pantheon Pantheon walls

[Tom208]

il y a 5 minutes, Yamiray a dit :

I hope that is just a 2001 thing.

I don't know from which floor it starts but at the floor 1900, Pantheon boss is fully skilled too (in that case, it means Pantheon boss has actually about 400,000 HP more).

Edited September 13, 2023 by Tom208

[Ravi-Sama]

31 minutes ago, Tom208 said:

I don't know from which floor it starts but at the floor 1900, Pantheon boss is fully skilled too

Physical means Shield, so that 1,900 boss actually has 1.43 mil HP.  I'd definitely use Execute.

Also, I just noticed vs. the 2,001st floor, that it was possible to have reflect active at the start, and then get stunned.  Also, that reflect did more dmg to the boss (~200k), vs. my regular dmg, which was ~60k.  If the boss crit for 500k, then they did 400k dmg to themselves, lol.

[Horsting]

1 hour ago, Tom208 said:

He's fully skilled

Dammit. As I am coincidentally at 1300, waiting for ginseng to expire to equip cordys for around league reset:

Tier 5 not skilled, but tier 4 is, which means that he benefits from longer fights, which means that execute is additionally beneficial here, as long as you do not have all your girls with tier 4 maxed as well. Hmm, I have no green or red L5 in my current team to get the execute skill, and any other would need to be skilled up form zero, so I think I'll leave Bunna's shield in place. I have no idea how to estimate how these 40% additional ego raise my win chances. Anyone an idea, at least for a rough estimation?

Btw, I have 3 headbands from hero level rewards (AFAIR). But the Pantheon won't become easier, so I will definitely have a better use for them. A new headband costs 450 kobans, 1 worship costs 26 kobans. Does it hence make sense to not use a headband unless the win chance is below 26/450=5.8%? I wouldn't buy refills either, as I see no need to hurry with the Pantheon, but just as general strategy for when e.g. being at/above stage 1500 before/during MD/R where I want to cross a wall to benefit from the CP rewards of next stages. EDIT: Ah sorry, this question/answer better goes to Pantheon topic.

1 hour ago, Ravi-Sama said:

My reasoning for the pantheon is simple, b/c from experience I've often come very close to defeating them, it's not that rare.  If I had the execute skill at the time, I would've definitely won earlier, w/ much less tries.

Sure, but the same applies for all other skills, it is just easier to "see" how execute would have helped as you can see how you cross 24%/30%. But if you started with 140% ego, of course this would have been very helpful as well. If the fight is much longer than in leagues, then stun and reflection loose their value in Pantheon even more, as e.g. 2 reflected/stunned hits out of 10 has just halve the value of 2 out of 5. As of the relatively high ego and defence of the god on post 1500 stages, 10 rounds seem realistic, unless he crits you off faster?

56 minutes ago, Ravi-Sama said:

Physical means Shield, so that 1,900 boss actually has 1.43 mil HP.  I'd definitely use Execute.

I am almost certain that execute triggers once X% of the original ego is crossed, not of the 140%. It likely does not make the execute choice wrong, but at least it does not become better when the opponent is shielded.

Edited September 13, 2023 by Horsting

[Ravi-Sama]

44 minutes ago, Horsting said:

Btw, I have 3 headbands from hero level rewards (AFAIR). But the Pantheon won't become easier, so I will definitely have a better use for them. A new headband costs 450 kobans, 1 worship costs 26 kobans. Does it hence make sense to not use a headband unless the win chance is below 26/450=5.8%? I wouldn't buy refills either, as I see no need to hurry with the Pantheon, but just as general strategy for when e.g. being at/above stage 1500 before/during MD/R where I want to cross a wall to benefit from the CP rewards of next stages.

Use a headband at floor 1,500, since it'll earn you an L5 girl.  I'm stuck at 1,300 too, but in CxH.  I think I'd always use execute in the pantheon.  It helps reduce the huge HP advantage.  Adding 40% to your own HP isn't as much as reducing the boss' HP by 30%.

44 minutes ago, Horsting said:

Sure, but the same applies for all other skills, it is just easier to "see" how execute would have helped as you can see how did did cross 24%/30%. But if you started with 140% ego, of course this would have been very helpful as well. If the fight is much longer than in leagues, then stun and reflection loose their value in Pantheon even more, as e.g. 2 reflected/stunned hits out of 10 has just halve the value of 2 out of 5. As of the relatively high ego and defense of the god, 10 rounds seem realistic, unless he crits you off faster?

• 2,000: The most attacks I had vs floor 2,000 was 6, last March.  It took 3 crits to win back then, w/o getting crit by the boss.
• 1900:  I won w/ a 10 fight skip, so didn't take note of the turns, but saw I could usually get 4-6 hits in on avg.
• 1800:  I could do 6 atks, and it took 2 crits to win.
• 1700:  The same as floor 1,800.
• 1600:  Didn't take note of the turns.
• 1,500:  Needed two crits.
• Didn't take notes for the rest, a headband was good enough.

Overall, assuming there's 10 turns is way too much.  At most you'd get 6 turns in the past.  An extra 40% HP for the player doesn't mean much if you get crit, and it gets erased in the first turn, but that's true for any scenario.  If you get crit at all, it's usually a failed attempt.  I'd still prefer execute, but I can see how stun could be very useful as well.  It might prevent the boss' skill from triggering, and you could possibly get 3 crits in a row, w/o getting hit.

I might move all this pantheon stuff to that thread later.

[Horsting]

Okay thanks, so then long fight duration in Pantheon is not an argument. That one does them (from stage 1500 on) mostly with headband and 4 cordys of course is also a good reason for that.

24 minutes ago, Ravi-Sama said:

An extra 40% HP for the player doesn't mean much if you get crit, and it gets erased in the first turn, but that's true for any scenario.

But a crit can also eliminate the benefit of the execution skill (when you get knocked out the round before reaching the 24/30%), and whether the crit eats the 40% shield or 40% of your actual ego makes no difference regarding the outcome: 40% is 40%, regardless how the opponent takes them away. I do not see a point why crits, whether and when they happen, would affect the relative value of the skills (when comparing them) at all. I would just always calculate with average damages when doing a comparison.  

24 minutes ago, Ravi-Sama said:

Adding 40% to your own HP isn't as much as reducing the boss' HP by 31%.

That is true, since 140/100 < 100/70, quite close but true. Actually, if the god is shielded, hence you need to bring him down to 21.4% of his overall (shielded) ego, it should be the other way round, as the 40% additional ego in average allow you to do more damage than those remaining 21.4%?

Edited September 13, 2023 by Horsting

[Ravi-Sama]

4 minutes ago, Horsting said:

I do not see a point why crits, whether and when they happen, would affect the relative value of the skills (when comparing them) at all.

Crits make all the difference in the pantheon.  Adding HP w/ Shield isn't as helpful, b/c the boss can just eat right through it.  Making the boss easier to defeat w/ Execute makes much more sense, since you could probably win w/ fewer crits.  Get past some higher floors, and you'll see.  After 100 failed attempts, you'll wish the boss had 30% less HP.

Your 22% win chance vs. floor 1,300 is more than good enough already, btw.  I passed it w/ a 4.66% chance.

[Horsting]

2 minutes ago, Ravi-Sama said:

b/c the boss can just eat right through it.

Of course, but why is it better when he eats 40% of your actual ego up, instead of the shield? A crit is always bad, and +40% HP is always good, I still do not see the point why those do effect each other. However, I am no mathematician with logic as main class, so probably I am just missing it. We do at least agree that execution is best if the win chance is all that matters, and if the opponent is not shielded. We will see who is right about whether the opponent's shield makes a difference (and whether execution is much or just slightly better otherwise), when our precious battle simulators support the new skills 😊.

[Master-17]

About the Pantheon: Pay attention to the levels of the girls participating in the battle on the other side. The 5th skill opens at level 650! Until this moment you will not find it in the Pantheon.

This means that at higher levels of the Pantheon it will become even more difficult 😭

Edited September 13, 2023 by Master-17

[Master-17]

OK, I don’t know if this is worth opening a topic on bugs, but at least in battles against the Pantheon, Stun freezes the entire battle - no one deals damage and the battle does not continue. This is a purely visual problem, but inconvenient.

[hihi1237823]

22 minutes ago, Master-17 said:

OK, I don’t know if this is worth opening a topic on bugs, but at least in battles against the Pantheon, Stun freezes the entire battle - no one deals damage and the battle does not continue. This is a purely visual problem, but inconvenient.

 

Hi I notice that your pantheon at 1700 level ,
the  ego is 593K while mine  at the same level 1700 is 974K .
How come? My is at HH

[Master-17]

2 minutes ago, hihi1237823 said:

the  ego is 593K while mine  at the same level 1700 is 974K .
How come? My is at HH

Because this is after 2 rounds. Remaining health is shown. 
Current parameters for Nutaku:

And no longer offtopic, this topic is about something else.

[hihi1237823]

current for HH

there is mythic blessing currently

Edited September 14, 2023 by hihi1237823

[Master-17]

HH Nutaku and HH.com are different games with same material. Even blessings are different here: on Nutaku there are +20% epics and +20% exhibitionist now. And logo of "opponent" in Pantheon is random, because it is different now from what it was 3 hours ago. Yes, and every time you approach the enemy it changes.

And once again - end the off-topic!

[hihi1237823]

 vs 

 

Keep getting stun and lose the match after 20+ tries 

Try instead  replace with below team with the 80 % reflect skill L5 unit. Win on the 2nd try. ,as my team reflect critical  damage and defeat the opponent.  😅

 

 

[Horsting]

Indeed GS5 is a game changer, hence mandatory to have a maxed girl in the team, no matter how weak she otherwise is.

When comparing the skills, I always had mostly unboosted league opponents in mind, which are mostly much weaker than you and where the important thing is to minimise the damage done to you. Stun and reflection are relatively weak skills then, since the damage blocked by the shield or prevented by early execution is more than two possibly prevented opponent attacks, or what (s)he is able to get reflected. But against stronger opponents which do equal or more damage than you, also e.g. due to the massive crit chance you face in Pantheon, stun and reflection become much stronger. Reflection is probably nicer as it always triggers for the first two rounds, and AFAIK an opponent's stun can only prevent the 2nd reflection, if any. Stun has only a chance to happen, but then it prevents opponent's skills as well, so hard to compare those.

[Attirm]

Well, I've been slowly meandering my way through the pantheon. I haven't used mythic boosters since floor 1500, so 1600, 1700, and 1800 were just breaking through with good blessings. However, 1900 is the first boss floor I've hit since the girl skill change. And, well, they have maxed out skills with shield in the lead spot. I didn't even leave a scratch. I guess I should have made a push to finish Pantheon months ago (because I was definitely strong enough), I just presumed that power creep would benefit players more than the pantheon...

[Tom208]

Le 28/09/2023 à 18:28, Attirm a dit :

Well, I've been slowly meandering my way through the pantheon. I haven't used mythic boosters since floor 1500, so 1600, 1700, and 1800 were just breaking through with good blessings. However, 1900 is the first boss floor I've hit since the girl skill change. And, well, they have maxed out skills with shield in the lead spot. I didn't even leave a scratch. I guess I should have made a push to finish Pantheon months ago (because I was definitely strong enough), I just presumed that power creep would benefit players more than the pantheon...

Have you tried with a tier 5 girl skill against him?

I think "Stun" or "Reflect" could help in your case.

[Shirow]

Yesterday... out of nowhere I got Scorpion.
I have been since last time i spoke here, just doing the battles for the task things, although just wasting time overall .
To my surprise yesterday doing a task to do patheon fight at ..4 fights i guess, BOOM SHAKA LAKA, here she is. oh cool, i go on to the next suffering

 

This is the team I was using. 

 

Edited October 2, 2023 by Shirow

[mdnoria]

Holy fuck, reflect is overpowered in the pantheon. I put the level 2001 at 100k ego left.

I just changed the team from my league team to my #weakinseason team to ensure I never beat 2001.

[Horsting]

Perfect timing during MD, made it on 2nd attempt:

It makes sense to use the #weakinseasons team from now an as long as there is no good opportunity to use the 3 CP, right? Or are there any other rewards worth going for better sooner than later, which have a higher value than the CP along the way?

[Tom208]

Il y a 11 heures, Horsting a dit :

It makes sense to use the #weakinseasons team from now an as long as there is no good opportunity to use the 3 CP, right? Or are there any other rewards worth going for better sooner than later, which have a higher value than the CP along the way?

No other reward except of course the girl at floor 2000. So yes, it's better to win the next fights when you need CP.

[MrXY]

I finally broke my lvl 1900 wall without using a mythic booser with this team:

The probability for beating the boss was about 9% with 4 Cordyceps. Now I'm on the way to the final boss but of course I do only fights if I need the CP rewards.

[430i]

Is there a way to somewhat correctly estimate the win probability with a headband booster before quipping one? AFAIK MM's script does not consider girl skills and renalove's script does not take potential headband into account.

[renalove]

11 hours ago, 430i said:

Is there a way to somewhat correctly estimate the win probability with a headband booster before quipping one? AFAIK MM's script does not consider girl skills and renalove's script does not take potential headband into account.

I was not aware of that. My script runs before MM's script, so you need to change the order. Please open "Settings" of my script and change "Run at" to "document-end" and "Position" to after MM's script. This should work.

I also plan to add a booster simulator to my script. The current development version requires hero stats and some bonuses to be calculated manually and written directly into a script. Once some formulas are figured out, this can be automated.

[OmerB]

Did anyone beat temple 2000 after tier V skills were added?

It's horrible, if I'm maxing my attack, then I get the damage back from his reflect skill.

I'm hoping for a blue eyes +40% and Dominatrix +40%, but still with his reflect skill... 🥲