12/Feb/2020 week 7 patch note discussion

[Cantrix]

On 2/12/2020 at 5:36 PM, Antimon said:

about the two epic x1 orbs as separate rewards, you're right, they may be one single reward.

By the way, the fact that it says "an additional drop" makes me think that is a on time only reward. A permanent between one time only rewards is a risky move, if they wanted it to be permanent they could put the orb instead of the legendary gifts you get in the final stage after you got all the champion exclusive rewards (and they didn't say anything about the legendary gifts, I'd say they're still there)

The orbs are a permanent reward on the 5 stage. They are there in place of the gifts after you've obtained a girl also. And while they are permanent reward, they will simply be an addition, they will NOT interfere with the chance to get a girl. Read the patch notes again.

[DvDivXXX]

6 hours ago, LanceHardwood said:

The patch notes practically spell it out that it is as intended. You just have to read the actual meaning, not apply wishful thinking. (...) But the wording is there for a reason. The only context it would make sense in, is if the change is intended. Otherwise they wouldn't need to reassure players that the chance is "still the same" when they would be able to see that it is, by not getting orbs until other rewards are exhausted.

Well, it's okay if you want to be pessimistic and assume that the devs are evil and out to get us, but then you lose the ability to contribute meaningfully to the conversation. Because, if you truly believe that they don't care and won't change anything based on player feedback anyway, then there's nothing left to say. You can either quit the game (or at least quit posting feedback) based on this belief, or you can become negative background noise like so many players are in so many gaming communities. You know? Those people who essentially just repeat useless, generic complaints ad nauseum like "the devs are greedy", "the meta is terrible", "yadda yadda RNG", "this game is getting worse and worse"', or edgy, thoughtful memes like "small indie company" or "spaghetti code" said in a "sarcastic" tone... But somehow, they keep playing the game (and many of them keep putting money in it). I've seen it all before in other games, and it's just a mild nuisance that everyone else filters out, including the devs (which can give those serial complainers the impression that they were right all along, ironically).

I choose to give them at least the benefit of the doubt, and assume that they want their game to thrive, and thus, their player base to be satisfied (and to keep growing, which is consistent with the numerous recent updates that make picking up the game less of an overwhelming challenge). I think they're open to feedback, and I've seen them follow through on a number of popular player requests, even if their timing wasn't always the best. So I prefer to give them constructive feedback and hope they'll do the right thing and listen to us.

I also know for a fact that communication in general isn't Kinkoid's greatest strength, to put it mildly, and that their wording in particular is often inaccurate, imprecise, and/or just weird. That's even true in the game's dialogue, both in English (not their native language) and, oddly enough, often in French as well (my guess is that it's because they write in English first, and then translate, which isn't their strong suit either). So... Putting that much faith in the specific wording of one sentence in the patch notes seems pretty misguided to me.

As I said, completely breaking the consistency of the Champions grind, which is already a very long and hard part of the game to go through, is inconsistent with the direction they've taken their updates in lately. So, if this was really intentional, it would come as a surprise to me (and be a wrong decision leading to justified player backlash, no doubt about that). So, until they confirm otherwise, my money is on a poor implementation instead of a deliberate terrible move.

32 minutes ago, Karyia said:

Should be a revival from last year's classic  

You're right (I've checked now ^^). And it was called Valentine 2019, so it makes sense they didn't keep the exact name.

6 minutes ago, Cantrix said:

The orbs are a permanent reward on the 5 stage. They are there in place of the gifts after you've obtained a girl also. And while they are permanent reward, they will simply be an addition, they will NOT interfere with the chance to get a girl. Read the patch notes again.

Sorry but you are incorrect on the second part of that post. The current implementation of the permanent orb reward does interfere very directly and very negatively on the chance to get the girl (by being an alternative reward instead of an additional one, as it should have been). Read the thread again.

[LanceHardwood]

27 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

snip

I don't appreciate being attacked on a personal level, when all I'm trying to do is clear up what's going on, so players can be properly informed and act accordingly. To what extent the devs listen to feedback I don't know, but if we can get them to revert this it would be great. However that can't happen if everyone's hoping they just made a mistake, which clearly isn't the case. I'm not being pessimistic, I'm being realistic. My belief is based on the results people are getting, the patch notes which would only make sense in this context and the fact that the wording is consistent with other parts of the game which are related to drop chances. What do you base your conviction on ?

P.S. I am assuming champions were intended as end-game content, but they saw that a lot of players were farming them for the girls, of which the latter 3 are each top in their class. This could explain why orbs are being added to them.

Edited February 14, 2020 by LanceHardwood

[Mihai]

1 hour ago, DvDivXXX said:

I choose to give them at least the benefit of the doubt, and assume that they want their game to thrive, and thus, their player base to be satisfied (and to keep growing, which is consistent with the numerous recent updates that make picking up the game less of an overwhelming challenge). I think they're open to feedback, and I've seen them follow through on a number of popular player requests, even if their timing wasn't always the best. So I prefer to give them constructive feedback and hope they'll do the right thing and listen to us.

I do too, I am hoping this was only a mistake, but I did underline as well their wording there. The devs of this game proved to be kind in general, but this is also not the first time they nerf the champions rewards, remember the legendary equipment nerf.

[DvDivXXX]

41 minutes ago, LanceHardwood said:

I don't appreciate being attacked on a personal level, when all I'm trying to do is clear up what's going on, so players can be properly informed and act accordingly.

That wasn't an attack, and definitely not anything personal. Sorry you took it as such, though. You insisted that the devs implemented this terrible blow to the Champion progress deliberately, and that the wording of one particular part of the patch notes is proof of that. It seems like a pessimistic approach that takes for granted that the devs want to impact us negatively, which can lead to the vicious circle I described, if you go that route. That was just friendly advice, however, not an attack. Take it or leave it, no problem.

I addressed why I think you're probably wrong, as I don't think the devs would deliberately sabotage such a key part of the game on purpose, and I know that their communication and wording aren't the most reliable, to say the least. So a poor implementation of this new feature, along with unclear patch notes, seem more likely.

I base my conviction in what I already explained, as both of these things happened multiple times in just the six months since I've started the game, and a horrible nerf to a core aspect of the game (especially one that impacts new and future players the most), as this change would be if it's working as intended as you claim, has yet to happen.

5 minutes ago, Mihai said:

but this is also not the first time they nerf the champions rewards, remember the legendary equipment nerf. 

Sure, but there's a world of difference between giving less rewards along the way and outright destroying the consistency of the feature, by making your overall progress rely on pure RNG throughout instead of just some RNG up to a point (when you reach the 8th pass).

Edited February 14, 2020 by DvDivXXX

[Antimon]

@LanceHardwood the point is, even taking as true your vision (champion girl drop fixed at let's say 15%, the other 85% drop chance divided between all the other possible rewards), in the old system you could reach a point (8th stage) where, if you didn't drop the girl before, you had 100% of chance of getting her.

Adding a permanent and possibly recurrent reward in a pool of one time only rewards makes the sentence "The orbs will NOT decrease the chance of obtaining the champion girls" false even in your interpretation, in the case of a player that reach the 8th stage without having dropped the girl yet. 

That sentence is always problematic and not completely true, if the orbs are a separate, permanent and recurrent new reward.

[Pelinor]

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Antimon said:

... problematic and not completely true, if the orbs are a separate, permanent and recurrent new reward.

I hope this is the case, and the orbs are a "permanent and recurrent new reward" because such a situation would provide an additional reason for returning to the champions beyond the Yemen incentive once the girl is obtained.

[Bomba]

3 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

Well, it's okay if you want to be pessimistic and assume that the devs are evil and out to get us, but then you lose the ability to contribute meaningfully to the conversation. Because, if you truly believe that they don't care and won't change anything based on player feedback anyway, then there's nothing left to say. You can either quit the game (or at least quit posting feedback) based on this belief, or you can become negative background noise like so many players are in so many gaming communities. You know? Those people who essentially just repeat useless, generic complaints ad nauseum like "the devs are greedy", "the meta is terrible", "yadda yadda RNG", "this game is getting worse and worse"', or edgy, thoughtful memes like "small indie company" or "spaghetti code" said in a "sarcastic" tone... But somehow, they keep playing the game (and many of them keep putting money in it). I've seen it all before in other games, and it's just a mild nuisance that everyone else filters out, including the devs (which can give those serial complainers the impression that they were right all along, ironically).

I choose to give them at least the benefit of the doubt, and assume that they want their game to thrive, and thus, their player base to be satisfied (and to keep growing, which is consistent with the numerous recent updates that make picking up the game less of an overwhelming challenge). I think they're open to feedback, and I've seen them follow through on a number of popular player requests, even if their timing wasn't always the best. So I prefer to give them constructive feedback and hope they'll do the right thing and listen to us.

I also know for a fact that communication in general isn't Kinkoid's greatest strength, to put it mildly, and that their wording in particular is often inaccurate, imprecise, and/or just weird. That's even true in the game's dialogue, both in English (not their native language) and, oddly enough, often in French as well (my guess is that it's because they write in English first, and then translate, which isn't their strong suit either). So... Putting that much faith in the specific wording of one sentence in the patch notes seems pretty misguided to me.

As I said, completely breaking the consistency of the Champions grind, which is already a very long and hard part of the game to go through, is inconsistent with the direction they've taken their updates in lately. So, if this was really intentional, it would come as a surprise to me (and be a wrong decision leading to justified player backlash, no doubt about that). So, until they confirm otherwise, my money is on a poor implementation instead of a deliberate terrible move.

 

Sorry but you are incorrect on the second part of that post. The current implementation of the permanent orb reward does interfere very directly and very negatively on the chance to get the girl (by being an alternative reward instead of an additional one, as it should have been). Read the thread again.

I see, you're still very confused DvDivXXX. It was the very first question asked in this thread. And it took 5 pages to actually confirm that pachinko orbs actually deny you the girl at 8th level. And developers did respond to this thread and completely avoided that question, which means it was intended. So they not only lied in the patch notes about "The orbs will NOT decrease the chance of obtaining the champion girls." when they actually do and as you correctly said "very directly and very negatively '. They also did so deliberately, because it is an intended behavior and they don't want any fuss about it.

So it is very consistent with the direction they've taken their updates in lately. Art quality has dropped. So they use less money for art. But also they bump the ways you can spend your kobans, increasing their money income. Event Pachinko, x14 League performance, Mythic Pachinko, New monthly card, New feature to use multiple tickets. Also they bumped the exp gain for new players, so they gain levels and progress faster, but they didn't raise other features, so the ymen income stayed the same and new players are now more inclined to use kobans on harem upgrades and other features, that are ymen-only for more veteran players. Also the best ymen income - champion tickets got nerfed in terms of where and how you can get them. They lowered the number by two removing them from Arena rewards and also some got removed from potential mission rewards. Same about League rewards - ymens got removed from rewards there as well. Trying to change not only economy and usage of ymens, but also making it harder to progress in champions. And now with 100% chance of getting the girl removed from the 8th level it's now a ticket sink, which can also generate them more income, because you can buy said tickets with kobans and now you're more inclined to do so, because it's harder to get tickets.
So I think you're wrong and it's very consistent with what they're doing. I'm fine with them trying to raise their income, but Sex Champions should give girl at 8th level maximum, like it was from the beginning.

So how about we stop pretending like it's not intended and some sort of bug and actually start complaining about this treachery?

Developers, give us back an ability to get a girl from Sex Champions at 8th level maximum!

[blaa]

/quote a lot of biased arguments why something is intended or not /quoteend

Obviously nobody can say if it was intended or not - instead of speculating about other minds and/or actions, just focus on the important things, and in that all (or at least most) of us have the same opinion: the girl should at last drop on lvl 8.

You can say that without all the shitty arguments which are full of fallacies and maybe you have noticed it in your 'real life' - most of the time your succes of getting something is much higher if you dont insult, insinuate, ... someone or something. 

[LanceHardwood]

4 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

That wasn't an attack, and definitely not anything personal. Sorry you took it as such, though. You insisted that the devs implemented this terrible blow to the Champion progress deliberately, and that the wording of one particular part of the patch notes is proof of that. It seems like a pessimistic approach that takes for granted that the devs want to impact us negatively, which can lead to the vicious circle I described, if you go that route. That was just friendly advice, however, not an attack. Take it or leave it, no problem.

I addressed why I think you're probably wrong, as I don't think the devs would deliberately sabotage such a key part of the game on purpose, and I know that their communication and wording aren't the most reliable, to say the least. So a poor implementation of this new feature, along with unclear patch notes, seem more likely.

I base my conviction in what I already explained, as both of these things happened multiple times in just the six months since I've started the game, and a horrible nerf to a core aspect of the game (especially one that impacts new and future players the most), as this change would be if it's working as intended as you claim, has yet to happen.

Sure, but there's a world of difference between giving less rewards along the way and outright destroying the consistency of the feature, by making your overall progress rely on pure RNG throughout instead of just some RNG up to a point (when you reach the 8th pass).

I'm sorry that I misunderstood your comment - you did specifically refer to me as negative and insinuated I would fit in within a category loosely defined as "internet troll". But how is providing arguments supporting a certain claim considered negative. I never voiced any opinion based purely on personal feelings, nor have I called the devs being evil/greedy or whatnot.

To consider something when it's supported by e certain amount of evidence is realistic, rather than pessimistic. Furthermore I'm not basing my belief exclusively on the language used, which is indeed open to interpretation. I am merely pointing out how one of the possible interpretations fits with all the other proof. But my main argument actually, is that this mention even exists in the patch notes. The devs wouldn't put it there if orbs to be additional reward after getting the girls. Why would they ? Nobody would be confused, because they wouldn't be getting orbs instead of girls, meaning no need for that clarification in patch notes. Additionally consistent throughout the game is that rewards only appear when they are available to drop. It's impossible they didn't notice orbs appearing on champion screens during testing, further supporting the current result.

What I think the devs didn't consider the value players put on obtaining those girls, they just sought to synchronize champions with all other methods of obtaining girls which are completely probability-based (with the exception of main quest). And maybe push champions into the explicitly end-game mechanic, which it was intended to be, evident from the fact that Murane, Any and Shtupra are the top girls in the game.

Focusing on the way people provide feedback would make much more sense, than focusing on me spreading awareness for how this is intentional. If the devs are reasonable enough, they might change the implementation if presented with a constructive and well-reasoned request. I'll repeat myself again - the more people realize it, the more they will start making definitive moves to petition for a change, instead of just hoping this will fix itself. Staying "positive" as you put it, can be deceptively more damaging to player interests.

TLDR: It's not the wording, it's the existence of the note.

3 hours ago, Antimon said:

@LanceHardwood the point is, even taking as true your vision (champion girl drop fixed at let's say 15%, the other 85% drop chance divided between all the other possible rewards), in the old system you could reach a point (8th stage) where, if you didn't drop the girl before, you had 100% of chance of getting her.

Adding a permanent and possibly recurrent reward in a pool of one time only rewards makes the sentence "The orbs will NOT decrease the chance of obtaining the champion girls" false even in your interpretation, in the case of a player that reach the 8th stage without having dropped the girl yet. 

That sentence is always problematic and not completely true, if the orbs are a separate, permanent and recurrent new reward.

Applying common sense to a statement which is based on technical implementation logic doesn't work. In purely technical terms (which they are going for) the sentence is true if you consider that the girls' fixed coded chance (more likely 10% or less) was never 100% even though you were guaranteed to get them by run 8. What you're referring to are the the conditions under which it applies, and those are never mentioned in the patch notes. The confusion is due an implicit and unstated condition that all static chances cease apply if there are no other rewards, places where a reward is guaranteed - namely pachinko and champions. Thus the note that static chance itself doesn't change is true. I personally didn't even consider it as a probability mechanic before, because you were guaranteed to get the girl eventually. The patch itself has made my mistake painfully clear.

Now how am I so certain that they use "technical meaning" ? Because multiple things around the game are worded in similar context. Since champions guarantee rewards akin to Pachinko, let's look at Event Pachinko for example, the text is "“4 games” option gives a high chance for 1 Event Girl or 1 Event Avatar and guarantees 3 Legendary Items.". Common sense interpretation would be that girls and avatars have a common total drop chance, but that's incorrect as girls have a fixed drop chance, which doesn't increase when all avatars are gone. The text comes with an implicit condition of "both girls and avatars being available". Same as the implicit condition in patch notes of my interpretation. In fact if items were 1-time rewards, you'd have the same pseudo-100% chance that Champions did. It just never made sense to limit Pachinko to a finite amount of rolls, like it did for champions (originally). Now they are simply removing the limit of times you'll get a non-money reward from Champions. And while it affects our ability to obtain the girls it doesn't affect their coded drop chance, thus being true to the letter.

Edited February 14, 2020 by LanceHardwood

[Bomba]

11 minutes ago, blaa said:

/quote a lot of biased arguments why something is intended or not /quoteend

Obviously nobody can say if it was intended or not - instead of speculating about other minds and/or actions, just focus on the important things, and in that all (or at least most) of us have the same opinion: the girl should at last drop on lvl 8.

You can say that without all the shitty arguments which are full of fallacies and maybe you have noticed it in your 'real life' - most of the time your succes of getting something is much higher if you dont insult, insinuate, ... someone or something. 

If that was addressed to me. I'm sorry, for me the lack of response is still a response. If such an assumption is wrong I'll stay corrected. My main point is the same as yours -  "the girl should at last drop on lvl 8".

[DvDivXXX]

1 hour ago, Bomba said:

I see, you're still very confused DvDivXXX. It was the very first question asked in this thread. And it took 5 pages to actually confirm that pachinko orbs actually deny you the girl at 8th level.

The only thing I'm confused about right now is whether you're just trolling or genuinely missing the point on all those things at once. Your entire conspiracy theory rant was seemingly in response to my post, but you're talking about completely different things, apart from that pedantic intro with my name in it, followed by a statement of facts I already knew, as evidenced in the very post you've quoted. Get a chill pill, dude. I have better things to do than argue with you for the sake of it, sorry.

1 hour ago, Bomba said:

And developers did respond to this thread and completely avoided that question, which means it was intended.

You mean the one-liner moderation post made by horo kinkoid on page 5, don't you? Somehow, I don't think that a Community Manager asking a player to mind their language on the forum counts as a developer response to this thread... Maybe because horo isn't a dev but a CM, or because that post was simply addressing one player's abusive language and not replying to the topic itself whatsoever... I guess I'd need to borrow your tinfoil hat to see it your way.

[DvDivXXX]

43 minutes ago, LanceHardwood said:

[Very long, detailed post to elaborate on / repeat previous points, and then]
the more people realize it, the more they will start making definitive moves to petition for a change, instead of just hoping this will fix itself. Staying "positive" as you put it, can be deceptively more damaging to player interests.

Once again, I think we misunderstood each other in our previous exchanges, and it's not that important. I wasn't in for a flame war with you, and I still ain't. But I think there's a bigger misunderstanding between us that I didn't foresee before I read the quote above. I'd like to clarify that one here, because it's actually on topic.

I am NOT simply waiting around for the devs to magically correct this issue if I wish for it hard enough in my head, nor am I advising anyone else to do that. I'm actively providing feedback to the devs right here, so that they're made aware that this change to the Champion progression from "some RNG up to level 8 at most" to "pure RNG forever" is UNACCEPTABLE and that it needs to be fixed. I really thought I had made myself pretty clear on that, but in case any doubt was left, there you go.

The fact that I give the devs enough credit to not think they deliberately designed this part of the update this way has nothing to do with it. Whether it's a mistake, a bug, or a poor design decision, the current result is extremely detrimental to anyone who hasn't already collected all champion girls, and that's a terrible change. We need to let them know that, for sure. We do not need to agree on the why or the how to fight back against the what, though.

[Bomba]

3 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

The only thing I'm confused about right now is whether you're just trolling or genuinely missing the point on all those things at once. Your entire conspiracy theory rant was seemingly in response to my post, but you're talking about completely different things, apart from that pedantic intro with my name in it, followed by a statement of facts I already knew, as evidenced in the very post you've quoted. Get a chill pill, dude. I have better things to do than argue with you for the sake of it, sorry.

You mean the one-liner moderation post made by horo kinkoid on page 5, don't you? Somehow, I don't think that a Community Manager asking a player to mind their language on the forum counts as a developer response to this thread... Maybe because horo isn't a dev but a CM, or because that post was simply addressing one player's abusive language and not replying to the topic itself whatsoever... I guess I'd need to borrow your tinfoil hat to see it your way.

I'm not trolling and if I missing the point I hope you help me find it. Here's the first post, where you were confused about the question.

By response I mean Noacc's response on the same first page. With following editing of the patch notes. jaeeger asks the question.

Instead of reply patch notes are edited. Yes, edited status doesn't show for them. As you can see 6 minutes later it's already added to the patch notes.

You speak french, so you can compare patch notes in english by Noacc and in french by Lola and see, that they're different and contain answers.

So yeah, I do believe that's an intended feature. Yet you firmly defend developers, saying that's not what they intended. And that's not some sort of conspiracy theory. I just listed you things they actually done in the past year. And added what I think were the reasons behind it. And I have no idea what you found fishy about it. Because those are really good decisions and implementations from the business perspective. Some of them not as good for every player, but still it's an improvement overall. But I think that this change to Sex Champions that you can't get a guaranteed girl at 8th level is really unreasonable and something should be done about it.

[Тёмный Властелин]

The devs, reading this topic, laugh at you loudly, guys.

Do you really think that by applying to them with your demands they will revert the change with girls drop from the champions? LUL Of course not. It is clear from the very beginning that it was an intentional move to nerf champions. The only thing that can make them revert is falling income (probably), but I don't think that's the case with this change. Quite the opposite. Income is gonna grow.

Edited February 14, 2020 by Тёмный Властелин

[DvDivXXX]

1 hour ago, Bomba said:

I'm not trolling and if I missing the point I hope you help me find it. Here's the first post, where you were confused about the question.

Okay, in retrospect that "confused" emoticon I applied to your initial question wasn't fair (I'm sure I already spelled this out a couple times in the past, but using this emoticon doesn't mean "I am confused"; it's just a way to say "WTF", for me at least). Anyway, I've removed it now. At the time you asked that question, we didn't have much info at all, and I was simply interpreting their "it will NOT reduce your chances to obtain the girl" as well as their " additional drop" mentions in the patch notes as meaning what it should have meant: that you can drop an orb on top of your normal reward, not instead of it. Hence my reaction to your question. However, it turned out that you were right to be cautious and ask the question, because the end result totally did reduce our chances to obtain the girl, and the orb drop is not at all additional... And I was wrong to initially trust the patch notes indeed. Sorry about that (I mean it!).

For the rest, I think you quoted the wrong comment in a couple of cases, and I'm not entirely sold on the patch notes getting edited after the fact, but whatever. I've read them on their website first when the popup appeared in game, and those mentions were already there by then (although they posted them on the forums first, apparently). As for Noacc's post on the first page, it was just about the opposite of a response to our feedback: it was an invitation to post our feedback...

Anyway, it doesn't really matter compared to the main topic, so let's not get side-tracked too much and focus on this together, please. Sorry again for antagonizing you (I thought you were yanking my chain, but it was my mistake), and my bad for getting your initial message wrong.

They've just made a so-called "Orbs FAQ" thread that actually activates my spidey sense, and by now I think it's no longer possible to give them the benefit of the doubt. After everything we detailed in this feedback thread that they're following, posting such misleading crap to "cover most of the questions" cannot be in good faith:

Quote

Q: Will Pachinko Orbs affect the drop rate of Champions? 
A: Before, you could win equipment when you already won the girl and all the rewards at the last stage of each champion. It wasn't good enough. Now, you will be able to win a wonderful Epic Orb each time in order to use the Pachinko.

Q: At what stages can I win Orbs from Champions?
A: Orbs are a final reward for completing a stage like Girl drops and Hero Page items.

WHAT THE HELL?! This conflates two completely different questions together without actually answering the most important one (and the only one that we are actually concerned and actively complaining about). What actually needed to be addressed is this:

Q: Will Pachinko Orbs affect your chances of obtaining a Champion's girl?

A: YES. Before, you had 7 junk items to get out of the way at most before being guaranteed to get the girl. That was too little RNG to our liking. Now, you will be able to win a wonderful "fight the champion's cycle at least one more time, sucker!" orb INSTEAD of the girl, or even instead of one of the 7 original junk items...

No, seriously, @Noacc please stop beating around the bush and at the very least admit clearly what you've done, here.

Edited February 14, 2020 by DvDivXXX

[LanceHardwood]

2 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

Once again, I think we misunderstood each other in our previous exchanges, and it's not that important. I wasn't in for a flame war with you, and I still ain't. But I think there's a bigger misunderstanding between us that I didn't foresee before I read the quote above. I'd like to clarify that one here, because it's actually on topic.

I am NOT simply waiting around for the devs to magically correct this issue if I wish for it hard enough in my head, nor am I advising anyone else to do that. I'm actively providing feedback to the devs right here, so that they're made aware that this change to the Champion progression from "some RNG up to level 8 at most" to "pure RNG forever" is UNACCEPTABLE and that it needs to be fixed. I really thought I had made myself pretty clear on that, but in case any doubt was left, there you go.

The fact that I give the devs enough credit to not think they deliberately designed this part of the update this way has nothing to do with it. Whether it's a mistake, a bug, or a poor design decision, the current result is extremely detrimental to anyone who hasn't already collected all champion girls, and that's a terrible change. We need to let them know that, for sure. We do not need to agree on the why or the how to fight back against the what, though.

I think you have already figured out that your trust was a bit misplaced now. But my point was that, by giving them benefit of the doubt and propagating the belief it's a bug, you are subtly excusing the devs. It gives them the impression that if it's not a bug they don't need to fix it. This is what they're playing to right now with their responses - avoiding to address it directly, because to them it's not a bug and doesn't need to be fixed. But boy will players explode if the devs actually say it out in the open.

And even if your main focus is "champion progression" itself I believe feedback should be given in the correct context - like "this intentional change is detrimental, please reconsider".  This will send a message that players won't stand for nerfs, no matter how minor. Otherwise they will keep doing shadow nerfs, hoping that players won't notice. Honestly the paranoid part of me just got to thinking whether there's another nerf in this patch, that we haven't been able to detect.

[Cantrix]

Wtf why are lower leagues providing better orbs(mythic) while higher ones are providing only epics? I mean in the mythic pachinko you've got a lot more agency, while the epic one has a huge pool of girls (48 in my case). That's nonsensical.

[jaybee]

Hm primarily you have almost no chance to get a girl with mythic orbs (there are different theories if the drop rate is less than 1% or slightly higher but doesn't really matter)
while with Epic orbs you can reasonably expect a drop with around 15 orbs. With 15 Mythic orbs the only reasonable expectation is not getting a girl.

[Daniele]

1 hour ago, Cantrix said:

Wtf why are lower leagues providing better orbs(mythic) while higher ones are providing only epics? I mean in the mythic pachinko you've got a lot more agency, while the epic one has a huge pool of girls (48 in my case). That's nonsensical.

That's only because of your personal choice to completely avoid the girls you don't like, but many players just want to get as many girls as possible.
Personally i would gladly trade all my useless avat... er, mythic orbs with your epic ones

[HentaiHero]

Where's my guaranteed girl for beating the stage 8? Your useless Orbs FAQ does not answer the most frequent question FFS!

[LanceHardwood]

1 hour ago, HentaiHero said:

Where's my guaranteed girl for beating the stage 8? Your useless Orbs FAQ does not answer the most frequent question FFS!

It actually does, if you speak HH dev language. It's answered in a very roundabout way, but here goes:

Quote

Q: Will Pachinko Orbs affect the drop rate of Champions? 
A: Before, you could win items when you already won the girl and all the rewards at the last stage of each champion. It wasn't good enough. Now, you will be able to win a wonderful Epic Orb each time you finish the last stage of one Champion in order to use the Pachinko.

Pay attention to the parts I highlighted in red & blue. They explicitly distinguish between each last stage win (blue) and beating it when all decorations + girl are won (red). So now it becomes evident that each final stage win has the Orb chance, regardless of what rewards you've won before. The answer to your question is that you are no longer guaranteed to obtain the girl for beating the final stage 8 times and this change is intentional.

The confusion comes from the first 2 sentences in the reply, which is info nobody asked about. These seem to be added intentionally as every other question is answered in a focused manner, without inserting unnecessary information. Laughably, even the last sentence doesn't address the question itself. The logical conclusion that they intentionally create confusion is alarming, considering that the impact on Champions is already apparent. If they were buying time while deciding what to do, why risk further backlash with stunt like this ? One possible answer is that will simply continue to avoid addressing the issue directly in the hope that players would get tired of complaining and eventually accept it. At this point I'm starting to hope that @DvDivXXX was right to give them the benefit of doubt, because otherwise this change is here to stay in the worst way possible.

[xxx69]

I'm not worried about the champion level 8 issue because this change reduces the possibility of my getting anywhere near level 8. There are no longer enough "free" tickets to keep ahead of the 24 loss of impression, especially when they impression requirements exceed 10M.  This means I will need to either use energy or kobans. Using energy makes it difficult for me to complete adventures. Using kobans (probably the goal of this change is to force players to buy them) stresses my current purchase strategy using them.

There are couple of ways they could restore the balance without major changes. The ones that come to mind are:

- eliminate the 24 loss of champion impression.

- provide the 3 daily free tickets regardless of how many are currently held.

- increase the probability of tickets as  mission rewards and intermediate arena performance rewards

I'd like to see all 3 changes made.

[Lemus]

That's a tricky topic - to write a FAQ about orbs, but not to answer the main question that worries everyone about the fall of girls from the champions. Even experienced courtesans can not so fast spin ass in front of the client as game developers when it comes to the exact percentage for various random mechanics in games that they love to put where you need to and do not.
It is not in vain in some countries have already introduced laws that would have been for any luthboxes specified the exact percentage of receipt of things, apparently in another way you can not already influence them.

Edited February 15, 2020 by Lemus

[Observer_X]

On 2/13/2020 at 4:28 AM, GeorgeMTO said:

Detriment of many, but not all. There are a significant number of long term players who have way too much ymens to know what to do with. They've also increased the amount of ymens players can gain with the extra stars on the alpha girls, and the new tier system for bosses has raised the income you can gain during events (depending where the bosses go, but FAB has said his next plan now that all the boss alphas are 5 stars is to focus on the rest of the boss tiers for a bit so the others will be coming). With those several increases to what we can obtain that we've had for a while now, it's not completely unfair for them to now scale back in other areas.

I agree with you only partially, due to two simple facts.

First, I have a question for you, as I don't remember what you said it in the past (if you said it at all). Are you a monthly card owner?
If the answer is no, then I have to congratulate you for the (obviously) super efficient way you collect ymens from your 325 girls.
If the answer is yes, then I think you don't have taken into account the relevant difference that the free ymen gather from the harem does in the situation at hand when a player has in his harem a relevant number of girls. Actually I have only 184 girls, and even using grid mode I need nearly five minutes to gather ymens from the full harem. In the past, when the girls were less than 100, i were able to gather ymens every half hour, losing a minimal part of treasure, but with the increasing of the harem size, I was practically bound to gather ymens with the full load (with the exception of Jeanne, and in future, should I get her sooner or later, Golden Bunny, due to their exaggerated reload times): this is due to the fact that the reload times from one ymen value to the next often differs only by a few seconds (and so on like a ladder), and I often found myself held in the harem screen for an hour (and sometimes even more), while I had other matters I could have attended.
Should in the future, in a miraculous momentum of generosity, the devs establish a feasible way (as difficult as it may be) to obtain the free ymen gather permanently (and only that: up to now it has been passed as an accessory advantage, but as I said I don't deem it like that) without a real money monthly fee, I will agree with you fully.

Regarding the money obtained from villains, you may have forgot another fact: raising the villains level to increase the ymen outcome to a decent amount, unless one start to refill combativity with that purpose (and I can hardly imagine players doing so), it is a process that requires time, but, simply put, we had the orbs feature introduced now. In the future, when the majority of long term players will have all the villains leveled up to Tier 3, I will be able to fully agree with you on this, but for now the two things I mentioned in my humble opinion make the orbs feature almost completely unfair.