New Feature: The Labyrinth - Started December 6th 2023 at live

[EpicBacon]

1 hour ago, Horsting said:

Where is the 80,218 coming from? The 63,765.201... damage is due to GS4? And 62,259 is the original AP? Note that GS4 applies to the very first round as well, so it needs to be subtracted from the first AP shown for the girl.

This is from the Rabbi critical hit I had in my post from yesterday:
The 80.218 is the damage after subtracted from enemy defence and doubled, but before critical damage is added

Yeah I should have added all the numbers in the primary post, I forgot you can't see the actual damage numbers due to to GS4 adding damage that is not counted at all. 

Here is the breakdown:

Rabbi Actual Damage:
56.559+(56.599*0.05)+(56.599*0.05)=62.259.   
Subtract enemy defence
(62.259-22150)*2= 80.218
Add the 80% critical modifier (this is what the number should have been)
80.218*2.8= 224.610

But the game seems to have done:
80.218*2.0016=160.564
You are not getting 80%, you are getting 0.16%

I just want to know what went wrong, I don't understand how someone meant to put in 80% managed to put in 0.16% instead.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hmm, you might be right, the data in the JSON might be calculated before the battle, and things are based on those numbers, while we know that GS4 is not added at all, I did a bit of digging in my JSONs, this one is from the 4th of feb; I found this:


In this one of my girls had 72.503 ego, well below 50%, she killed a girl in this attack, the Ajax puts her to 395.203 ego. She is getting the Vigorous Motivation damage buff of 6%.
If it was using her ego before the attack, she should not have gotten that one.
Damage*Vigorous Motivation
58308*1.06=61.806.48. Rounding up to 61.807
Actual Damage-enemy defence*2
(61.807-27735)*2 = 68.144

@HorstingSo let me get this completely clear; You are saying that the numbers we see in the Ajax of the girl that is attacking, even tho the numbers represent the girl status after her attack, are calculated and used in the attack this round?

Edited February 7 by EpicBacon
additional info

[Horsting]

1 hour ago, EpicBacon said:

Add the 80% critical modifier (this is what the number should have been)
80.218*2.8= 224.610

But the game seems to have done:
80.218*2.0016=160.564
You are not getting 80%, you are getting 0.16%

I am sure, if it worked, it would be e.g.

80,218*2+ceiling(80,218*0.2)+ceiling(80,218*0.2)+ceiling(80,218*0.4)

hence again each individual relic bonus rounded up. But this won't bring you to 160,564 of course, but just make a difference of max as many points as individual bonuses, i.e. a max diff of 3 here.

As other total damage calculations were correct, also crit ones, this really seems to becoming from the crit damage bonus. But even if one part was a decimal placement mistake, doubling a percentage does not make any sense either only because the absolute damage values are doubled. Otherwise that would effectively quadruple percentage bonuses.

It is btw also not 0.16%, because that would give you 160,565 as all values are consequently rounded up in HH. 0,159% would work, but this has even less to do with the expected 80%.

[EpicBacon]

4 minutes ago, Horsting said:

but this has even less to do with the expected 80%.

Yeah the number isent that important really, it was more like, how do you mess this up so bad,  if it was 0.08% atleast you could have explained it away with errors with decimal points.
 

20 minutes ago, Horsting said:

I am sure, if it worked, it would be e.g.

80,218*2+ceiling(80,218*0.2)+ceiling(80,218*0.2)+ceiling(80,218*0.4)

Ah I see what you mean, that is not the case in this one tho, this was a single Legendary +80% critical increase.
And I allways do each relic individual after seeing how much it can add up in the end.
 

23 minutes ago, Horsting said:

It is btw also not 0.16%, because that would give you 160,565 as all values are consequently rounded up in HH. 0,159% would work, but this has even less to do with the expected 80%.

A lot of times when I check percentages, from KK, its never a round number, if its 1%, it allways seems to be 0.999999.
I don't know, after looking at weird damage numbers for an extended period of time I just go; Smeg it, I don't care anymore. It's close enough.

What i find curious is that once I got a global crit increase relic, the target relic was actually working.
So I guess the damage calculation on the global ones are actually correct, It just never add the damage in, while the target one has the damage added, just using a completely wrong damage formula. So when they are put together the target one gets the damage calculation from the global, and is able to do the damage. That would also explain why the global one gives no extra damage.

All I know is that "critical damage increase" relics is much less a priority then before. I'll see if I can double check it next laby cycle, If I can, or someone else reports the same, then I'll add them to the bugged relic list.

[EpicBacon]

I guess we're doing Berserk today then...


Edit:
First fight in and something is already different, attack is no longer increased in the Ajax by GS4, Stayed the same for Sake the entire fight, compared to all the other runs where it increases by 1% each round.


I also grabbed a Vigorous Motivation relic as my 2nd option, it was a mythic 10%, so I kind of didn't have a choice, but this is going to mess up my damages, and probably make it impossible to get any reliable damage numbers on Berserk. I did one battle with berserk alone, I'll see what I can drag out of the data for that one.

Edited February 8 by EpicBacon

[madahmed]

I dont know if this had been discovered before but i somehow found how curse relic works.

in my todays comix harem run, after i defeated the first opponent , i chose curse relic

 

The good news is that it works. The bad news is it is penalizing rather than giving more advantage.

we all know how damage is calculated : 

Damage = (attacker attack - opponent defence) *2

but with curse relic , there will be no more *2

Damage = (attack - defence ) + ( % of curse)

41974= (51435-11076)* 1.04

I beat the opponent girl in 3 rounds. and i have the same result in those rounds. no more *2.

while against the other girls , the damage formula works nomally.

Tommorow ,I will continue the run and i will give an update if i can get another curse relic.

@EpicBacon I started recording the data of the occurrence of the stun skill for my M6 girl from the beginning of the month and i will give you an update about that at the end of the month. 

 

[Der DinX]

Ouch!
Not that I pay much attention on difficultys, but somehow I've got the impression, this looks rather hard.
Even foor a third floor; or does it always look like this, and I just don't care?

I mean ok, when I follow the bags, it's just two ore three orange fights, but this looks very hard, having them all together concentrated on one spot.

[EpicBacon]

32 minutes ago, madahmed said:

I dont know if this had been discovered before but i somehow found how curse relic works.

Well... the name checks out... 

32 minutes ago, madahmed said:

41974= (51435-11076)* 1.04

Yeah the math checks out, smegging hell, does anything work around here?
Screenshot a couple more of these and if the numbers check out, yeah then we have another broken relic on our hands.

The next thing would be to see if it only affects opponent girls, or if it works like the "protective assist" and can hit any girl on the battlefield, If you find out anything there, please let us know.

Thanks for your hard work.

 

30 minutes ago, Der DinX said:

Ouch!
Not that I pay much attention on difficultys, but somehow I've got the impression, this looks rather hard.
Even foor a third floor; or does it always look like this, and I just don't care?

I mean ok, when I follow the bags, it's just two ore three orange fights, but this looks very hard, having them all together concentrated on one spot.

This seems fine, I think the most Hard (red) fights I've been able to do in floor3 is 5. You also have 5, so its the same number, they are just frontloading the hard fights in your case, which you could say in harder, as you'll have less relics for these fights, compared to if they were at the back of the labyrinth.

[madahmed]

il y a 2 minutes, EpicBacon a dit :

Well... the name checks out... 

Yeah the math checks out, smegging hell, does anything work around here?
Screenshot a couple more of these and if the numbers check out, yeah then we have another broken relic on our hands.

The next thing would be to see if it only affects opponent girls, or if it works like the "protective assist" and can hit any girl on the battlefield, If you find out anything there, please let us know.

Thanks for your hard work.

Too bad i closed the Json viewer without taking more screenshot but 

with my example i checked the 3 rounds against the cursed girl and got the same result.

Tommorow after reset , i will finish my run and i will collect more data about that.

[EpicBacon]

12 hours ago, madahmed said:

Too bad i closed the Json viewer without taking more screenshot but 

with my example i checked the 3 rounds against the cursed girl and got the same result.

Tommorow after reset , i will finish my run and i will collect more data about that.

Gotcha, I usually put the responce in notepad++ and save the Json.
Tomorrow, if you remember, can you check on a girl with GS4 skill, if the damage number is increased in the responce? It has done so every other time I've checked, but today the Attack value stayed the same during the entire fight.

 

@Horsting I sent you a discord friend request, let me know if I got the correct person.
I also sent one to @DvDivXXX, it sounded like he might have your discord, incase I found the wrong horsting

 

Small Update on my current finding on damage in the labyrinth before I head to bed.

GS4 Skill is no longer added to damage number in the Ajax response.

"Vigorous Motivation" damage is now calculated and incorporated into the base damage modifier, and is no longer a hidden value.

"Vigorous Motivation" and "Berserk" does nothing on their own. They work as a catalyst, If you have no other sources of increased damage, the relics will not do anything. I had several battles where I did base damage the entire fight. It was only when I obtained an "impactful" relic for Sake that she received extra damage from VM.

This is girl dependent; since I only have a damage relic for Sake, she is the only girl in my team who are benefiting from VM. All other girls are doing base damage.

I cannot say anything about VM and how it works regards to the 50% ego clause, due to Sake staying above 50% ego the entire time. I will try to get some different elemental damage relics so I can test both "Berserk and "VM" separately, without them interfering with each other.

Edited February 8 by EpicBacon

[Horsting]

16 hours ago, EpicBacon said:

@Horsting I sent you a discord friend request, let me know if I got the correct person.

I don't see something there. ID is "hh_horsting". However, I am not active on Discord anyway, unless I am looking for something particular.

16 hours ago, EpicBacon said:

GS4 Skill is no longer added to damage number in the Ajax response.

Interesting. At least the data is now consistent. A little sad as it would be nice to have all girl skill being effective in as many game modes as possible, IMO. But better no effect than buggy or inconsistent data.

16 hours ago, EpicBacon said:

"Vigorous Motivation" damage is now calculated and incorporated into the base damage modifier, and is no longer a hidden value.

"Vigorous Motivation" and "Berserk" does nothing on their own. They work as a catalyst, If you have no other sources of increased damage, the relics will not do anything. I had several battles where I did base damage the entire fight. It was only when I obtained an "impactful" relic for Sake that she received extra damage from VM.

This is girl dependent; since I only have a damage relic for Sake, she is the only girl in my team who are benefiting from VM. All other girls are doing base damage.

I said it, this code is so broken, I am taking bets about whether this will ever fully work as expected or not, and I bet against it 😂.

17 hours ago, madahmed said:

41974= (51435-11076)* 1.04

I beat the opponent girl in 3 rounds. and i have the same result in those rounds. no more *2.

while against the other girls , the damage formula works nomally.

A perfect prove for this: I said at the beginning that it looks like pretty dumb quick patch to just add a *2 to the final damage formula, being confusing and error-prone, instead of doing it properly and doubling AP and defence granted by KH and HK CH. However, this relic is on the blacklist anyway, as it likely can curse your own girls as well, like the assistant relic can bless the opponent. And even if it worked as intended, it is very weak compared to damage buff relics.

Edited February 9 by Horsting

[EpicBacon]

2 hours ago, Horsting said:

I don't see something there. ID is "hh_horsting". However, I am not active on Discord anyway, unless I am looking for something particular.

Ah yes, I had the wrong one, I sent a new one to the correct one, my preliminary test got me some weird damage numbers again, I was going to run them by you, but we can do it on the forum instead, no problem.

2 hours ago, Horsting said:

I said it, this code is so broken, I am taking bets about whether this will ever fully work as expected or not, and I bet against it 😂.

The only reason i found this out was because I got the "Vigorous Motivation" first, all other times I've gotten damage first, and "Vigorous Motivation" afterwards.

2 hours ago, Horsting said:

A perfect prove for this: I said at the beginning that it looks like pretty dumb quick patch to just add a *2 to the final damage formula, being confusing and error-prone, instead of doing it properly and doubling AP and defence granted by KH and HK CH. However, this relic is on the blacklist anyway, as it likely can curse your own girls as well, like the assistant relic can bless the opponent. And even if it worked as intended, it is very weak compared to damage buff relics.

If this works as the "protection assist" relic, meaning it can hit any girls, AND you get it to hit your own frontline, This is actually a really defensive relic, Much Much better then "Protective Bubble"

 

 

Yikes, no damage labyrinth sucks, this is against the first boss  Quite a beefy first boss tho, Total Power of 7.332.789, that is stronger then the 2nd boss from last cycle, that one had a power of 7.310.149. If it was not for my midline being all shield girls, I might actually have lost this battle, or atleast lost one or two more girls.
Kyoko is not pulling her weight this run, 4 chances to stun in this boss battle, ignored all of them.

Edit:
only 2 of 3 shield girls were able to cast shields, the 3rd one got taken out before her skill got ready.

Edited February 9 by EpicBacon

[jelom]

@Horsting No, the code is not broken, you are using the wrong maths.

The code follows the Haremverse algebra and physics. We have to adapt to them doing bizarre things. 

[Der DinX]

3 hours ago, jelom said:

We have to adapt to them doing bizarre things.

Just think what you would expect, and do quite the opposite; then add something unexpected and flavor that with a hint of rather stupid.

That should do the trick. 😁

[EpicBacon]

Some hard fights this time around, almost lost my entire midline on the 2nd boss, and a total defeat on the last boss.

[EpicBacon]

Okay, quite a bit to go over here today, lets start with the easy ones.

Critical Thinking;
The all girl version of this relic does nothing, I've had this relic in two consecutive runs now, and all critical hits I've looked at have had the base 2x damage. The target "critical thinking" is not much better, I had a +80% critical damage relic the laby cycle before this one, and it gave me less then 1% more damage, In the current state, avoid all "Critical Thinking" relics.


Berserk:
Berserk works kind of the same way as "Vigorous Motivation" I will get back to that one later. Berserk gives increased damage when girls go under 50% ego. This seems to work, I have not been able to do extensive testing on this relic due to girls under 50% hp having some difficulties staying alive.

Here is Titania, doing 3 attacks, the one when she was at 85.9% hp she used "Vigorous Motivation" and she switched to "Berserk" for the remaining two attacks when her ego dropped below 50%

Vigorous Motivation:
So first off, neither VM or Berserk does anything on their own, they need other damage relics to give increased damage. But when you do get other relics to use with them, these are really strong and give you a lot of damage.

Let me breakdown Sake's damage to explain how this works.
Sake's base damage is 65.069, She is buffed by one 12% impactful relic.

(Base dmg * impactful relic) rounding up
65.069*1.12=72.878. 
(modified damage * Vigorous  Motivation) rounding up
72.878*1.10= 80.166 

Now it gets interesting.

This is Sake's damage over a 7 round battle, she did a green battle by herself. As you can see her damage just keeps increasing round by round, the formula for this is as follows.
BaseDamage * Damage Relic  *Bulbskill  /10

I have 12% damage, and 1% from GS4 skill, resulting in this:

BaseDamage * Damage Relic(12%)  *Bulbskill (1%) /10
(65.069*1.12)= (72.878*1.01) = (73.607/10) = 7.361

And that is not all, the increased damage is also increased each round by your Girl Skill 4 bulb skill, in my example here, this is a mythic girl, so she gets a 1% increase per round.

So long story short, "Vigorous Motivation" gives you a damage buff each round, that itself is buffed by your GS4. Berserk works the same way, is just less optimal due to needing girls at half ego.

Thanks a lot to @Horsting for going over the data with me, providing invaluable explanation and making me understand what I am really looking at and how to use said information.
Another big thanks to @-MM- for figuring out the damage increase formula, much appreciated, I would never have been able to figure out what was going on with that one.

Edit: I had mistakenly claimed that Berserk uses a different damage formula then VM, this is not correct, they are using the same formula, I've changed this to reflect reality, thanks to @Horstingfor pointing this out.

Edited February 10 by EpicBacon

[zoopokemon]

Added another addition to the labyrinth module to actually add in some of the relic stats into the tooltips and they'll get factored into the script's team filter module. This should make picking the best girls much easier.

Relics included into the stats are the girl and team versions of Impactful, Egoist, Sweet Harmony, and Defender of the Haremverse and all the elemental power relics. None of these relics should be bugged last I checked.

This will be the last labyrinth feature I add to the script for now, though I do want to eventually show the battle end state on skip, but there are still issues since the harem update and I want to update the Improved Waifu module first.

[430i]

41 minutes ago, zoopokemon said:

This will be the last labyrinth feature I add to the script for now

Any chance adding the number of relevant girls of each element when picking an element-based relic? I never pay attention how many girls of each element I have and dont know how impactful picking a certain relic would be.

[madahmed]

@EpicBacon I needed to rush the laby before reset so i could not really test the GS4 skills

But I had different results . i had no incease in damage with GS4 Girls. my data is before i get a damage relic though.

and concerning the curse relic .it is not cumulative.

i got a 10% curse relic in addition to my previous 4%

and when calculating the damage , it adds only the biggest one not both. 

[Marc121212]

Hi guys, i like the complexity of data that you all are doing, but i'm lack of time to read the pages, but theres a/an Relic that is better to avoid?

[bolitho76]

Read here:

 

[Horsting]

To add to this, @EpicBacon and me were reviewing some data, and with the help of @-MM- magically finding the right formula for some number increase pattern, we found some interesting facts about the "Vigorous Motivation" and "Berserk" relics:

• The X% damage bonus granted by those relics, is not granted only once, but stacks every round. I.e. if it has +10% damage on the paper, and your girl's initial AP is 50k, her AP raises by 5k every round. Intended or not, this makes the "Vigorous Motivation" (VM) relic very strong.
• Additionally, while the GS4 damage increase bonus, which was never respected, has been consequently removed completely form the AJAX response, it does weirdly increase the VM/Berserk AP bonus, and ONLY that. Hence an M6 girl with maxed GS4 bonus (+1% each round), increases the 5k AP bonus from above example every round (including the first) by 1%. I.e. on first round, it will be +5000*1.01=5050 AP, on second round +5050*1.01=5101 AP (rounded up) etc. The bonus is rather small, and it looks like a leftover from the previously at least in the AJAX response shown (but not respected) AP increase by GS4, being still effective for the bonus of those two relics, most likely as a result of horribly unmanageable spaghetti code.
• Another weird observation is that, if the opponent girl has a shield (not defence, but the shield granted by blue/sensual girls' GS5 (Laby) skill), a part of the damage bonus from VM/Berserk is not applied. I tried to find a formula about how much of the bonus is missing, but could not find one. It is at least close to the ration between damage reduced by regular defence and damage eaten by the shield. E.g. it is close to 50% (like ~2500 AP in above example) if the damage is halved by the opponent girl's defence, and the other half is eaten by the shield. But if it really has something to do with it, the question is which AP/damage applies: The damage form the prior round, the damage your girl would have had if there was not shield, an incremental loop result of the actual damage she does, which is a result of the AP bonus reduction, hence would require an incremental loop to know/narrow down. None did really fit, but it was in this area at least.
• And another important fact: VM/Berserk do only apply if the girl benefits from any other AP relic already, else it does nothing. Not a big issue, since one almost always gets any damage relic quickly, but still. @EpicBacon please verify that this was still true for your last tests.

All in all these behave extremely weird, not as documented, complex/complicated, and I am quite sure not as intended, but as a result of messy broken code (ah, not "broken", thanks @jelom, it just follows KK universe fundamental physics). I do not believe this can ever behave in a clean, logic and consistent way, without a complete rewrite from scratch, but it would be still good to report to KK, so they know what their coders are producing and/or have to deal with. So if any mod could forward this to the closed mods Discord channel, that would hopefully not hurt.

Edited February 10 by Horsting

[madahmed]

il y a 20 minutes, Horsting a dit :

 

• And another important fact: VM/Berserk do only apply if the girl benefits from any other AP relic already, else it does nothing. Not a big issue, since one almost always gets any damage relic quickly, but still. @EpicBacon please verify that this was still true for your last tests.

 

About Berserk. Does the girl need always to be under 50% to benefit from the increased bonus each round?

[EpicBacon]

6 hours ago, Horsting said:

• And another important fact: VM/Berserk do only apply if the girl benefits from any other AP relic already, else it does nothing. Not a big issue, since one almost always gets any damage relic quickly, but still. @EpicBacon please verify that this was still true for your last tests.

I have not yet done today's run, but the first two relics I picked up last run was a 3% "berserk" followed by a 10% "Vigorous Motivation" I did not get any other damage sources until 1 or 2 fights from the 1st boss. I looked at the Ajax from two or three of these fights with no additional damage, and all girls did their base damage the entire time.

Also, the first damage relic I found was for Sake only, in the battle after obtaining this relic, Sake was the only one who did increased damage, all other girls was doing their base damage.

6 hours ago, madahmed said:

About Berserk. Does the girl need always to be under 50% to benefit from the increased bonus each round?

It is a bit difficult for me to answer this one because I had both "Vigorous Motivation" and "Berserk" in the same run. What I can say is that my girl used "Vigorous Motivation" when her ego was above 50%, and switched to "Berserk" when she got under 50% I did not think about putting an already damaged girl in the midline or backline to observe her damage over time, so my "Berserk" data is limited. But the 50% clause seems to work, my girl used "Berserk" at 48% ego remaining.

I was also lacking in damage modifiers, it was only towards the end of the run where I was able to grab my only global damage increase, an "impactful" relic for 5% all girls. Because of this, even if I wanted to put a damaged girl in the backline, the girl would have to be for an element I already had an "elemental power" relic for. Another issue here is that I would have to take out my Healing girl from the party, thus putting more girls in danger due to them not getting healing.

You would want VM over Berserk if you can tho, Its just a lot easier to stay at full ego then half ego.
"Berserk" does not interact well with healing relics, if you have "rejuvenation" relic that restores a % of the missing ego before you act, "ego rebound" where you gain ego based on your damage or "defeat medication" where you heal to full on defeating an opponent girl. All of these relics could put you above 50% ego, and thus negating the damage buff.

Edited February 10 by EpicBacon

[EpicBacon]

Really? You are going to give me berserk as first option again? 

Edit: Please just let me have a normal run for once, you are killing me.

Edited February 10 by EpicBacon

[Horsting]

2 hours ago, EpicBacon said:

VM takes all the damage relics into consideration, while Berserk only multiplies the base damage with the berserk %.

Is that so? I remember and rechecked, that it did take into account the two AP relics with +9% together, i.e. that VM and berserk behave the same in this regards? But regardless, of course usually your DDs stay at 100%, or at least the longest time of hard battles, so berserk has usually only very little time/rounds to stack up, and most of the battles does nothing at all. So VM is clearly far superior. I'd rate berserk lower than any other AP/damage relic (aside of crit damage, which seems to not work at all), despite its stacking behaviour.

Indeed an interesting question whether the AP bonus remains after the ego falls below/raises above 50%, just does not raise further, or whether it falls back to base AP the next round. And whether this is the same when you have both relics, VM and berserk.

Btw, I tend to use the working AP (attack power) instead of damage, as for me the damage is the final outcome, i.e. that what is called "total damage" in the AJAX. I.e. attacker has AP, defender has defence, then:

damage = ( attack power - defence ) * 2

Usually this wording is also used in the game, just the AJAX response and the relics for whatever reason use "damage", inconsistently.

Edited February 10 by Horsting