Chit Chat

[Zamio]

we get so many girls these days, I didn't realise I've crossed 500 as well. That should be about 4-5 days ago

 

[MisterCat]

Okay, [Mod edit: am I the only one hoping to see] a little Carrot on Carrot play?  I mean how hot would Alice and Louise be together?  For that matter, the entire Carrot family would be a really great read.

 

 

 

Here's hopping!

Edited April 11, 2021 by DvDivXXX
Mod edit: Rephrased the intro to avoid spoilers

[DvDivXXX]

8 hours ago, MisterCat said:

I mean how hot would Alice and Louise be together?  For that matter, the entire Carrot family would be a really great read.

You're not the only one, and that's one of many kinks I've always expected to see in this game but Kinkoid never really went for. Incest is a super common fetish in porn, and fairly widespread in hentai, but it's always a bit weird due to very specific bullshit from one country.

The US' extremely stupid and misguided anti-incest laws are scaring the shit out of many people in the porn industry. It's kind of mind-boggling really, because it's a very common porn niche even in filmed porn. Both the "roleplay" ersatz where you just have for instance two completely unrelated actresses pretending to be sisters to play out the fantasy, and the real thing too, but always only kind of teasing or playing around the US legislation specifically, even though that's one country and they don't own the Internet (although some of them think they do).

So you have tons and tons of real-life twins shooting porn scenes together, for instance, and that's hugely popular. But they're super careful to only do stuff that technically doesn't break the oddly specific list of things US citizens are not allowed to watch... They're still naked together and having sex, but they don't cross this or that specific line that only specific entities in one country give a rat's ass about.

Having said all that, if Kinkoid is refraining from having incest in their game for that reason, they shouldn't. Because while there have been many instances of companies who shoot porn with real-life related actors getting bullied by the US over this, I have yet to hear about a single case where people got in trouble for drawings of fictional characters.

Other than that, maybe it's just something they're afraid might get the pitchforks out, just like a girl using a strapon on a guy, or anything that strays a few centimetres away from the tried, true, and insanely boring "men fuck girls in every hole / girls love semen / all girls are bisexual / all guys are insecure heterosexuals" formula... Either way, I'm not confident we'll get to see the proper motherly and sisterly love fantasy that kind of was the first thing that came to mind when I read "Bunny's mother" on the wiki.

[MisterCat]

DvDivXXX, good thoughts on the why.  Though I wonder if Hentai Heroes (and various alternate name of the same content on different services) has a mostly US audience?  Looking at the player flags, it would seem not, or at least not to a overwhelming extent. 

However,I would expect that most financial transactions are handled by US companies, and they can be complete dunderheads when it comes to processing $$$ for adult content companies.  So I see why the US legal framework could have an outsized influence.

But I really hope not, cause for whatever reason the fantasies about Bunny and family have wormed their way into my pysche.  Maybe they could do a KickStarter or Patreon project if it's not doable as a Kinkoid content.

 

PS  Golden Bunny on Hari with her celestial toys is my current favorite pairing.  Golden Bunny is like a perfect angelic sex teacher for Hari.

Edited April 12, 2021 by MisterCat
Added PS

[Bomba]

Hey guys, I though that they lack quality artists and that's why we receive a subpar girls quite often. But it seems they do have them and we just weren't worth it.

Just look at this:

And they give us Anniversary Shina and Kryll instead. Look at this quality, compare and despair :

 

[Kenrae]

I don't see a problem with the second drawing...

[jelom]

@Bomba Yes, some images of the art in the book will be better than in the game, for a variety of reasons, the main is that an ilustration book need those high quality images to be sold. The book cannot be just a copy/paste from the game, it has to add something better to the experience of the game, and the artists have less constraints of time and image size or style.

I know that your point is telling us that the quality drawing of some girls in the game was subpar some time ago, but it has improved in the last months. 

[Bomba]

1 hour ago, Kenrae said:

I don't see a problem with the second drawing...

Kenrae, blink twice if they held you hostage.

10 minutes ago, jelom said:

@Bomba Yes, some images of the art in the book will be better than in the game, for a variety of reasons, the main is that an ilustration book need those high quality images to be sold. The book cannot be just a copy/paste from the game, it has to add something better to the experience of the game, and the artists have less constraints of time and image size or style.

I know that your point is telling us that the quality drawing of some girls in the game was subpar some time ago, but it has improved in the last months. 

Not quite, but extremely close. I just wanted to remind that long ago in the past there were events like "Magical Girls 2019" with Cori, Anita, Alana, etc and each and every one of them was drawn at the highest quality. And we haven't seen that quality since then. There was a huge part of the last year when the quality dropped significantly and yeah, it improved since then, but haven't yet reached the point of quality that was before that. Well, at least in my opinion. And now I see this beautiful art for the book and can't help but ask why they didn't add that quality to the game.

Also, I now have a whole cart with pitchforks and torches here. There's Rabbi's ranch for pitchforks, but what am I supposed to do with all these torches?

[GeorgeMTO]

@Bomba yeah, that looks like some of Ben's art that he works on for his own desires that he'll often post in the French discord server. The difference as has been explained to us before, is when he's free to work to his own pace, he only posts the finished products (sometimes WIP), but well, working for a paycheque involves deadlines. I wouldn't be surprised if he spent more time on that one image than he spends on multiple girls. Art involves both time and money, and when you're free to slowly correct, you'll obviously end up with better artwork. Here's FAB Kinkoid's exact words on it in the past:

But as has been said in previous discussions about artwork, Ben himself chose to reduce how much work he's doing for Kinkoid. He's not interested in doing the amount of work he was in the past, so other artists have to get hired. Going further just retreads the old discussions and won't change anyone's mind though.

[DvDivXXX]

Pretty much what Jelom and George said. @Bomba I can see where you're coming from, but try to be a little more positive, would you? Maybe focus on the good news that the art book looks very promising, that it received a ton of support and that's great for the game in general. It's not healthy to keep beating a dead horse like remaining bad art they have yet to rework (and they might get to that eventually, don't forget the amazing stuff that replaced the Circus horror show or Holiday, for instance). And it's kind of depressing that this is the first thing you decide to say about the great stuff happening now.

[Kenrae]

10 hours ago, Bomba said:

Kenrae, blink twice if they held you hostage.

Prefering the first image (which I do, of course) is one thing. But between amazing and crappy there are many in betweens. I don't see a problem with the second image.

[Bomba]

Guys, guys. I'm pretty passionate about this issue, yes, but I'm also quite chill. Although I admit, I'm salty after what they did that thing with my dear Lapsey and may not have been clear about things I'm passionate about.

So, @GeorgeMTO. I heard that justification too many times and yes, it's the case. But I see exactly that justification as current problem. We have 9 events in a month now. Nine! Nein! And that's 8(Classic) + 1(Mythic) + 2(Cumpetition x2) + 1-2(epic/legendary) + 2(orgy) + 1(leg.contests) + 4(PoA) + 2(Season) = 21-22 girls a month. I think that's too much. Both events and girls. And I think that exactly those numbers and deadlines affect the art and they're the core problem. Yeah, the art is passable right now with quite few good and even few awesome girls, but there's still quite a few bad ones. And the thing is, Kinkoid seems pretty adamant about keeping the bad ones. The 1-star girls, the clicker girls. They're there exactly because Kinkoid wants more girls in this game and ready sacrifice quality for quantity. They're pretty bad at communicating, but so far they communicate exactly that idea. And I oppose this idea with all my heart. I think it's better to have few of higher quality than many of lower quality.
And honestly, I think I tried to say something along these lines with the first message, but I wasn't quite there yet. I was a bit upset seeing that they're capable of that level of art, but not using it for the game. And the reasons you mentioned are exactly those reasons that are stopping them from doing that. And I don't think it should be used as a justification here.

@DvDivXXX, that's where we don't see eye to eye. You look at everything Kinkoid has done so far and you "stay positive". And you say that they did something for a good reason or that they will not do something like that again, etc. Maybe. But at this point I don't believe that anymore and honestly, I kinda envy your attitude about it. Also, I don't know why or how the art book could be great for the game. For now I see it as another exclusive reward that they want people to pay for. Yeah, I really don't like this approach towards art where it's heavily related to money-making. Kinda the same about science related things too. But that's a different topic.
Oh, right. Those amazing redraws. That's another thing that I noticed in mainstream media. For a company to release something bad, then fixed it and be praised for how well they fixed it instead of releasing it in the good state from the first place. I know that it's not the case here.. probably. But still I think it's better to tune down the girl printing machine and focus more on quality. Cause I honestly think that art isn't something that should be confined that much by deadlines and all that nonsense. I just don't think it should work that way with art, like it does in the modern production. Just ramp up the art to the point where you can sell it, copy, paste and that's it. Is that how it's supposed to work? 

Which leads me to the salty part. Lapsey. Not only they still didn't give her an avatar, they also stole her signature pose and gave it to Notorious Barrel. They do reuse poses sometimes and that's one of the reason I talk about "printing girls" where they use the same pose and just change few things here and there so it wouldn't look exactly the same, but here... Here they did that to my Lapsey. And they did so without any prompting. I mean they even copied the shackles on her ankles even though she doesn't have them in previous poses. And everything, everything is exactly the same with just slightly different coloring. That's.. that's unfair.

And now we're back to my old posts where you have to scroll a lot. Sorry about that.

12 hours ago, Kenrae said:

Prefering the first image (which I do, of course) is one thing. But between amazing and crappy there are many in betweens. I don't see a problem with the second image.

Just to clarify. I'm talking about the way she's drawn, the overall quality of art, not the girl itself. And I think it's bad because it's ... absolutely basic. Don't know how to say it in any other way. Like the color job, the lack of proper details, that sort of stuff. I mean, I don't define bad as the one that makes my eyes bleed. I define bad as a comparison to their usual level of art. Well, old usual level of art. So I'm still taking your "I don't see a problem with it" as a very similar point of view as mine, but maybe I'm wrong.

[DvDivXXX]

On 4/14/2021 at 2:01 AM, Bomba said:

I don't know why or how the art book could be great for the game.

You don't, really? Well, it's basic economics. When a game launches a Kickstarter for a goodie and it explodes way past their initial target long before the deadline, it shows that there's a lot of interest and support (including financial support, which also translates to paying customers) for this game. It's good for the game because it's still viable and making money, and might even keep growing further on that front.

I wasn't referring to any specific feature or improvement in the game itself, but more big picture than that.

  

On 4/14/2021 at 2:01 AM, Bomba said:

Which leads me to the salty part. Lapsey. Not only they still didn't give her an avatar, they also stole her signature pose and gave it to Notorious Barrel. They do reuse poses sometimes and that's one of the reason I talk about "printing girls" where they use the same pose and just change few things here and there so it wouldn't look exactly the same, but here... Here they did that to my Lapsey. And they did so without any prompting. I mean they even copied the shackles on her ankles even though she doesn't have them in previous poses. And everything, everything is exactly the same with just slightly different coloring. That's.. that's unfair.

Yeah, they traced old drawings many times in the past, and it had been a while since I noticed a case that obvious, at least. The last time was for Petal's 1st affection scene -> Ctrl+C -> Carnival Akama's 3rd affection scene -> Ctrl+V. And I'm strongly against this practice, even more so than subpar but original art. But it's just one lazy thing they do every now and then almost certainly to get around a deadline. Don't wrap your entire perspective of the game and where it's going around that.

Edited April 15, 2021 by DvDivXXX
updated

[Kenrae]

I've just had an impossible result against a charm player according to the script. Could they have broken it again? 🤔

[GeorgeMTO]

11 minutes ago, Kenrae said:

I've just had an impossible result against a charm player according to the script. Could they have broken it again? 🤔

I think I've been overwhelmed by the level of detail in this question. Could you try being less descriptive of the issue? /s

[Kenrae]

33 minutes ago, GeorgeMTO said:

I think I've been overwhelmed by the level of detail in this question. Could you try being less descriptive of the issue? /s

Just as I am overwhelmed by the usefulness of your comment 🙄

Nothing special, just waiting to see if more people notice something off. I finished a battle with more than 40k points less than the theoretical minimum, even with extreme bad luck with judges (and that's with the perfect judge against that opponent) it should be impossible. And I know the first pose wasn't the opponent's.

[mates]

I've already said it in the other thread, but it also happend to me few times this week. So I guess it's not a charm thing.

[GeorgeMTO]

17 minutes ago, Kenrae said:

Just as I am overwhelmed by the usefulness of your comment 🙄

Nothing special, just waiting to see if more people notice something off. I finished a battle with more than 40k points less than the theoretical minimum, even with extreme bad luck with judges (and that's with the perfect judge against that opponent) it should be impossible. And I know the first pose wasn't the opponent's.

I was simply pointing out that you'd provided nowhere near enough information for anyone to actually help you. Seeing as it then got you to give out details of what you'd actually noticed, my comment was quite useful.

The Sim has always been a best estimate. Sometimes you happen to battle them just as their stats update, sometimes the judge completely fucks you over. Depending on the exact situation of the opponent, it's entirely possible for their to be a bunch of extra damage, especially if they do something like say wild burst orgasm with matching pose.

[DvDivXXX]

1 hour ago, Kenrae said:

against a charm player according to the script. Could they have broken it again?

Another thing to consider here is that CH has been... different for quite awhile, and we never had tangible and clear details on what changed at various times. I remember that @_shal_ made a bunch of tests and came to a rather solid conclusion of just how much extra buff the initial CH crit bug(s) gave to the class on top of what Kinkoid had intentionally done to increase its power level back then. Since then, it's been retouched at least twice, including once specifically to try and remove or at least reduce the unintended extra buff. But there are still bugs to this day, and the class is still stronger than it's supposed to be, and I've kind of lost track. I know that off the record it's been claimed at some point that "it's not a bug, it's a feature" of one of the CH buffs, presumably in the good old "if you can't fix a bug, make it a feature" game design tradition.

@Tom208 has adjusted the HH++ script's simulation versus CH players specifically at least a couple of times, to try and mitigate how off the predictions had become after all this chaos. He got it down to something close enough to how reliable the predictions are when facing the other two classes. But it's still a little less reliable, simply because we don't quite know exactly how it currently works like we do for the other two classes.

Edit: TL;DR The prediction is always the worst case scenario we know of in general, but when facing CH, it's good practice to add a pinch of salt to that compared to the other two.

Edited April 15, 2021 by DvDivXXX
updated

[Bomba]

6 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

You don't, really? Well, it's basic economics. When a game launches a Kickstarter for a goodie and it explodes way past their initial target long before the deadline, it shows that there's a lot of interest and support (including financial support, which also translates to paying customers) for this game. It's good for the game because it's still viable and making money, and might even keep growing further on that front.

I wasn't referring to any specific feature or improvement in the game itself, but more big picture than that.

Do you mean, from the point of selling game-related merchandise ? Or that it's just means that if it sells then it means that the game is still profitable to them? I kinda want to discuss it further. Cause at first I saw it only in a bad light. Their first announcement was more about "hey guys, do you want more exclusive stuff in hentaiheroes? buy this stuff" with a lot of offers of bonus kobans and other resources. So I didn't like that route. But now when we started to talk about it I realised that on another hand, if they shift the focus of money-making from selling in-game items to selling the game-related merchandise then I think it will be really healthy for the game. It will remove all those bad things they did to just squeeze more money. Well, maybe not remove, but at least tune it down in the future. And that is a very good prospect indeed. But there's still an issue of the quality of art. What they do in game right now isn't worth to be printed. At least in my opinion. So maybe that will change as well. And that does sound very promising.

6 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

Yeah, they traced old drawings many times in the past, and it had been a while since I noticed a case that obvious, at least. The last time was for Petal's 1st affection scene -> Ctrl+C -> Carnival Akama's 3rd affection scene -> Ctrl+V. And I'm strongly against this practice, even more so than subpar but original art. But it's just one lazy thing they do every now and then almost certainly to get around a deadline. Don't wrap your entire perspective of the game and where it's going around that.

Oh, they even do that in affection scenes... damn. I only noticed it in poses. But look at you, it seems like you can actually access harem and look at all those poses and scenes. For me, it's easier to just check all those directly, cause it's faster than waiting for harem to load. So yeah, it's not just that thing that I'm wrapping my perspective around. It's the fact that a lot of gameplay elements right now are broken. Harem isn't accessible. One of game's 3 classes doesn't work like it should. Champions are useless beyond getting the girls. Tons of non-stop events with a very short duration, where you have to do everything at a pace that's not comfortable for me. Bad art. 1-star girls. Mythic girls. I mean, the list is pretty big. And on top of all that they also did that to my favourite Lapsey?! Come on, man. It's more like the last straw than the only thing. And I think you know it.

1 hour ago, Kenrae said:

I've just had an impossible result against a charm player according to the script. Could they have broken it again? 🤔

There're so many things wrong with Charm. That I have no idea what you are talking about. I even saw other players who build their teams around few of those aspects. Although, if you're talking about the last 2 days and League. Then something is strange. I feel like a lot of players didn't get enough points. And I mean hundreds of points. Not sure what the cause is though. For now I attribute the to that bug from patch notes that didn't allow people to log in.

Edited April 15, 2021 by Bomba
spelling

[DvDivXXX]

@Bomba

1. Yeah, pretty much what I was getting at. Put more simply, Kinkoid's financial success is good for the game, because being financially viable for an online game simply means staying alive. And making more money means being not only alive, but in good shape, and capable of doing more and better things.
    
2. It's not just that thing about Lapsey I had in mind either, and you know that, man. You've been a tidbit pessimistic about those things for awhile now, and while I was right there with you especially about art quality and consistency a year ago, I feel like you're a bit too harsh now, because that aspect has really improved a ton since then, even if it can still improve overall, and varies here and there. There were also a lot of great additions and changes that you don't seem to appreciate as much as I do, and it looks to be because you're focusing a bit too much on the negative changes and the sorely lacking improvements they have yet to make (like a solid, simple and responsive feature to watch your hard-earned pretty pictures, indeed, or proper PvP balance).
   
   I'm not an oblivious fanboy, though, I'm mostly optimistic because I feel the game and the team behind it are getting better over time in the big picture. I'm still very critical of things that I don't feel are on par (yet), but I acknowledge the great stuff too.

Edited April 15, 2021 by DvDivXXX

[Bomba]

17 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

@Bomba

1. Yeah, pretty much what I was getting at. Put more simply, Kinkoid's financial success is good for the game, because being financially viable for an online game simply means staying alive. And making more money means being not only alive, but in good shape, and capable of doing more and better things.

I see your point fully now. Still have some concerns with how they will handle it, but it's a good prospect.

23 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

1. It's not just that thing about Lapsey I had in mind either, and you know that, man. You've been a tidbit pessimistic about those things for awhile now, and while I was right there with you especially about art quality and consistency a year ago, I feel like you're a bit too harsh now, because that aspect has really improved a ton since then, even if it can still improve overall, and varies here and there. There were also a lot of great additions and changes that you don't seem to appreciate as much as I do, and it looks to be because you're focusing a bit too much on the negative changes and the sorely lacking improvements they have yet to make (like a solid, simple and responsive feature to watch your hard-earned pretty pictures, indeed, or proper PvP balance).
   
   I'm not an oblivious fanboy, though, I'm mostly optimistic because I feel the game and the team behind it are getting better over time in the big picture. I'm still very critical of things that I don't feel are on par (yet), but I acknowledge the great stuff too.

Well, as GeorgeMTO once said, people don't come to forum when everything's good and working, they come here to complain. I'm not really an exception. I just don't have that much energy anymore and it's more healthy for me to sometimes vent about those bits of this game that give me stress. I do enjoy the good things and that's kinda why I'm here. And I think you're right, I should express it and talk about the good things more.

[jelom]

2 hours ago, Bomba said:

people don't come to forum when everything's good and working

Yes, they do.

[Bomba]

26 minutes ago, jelom said:

Yes, they do.

Okay, I might have got that part of the quote wrong. 

[DvDivXXX]

Quote aside, this is a very common trait anyone working in customer support knows all too well. Most people are far more likely to make the effort to contact you or, sadly, to give feedback (including filling out surveys and stuff like that) when they're unhappy than when everything's great.

It's to the point that a lot of companies just discount any feedback form with the minimum score (and, unfortunately for their staff, they also often use that as an excuse to discount those with the maximum score, although we typically receive ten times less, and they're much more often genuine). I've literally seen people fill out the feedback form right after we completely solved their issue in a timely and friendly manner, and gave them a generous compensation on top, and still pick 0 as the answer to every question... Just because they were still pissed off from having had the problem in the first place. Conversely, it's not uncommon for a customer to start their next complaint by thanking you for how sweet and helpful you were for the first one... But at the time, they're just eager to go back to enjoying your product, so they don't feel like taking an extra minute to help you get a raise (or no penalty on your quarter review or whatever).

There's definitely something of that nature on any forum, except for most regulars, who tend to bond and form a community of their own, and stick around more. But the very first post someone makes is more often a complaint than a "hey! just wanted to say thanks for everything". ^^