Darkyz_ Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 il y a une heure, EpicBacon a dit : Defeat Medication Heals your girl to full instead of the % shown on the relic. This makes this relic really strong, currently best heal option. Harmony in the middle Harmony does not add to your speed. Unknown if harmony does anything else; we only know that it does not increase your speed, as it is supposed to. Thank for that summary but... Why report the "Defeat Medication" to be fixed at all ? I really dont understand some people's need to nerf themselves voluntarily by always wanting the player-oriented bugs to be fixed, educated people know it works that way so they chase the relic, "uneducated" people profit from the effect without knowing but in both cases, if Kinkoid would fix it, the balance will change entirely and we would have a worse time of it, do we want to suffer in the sense of twisted justice ? For the second one, this may be something I missed somewhere, please bear with me if it is, but... where is it written that harmony is supposed to increase speed ? Those are two separate stats on the girl's summary, what makes people think they're tied together at all ? 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicBacon Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 7 minutes ago, Darkyz_ said: Thank for that summary but... Why report the "Defeat Medication" to be fixed at all ? I really dont understand some people's need to nerf themselves voluntarily by always wanting the player-oriented bugs to be fixed, educated people know it works that way so they chase the relic, "uneducated" people profit from the effect without knowing but in both cases, if Kinkoid would fix it, the balance will change entirely and we would have a worse time of it, do we want to suffer in the sense of twisted justice ? For the second one, this may be something I missed somewhere, please bear with me if it is, but... where is it written that harmony is supposed to increase speed ? Those are two separate stats on the girl's summary, what makes people think they're tied together at all ? Well, it is a bug, so that is why I listed it, It's also one of the ones that were figured out really early on, and If KK paid any attention, surely they would know about it. I do see your point tho, it does feel like we've been delt a lot of bad hands lately, so having bugs go in our favor for once would be nice. Ultimately its a bug, and that's why I put it on the list. For your second question, info about labyrinth has harmony listed as giving speed, screenshot attached. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkyz_ Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 OK, I can't really elaborate much further on the need for "good bugs" to be reported after "bad bugs" are fixed, balance is a tricky thing that Kinkoid has a complicated history with, I'm convinced we should do everything in our power to prioritize ourselves when we can, instead of complaining after the fact... For Harmony, ok, I see the confusion, it's not a Relic bug, there's one word missing in the explanation, you can see the obvious state of it, with the stat formulas zoo derived : Speed = CEIL(0.2*Girls's KH + Player's Harmony) 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator bolitho76 Posted January 7 Moderator Share Posted January 7 12 minutes ago, Darkyz_ said: balance is a tricky thing that Kinkoid has a complicated history with You can say that again and again and again.... It's a really nice wording for the balancing abilitys from KK side (Is it ok to call it ability?) /sarcasm out 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkyz_ Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 Il y a 2 heures, EpicBacon a dit : Here are the current relics that as of now we have found bugs with and are somewhat sure how they are bugged: Once again, thanks for the summary and thanks to all the people that are hunting bugs everywhere. I reported on Kinkoid's internal tech form the following bugs as independant reports : Protective Bubble Protection Assist (with a word on needing Curse check for the same problem) Harmony in the middle / Sweet Harmony (need to rewrite rules so they match stat formulas more clearly) Finish Move Berserk and Double Attack are balance issues, not bugs, so for me, they're less priority, lots of things will change with the class introduction, heavy balance dicussions should happen then and the Defeat Medication "problem" can be adressed then. Hope that helps 🤞 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicBacon Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 (edited) 5 hours ago, Darkyz_ said: Harmony in the middle / Sweet Harmony (need to rewrite rules so they match stat formulas more clearly) It would be nice if they would tell us exactly what harmony does I think it might add to your girls crit ratio, as it does in other modes, but guessing what relics do is not ideal, and I have not noticed any significant critical increase with harmony. Edit: Also on that screen it should be noted that it says defence come from hardcore, this is wrong, charm gives defence, and it says that mana and mana regeneration is based on charm, that again is wrong, its based on know-how. So that whole page needs an update when they fix the base stats. Edit2: Maybe it wasnt clear from my post; my wording could have been better, but I am not here to make sure people are having a miserable time in the labyrinth. I love the labyrinth, its the most fun I've had in the game in years, and that is why I want the bugs and all the problems fixed, any why I listed all the bugs, good and bad. Releasing new difficulties are nice, but with the state some of the relics are in right now, if they base the difficulty of the labyrinth with the assumption those relics work, the harder modes are going to be a pain to complete. And that is why I think fixing the bugs should come before new difficulties. Hope this clears up any misunderstands that might have come from my wording in my post. Edited January 8 by EpicBacon additional info 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicBacon Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 5 hours ago, bolitho76 said: You can say that again and again and again.... It's a really nice wording for the balancing abilitys from KK side (Is it ok to call it ability?) /sarcasm out If it was a relic instead of an ability, it would explain a lot 😜 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsting Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 @Darkyz_ Has the major issue with the wrong stats formulas regarding defence, mana and mana regeneration, as EpicBeacon mentioned in his edits, already been reported in your closed mods channel? IMO this is the most critical Laby bug, as it breaks those tank/mage/dd roles and the info page about the stats all together, and makes the Laby much more difficult. It was reported over and over here on the forum, at least two times on Discord bug reports channel and I reported it as well to ingame support. It should be totally trivial to fix, just swapping the stats in 3 internal formulas with the intended ones. 1 hour ago, EpicBacon said: I am not here to make sure people are having a miserable time in the labyrinth. The long list of bugs assures that I have a miserable time in the Laby, and that I (and you) wasted days for testing and reporting them (already on test server) without anything happening in over a month. So anything which helps to finally get KKs (serious/prioritised!) attention about them, is good, even important! And maybe one day KK realises and fixes their miserable/dysfunctional development/testing/review/bugfix schedules, to prevent us from having a miserable experience with potentially good new features over and over and over again. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicBacon Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 4 minutes ago, Horsting said: @Darkyz_ Has the major issue with the wrong stats formulas regarding defence, mana and mana regeneration, as EpicBeacon mentioned in his edits, already been reported in your closed mods channel? IMO this is the most critical Laby bug, as it breaks those tank/mage/dd roles and the info page about the stats all together, and makes the Laby much more difficult. It was reported over and over here on the forum, at least two times on Discord bug reports channel and I reported it as well to ingame support. It should be totally trivial to fix, just swapping the stats in 3 internal formulas with the intended ones. The long list of bugs assures that I have a miserable time in the Laby, and that I (and you) wasted days for testing and reporting them (already on test server) without anything happening in over a month. So anything which helps to finally get KKs (serious/prioritised!) attention about them, is good, even important! And maybe one day KK realises and fixes their miserable/dysfunctional development/testing/review/bugfix schedules, to prevent us from having a miserable experience with potentially good new features over and over and over again. There are a simple solution to all of this. 1 - If KK does not want feeback, or simply do not care, or don't plan on using said feedback, just tell us. That way we can all stop wasting out time on things they don't bother reading anyways. 2 - If KK wants out feedback; tell us where to direct it. Have one specific channel/discord/thread/topic/liason that the people who are working on the game has access to and or are in contact with. Instead of the situation that we are in right now where unless you know someone who knows someone, none of the information seems to get where it needs to be. 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoopokemon Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 1 hour ago, Horsting said: Has the major issue with the wrong stats formulas regarding defence, mana and mana regeneration, as EpicBeacon mentioned in his edits, already been reported in your closed mods channel? IMO this is the most critical Laby bug, as it breaks those tank/mage/dd roles and the info page about the stats all together, and makes the Laby much more difficult. I recently brought this up with Rosso himself, and he said it will be addressed. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsting Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 So the only working procedure, when we have serious validated bugs, is to ping one of you mods to forward it to Rosso and/or the mods Discord chat? It feels like a misuse of your time/tasks, given that there are public channels. But if those are ignored, unless one of you by chance catches and forwards one of the relevant reports, I see no other way. I mean it can be also an intended procedure, to have mods not only as "moderators", but also for filtering and forwarding bug reports from forum and Discord. But a lot more mods would be required, or ones which can spend more time/get more compensation, to cover this additional tasks properly, especially on Discord (which to me feels like a lot more difficult to discuss and extract relevant bug reports from). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator bolitho76 Posted January 8 Moderator Share Posted January 8 Today Sandman made some communication at Discord. For Labyrinth: 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumufu Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Does anyone have a list of which relics are broken and to be avoided? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator DvDivXXX Posted January 12 Moderator Share Posted January 12 8 minutes ago, mumufu said: Does anyone have a list of which relics are broken and to be avoided? Read EpicBacon's posts in this very thread (and also the main one, but I know it's a lot more to sift through). He made several, the most up to date one just on the previous page IIRC. The super TL;DR version would be: Never pick anything that says "random girl" Always pick one Defeat Medication (but only one) Always pick any and all "Above 50%" you can get (they stack multiplicatively) Pick one high-rarity Finish Move if you can (but only one) Attack > (frontline) Defense > HP > Harmony and Global > _ Line > _ Element > specific girl 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsting Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 2 hours ago, DvDivXXX said: Global > _ Line > _ Element > specific girl Unless you have >=5 strong DD/KH girls of a certain element to fill your back and middle line with. Then the per-element attack bonus is quite powerful. I have 6 strong doms of that kind maxed, soon a 2nd M6, so I tend to use 5 dom KH girls as DDs. To me it seems like you get per-element relics more often for those you have (often) in the team, so I get good dom DD bonus relics quite often. I did no statistics about this, but does someone else have the impression that per-element relics drop more often for elements you have often in your team? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jelom Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 51 minutes ago, Horsting said: I did no statistics about this, but does someone else have the impression that per-element relics drop more often for elements you have often in your team? I think it is similar to specific girl relics, that you are always offered a relic for one of the girls in your team, even if the girl is tired at the end of that battle, and probably the element relics are offered for elements you have in your team, so my guess is that if you lack some elements in your current lab team then you are not offered relics for them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsting Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 1 minute ago, jelom said: so my guess is that if you lack some elements in your current lab team then you are not offered relics for them. That one definitely not. I do regularly get relics for elements which are not present in my team, but less often. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator DvDivXXX Posted January 13 Moderator Share Posted January 13 3 hours ago, Horsting said: Unless Of course, I was just writing all-purpose very broad guidelines for people who make do with cliff notes to use in any scenario (including likely many who use autoselect). But yeah, for those of us paying attention and min-maxing our runs, of course specific color becomes great if you have a full (DPS) team of that color, 10% Defense to the front line is better than 6% global Defense, 6% Attack to the backline is better than 3% global Attack, and so on. 3 hours ago, Horsting said: I did no statistics about this, but does someone else have the impression that per-element relics drop more often for elements you have often in your team? 2 hours ago, jelom said: probably the element relics are offered for elements you have in your team, so my guess is that if you lack some elements in your current lab team then you are not offered relics for them. Definitely not. By FAR the most frequent color I've been offered relics for pretty much throughout my runs, but especially the last couple runs has consistently been Yellow, followed by Green a fair bit less often, then a big gap, and then I'd say the other six colors all show up about as infrequently. I typically NEVER have a single girl with Yellow as her element in my main active team, and only a single one with Green. My teams typically cover three colors: White, Dark, and Green. The two cannon fodders on the front line may vary, and since Yellow is (barely) blessed this week on dot com, I've used a couple of Yellow sacrifices a few times, but most weeks I'll have stronger CH options to go through with Green, White, Orange and Blue before I'm offered my weaker options from other colors. If how often you're offered a relic for a given color was linked to how much you use that color, I would be offered Dark and White most of the time. And if not having any girl of a certain color in your selection prevented you from getting offered relics for that color, I would almost never be offered Yellow relics. It's interesting and I'll do a test tomorrow, though. I'll purposely exclude one or more color(s) from my selection of 70 girls, and see if I still get offered relics for a color I literally can't use or not. I'll pick Yellow just on the off chance that it actually works. I'm tired of being offered Yellow relics all the time! ^^ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator DvDivXXX Posted January 13 Moderator Share Posted January 13 16 hours ago, DvDivXXX said: I'll do a test tomorrow, though. I'll purposely exclude one or more color(s) from my selection of 70 girls, and see if I still get offered relics for a color I literally can't use or not. Done and I'm sorry to report that's a big fat nope, folks. This seems to be completely random. I've excluded 4 colors from my selection of 70 girls for this run: Red, Orange, Yellow and Purple: And yet... Well, at least I was only offered Yellow once. ^^ Purple was all the rage today. But yeah, this should prove beyond reasonable doubt that the selection of Color Relics is completely random, and has nothing to do with what colors you're using or even what colors you have available in your entire Squad of 70. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsting Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 (edited) Here is another example why I have the impression that I get preferred dominatrix power when having a full dominatrix DD team: 2 or 3 times I got other per-element relics offered, but dom by far the most, and this is the case in most of my runs. However, based on your on your results, I seem to be just lucky. Also I wouldn't put it past KK implementing such fine grained chance modification, considering that otherwise relics drop totally random and pretty unreasonable in some cases (buffs for tired girls, duck master and life steal for mid- and back line). Edited January 15 by Horsting 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicBacon Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 1 hour ago, Horsting said: Here is another example why I have the impression that I get preferred dominatrix power when having a full dominatrix DD team: 2 or 3 times I got other per-element relics offered, but dom by far the most, and this is the case in most of my runs. However, based on your on your results, I seem to be just lucky. Also I wouldn't put it past KK implementing such fine grained chance modification, considering that otherwise relics drop totally random and pretty unreasonable in some cases (buffs for tired girls, duck master and life steal for mid- and back line). I also seems to get mostly Dominatrix, but it could just be me not even registrering other damage relics when looking at relics. Actually since I've started doing testing on the stun skill, I am not really running damage at all, I have Sake (healing) and Kyoko (stun) in the backline, then 3 tanks in the midline, and 2 charm up in the frontline, this is to make sure that battles go for as long as possible, and I get more chances of casting stun. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator DvDivXXX Posted January 15 Moderator Share Posted January 15 (edited) Yeah, random is random is random. I didn't document it or take any screenshots, but in today's run with exactly the same (base) team as in my screenshots from the previous one, I got offered 4 or 5 White relics this time. I took them all and eventually just swapped out my Dark DPS for White ones (along with putting MD Mala in the midline and using a revolving door or cannon fodder for the front line). @Horsting There is a very slim chance that your being more consistently lucky with color relics might have to do with your pre-BoD player level, maybe... But I'd be surprised if they thought of implementing something as intricate for one of the relic types when almost everything else is just random, and other areas of the feature aren't polished or even working properly yet. Plus, it would be pretty unfair and dumb to give lower-level players a big boost with matching color relics and post-BoD accounts the random end of the stick, when the difficulty is supposed to be aligned with your player level anyway. Edited January 15 by DvDivXXX updated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmerB Posted January 20 Author Share Posted January 20 It's a bit obscure question, but there are savvy people here, so maybe you'll know: Is the power of the girl at the Labyrinth fixed from the initial selection (about the same as in the PoP), or does the power of the girl rises during a Labyrinth run, if you upgrade / level up the girls during that run? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsting Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 23 hours ago, OmerB said: Is the power of the girl at the Labyrinth fixed from the initial selection (about the same as in the PoP), or does the power of the girl rises during a Labyrinth run, if you upgrade / level up the girls during that run? It raises when you level/upgrade/skill the girl. Well I am only 100% sure about the skills, since I did give some girls GS5 during one run, and they were able to use it immediately. But there is really no reason or even technical possibility that this applies for skills only, but not for all other stats. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telum Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 When I'm in this dilemma, I always choose the easiest route (6.33M, in this case), thinking that the damage my girls sustain will be less and the relics the same. Is my thought correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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