saberbholt Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 11 minutes ago, Chthugha said: I can't really sympathize with people buying all girls from pachinko, to be honest. Sucks for them, but it's hardly a good representative for the whole community. Those girls out of the pachinko is the best for almost everyone else. 7 minutes ago, ScrubNoob said: I have to agree not putting them in the pachinko is generally for the best. It seems to me that outrage is mainly because some people were planning on getting the new girls this way rather than getting them from the boss. Ironically making it the one time those players wanted the old way to continue. Did you see that the forum burned even when the Bosses of old were under the cost of energy in history and the XP was increased? No, there were comments but nothing so strong as this patch or the Pachinko Event. The players who emptied their Pachinko did so at a cost that, sincerely, neither I nor the majority have done, but I can not think that it is fair for them when the change is only oriented to an economic issue with them. I repeat, they have to do it on all and not only those 3 and there would not have been as many complaints as there were not the energy in old Bosses and since they are points of view based on the individual's values, I will not repeat what I consider an action moved only by the desire to profit and not really by what we have all wanted (if I also agree that none of this Pachinko), but not so, but all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chthugha Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Just now, saberbholt said: Did you see that the forum burned even when the Bosses of old were under the cost of energy in history and the XP was increased? No, there were comments but nothing so strong as this patch or the Pachinko Event. The players who emptied their Pachinko did so at a cost that, sincerely, neither I nor the majority have done, but I can not think that it is fair for them when the change is only oriented to an economic issue with them. I repeat, they have to do it on all and not only those 3 and there would not have been as many complaints as there were not the energy in old Bosses and since they are points of view based on the individual's values, I will not repeat what I consider an action moved only by the desire to profit and not really by what we have all wanted (if I also agree that none of this Pachinko), but not so, but all. If you are NOT in that position, then I don't see a reason why you would defend that position. Let the players who ARE in that position speak up and defend that. If they do not complain about it, then there's nothing to complain about to begin with. It seriously feels like you are just throwing a temper tantrum because of the gifts on the boss, and this is your go to argument basing it on a theory you can't even prove. You've got to remember that world 10 was launched months ago, so this has been the first time in months that they had the chance to react to not putting common girls in pachinko anymore from the next world on. It coincides with changing the performance rewards (which I agree on, is not that great of a change), but that doesn't mean this was a planned conspiracy against the whales of the game. They can perfectly get them by not being so hasty for free. It's not necessary to spend a ton of kobans to get them immediately, just adapt to the new situation, by only battling Karole when there's a boss battle contest for example. You will get those girls in due time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer_X Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 My two cents, and I apologize in advance if part of what follows is simply repeating things already written (by me or others). The main problem, as I see it, is not the missing possibility to have Karole's girls in the pachinko: as it is was said, in the past many players (especially free players like me) have complained to be unable to start to mug the Epic Pachinko because they still hadn't been able to obtain all the boss girls. Basically, the fact that Karole drops only affection items is only part of the problem. Affection items have their usefulness, but as they drop proportionally to their rarity, this makes the gain of even thousands of them (the order of quantity presumably needed to obtain Karole's girls) almost irrelevant. This added to the fact that, independently from the fact that a player decides to offer the items gained to his girls or sell them, offer or sell hundreds or thousands of items in the market takes a lot of time and clicking, a thing that in the past many players have already defined tiresome. This last thing may be bypassed if in the future the devs decide to implement a x10/x100/x500 function (or the like) without asking to pay kobans to use it. In my humble opinion, the real problem is the mix of things, i.e. the players being forced to gain hundreds of items (that in the present situation, are almost worthless at the level of the players reaching world 11) instead of an adequate sum of ymens in the effort to obtain Karole's girls, without the possibility to choose to obtain them in a different manner to avoid the reduction in the gathering of resources. This has also the added effect that the time to obtain Karole's girls, already high by itself at world 11 and increased by the heightening number of events per month, will increase because players will need to take more time to return to pound Roko Sensei to obtain more ymens, and this fact adds further to the frustration of players, a thing, as I have already stated in the past, that is never good neither for the game nor for the full community of players. The almost certain thing is that, unless someone find himself super short of affection items, the moment Karole drops his last girl, no player will spend combativity points to pound her again (except for story items and event girls, although this last one at world 11 will be a quite rare occurrence). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraumII Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 (edited) Since I'm often one of the people who provide largely negative feedback, I though I'd argue for the other side for a change. I actually don't dislike this update. I admit, at first I wasn't too happy about getting affection rewards from the new boss rather than money, but ever since I've read that the boss will have a chance to drop epic or legendary affection items past a certain level, I'm catiously optimistic. The rate of new girls and especially new epic and legendary girls released has been so high during the last year, that I can hardly image even top players have so many affection items stocked already that they wouldn't ever have bought new ones. So as long as I'm getting more or less the same value out of it, i don't really care whether I get it in money or in affection items. The deciding factor will be the relative drop rates of the different affection item tiers and correspondingly the estimated value of one fight against Karole. As for Karole's Boss girls not being available in Epic Pachinko, I can not for the life of me understand why anybody would complain about this. This has been one of the main wishes of the playerbase for years. Nobody likes paying 5400 Kobans for a Boss girl. Many players, myself included, absolutely do/did not play EP while they still had boss girls to claim. So this actually seems like a great change to me and I applaud it. Edited January 8, 2019 by BraumII 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Holt Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 6 hours ago, saberbholt said: If from now on no Boss girl ever returned to Pachinko, no one would have complained (including those who have their Pachinko empty), but not for other economic interests, which are a mockery of the idea raised by the community and its users First I have to disagree with this statement, if the Devs had come out and removed all the Boss girls from Pachinko there would have been plenty of people who would be screaming to get the Kobens they spent on wining one back. and there would be no pleasing them until they had back every last koben. Just take a look on the forums of how many times people want refunds right now. 49 minutes ago, Damoncord said: Hate to break it to you but those are the purchasing values. if you're selling them the Green lingerie only give 6951, and the purple (once leveled enough) would give 105K. The problem is getting the REALLY fucking rare drop for a purple affection item since they don't mention removing any of the crap items from her drop table. Maxed level the best items would give between 49k and 105K in a low chance with most of your drops being under 7K. I'm not willing to trade a reliable cash drop for the chance at a good one, especially knowing that during events they will add the purples to other bosses. You are missing my point I use the purchase price because that's what it would cost you to buy the item if Karol just gave you money. Karol giving out affection items is worth more because you can now get affection without spending money on it. Possibly a lot of affection, remember each point of affection whether from a common flower or an epic lingerie costs you $417. So if you want to level your new Legendary to put her in your Alpha slot or you just got your Rare Waifu and you want to see all of her H-scenes, or you are leveling your Harem to get more money every time you collect from them you have to spend money on affection items and then give them a wad of cash. This stops you having to spend anything on affection items anymore (Depending on the breakdown of the drops of course). 1 hour ago, Damoncord said: By the time you get to the new boss, Green and Grey affection items are damn near worthless and don't give decent money if you sell them. I've got a few HUNDRED in my inventory that I'm just to lazy to sell. Don't sell them, even a common flower is affection points it is worth more to hold onto it and give it to your girls. And I know I keep saying this over and over but if you are just worried about getting money Roko is your better choice even if Karol was giving money. To begin with she would be giving you $16000 less per fight it would take 1600 fights just to get her back up to Roko's level, that is ruffly 30 days of fighting her without spending Kobens. And she maxes out only 20 levels higher that is only $2000 more per fight then Roko. Saberbholt said that would take 16 months to recoup what you loose just for fighting the new boss. So what are you loosing by not fighting Karol? The three Boss girls she has? If you're not going to level them why do you care? If you are going to level them you are going to need affection items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saberbholt Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Master Holt said: First I have to disagree with this statement, if the Devs had come out and removed all the Boss girls from Pachinko there would have been plenty of people who would be screaming to get the Kobens they spent on wining one back. and there would be no pleasing them until they had back every last koben. Just take a look on the forums of how many times people want refunds right now. You are missing my point I use the purchase price because that's what it would cost you to buy the item if Karol just gave you money. Karol giving out affection items is worth more because you can now get affection without spending money on it. Possibly a lot of affection, remember each point of affection whether from a common flower or an epic lingerie costs you $417. So if you want to level your new Legendary to put her in your Alpha slot or you just got your Rare Waifu and you want to see all of her H-scenes, or you are leveling your Harem to get more money every time you collect from them you have to spend money on affection items and then give them a wad of cash. This stops you having to spend anything on affection items anymore (Depending on the breakdown of the drops of course). Don't sell them, even a common flower is affection points it is worth more to hold onto it and give it to your girls. And I know I keep saying this over and over but if you are just worried about getting money Roko is your better choice even if Karol was giving money. To begin with she would be giving you $16000 less per fight it would take 1600 fights just to get her back up to Roko's level, that is ruffly 30 days of fighting her without spending Kobens. And she maxes out only 20 levels higher that is only $2000 more per fight then Roko. Saberbholt said that would take 16 months to recoup what you loose just for fighting the new boss. So what are you loosing by not fighting Karol? The three Boss girls she has? If you're not going to level them why do you care? If you are going to level them you are going to need affection items. mmm I told you 16 months but you count the benefits of the rise, which are 1800 bouts and would translate in 1/3 of the time less, between 11 and 12 months or so, but yes I also said that the objects should be given by the first Bosses, and as I see that the design is not taken into account in future time I will tell you that with the Boss of world 12 it would be between 6 and 8 months, with the world 13 if it gives objects ( that it does not occur to me that it could give in fact for that I doubt that it was equipment for pvp) the difference would be between 3 and 4 months .... at infinitum Here you do not fight for what this boss does, here you fight to see the direction that you want the game to have and as you give, you do more and more things Edited January 9, 2019 by saberbholt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damoncord Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 30 minutes ago, Master Holt said: First I have to disagree with this statement, if the Devs had come out and removed all the Boss girls from Pachinko there would have been plenty of people who would be screaming to get the Kobens they spent on wining one back. and there would be no pleasing them until they had back every last koben. Just take a look on the forums of how many times people want refunds right now. You are missing my point I use the purchase price because that's what it would cost you to buy the item if Karol just gave you money. Karol giving out affection items is worth more because you can now get affection without spending money on it. Possibly a lot of affection, remember each point of affection whether from a common flower or an epic lingerie costs you $417. So if you want to level your new Legendary to put her in your Alpha slot or you just got your Rare Waifu and you want to see all of her H-scenes, or you are leveling your Harem to get more money every time you collect from them you have to spend money on affection items and then give them a wad of cash. This stops you having to spend anything on affection items anymore (Depending on the breakdown of the drops of course). Don't sell them, even a common flower is affection points it is worth more to hold onto it and give it to your girls. And I know I keep saying this over and over but if you are just worried about getting money Roko is your better choice even if Karol was giving money. To begin with she would be giving you $16000 less per fight it would take 1600 fights just to get her back up to Roko's level, that is ruffly 30 days of fighting her without spending Kobens. And she maxes out only 20 levels higher that is only $2000 more per fight then Roko. Saberbholt said that would take 16 months to recoup what you loose just for fighting the new boss. So what are you loosing by not fighting Karol? The three Boss girls she has? If you're not going to level them why do you care? If you are going to level them you are going to need affection items. 196 Girls in Harem, ALL 196 maxed Affection, The only ones I can get are in Epic Pachinko (2 right now), from events (3), or are on Karol (3). She is THE ONLY place I have a chance at getting a girl to drop without buying more Kobans. I've got several Hundred of each of the grey and Green gifts, dozens more of the yellows and a pretty decent stack of purple already. Giving me more green gifts is totally worthless to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damoncord Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 BTW Just the energy costs to get to world 11 is 53970 Energy or about 300 days of using your energy perfectly. In those 300 days, you probably will "miss" perfect timing so it's gonna take longer so you may not need many more gifts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Napuli Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 My two cents on the patch Abit of a let down Karole starts at level 130 which is consistent with previous patches but she requires 10 wins to level up, that's 1'800 wins for max level. Compare that to Roko, who also require 180 levels to max level, only needs 7 wins per level which is a total of 1260 wins for max level. Now factor in that there's next to no scaling per level makes it very unrewarding... she need 900 wins just to get a chance to drop a epic gift The first 900 wins will on average give you 2'580'850 money if you sell all the gifts you get OR 15'484'500 money if you were to buy them from the shop. Compare that to max level Roko which is 26'550'000 and you will see a minor difference... (note: the odd may be skewed more in favor of Roko if there's a difference in drop between common and rare gifts) For the girls being unobtainable from Epic Pachinko seems like a good chance... nothing is more annoying than buying Epic Pachinko and getting a dropable girl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeMTO Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 10 minutes ago, Damoncord said: 196 Girls in Harem, ALL 196 maxed Affection, The only ones I can get are in Epic Pachinko (2 right now), from events (3), or are on Karol (3). She is THE ONLY place I have a chance at getting a girl to drop without buying more Kobans. I've got several Hundred of each of the grey and Green gifts, dozens more of the yellows and a pretty decent stack of purple already. Giving me more green gifts is totally worthless to me. All gifts have the same value (417 ymen per affection point). There's just more clicking involved in using the lower rarity ones. 5 minutes ago, Damoncord said: BTW Just the energy costs to get to world 11 is 53970 Energy or about 300 days of using your energy perfectly. In those 300 days, you probably will "miss" perfect timing so it's gonna take longer so you may not need many more gifts. Do you not plan to get any more event girls? Every player will always need more gifts if they keep getting girls. Having a stockpile now means they aren't as needed, sure. But this means we don't have to buy more gifts for the future. It's potentially a good thing long term, we'll just have to wait a bit to get enough data to know for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damoncord Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Just now, GeorgeMTO said: All gifts have the same value (417 ymen per affection point). There's just more clicking involved in using the lower rarity ones. Do you not plan to get any more event girls? Every player will always need more gifts if they keep getting girls. Having a stockpile now means they aren't as needed, sure. But this means we don't have to buy more gifts for the future. It's potentially a good thing long term, we'll just have to wait a bit to get enough data to know for sure I've cleaned out ALL the events other than the new ones each month of their boss girls. Some of the events I've even cleaned out their Epic Pachinko. Right now I have the 2 brand new Epic Pachinko girls, the 3 Event Epic Pachinko Only Girls, and the 3 from Karol I can get in-game right now. And that "$417" value per point requires you to NEED Affection. All 196 of my girls are maxed, I have enough gifts to max another Legendary girl, possibly a 5 star Legendary already with just my inventory. If it were books or the gift WITH a cash drop that could be helpful. That would have it as a bonus instead of the reward for beating her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeMTO Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Just now, Damoncord said: I've cleaned out ALL the events other than the new ones each month of their boss girls. Some of the events I've even cleaned out their Epic Pachinko. Right now I have the 2 brand new Epic Pachinko girls, the 3 Event Epic Pachinko Only Girls, and the 3 from Karol I can get in-game right now. And that "$417" value per point requires you to NEED Affection. All 196 of my girls are maxed, I have enough gifts to max another Legendary girl, possibly a 5 star Legendary already with just my inventory. If it were books or the gift WITH a cash drop that could be helpful. That would have it as a bonus instead of the reward for beating her. What about the girls beyond February? If you get girls in the future, you NEED affection. I was already aware that you had maxed all your girls, I even quoted that. If you keep playing the way you have, you'll have to buy more affection from the shop, except now Karole might give them to you at a better value. It just requires thinking ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damoncord Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 (edited) 48 minutes ago, GeorgeMTO said: What about the girls beyond February? If you get girls in the future, you NEED affection. I was already aware that you had maxed all your girls, I even quoted that. If you keep playing the way you have, you'll have to buy more affection from the shop, except now Karole might give them to you at a better value. It just requires thinking ahead. I'd much rather have a reliable and scalable cash payout than a payout that "scales" my chances at getting crap I don't WANT for the same resource. I can go fight Roko for cash still yeah, but I don't have any chance at the new girls that way. It's been a boat anchor for anyone who broke into a new world since they instituted the boss leveling system that the "New" boss was a downgrade in cash compared to the old one. The tradeoff was the "New" boss would eventually overtake the old boss, and had 3 new girls to earn as well while you were fighting your way through it. I have MORE than enough experience with RNG to know I don't trust the "Added" chance at getting better gifts down the line, so far I've got her 4 levels and I'm still getting more grey gifts (mostly flowers) than anything else so far. I'm the one who did 39 Single Spin Epic Pachinko spins in a row with 0 girl drops, I'm the one who spent almost 10K Kobans getting Levitya when they were still claiming she may never return. Their promises that it's going to be fair don't hold much water with my experience in how the RNG actually treats me. And let's be honest it's gonna be at LEAST a year before we get a new boss knowing how the scrolls came out over the last world. Yall already say that they already are discussing THAT boss getting books instead of gifts. That's seriously implying that they don't give a shit about our feedback. Edited January 9, 2019 by Damoncord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Holt Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Damoncord said: 196 Girls in Harem, ALL 196 maxed Affection, The only ones I can get are in Epic Pachinko (2 right now), from events (3), or are on Karol (3). She is THE ONLY place I have a chance at getting a girl to drop without buying more Kobans. I've got several Hundred of each of the grey and Green gifts, dozens more of the yellows and a pretty decent stack of purple already. Giving me more green gifts is totally worthless to me. Ok, I can understand, in your position, that you feel you don't need more gifts. I am going to assume you are either maxed out on your stat purchases or close to, so almost all of your money goes into leveling your equipment. With 196 Maxed girls, is the $500,000 a day from Roko a big loss to your daily money? I know that is weird to ask "is half a million dollars a big loss" but I would think your harem should be giving you about the same amount every time they are full. So yes if you can only get on once a day losing half of your profit is bad, but if it's only 1\5 or less of your daily profit I'm still not seeing the down side of fighting Karole. You get the girls she has captured (eventually) you get additional affection items that wont always be common or rare. I may not be able to change anyones mind, I just think that this is a better thing then is being complained about. But I also think that I have said just about everything on this I can I am starting to repeat my self and we are going around in circles. So in order for us to stay friendly thank you for the debate, and may the RNG be ever in your favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damoncord Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, Master Holt said: I may not be able to change anyones mind, I just think that this is a better thing then is being complained about. But I also think that I have said just about everything on this I can I am starting to repeat my self and we are going around in circles. So in order for us to stay friendly thank you for the debate, and may the RNG be ever in your favor. 1 It's never been in my favor, that's why I prefer the options that are much less RNG dependent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Holt Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 12 minutes ago, Damoncord said: And let's be honest it's gonna be at LEAST a year before we get a new boss knowing how the scrolls came out over the last world. Yall already say that they already are discussing THAT boss getting books instead of gifts. That's seriously implying that they don't give a shit about our feedback. Ohh, woah woah woah, I don't know any thing about what the next boss will have I want the next boss to give money, if they wanted to have a boss after the next boss give exp items I would think that would be cool but I don't want them all at once. and as for the next boss they have been putting out the new quests every week if they continue that we should have them around the begging of march Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damoncord Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 "Release of World 11 Quest 2 Part 1" The scrolls will be broke up over multiple releases just like they did to World 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Holt Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Ohhh,😞 I thought that was just the name of the scroll. Ok, maybe late April?!😟 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damoncord Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Sadly we have no idea how they will be breaking down the story, but if it goes like Plains of Rituals or the School it's gonna be a full year before they release a new world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackMacKenzie Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 5 hours ago, Master Holt said: if they wanted to have a boss after the next boss give exp items I would think that would be cool but I don't want them all at once. If the no-money bosses mechanic is written in stone, then this is s great idea. Alternating the bosses between money and items softens the blow significantly compared to the situation where Roko stays the pinnacle of cash payouts. The only potential difficulty in doing it this way is the number of chapters the devs are willing to add going forward. If they're adamant about sticking to the L400 cap and didn't plan to write anything beyond Chapter 12 or 13, then alternating becomes a non-issue. Let's hope that the worst case scenario is alternating between money and items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damoncord Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 26 minutes ago, ZackMacKenzie said: If the no-money bosses mechanic is written in stone, then this is s great idea. Alternating the bosses between money and items softens the blow significantly compared to the situation where Roko stays the pinnacle of cash payouts. The only potential difficulty in doing it this way is the number of chapters the devs are willing to add going forward. If they're adamant about sticking to the L400 cap and didn't plan to write anything beyond Chapter 12 or 13, then alternating becomes a non-issue. Let's hope that the worst case scenario is alternating between money and items. Far more people need exp for their Haremettes than they need shitty affection items. They claim they are doing this for "Game Balance" reasons but it's smelling like bullshit again, just like when Levi was added in the first Legendary Days and we couldn't find anyone in the first 6 hours who had got her to drop after many of us had spent thousands of Kobans trying to get her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniele Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 (edited) Surely Karole's rewards are really bad, especially compared to Roko, but i don't care that much. And maybe i'm the one who should complain the most, because i don't buy ANY affection items in the market, it's been months that i don't give ANY gifts to a girl and i don't give a fuck about those shitty affection scenes. I am always surprised every time i read someone who really cares about that crap. So yeah, Karole is completely useless for me right now. But there's something wrong with those players who buy gifts in the market jabbering about selling them for one sixth of the price... Edited January 9, 2019 by Daniele Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpinelesS Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) Not a fan of Affection items instead of cash (my girls love me already, and I have a stock of gifts) I would prefer cash, but I wouldn't mind books (leveling up all your girls is hard, even if you buy all the books every store reset) I also like that the girls aren't in Pachinko. I think I would be upset if I got a girl I could could get eventually through battles instead of one you can only get via Pachinko. Patch notes mention when epic and legendary gift items are added, but do the common affection items get removed at any point? Edited January 10, 2019 by SpinelesS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeMTO Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 7 hours ago, SpinelesS said: Patch notes mention when epic and legendary gift items are added, but do the common affection items get removed at any point? No. They are there the entire time. We think that the average value of the drop is going to be worth more than it would be if it was cash though, even with the commons staying in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soullord Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 The new boss is not worth the fights and even if it goes to legendary gift drops still not worth the fights. Just remove this shitty system and give us the money or increase the level cap of Roko and let anyone fight who he/she wants for what he/she wants. High level ppl need money not gifts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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