Legendary Lupa Discussion

[Zorba the Geek]

On 9/21/2019 at 9:28 AM, Z-Wave said:

TLDR version: DvDivXXX is right here. Let's see the big picture and not get too comfortable in our veteran seats. The game won't sustain without a healthy playerbase. KK please listen to your community!

Original version:

You've got a point there, a really good one. Thanks for your post, honestly my immediate reaction to the Lupa HC announcement was more like: "Meh..." I'm in the lucky and luxurious position of having all 5 star KH legendaries (or generally all 5 star legendaries for what it's worth) and I'm getting pretty comfortable in my veteran position. Not having Lupa to join my current PvP team is nothing more than a slight annoyance, but really no big deal to me personally. However: It is a huge deal for anybody outside of this high veteran tower and it has very much an indirect effect on the entire playerbase. If there are less and less new players to the game, there will be saturation and stagnation, slowly killing the game eventually.

Financially I don't see a sustainable Business Model: Overall more and more people are leaving the game from what I can see, and I don't blame them. New players are disappointed of the treatment (or mistreatment) of KK when it comes to patches, customer service, bugs etc. Others might be pissed about the excessive F2P mechanics that make it impossible to get every girl without spending truckloads of real world money and being constantly reminded about that with every event. Well and us veterans... we just get bored by the lame endgame. Also I'm pretty sure we don't pay a lot anymore (well... except for the 3 people committed to the exp race, you know who I mean :wink:). I personally dropped my 200$ patronage in March and went back to from the gold card to silver a few weeks ago because there's simply no use for anything else. Since leagues, contests, ToF rewards and missions provide enough Kobans for us veterans, who is going to pay for your jobs, if not the new and fresh players?!?

If the patreon income chart is any indication, the HH business seems to struggle ever since beginning of 2018:

So @Kinkoid @Noacc if you read this, please consider reading our statements and see how your community reacts to certain decisions you make. I think changing Lupa from KH to HC was a bad move for all parties involved, especially yourself and your long term business strategy. I love the game, despite the underwhelming customer service, the many bugs, the fluctuation in graphics quality and all your questionable decisions with patches. I want you to be successful so we can keep enjoying the game, and therefore we need a broader and much more satisfied playerbase. There is plenty of good advice from the community on this forum and on Discord. We are very much willing to help you with feedback and suggestions. The best way you can improve customer satisfaction dramatically and immediately, even without or at least very few additional costs would be:

1. Post patch notes early and in a complete manner, so all changes and additions are properly mentioned (and stick to them)
2. Use your test server to actually test the features (maybe one week in advance)

I'm sure you'll see a lot of magic happen through advanced and early feedback that you can react to in time... And probably this will have a positive effect on your profits as well. 😃

This was a useful and illuminating discussion you gave here, but I have to take issue with some of your assertions.  For one thing, the original version of Lupa is HC, as is her Xmas version.  Only her loving version was KH.  So her silver legendary version is a return to type.  Re. the fluctuation in graphics quality, this is a bit ambiguous of you.  Do you mean the digital quality of the display or the quality of the artwork?

Re. the bugs, yes there are some serious intermittant image bugs at the moment.  Given the battle display, it would appear I've joined the Gay Harem with some beefy guy cumming all over the place from a standing position.  As well as that, we have a new arena judge bringing her considerable charms to the event.  Have a look at the image below for a bit of a laugh perhaps.  Mavin's obviously looking at a distorting mirror.  Given this scene as a whole, I've captured quite a number of these image bugs in one hit.  As they don't seem to affect the game's performance, I'm more amused than annoyed.

The game (for me anyway), doesn't post those annoying error messages anymore needing a refresh to resume the game, and all aspects of the game now move along sweetly and reliably.  For this I'm eternally grateful, since the developers have been working tirelessly in the background on our behalf.

Back to topic, I'm especially interested in what Lupa's favourite position might be.  History has it that she has mirrored that of Bunny quite closely and this seems to relate to their rivalry.  Since Golden Bunny has reverted to doggy style, I expect Silver Lupa will do the same.  Why do I find this important?  Well, it isn't until I get her (if at all), but choosing her and in what order seems to matter for what champion I might be up against.  The champs each seem to select a short range of particular positions that stay in a consistent order from round to round, as far as I can tell anyway. For this reason, too, I'm keen to get her in my KH accounts as well.

[ShadowHaamu]

4 hours ago, Valgo said:

 

Not a big surprise there.....

And it would keep dropping.....

Hopefully it would keep dropping till they start to listen...

 

 

While part of me likes that idea, there is also one problem here. 

If their their revenue keep dropping, they might even close the game completely. Sure, it's not all that likely at the moment, yet it could still happen. 

 

That said, this ain't surprise at all. 9 out 10 of their recent changes had been bad right from the start and the whole game had went for more and more to "p2w" direction. That only works to a certain point as way too often the devs gets too greedy with it and then they ruin their game. And now we are getting closer and closer to a critical point, where the fate of the game is decided.  

[Observer_X]

5 hours ago, sanjkame said:

Oh I forgot, sorry man, but I can't help but to say that this is your choice

Absolutely agree

5 hours ago, sanjkame said:

you shouldn't come here aways to complain about the "unobtainable girls"

and absolutely disagree. As I also said elsewhere before, as a player, I feel I have the right to complain anytime there is something in the game that I don't like. Remember anyways that when I complain, I talk for myself, because I wish to share that I don't like that thing: neither I have the wish to convince anyone, nor to pretend my words are gold cast. Furthermore...

6 hours ago, sanjkame said:

Legendary days is just like this, you get 1-3 from drop, and you aways will have to use some kobans, more or less(Unless you get a jackspot of course) and it's nothing wrong with that, afterall it's a LEGENDARY girl, not a common folk.

... it's more than two years that I play the game, and I know how legendary days works all too well. The purpose of the first post you quoted was not to complain (again) about the legendary days, was only to state that this one in particular won't get me excited and why. You should also remember that, although those are not five star, in some Epic Days and other 2 year event revival we had legendary girls on bosses with a different shard quantity per drop (I obtained Spring Lola in this way)

[snowman22]

9 hours ago, Daniele said:

At least 2 rounds on most fights!? It seems very strange to me... 🤔
I mean, let's say you fill your excitement bar in 2 rounds. If what you said is true, it means that most of your fights last 8 or more rounds
Even with 6 rainbows my battles last 6 rounds. A 7th one is very rare, and the omega contribution is irrelevant anyway, because the fight would end even without her.

I have been wrong before so I resolved to note my next few D3 league battles.

I am level KH 356 and I have been working my way down the league by level so the higher opponents are either done, really dicey, or not winnable. rwo is rounds with omega. Higher up the table the fights took longer. I take on players with egos up to about 330 and expect to win as long as they have some flaw in their setup. Those fights probably went 9/10 rounds. I could probably risk egos up to 340 but I am reserving the option of using better boosters at some point.

Me: L356 E313K A47.2 D18.0   rnds  rwo   wins
  HC 366  295   45.1  14.2   8     1     all 3
  HC 365  283   46.9  15.3   8     1     all 3
  HC 364  303   46.1  16.8   9     2     all 3

I am about 60% down the table now and sitting 25th in D3. L356 is at about 70% the way down. By the time I get there my omega will probably start to sit out fights. But I have been glad to have her for the top 3/4!

[sexj]

if you can t complete the 100 points of attraction of Lupa is it posible to get her in near future?

[trunks2585]

12 minutes ago, sexj said:

if you can t complete the 100 points of attraction of Lupa is it posible to get her in near future?

Honestly, who knows?  By this time last year we had a legendary days revival, if I'm remembering right.  So far we're still waiting on batch two legionaries to get a chance again.  Maybe the devs will do a massive legendary days revival with groups 1-3, or maybe they'll just move onto starting group 4 (and make the concept of affection points even more pointless).

Right now, you're best bet is to spend kobans on refills if you absolutely must have her.

As for me, she's not my class, I don't care for her legendary form that much (Even though I love the game Okami)  and I've had a terrible drop rate with her so far.  If I can't even get her half way with free fights, I won't even consider spending kobans to get her.

[GeorgeMTO]

3 minutes ago, trunks2585 said:

As for me, she's not my class, I don't care for her legendary form that much (Even though I love the game Okami)  and I've had a terrible drop rate with her so far.  If I can't even get her half way with free fights, I won't even consider spending kobans to get her.

On average a legendary girl will take 500 fights. Each day gives us 48 free fights, chance of 2 from arena each day, and up to 20 depending on how many you had as the event started, so up to 220 fights. So on average you shouldn't be halfway.

21 minutes ago, sexj said:

if you can t complete the 100 points of attraction of Lupa is it posible to get her in near future?

Odds are no.

[sexj]

5 minutes ago, trunks2585 said:

Honestly, who knows?  By this time last year we had a legendary days revival, if I'm remembering right.  So far we're still waiting on batch two legionaries to get a chance again.  Maybe the devs will do a massive legendary days revival with groups 1-3, or maybe they'll just move onto starting group 4 (and make the concept of affection points even more pointless).

Right now, you're best bet is to spend kobans on refills if you absolutely must have her.

As for me, she's not my class, I don't care for her legendary form that much (Even though I love the game Okami)  and I've had a terrible drop rate with her so far.  If I can't even get her half way with free fights, I won't even consider spending kobans to get her.

it is my class but i gain only 20 points of attraction so far and i calculate the risk to lose the kobans without take her as award????

[trunks2585]

On 9/20/2019 at 4:28 PM, Z-Wave said:

TLDR version: DvDivXXX is right here. Let's see the big picture and not get too comfortable in our veteran seats. The game won't sustain without a healthy playerbase. KK please listen to your community!

Original version:

You've got a point there, a really good one. Thanks for your post, honestly my immediate reaction to the Lupa HC announcement was more like: "Meh..." I'm in the lucky and luxurious position of having all 5 star KH legendaries (or generally all 5 star legendaries for what it's worth) and I'm getting pretty comfortable in my veteran position. Not having Lupa to join my current PvP team is nothing more than a slight annoyance, but really no big deal to me personally. However: It is a huge deal for anybody outside of this high veteran tower and it has very much an indirect effect on the entire playerbase. If there are less and less new players to the game, there will be saturation and stagnation, slowly killing the game eventually.

Financially I don't see a sustainable Business Model: Overall more and more people are leaving the game from what I can see, and I don't blame them. New players are disappointed of the treatment (or mistreatment) of KK when it comes to patches, customer service, bugs etc. Others might be pissed about the excessive F2P mechanics that make it impossible to get every girl without spending truckloads of real world money and being constantly reminded about that with every event. Well and us veterans... we just get bored by the lame endgame. Also I'm pretty sure we don't pay a lot anymore (well... except for the 3 people committed to the exp race, you know who I mean :wink:). I personally dropped my 200$ patronage in March and went back to from the gold card to silver a few weeks ago because there's simply no use for anything else. Since leagues, contests, ToF rewards and missions provide enough Kobans for us veterans, who is going to pay for your jobs, if not the new and fresh players?!?

If the patreon income chart is any indication, the HH business seems to struggle ever since beginning of 2018:

So @Kinkoid @Noacc if you read this, please consider reading our statements and see how your community reacts to certain decisions you make. I think changing Lupa from KH to HC was a bad move for all parties involved, especially yourself and your long term business strategy. I love the game, despite the underwhelming customer service, the many bugs, the fluctuation in graphics quality and all your questionable decisions with patches. I want you to be successful so we can keep enjoying the game, and therefore we need a broader and much more satisfied playerbase. There is plenty of good advice from the community on this forum and on Discord. We are very much willing to help you with feedback and suggestions. The best way you can improve customer satisfaction dramatically and immediately, even without or at least very few additional costs would be:

1. Post patch notes early and in a complete manner, so all changes and additions are properly mentioned (and stick to them)
2. Use your test server to actually test the features (maybe one week in advance)

I'm sure you'll see a lot of magic happen through advanced and early feedback that you can react to in time... And probably this will have a positive effect on your profits as well. 😃

Interesting chart, what do the two color lines represent though?  Likewise I should see if I can find a similar chart for Granblue Fantasy and see how Cygames are doing on their profits with their own gacha game.  Of course their profits are partly supported by having full merchandise. (plushies, keychains of characters, music soundtracks etc.)  But if I could find something about money spent just on their game that would be interesting to see.  Or really any other gacha game's profits.

11 hours ago, Valgo said:

 

Not a big surprise there.....

And it would keep dropping.....

Hopefully it would keep dropping till they start to listen...

 

 

 

7 hours ago, ShadowHaamu said:

While part of me likes that idea, there is also one problem here. 

If their their revenue keep dropping, they might even close the game completely. Sure, it's not all that likely at the moment, yet it could still happen. 

 

That said, this ain't surprise at all. 9 out 10 of their recent changes had been bad right from the start and the whole game had went for more and more to "p2w" direction. That only works to a certain point as way too often the devs gets too greedy with it and then they ruin their game. And now we are getting closer and closer to a critical point, where the fate of the game is decided.  

The morbid curiosity part of me would want to see how far profits have to dip to see a change, and then, to see what change takes place, Kinkond making more favorable changes and being more transparent with players, or if they just close shop.  Would they give to the players more and hope that the players would pay for the gold cards and the kobans, not out of necessity, but out of support.  Or would they rather just pull the plug and not have to spend any more money on a game and just go back to their normal jobs.  If that chart is anything to go by, we might get an answer.

[FinderKeeper]

Just now, sexj said:

it is my class but i gain only 20 points of attraction so far and i calculate the risk to lose the kobans without take her as award????

Expect to need 400 more fights to get her and you should be fine.

[trunks2585]

7 minutes ago, GeorgeMTO said:

On average a legendary girl will take 500 fights. Each day gives us 48 free fights, chance of 2 from arena each day, and up to 20 depending on how many you had as the event started, so up to 220 fights. So on average you shouldn't be halfway.

 

Close to halfway then.  Faibenne is at 47.  I forget what Ombresse was at, but I know she was over halfway when I decided I'd spend the points for her (got lucky and somewhere in the second half got a 100 drop on her).

So far in my two accounts (normal and test)  Lupa is at like 16 points.

[Z-Wave]

@Zorba the Geek regarding your questions:

1. My information regarding KK's intentions with Silver Lupa were ill-informed. They could just as well have planned her to be HC all along or not planned anything at all and just rolled a dice. 😂 The point I actually wanted to make is that they should have went with the reasonable choice and made the current 5 star legendary KH and not HC or CH. The backlash and player disappointment would have been much less.
2. I was referring to the artwork quality. KK uses different artists and sometimes they don't/can't spend enough time on the art to meet a unified quality standard. Best examples would be the different art style of Sarah Jay (but this is an entirely different discussion again) and events happening in September 2018 and March/April 2019. For reference: Check the art style of Katharina and Vivia as standout examples of inconsistency. On Discord, FAB Kinkoid even apologized publicly for this (which is a nice move, but also confirmation).
3. Visual bugs barely concern me if the core gameplay functions (on mobile, I usually have graphics disabled anyway). The bugs I was referring to were game breaking bugs like the ToF bug that was not fixed for many months. On top of that: Most of these bugs were based on the same concept (using multiple sessions and relogins to exploit) and quite easy to find. I was very disappointed when KK introduced this kind of bug with every new features (latest example was Sex Champions) without checking for them first and learning from their previous mistakes in leagues, ToF, market, villain fights and energy refill... Maybe I'm wrong and it's not avoidable to have some bugs here and there with every update, but given that the character of the bugs are so similar, I would assume somebody on KK's team could check specifically for them before players find them in 5 minutes...

[Z-Wave]

18 minutes ago, trunks2585 said:

Interesting chart, what do the two color lines represent though?  Likewise I should see if I can find a similar chart for Granblue Fantasy and see how Cygames are doing on their profits with their own gacha game.  Of course their profits are partly supported by having full merchandise.

The yellow line represents the number of patrons while the green line represents the income in dollars. Here's the original source where you can also check for every other creator on patreon: https://graphtreon.com/creator/hentaiheroes

[Chthugha]

My guess there is that the line drops because the big spenders do not need that many kobans anymore after a while, especially with league rewards as high as they are. New games always attract more patrons earlier on and then it drops down as it becomes harder and harder to catch up from nothing.

Anyway, this could be seen as a trend, but it is hard to conclude anything from this without a similar chart about bought kobans. The patreon is not their main income generation. Monthly cards alone should make them more money than that.

[Valgo]

10 hours ago, ShadowHaamu said:

While part of me likes that idea, there is also one problem here. 

If their their revenue keep dropping, they might even close the game completely. Sure, it's not all that likely at the moment, yet it could still happen. 

 

That said, this ain't surprise at all. 9 out 10 of their recent changes had been bad right from the start and the whole game had went for more and more to "p2w" direction. That only works to a certain point as way too often the devs gets too greedy with it and then they ruin their game. And now we are getting closer and closer to a critical point, where the fate of the game is decided.  

 

It never went to p2w direction, it always have been p2w. Of course, there is bound to be a couple of special snowflake that is blind to see this pattern & continue to support them, which naturally encourage them to implement more bullshit. They just simply don't care about player, just $. 

Their ticket is a joke as well, 4 months since I last send it & 0 reply from them. That's already tell me how much they care for their player.

[FinderKeeper]

1 hour ago, Valgo said:

Their ticket is a joke as well, 4 months since I last send it & 0 reply from them. That's already tell me how much they care for their player.

All 3 of my tickets were answered within 1 working day. I'd say they care enough.

[Chthugha]

if your ticket isn't answered, maybe there's nothing to answer.
in that case you could argue they should have a standard reply ready, but oh well.

[linkdream]

6 hours ago, Z-Wave said:

2. I was referring to the artwork quality. KK uses different artists and sometimes they don't/can't spend enough time on the art to meet a unified quality standard. Best examples would be the different art style of Sarah Jay (but this is an entirely different discussion again) and events happening in September 2018 and March/April 2019. For reference: Check the art style of Katharina and Vivia as standout examples of inconsistency. On Discord, FAB Kinkoid even apologized publicly for this (which is a nice move, but also confirmation).

I think the clicker game is a mistake. They scattered the few resources they had and I doubt that many players are enjoying that game (I didn't).

Maintaining a few games is difficult. I would argue that even GH is redundant.

Focus on one game. Do it right.

[Daniele]

16 hours ago, Zorba the Geek said:

Back to topic, I'm especially interested in what Lupa's favourite position might be.  History has it that she has mirrored that of Bunny quite closely and this seems to relate to their rivalry.  Since Golden Bunny has reverted to doggy style, I expect Silver Lupa will do the same

Yeah, who knows what position might be... It's a real mystery! I'll try to use my precognition powers...

...🤔

...🤔

...🤔

Ok, I would say Sodomy. But you got to take what i say with a grain of salt, my powers are not infallible 

[ShadowHaamu]

Welp, I guess the devs had lowered shard drop rates for this legendary days event. So many fights and barely any shards at all. And if this continues, I'm going to need closer to 1000 fights to even have a chance for the this one. Yet, that's not worth the kobans it would require. 

Then again, it shouldn't be surprise really. Devs only care about money these days. 

[Daniele]

23 minutes ago, ShadowHaamu said:

Welp, I guess the devs had lowered shard drop rates for this legendary days event. So many fights and barely any shards at all

Well, just because you're unlucky, it doesn't necessarily mean they lowered the drop rate. No luck for me either in this account, only 16 shards so far. But i got 34 on the test server, and 37 on nutaku. RNG...

[sanjkame]

4 hours ago, linkdream said:

I think the clicker game is a mistake. They scattered the few resources they had and I doubt that many players are enjoying that game (I didn't).

Say for yourself, I'm liking the clicker game, and in term of art style, the HH artist really could get some inspiration from the Hclicker artists(If they are not the same, obviously). Because in Hclicker you really see an artistic pattern, there aren't a lot of inconsistencies like the one one HH

[Valgo]

7 hours ago, Chthugha said:

if your ticket isn't answered, maybe there's nothing to answer.
in that case you could argue they should have a standard reply ready, but oh well.

Might as well don't bother to implement this features, waste of time for both sides and show how far the quality of the service is.

Even the current shard drop rate is a jokes. Lower it to the extend that it force player to spend koban or wait for god damn know how long to even have a chances at it. If player have to wait more than 6 months to even have another chances to grab a shard again, is no wonder all new player running away.

[DvDivXXX]

59 minutes ago, sanjkame said:

Say for yourself, I'm liking the clicker game, and in term of art style, the HH artist really could get some inspiration from the Hclicker artists(If they are not the same, obviously). Because in Hclicker you really see an artistic pattern, there aren't a lot of inconsistencies like the one one HH

Well, I somewhat agree with you both. I'm not a big fan of Hentai Clicker, although I still play it daily (the bare minimum, basically), but I really like the art style and its consistency. However, to be fair, the number of unique pictures included in that game, and the number of new images required to maintain it, is very small compared to Hentai Heroes. I mean, every single girl is just a slight variation on the exact same 3-D model that they only had to create once, and can alter an infinite number of times from there (hair color, clothes, etc.). There's only one pose with one camera angle for everyone, be it your own girls or the ones you fight. Besides a few thumbnails here and there (including the head shot for each girl), they really only have like 3 actual drawings to make per girl (the affection scenes), and there aren't many. So yeah, the art style is neat, but it also has a much more limited scope.

Besides that, the clicker still took a lot of resources and time that they could have spent on improving and further developing HH instead, especially since their team isn't that big, and they already outsource some of the art if I understand correctly. So linkdream also has a point imho.

[linkdream]

1 hour ago, sanjkame said:

Say for yourself, I'm liking the clicker game, and in term of art style, the HH artist really could get some inspiration from the Hclicker artists(If they are not the same, obviously). Because in Hclicker you really see an artistic pattern, there aren't a lot of inconsistencies like the one one HH

That's my point. I would love to see the clicker artist replace the pachinko girls artist because that one is awful. Granted, the blonde chick will show up in HH but that remains cameo, nothing less.

I would prefer that they put their best artists/programmers in one game and do it right rather than scatter their (finite) resources in multiple games.