[ 07-Dec-20 ] Mythic Days - Discussion

[windia]

1 minute ago, Arvelak said:

I'm wondering how they will word the survey to try to avoid criticism this time, considering a recent survey on the first season had a scale ranging from "I don't understand" to "I love it" since hating it wasn't an option? 🤔

well,hate is never an option.

make peace not war.

dislike, oppose. no hate.

[blaa]

8 hours ago, GeorgeMTO said:

It's around 1 girl every 15 orbs, so I'd say this should be 1 girl, not 2.

Right, somehow i mistook 7,5/100 for 7,5 orbs. So it's only one and a half girl. And it also seems that my EpP orb drops were a little bit better than average. So basically yes, only 1 girl.

6 hours ago, Baycastle said:

Also, isn't the drop rate with Mythic orbs 0,5%? So about 2 girls, not 8.

Not sure what your source is, but i always thought it's 2%, like people calculated in the early days in mythic pachinko post. Cant find any other info about it, so would appreciate you would share your insights.

But still, my math was wrong. it's only a little bit over 4, maybe 4 1/2 girls. Still a reasonable price in total.

Edit: Then again, taking into account that maybe my 140 mythic orbs were average, you may get close to 5 girls in average. But not gonna lie, i dont think the event is too costly for what you get, i dont like other parts of it though.

Edited December 9, 2020 by blaa

[Eman]

hace 10 horas, blaa dijo:

even though I agree to most of the criticism, I just have to point out: Besides Bunna I also got over 100 Mythic orbs and 17 pachinko orbs: For 100 Mythic orbs (round up) I got 2 former epic pachinko only event girls (not sure what the average is, but in the last 400 orbs or so I got 8 girls), 17 EpPx1 orbs should be also 2 girls in average. Basically I paid 3000 nubans and got 5 girls: one of them is the newest and hottest shit in town, and 4 of them with a worth of 3600 nubans. And honestly that looks like a fair price to me.

Just for the sake of the argument: Let's say Bunna would have been in the EP for a 900 roll (and I would have gotten her right away), that's still 600 nubans for one girl, looks like a usual LD price to me.

Your point is flawed because the Epic Pachinko orbs are always available from any villain, and the Myhtic ones also appeared in trhe rest of the bosses (I got a few fighting Nike).

Therefore, no, you didn't spend 300 nubans for 5 girls, you spend them just to get Bunna. The rest could be obtained fighting any other villain.

[Lemus]

The last batch of shards was never taken to the end. This means that everyone who could and wanted to get the girl got it. And this, in my opinion, is a kind of success.

And in general, I will say that for me personally, the event as such left a more positive reaction. Let me explain why.

First, about the price. Yes, it's expensive. But whatever one may say, this is the top content of the game, so to speak, the top, at the moment, it is supposed to be expensive. But at the same time, the price is not exorbitant, it is relatively painlessly achievable for both donors and ftp players who set themselves the goal of getting a top girl as an alpha to the battle team. It will take a couple of months to save, yes, but in general I think it's all achievable.

For me personally, now there is a goal in the game - to collect all the mythical girls in the harem. Recently, making calculations for the battles in the tower, I caught myself thinking that I probably shouldn't bother so much, there is nowhere to spend what I got. Now there will be where to spend. For players below a level, the goal may simply be to get the alpha for their class. For this, you may have to not spend gold in other events, but as I wrote above, the goal is quite achievable, although without donation it is not so simple.

The girl herself, as such, is not some kind of ultimate weapon. I won't even talk about the seasons, a lot has been said about their mechanics and the essence is such that to collect all the monthly prizes, there is enough of an adequate team of girls, even from the starting or common ones, and this is enough to get all the monthly prizes, and with additional kisses from the tower and from the champions, there will be no problems at all. As for the tower, it will have the greatest influence on the d3 league, and on the top 15, there will be a cut, but everything below all this will affect much less, and tankers in the lower leagues in general, all this will be indifferent.

Well, and the last positive thing I can note - I was afraid that there would be more lags in the game as it was with the LC, because binding the game action to a specific time (when the shards are added) will create peak server loads. But no, it never happened. I got the girl on the evening of the first day when all the shards were taken in half an hour, all I noticed was that the carrots were spinning a couple of milliseconds longer than usual, but this was not at all critical, and there were no server errors at all. And this is good.

[_shal_]

2 hours ago, Eman said:

Your point is flawed because the Epic Pachinko orbs are always available from any villain, and the Myhtic ones also appeared in trhe rest of the bosses (I got a few fighting Nike).

Therefore, no, you didn't spend 300 nubans for 5 girls, you spend them just to get Bunna. The rest could be obtained fighting any other villain.

Sorry, but blaa is perfectly correct, considering he would have had to spend the same kobans to battle another villain as well if he had wanted to get that amount of orbs from them.

Edited December 9, 2020 by _shal_

[Eman]

hace 33 minutos, _shal_ dijo:

Sorry, but blaa is perfectly correct, considering he would have had to spend the same kobans to battle another villain as well if he had wanted to get that amount of orbs from them.

We'll have to agree to disagree here. If he had spend the same amount of battles on any other boss, he would have been able to get those Mythic and Epic Pachinko orbs as well, so the main goal of battling Gruntt was to get the new girl.

Justify the expense of those nubans using those orbs that could be obtained anywhere else is an attempt to please his mind for spending so much.

[_shal_]

27 minutes ago, Eman said:

Justify the expense of those nubans using those orbs that could be obtained anywhere else is an attempt to please his mind for spending so much.

The only two scenarios to consider here are:

1) Spend a large amount of kobans to go after Bunna, and collect a ton of orbs worth (on average) several more girls along the way.

2) Ignore Mythic Days, spend 0 kobans and collect 0 girls both directly and indirectly.

There is no actual scenario in which it was even possible to spend kobans for Bunna only. It's not about "pleasing his mind" at all, it's about making an informed decision taking into account all the spending and all the returns.

I can't help but get the impression that the large price tag of 15-20k kobans / 2.5-3.5k nubans made you make up your mind from the start and not even consider the possibility that it might be worthwhile to do for people who can afford it.

Would blaa, I and others like us randomly dump that same amount of kobans into a boss just to get orbs? Of course not. We're saving up exactly for opportunities like Mythic Days, where time-limited girls are available on top of the "normal" rewards.

All that does not mean that I was actually happy with how the event worked. The limited shards pool idea sucks hard, and the unannounced surprise of a lower drop rate than the usual 10% wasn't much better. But another incentive to do more boss battles for girls? Ever since epic orbs were added to them, that's very, very, welcome in my book.

Edited December 9, 2020 by _shal_

[jelom]

About the drop rate for Bunna, I will link to the estimation of 7,37% made in the dedicated thread

 

[Eman]

hace 3 minutos, _shal_ dijo:

The only two scenarios to consider here are:

1) Spend a large amount of kobans to go after Bunna, and collect a ton of orbs worth (on average) several more girls along the way.

2) Ignore Mythic Days, spend 0 kobans and collect 0 girls both directly and indirectly.

There is no actual scenario in which it was even possible to spend kobans for Bunna only. It's not about "pleasing his mind" at all, it's about making an informed decision taking into account all the spending and all the returns.

I can't help but get the impression that the large price tag of 15-20k kobans / 2.5-3.5k nubans made you make up your mind from the start and not even consider the possibility that it might be worthwhile to do for people who can afford it.

Would blaa, I and others like us randomly dump that same amount of kobans into a boss just to get orbs? Of course not. We're saving up exactly for opportunities like Mythic Days, where time-limited girls are available on top of the "normal" rewards.

(All that does not mean that I was actually happy with how the event worked. The limited shard pool idea sucks hard.)

What I'm trying to say is that he did it for Bunna. The rest is of the girls he's gotten are added bonus that weren't guaranteed at all. There's been times were I've spend 17 EP orbs and didn't get a single girl, yet he got two. Next time he could be less lucky. Which is why I'm saying that justifiying the expense with the rest of the prizes he got is flawed, and will vary from player to player.

The price tag didn't meant anyhting to me because I didn't know it was that much until later, when I read posts from other players telling how much they had spend. My problem with this event was when it's been done and how. And, unless those things change, I'm not going to bother playing it.

[_shal_]

22 minutes ago, Eman said:

What I'm trying to say is that he did it for Bunna. The rest is of the girls he's gotten are added bonus that weren't guaranteed at all. There's been times were I've spend 17 EP orbs and didn't get a single girl, yet he got two. Next time he could be less lucky. Which is why I'm saying that justifiying the expense with the rest of the prizes he got is flawed, and will vary from player to player.

It's not about guaranteed rewards at all. We know that there's luck involved with turning orbs into girls, but in the long run, more orbs = more girls. I collected 26 epic orbs from this Mythic Days, and I don't particularly care if I get 5 girls or 0 from them. But I know that, if I keep doing this every month, I'm very likely to get close to the long-run average of 1 girl per 15 orbs, so eventually each Mythic Days will be worth about 1.5 to 2 girls to me from the Epic orbs alone.* Or more specifically, it will save me kobans I would otherwise end up spending on x10 rolls to get those same girls at some point.

(I'm ignoring the Mythic orbs in my personal accounting since I have much fewer opportunities to use those than blaa does.)

* Edit: Okay, maybe more like 1-1.5 girls, since the 26 orb drops were probably on the lucky side themselves, and I don't expect to replicate that next month.

Edited December 9, 2020 by _shal_

[DHarry]

Just now, jelom said:

and at the end there where shards left ...

I somehow think this will not happen with the KH girl. And of course the 'lesson' KK will take from this is that they gave us too many shards. Expect mayhem. 😅

[Jan Red Dragon]

hace 1 hora, DHarry dijo:

I somehow think this will not happen with the KH girl. And of course the 'lesson' KK will take from this is that they gave us too many shards. Expect mayhem. 😅

What do you say ?? 

 I understand and 3000 more players is that we did not play because it was a very expensive event and we did not win enough, ... and that I pay for everything

[Zamio]

wonder if this can be an excuse to add to the next girl next month.😅

short of target. 126 more KH girls available. which could actually be needed, as there will be more interest/preparedness.

 

[Karyia]

10 hours ago, Lemus said:

This means that everyone who could and wanted to get the girl got it. 

I would say this is a wrong assumption.

Of course, it's just a possibility but what probably happened is that people had too few shards and the cost is definitely not worth the effort/investment, when the odds of success are so low or impossible.

The concept of shards and rates is also disappearing, IMO. 

There's no shards here, you have to have 100 successful hits. The shards concept only enter in limiting availability here.

And the rate, apparently, is different from the rest of the game and unannounced, so it's really up in the air what is right or wrong.

I could, didn't really wanted (I loath the design) but I'm sure more could, wanted but decided not to (some of us do have to manage their resources, after all).

 

10 hours ago, Lemus said:

First, about the price. Yes, it's expensive. But whatever one may say, this is the top content of the game, so to speak, the top, at the moment, it is supposed to be expensive. But at the same time, the price is not exorbitant, it is relatively painlessly achievable for both donors and ftp players who set themselves the goal of getting a top girl as an alpha to the battle team. It will take a couple of months to save, yes, but in general I think it's all achievable.

Of course, it's exorbitant. I assume you're just in a different stage of the game with tons of resources.

Now, if you say that the event is rather accessible for veteran/long time players? Sure, totally agree. For everyone else? Not really, unless you either sacrifice pretty much everything else or you invest hard. Neither is "relatively painlessly", IMO. 

 

10 hours ago, Lemus said:

The girl herself, as such, is not some kind of ultimate weapon.

This is exactly the point. Why the (so) heavy price tag then? She's ~ 12% (or so) better but 400% (or so) more expensive? Seriously? Monthly??? Ouch!

And the "limited" shard system is there just to ensure that not everyone can collect the girl, on one side, and to ensure mass hysteria in rushing for it, on the other. If not that, players would just take their good time to get it. On a positive note, this can ensure more unique battle teams going forward as the un-elite players will not have all/most of the girls as usual. 

 

It might seem I'm just criticising what you said, which I am in a way, but not in an negative way 😅  

Just trying to provide a different point of view here 👍

Also, on the next event, and seeing how some players will try to lower their costs, I'm wondering how the first "auctions" will go.

I'll just add that the cost of the "perform 10 battles" should be off/lowered/residual in this specific event.

[AmberLaTerra]

7 minutes ago, Karyia said:

I would say this is a wrong assumption.

Of course, it's just a possibility but what probably happened is that people had too few shards and the cost is definitely not worth the effort/investment, when the odds of success are so low or impossible.

The concept of shards and rates is also disappearing, IMO. 

There's no shards here, you have to have 100 successful hits. The shards concept only enter in limiting availability here.

And the rate, apparently, is different from the rest of the game and unannounced, so it's really up in the air what is right or wrong.

I could, didn't really wanted (I loath the design) but I'm sure more could, wanted but decided not to (some of us do have to manage their resources, after all).

 

Of course, it's exorbitant. I assume you're just in a different stage of the game with tons of resources.

Now, if you say that the event is rather accessible for veteran/long time players? Sure, totally agree. For everyone else? Not really, unless you either sacrifice pretty much everything else or you invest hard. Neither is "relatively painlessly", IMO. 

 

This is exactly the point. Why the (so) heavy price tag then? She's ~ 12% (or so) better but 400% (or so) more expensive? Seriously? Monthly??? Ouch!

And the "limited" shard system is there just to ensure that not everyone can collect the girl, on one side, and to ensure mass hysteria in rushing for it, on the other. If not that, players would just take their good time to get it. On a positive note, this can ensure more unique battle teams going forward as the un-elite players will not have all/most of the girls as usual. 

 

It might seem I'm just criticising what you said, which I am in a way, but not in an negative way 😅  

Just trying to provide a different point of view here 👍

Also, on the next event, and seeing how some players will try to lower their costs, I'm wondering how the first "auctions" will go.

I'll just add that the cost of the "perform 10 battles" should be off/lowered/residual in this specific event.

I had planned to reply to that post myself but you pretty much summed it up well.   I would like to add however I am one who did want the girl and just gave up when I saw what it would cost.  I have been out of work due to covid having my job shut down for 10 months now so I do not exactly have the option as Lemes put it, and not being a "top" level who can regularly finish top 4 in D3 what takes him a "couple months" to earn in free kobans takes an average player like me a year to earn. 

This more or less just shows even more strongly how broken the rewards for the leagues are, and how out of touch with the average player many of the big fish who always at the top are.  As well as how out of touch the devs seem to be on the financial situation many players are facing during a global pandemic with the recent additions of more and more content that to keep up with everything forces spending many cannot afford even if they want to.

I am sorry but no matter how much I want a girl in a digital porn game, it is not more important then having food on the table, or paying rent, and in no way something that can be done without spending on a monthly new form of event for anyone outside the select few always top 4 d3 league sharks. 

[GeorgeMTO]

26 minutes ago, Karyia said:

Of course, it's just a possibility but what probably happened is that people had too few shards and the cost is definitely not worth the effort/investment, when the odds of success are so low or impossible

I think you've interpreted could differently from me. The way I read it (partially affected by things I've said elsewhere), is that everyone who had the resources and was willing to use them, got the girl. Because there was shards left over, everyone who doesn't have the girl made the conscious decision to not go for her in some way. Whether that was because it'd cost too much resources, they had no resources left, or they simply didn't want the girl. But there wasn't a player who got to 99, was attempting to get that last shard and someone else took that away from them.

[Lemus]

1 hour ago, Karyia said:

I would say this is a wrong assumption.

"Wanted and could" is exactly what I mean. You bought / accumulated about 20k gold and you are determined to get a girl. Most of all, I was afraid that a "circus with horses" would begin when for each shard it would be necessary to fight as if against the Germans at Stalingrad, all six reinforcements would rush into the game on an alarm clock and furiously hammer the button cursing everything around. But this did not happen, I am therefore glad that such nonsense did not happen.

1 hour ago, Karyia said:

This is exactly the point. Why the (so) heavy price tag then? She's ~ 12% (or so) better but 400% (or so) more expensive? Seriously? Monthly??? Ouch!

Now about the price and strength of the girl. Now, if there was a linear relationship, that would be a failure. The mythical girl costs about three times more than the legendary 5 stars. Now, if they made her three times stronger, then everyone who does not have her would be left out of the game. Actually, all these formulas for online games have long been calculated - the growth of the strength of the top content of the game should occur in geometric progression relative to its "price". Simply put, in order to increase the strength by 10%, you need to make ten times more efforts than the previous 10% (the numbers are taken conditional, just to explain the principle) this approach guarantees interest in the game as nerds and donators who have room to develop, and casuals who, with much less effort, remain competitive. Yes, they will lose the conditional 7 out of 10 fights, against a nerd, while spending 100 times less effort to achieve this level of strength. This is what I call balance. And to some extent I see this in the mechanics of new mystical girls.

1 hour ago, AmberLaTerra said:

I do not exactly have the option as Lemes put it, and not being a "top" level who can regularly finish top 4 in D3 what takes him a "couple months" to earn in free kobans takes an average player like me a year to earn. 

Well, let's count how much you can save in two months. 150 * 60 = 9000 are daily rewards. 120 * 30 = 3600 let every second day you take 2-4 places in the contests. 300 * 8 = 2400 is a reward for 8 weeks in a tower that can be easily obtained from level 200+. 840 * 2 = 1680 two months in seasons. This will already be 16680. And there are still 9 days of the classic event and 5 days of the orgy event when they give additional gold. I'm too lazy to look for the total amount, but let it be about 50 per day, we get 50 * (9 + 5) * 2 = 1400. As a result, without really straining, it turns out 18k, which is most likely enough for a mythical girl, and if you try a little more or buy a little more for a donat, then it will be enough with a guarantee. So there is no need to tell fairy tales about the year of savings, it's only for those whose hands are growing out of their ass, but you are not like that, right?

[Zamio]

53 minutes ago, GeorgeMTO said:

But there wasn't a player who got to 99, was attempting to get that last shard and someone else took that away from them.

I don't think this is a safe assumption, just because there were shards left on the last slot. That would be true if every player had unlimited time to play the game, but not everyone can fit in their playtime around the time slots that shards were being added.

There could be players that couldn't complete her because the shards ran out during the only window(s) they had available to play. I count those players as being part of those who could, whereas you might not. It's semantics at this point.

 

 

[GeorgeMTO]

12 minutes ago, Zamio said:

I don't think this is a safe assumption, just because there were shards left on the last slot. That would be true if every player had unlimited time to play the game, but not everyone can fit in their playtime around the time slots that shards were being added.

There could be players that couldn't complete her because the shards ran out during the only window(s) they had available to play. I count those players as being part of those who could, whereas you might not. It's semantics at this point.

 

 

If you weren't able to check in for the entire 8 hour window at the end, then you didn't have the resources necessary. Time to play is also a resource. Not being able to get there for the first hour is completely acceptable, if there's a full 8 hour window where you couldn't play, the you're not in the could. No argument otherwise acceptable.

[DvDivXXX]

So, that thing came and went super fast. I'm now the proud owner of 7% of a girl I might complete 10 years from now if the game and I are both still around (by which point she will be so irrelevant it won't be funny)... Cool, cool, cool.

Was is worth spending my combativity on a tutorial-level boss I've maxed out long ago instead of progressing on bosses that are still useful to me? Not by a long shot, and I wouldn't even have bothered had I not already grabbed the 3 boss girls from the classic event.

The art seems great, though, and 6 stars mean even more juicy goodness to unlock, so there's always that to look forward to, at least. A long, long way ahead.

I'll save the bulk of my feedback on the feature itself for the main MD thread.

[AmberLaTerra]

9 hours ago, Lemus said:

Well, let's count how much you can save in two months. 150 * 60 = 9000 are daily rewards. 120 * 30 = 3600 let every second day you take 2-4 places in the contests. 300 * 8 = 2400 is a reward for 8 weeks in a tower that can be easily obtained from level 200+. 840 * 2 = 1680 two months in seasons. This will already be 16680. And there are still 9 days of the classic event and 5 days of the orgy event when they give additional gold. I'm too lazy to look for the total amount, but let it be about 50 per day, we get 50 * (9 + 5) * 2 = 1400. As a result, without really straining, it turns out 18k, which is most likely enough for a mythical girl, and if you try a little more or buy a little more for a donat, then it will be enough with a guarantee. So there is no need to tell fairy tales about the year of savings, it's only for those whose hands are growing out of their ass, but you are not like that, right?

Yes that is 18k, but lets say one wants as many girls as possible, that then removes 7200*2 for 2 PoA's over that 2 months.   So what your telling us is we have to choose 1 mythic girl at 18k a month, or 4 girls from the two PoA koban paths and 3600 a month not counting anything that may need to be spent on legendary contests dropping that for some down to about 2000 a month profit.   Not to mention with RNG the mythic girl can cost up to 17-23k based on luck so if one is lucky in shard drops.   23k/2k is 11.5 months, so close to a year for the average player in less they ignore all other koban costing events.

[Lemus]

50 minutes ago, AmberLaTerra said:

Yes that is 18k, but lets say one wants as many girls as possible, that then removes 7200*2 for 2 PoA's over that 2 months.   So what your telling us is we have to choose 1 mythic girl at 18k a month, or 4 girls from the two PoA koban paths and 3600 a month not counting anything that may need to be spent on legendary contests dropping that for some down to about 2000 a month profit.   Not to mention with RNG the mythic girl can cost up to 17-23k based on luck so if one is lucky in shard drops.   23k/2k is 11.5 months, so close to a year for the average player in less they ignore all other koban costing events.

Well, this is the point - you save up a resource and decide what is more important to you. A mystical girl who will give a small boost in pvp or a dozen ordinary girls. And if you want everything at once, you have to donate. This is one of the principles of monetizing ftp games. By the way, it should be noted that HH is an extremely democratic game in this regard - you can still get top content in it without donation at all. In most modern browser and mobile games, this is basically impossible, there, upon reaching a certain line, it simply becomes impossible to play without investing real money and take the best, especially for pvp, you can only buy using a credit card and not otherwise.

[1tst1]

Well, you know something is wrong, when even the pro answers say, you need to spend all your resources on the mythical girl.

[snowman22]

I really do not understand the "I should be able to get all content even if I am only a year into the game" crowd.

The mythic girl is not that expensive. A couple of months, even at mid levels. KK has a history of springing stuff on us that requires a whack of kobans to take advantage of. If you have < 10K kobans banked you are asking for tears. So a prudent player only needs to scrape up an additional 4-7K. Easy.

 She will not make much difference to the top players. In a few months all of them will have one and nobody will have an advantage. The real winners will be mid level players who scrape and sacrifice to get one and upgrade her. They will kill against their mythic-less peers.

Yes, the mythic girl requires sacrifice. Yes, top level players have to sacrifice less. That is the way games work. You never have enough resources to do everything. Veterans get a leg up.

Some of the top level players bought their way there. Fine. They financed the game. But most of the top players fought their way there. They gave up stuff.

I give you that there is no mechanism in the game for a mid-level, smart player to catch a high level, smart player. I am just not convinced that is a flaw. (Full disclosure, I am almost high level. 440)

[Cantrix]

A waste of kobans and affection. Not worth the stress, time managment and kobans/money burnt, nor the affection spend to upgrade. The event needs a total overhaul. Removal of the serverwide shard pool, at least 10%shard drop rate and at least doible the amount of shard drop range up to 2. 1-2shards. Then maybe it will be worth it's money. I don't want to fuck up other people and prevent them from getting a girl they want. Rethink it and instead of competitive turn the event in cooperative. For instance increasing shard drop % by 1% for each 1000 or 10000 people fighting the boss(a.k.a participating in the event).

Edited December 10, 2020 by Cantrix