesting thoughts occurred to me.

First, It occurred to me that non-mythic equipment is now essentially no different from Affection items or Books. It's just a resource you spend to upgrade something else. There is no reason for them to be individualized items with randomized stats taking up literally thousands of slots in your inventory. Even players below level 200 level up so quickly that new equipment is just always going to better than old equipment and its exact stats really don't matter. So why not make it so all items of the same type and level have the same stats, and just stack them in a single inventory slot? This would massively clean up the problem of inventory bloat. And since the individualized stats no longer matter, we would lose nothing of substance. 

The other thing that I realized is that the equipment vendor has gone from 99.9% useless to 100% useless. There is no reason, not even a hypothetical one, to ever buy from him. GPx10 offers much better value for obtaining upgrade fodder, and the only niche he ever had was the incredibly low chance that he would stock a legendary item with very high stats. In my experience, I'd spot a usable item in the equipment vendor about once a year, so somewhere in the neighborhood 0.1% chance for him to stock something good. Doesn't mean I'd buy it (he was quite overpriced) but he was at least offering something I wanted. Now with mythic items, there is a zero percent chance for him to ever stock anything worthwhile, and since GPx10 is better value (much, much better value) for getting upgrade fodder there is no reason you would ever buy from him. 

The equipment vendor has needed a rework for a long time now, but I'm not sure what the best way to rework him would be. It probably isn't a good idea for him to directly sell mythic items (even if it were for kobons) but as things stand right now there is no reason why anyone would ever purchase non-mythic equipment so he definitely needs to be doing something else.

If you asked me what the bloated resource was before mythic gear, I would have said money/eq (which was essentially money back then).

Now that you spend eq as a resource, after I had similar thoughts as you, I have wondered if I will spend money on buying eq as a resource, because to me the most bloated resource is the least valuable.

Similarly, I wondered if money would even be the most bloated resource anymore since if not selling gear AND spending money on mythics it'd be double hit.

Tho, I suspect that there will be limited spending once people have mythics they want (and similar to affection, once max and waiting, you can spend time getting more) and things will go back to normal.

I also found it ironic, the game managed to add yet another resource even tho it was one we already had :P

Maybe additional thoughts to your chain (that's where my brain went) or ones you discarded already as foolish ;)

Interesting to monitor anyway :) 

Edited by jpanda
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2 hours ago, Attirm said:

The other thing that I realized is that the equipment vendor has gone from 99.9% useless to 100% useless. There is no reason, not even a hypothetical one, to ever buy from him. GPx10 offers much better value for obtaining upgrade fodder

Even GPx1, not even using orbs but just paying the 1.75M fee in Ymens for one random roll, gives flat out better value on average than buying a single legendary equipment at the market for over 18M.

(Incidentally I found out recently that this thing can fairly easily be maintained available most of the time and is a great and very flexible way to get rid of pesky "spend cash" tasks without outright throwing money away in donation contests or also needing a ton of other resources on hand like gifts and books for upgrading girls etc.).

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8 hours ago, Ravi-Sama said:

I still need mono stat gear for the pantheon.  Mythic gear doesn't grant as high of a bonus.  It's like 1400 less for me.

I'm not sure if that's true. Yes, mono legendary still has higher stat in the one category but the tradeoff is much less advantageous. Comparing rainbow legendary to mono legendary at level 500, you were getting roughly +2000 to your main stat at the cost of losing 3500 to both of the secondary stats and ego. The comparison with mythics is that you're gaining +1500 to the main stat at the cost of losing 4000 to both your secondaries and ego. 

Now maybe if it's a mythic item with no resonance mono might still have a niche, I'm not sure, but if you have a good attack resonance there's no way mono is ever better in any situation.

7 hours ago, jpanda said:

Similarly, I wondered if money would even be the most bloated resource anymore since if not selling gear AND spending money on mythics it'd be double hit.

There might be a money crunch in the short-run, but in the long-run I think GPx10 is just too generous and we'll eventually stabilize.

6 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

Even GPx1, not even using orbs but just paying the 1.75M fee in Ymens for one random roll, gives flat out better value on average than buying a single legendary equipment at the market for over 18M.

Definitely, but GPx10 gives the best which is why it's the one I mentioned. Only time I pay for GPx1 is when I need to do a "spend ymens" mission and have nothing else available to pay for. GPx1 orbs are worthless so I can just spend those and then I have a repeatable ymen sink that's not a complete waste. It's less efficient than GPx10, but you can't spend ymens on that until you've spent all your orbs, which you don't want to do if the contest isn't pachinko.

 

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il y a 14 minutes, Attirm a dit :

GPx1 orbs are worthless so I can just spend those and then I have a repeatable ymen sink that's not a complete waste

I'm still keeping my GPx1 as a backup for CbC contests. My primary orb there is MPx1, but if my pool runs empty and I need a few extra points, having a stash of 100+ GPx1 really helps.

I keep EPx1/GPx10 for regular or legendary Pachinko contests.

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58 minutes ago, Attirm said:

The comparison with mythics is that you're gaining +1500 to the main stat at the cost of losing 4000 to both your secondaries and ego.

Closer to +1700 to your main stat (which eats up the -4k in endurance and adds +2.8k on top from the value of main stat points alone; not that it's the biggest factor in a challenge like the final couple of Pantheon walls). The combined -8k in the two secondary stats only amount to -2k in defense and -4k  in harmony. Neither of which matter much against the high-level Pantheon bosses since they have so much more harmony than us no matter what, we might as well just consider that the entirety of the "shared" extra crit chance from that is theirs regardless of our own set up. Edit: and I forgot to spell out that defense in this game is so ridiculously low and ineffective compared to either attack or HP values that it barely registers as existing in most situations. Which leaves only the +1.7k to Attack.

Since this is a type of challenge in which 3 cordyceps (and a Headband) is the only booster setup that even can give a slim chance of victory, as Attack matters more than anything else in that context (and getting lucky beyond belief and against all odds with crits), I'm leaning towards top-tier mono legendary gear still being better than mythic gear in terms of raw stats.

Resonance bonuses are a whole other Pandora box, and obviously on paper, in a galaxy far far away once and if someone completes the quest for 6 matching ATTACK bonuses from their mythic gear, thus reaching the truly mythical in nature (in terms of how rare and unlikely to reach it is) post-everything-else whopping +12% Attack buff...  It will/would be insane and obviously worth losing the 10.2k raw Attack mono gear offers over random slash bonus-less mythic gear. That's extremely rare, unlikely and strong as hell, for sure. Basically a +50% to the Headband buff!

But barring that (or we'd have to calculate the threshold for when you stack up enough matching +2% from your mythic random bonuses that it more than makes up for the raw Attack lost)... Mono is still better and should be for a long time.

Plus, we never know what crazy new feature will be shoved into the game later down the road. Getting those near-maximum random rolls for all 6 mono slots takes a long long time and they're well worth saving up for a rainy day just in case, I'd say.

58 minutes ago, Attirm said:

Definitely, but GPx10 gives the best which is why it's the one I mentioned. Only time I pay for GPx1 is when I need to do a "spend ymens" mission and have nothing else available to pay for. GPx1 orbs are worthless

1/ GPx1 is the only fair comparison though, since GPx10 will almost always come from an orb and we definitely should and do stash these more often than not. Plus, the cost in Ymens for a GPx10 is like 200 or 300M? (maybe more, that's off the top of my head, as I rarely get to even see that price tag since it's covered by orbs ^^). This doesn't compare fairly with the 18M cost of a single legendary equip from the market. Whereas 1.7M vs 18M is pretty straightforward: you can get 10 GPx1 rolls for the price of one legendary fodder.

2/ And don't forget: GPx1 orbs (even more so than GPx10s I'd argue) just had their value supercharged by the mythic gear upgrading system itself. Before this, of course getting a bunch of epic gear was nearly worthless. Now though? 2 epic fodder items feed the hungry monster mythic gear machine with 150% of what 1 legendary fodder does. And you tend to get a lot more of these more consistently from x1 spins (at max Player Level at least) than from x10 spins (which guarantees a "+4 upgrading material" and often has more books and other stuff than just gear).

58 minutes ago, Attirm said:

I think GPx10 is just too generous

Shhh! Do you really want to take the chance Rosso or anyone reporting to him reads that kind of thing? Especially phrased like that?! ^^ They nerfed Ymen income to the ground like a year or two ago. I wouldn't want dangerous words like "generous" being thrown around lightly about anything we get for free. ^^

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Just for information, with 4 mythic equipments instead of 4 legendary mono stat equipments and no resonance bonus, my probability to win floor 1700 in pantheon is passed from "impossible" to 0.02% and it's not even with 3 cordys (2 cordys + 1 gingseng).

So, yes, I think mythic equipements are better than legendary mono stat equipments but you're right, it's probably better (for now) to keep them, just in case.

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il y a 33 minutes, Tom208 a dit :

So, yes, I think mythic equipements are better than legendary mono stat equipments but you're right, it's probably better (for now) to keep them, just in case.

I think so too. For "bad" mythic items, it is probably a close call, so mono "may" or "may not" be better, in some circumstances. For "good" mythic items (Ones with Atk% of your class), I'm pretty sure there's no competition - mythic all the way!

But as always with a combat system based on rounds, you might always have the possibility to benefit from minor bonuses that will just make you win 1 round earlier, or survive one more round, and thus provide better chances to win. Even Ego might win sometimes :)

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1 hour ago, Tom208 said:

So, yes, I think mythic equipements are better than legendary mono stat equipments

I can’t say about the landings, because I passed the previous one, and haven’t got to the next one yet, but on the stairs, mono-equipment greatly reduces the chances of winning.

1.thumb.jpg.bd46e9b70455f6a026ff78f4993f07ea.jpg

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14 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

(Incidentally I found out recently that this thing can fairly easily be maintained available most of the time and is a great and very flexible way to get rid of pesky "spend cash" tasks without outright throwing money away in donation contests or also needing a ton of other resources on hand like gifts and books for upgrading girls etc.).

Wait, recently? How did you pay for the cash PoA tasks then? 😅

 

8 hours ago, Attirm said:

GPx1 orbs are worthless

I don't consider any orb worthless since the addition of Cumback Contests.

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il y a 12 minutes, Kenrae a dit :

Wait, recently? How did you pay for the cash PoA tasks then? 😅

Personaly, I do those tasks by upgrading girls 😉
If I don't need her, I keep the new mythic girl of the month for the 2 last cash tasks. With the max button, it's pretty fast now.

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Yup; always keeping one mythic girl for these spend-cash tasks. You can keep the last 3 stars available, and do one star per quest, they line up nicely (Not so much anymore with the new Task 22, which costs more than a 6th star, but... Well, I just upgraded a couple of mythic items, including the one I got from Tier 21 😛 )

Since I'm bottlenecked by Gems and Books, there's no point rushing stars anyway.

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No point except the content itself, maybe? :D

But yeah, I used to do these tasks in a much more convoluted and annoying fashion than I'm doing them now.

Of course even that is not always an option depending on what other long-term plan I have going. For instance in preparation of the one CbC in ages (and for ages to come) in which I actually had a girl to obtain, I had been stashing up GPx1s from all sources for weeks prior. So the trick wasn't available then. But it'll be my go-to option from now on.

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I got my first item for my class yesterday and levelled it today (still undecided about non-class despite previous feedback - sorry if ungracious).

Either I waited the correct number of patches/time or I was expecting it to be way more annoying to level.  I had the feeling it'd be one item at a time unless I did auto and that the screen would refresh after each submission.

Very pleased there was no refresh at all (only had to scroll down once) and could do it all basically in one sitting.

There's way more annoying/patience things in this game than that :)  Frankly selling items is slightly more annoying to me (smaller number displayed, not sorted by rarity) and it meets the same end (inventory clearing).  I had a few super trivial nitpicks (won't even waste time stating them) otherwise good job IMO design (and anyone who contributed to the design by beta testing).

PS: I didn't use the auto feature at all, didn't find it necessary.

Edited by jpanda
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33 minutes ago, jpanda said:

PS: I didn't use the auto feature at all, didn't find it necessary.

I agree.  I did use the auto feature, but always had to deselect my fave gear.  Might as well just individually select them.  It takes the same time and effort to avoid selling fave gear, if you don't have millions of gear.

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Ever since Tom relieved me of my fear to accidentally destroy my favorite items, I've been using auto-select as a starting point. It's a bit "dumber" than the Max Out features for gifts and books, surprisingly. Like, it will ALWAYS select my lone legacy common item plus one epic item rather than just one legendary. But at least it's predictable, so that saves me a fair bit of time. Auto-select -> scroll all the way down to unselect Doggy the common dog -> scroll half way up to unselect my 4 favorite epics -> scroll all the way up to select the legendaries I actually want to burn.

It would go much quicker if didn't have a common item. But Doggy isn't going anywhere.

As far as drops go I've been pretty unlucky so far, or at least not lucky. 5 items total, covering only 3 slots thanks to two duplicates, and only two of the ones I bothered upgrading have one weak bonus each. I don't care too much at this point, as I said the first milestone is getting all 6 slots covered with mythic gear for the raw stats alone (and to offer 75 points in league when they "expire" ^^).

After that, there will be absolutely no incentive to upgrade any mythic gear piece I get until I actually land on a true keeper, which I don't expect to happen for months if not a year or more anyway. I'll keep all the dupes I get in the meantime just in case, but at level 1.

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On 11/17/2022 at 5:09 PM, FinderKeeper said:

Depending on the rarity, each piece of equipment has a different “material” value:

  • Common: 1
  • Rare: 2
  • Epic: 3
  • Legendary: 4
  • Mythic: 5

There's an error here: Mythic equipment cost 8 material

 

At the moment, I have already received 6 mythical equipment, of which 1 of my class and 2 duplicate types => to the trash. As a result, 4 upgraded equipment is dressed.

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Mythic Gear Upgrade Costs

723653065_mythicgearupgradecosts.png.42634fc7bdfb2bb5da630f374bc666ed.png

1 hour ago, Master-17 said:

There's an error here: Mythic equipment cost 8 material

44 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

I haven't and won't try destroying a mythic gear piece anytime soon, but... I think how many "material points" they give if you burn them for fuel to upgrade another one depends on the item's level.

2022-12-02_21-47-59.png.b9a206a9e1d29b3d0b5ee828f324b4d5.png

Edited by Ravi-Sama
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