leagues [ August 2nd, 2023 ] Leagues Redesign

[garadron]

is the fact that servers are burning again around the reset time an additional feature of the league redesign they just forgot to put into patch notes?

[Bobick]

Does anyone know if AM/LM boosters can be used again?

[bolitho76]

Yes. Bug fixed.

 

[DvDivXXX]

I haven't combed through these 4 pages yet, I'll admit. 🚬

It seems for the most part this is still on, right?

  

14 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

Now, on to the first full league with all the new handicaps from the recent patch:

• No ability to hide fought opponents.
• No sorting or filtering that actually works, only sorted by Rank regardless.
• Misleading and plain distracting real-time boosters even though we're still facing opponents as they were at the latest snapshot, so usually not with/out these boosters we're (not) shown.
• No color tag or girl team info from the main list, need to open up an opponent not just once but every time you want to check or recheck that info.
• No ability to change or even check your own team without opening the battle interface for an available opponent first. Consequently, no ability to change or even check your own team after your final fight of the week.
• Shitty "Power" gauge that's way off and basically useless compared to the existing script sims.
• Even with the script update, we can't see more than 10 opponents at a time, down from 15 (but up from the 5 of the new layout for the vanilla game).
• More that I'm forgetting.

Can't wait...

 

[Master-17]

@zoopokemon made several updates to his mod but not everything was resolved yet

Zoo, can you hide Team column and made Stats font larger? Maybe shrink Name column? And distribute statistic values over a longer length?

Edited August 3, 2023 by Master-17
Suggestions

[430i]

45 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

It seems for the most part this is still on, right?

You can also add:

• random mythic orbs instead of epic in the lower leagues (sexpert 3 and below)
• inaccurate league "progress bar"
• inability to see opponents mythic equipment and previous league results

[DvDivXXX]

Oh, right, forgot about that last one: we can no longer check opponent's profiles anymore. Very annoying.

I had no idea about the other two as they don't affect me, but not surprised there's even more issues.

The most baffling thing is this is strictly interface improvements on paper, and it might eventually lead to a better league experience once they... fix all the options that are either not working properly or not at all, and all the bugs, and re-introduce all the now-missing options the old layout (plus HH++ script) already had but this new layout flat out removed. Oh, and fix the new booster display toy they've added to emulate (attempt to replace, rather) the League Booster Detector script so that instead of giving us way too much information (TMI) on stuff that's basically useless for league play, it gives us the right amount of relevant information that actually applies to league play (like the actual stats the opponent has in the state we're able to fight them).... So in a few decades, at most. ^^

But right now, it's just hot garbage through and through, with a whole pile of pure downsides to its grand total of ZERO upside compared to the interface we had been using for years and still worked just fine a couple days ago. V_v

This is so typically the type of shit that should have been given WEEKS on the Test Server before going live. But nah, it got a single day.

[bolitho76]

20 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

it got a single day.

More: ca. 19h

Edited August 3, 2023 by bolitho76

[EpicBacon]

18 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

Oh, right, forgot about that last one: we can no longer check opponent's profiles anymore. Very annoying.

I had no idea about the other two as they don't affect me, but not surprised there's even more issues.

The most baffling thing is this is strictly interface improvements on paper, and it might eventually lead to a better league experience once they... fix all the options that are either not working properly or not at all, and all the bugs, and re-introduce all the now-missing options the old layout (plus HH++ script) already had but this new layout flat out removed. Oh, and fix the new booster display toy they've added to emulate (attempt to replace, rather) the League Booster Detector script so that instead of giving us way too much information (TMI) on stuff that's basically useless for league play, it gives us the right amount of relevant information that actually applies to league play (like the actual stats the opponent has in the state we're able to fight them).... So in a few decades, at most. ^^

But right now, it's just hot garbage through and through, with a whole pile of pure downsides to its grand total of ZERO upside compared to the interface we had been using for years and still worked just fine a couple days ago. V_v

This is so typically the type of shit that should have been given WEEKS on the Test Server before going live. But nah, it got a single day.

Well, its not like I don't understand their reasoning; It's a lot easier and less time consuming to have one Ui, for both mobile and computer. And this is nothing new, Skyrim has the same Ui for consoles and computer.
Playing skyrim on a pc without downloading SkyUi or something similar is a really terrible experience.

The sensible thing would be to reach out to the modders, throw them some cashdollar or kobans or whatever to make
them make the computer Ui for you; Hell of a lot cheaper then doing it yourself, you are literally outsourcing it.

[Incubys]

Thank you @zoopokemonfor updating your script to make the league screen more user friendly.

Having used up my stored fights, it just feels like too much of a ball ache as KK have left it. Until KK put in some very basic functionality (hide fought opponents / allow sort by level / change team button on main screen), I feel like the 15x button / prayer for a top 15 finish will be my league strategy.

[Yamiray]

either something is wrong with the stats I'm seeing or I have the worst luck on the RNG then I've ever seen

[Horsting]

2 hours ago, Yamiray said:

either something is wrong with the stats I'm seeing or I have the worst luck on the RNG then I've ever seen

Did it probably have a counter team? I never checked whether the stats in this table contain possible counter bonuses  (against you) already or not. The battle page itself at least should.

[DvDivXXX]

8 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

Misleading and plain distracting real-time boosters even though we're still facing opponents as they were at the latest snapshot, so usually not with/out these boosters we're (not) shown.

->

4 hours ago, Yamiray said:

either something is wrong with the stats I'm seeing or I have the worst luck on the RNG then I've ever seen

The new booster thingy is not to be trusted whatsoever. It shows you the player's CURRENT boosters (or lack thereof) and even the timer until they expire. What you're up against when you click GO to Challenge that opponent is NOT that. It's still whatever this player happened to have equipped when the latest league snapshot that affected them took place (either the latest global one every 6 hours or a random partial one). So this is worse than no indicator at all. It's not only distracting and useless, it's actively misleading.

Here, you were shown that KaPoon1 had no boosters on at the time. Which misled you into attacking them, but what you actually fought was not KaPoon1 at the time: instead, it was the remnant of what KaPoon1 had equipped up to 6 hours earlier. Clearly given your results, it was definitely not "no boosters" (more likely 4 cordys and probably a stronger team than whatever they also seem to use in real time for their formula to gauge "Power", which is also a bad and misleading indicator).

We're basically flying blind and we have to avoid false clues on top of that. It really sucks.

Edited August 4, 2023 by DvDivXXX
updated

[Horsting]

13 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

What you're up against when you click GO to Challenge that opponent is NOT that. It's still whatever this player happened to have equipped when the latest league snapshot that affected them took place (either the latest global one every 6 hours or a random partial one).

Actually whenever I actively observed it, including for opponents where I was waiting for the second their boosters expire, was that the opponent stats shown were exactly those without boosters (on the overview table as well as on the battle page), and the results were within the possible range of what the HH++ simulation showed me. So is your statement based on an definite observation/prove or do you just assume that the 6h snapshot thing has not changed?

Edited August 4, 2023 by Horsting

[DvDivXXX]

53 minutes ago, Horsting said:

So is your statement based on an definite observation/prove or do you just assume that the 6h snapshot thing has not changed?

Experience and gut feeling, no definitive proof from me, Your Honor. 🙏

However, to be very clear and avoid a possible misunderstanding:

53 minutes ago, Horsting said:

Actually whenever I actively observed it, including for opponents where I was waiting for the second their boosters expire, was that the opponent stats shown were exactly those without boosters (on the overview table as well as on the battle page)

This directly clashes with my own experience and observation. Once you select an opponent and go to the new battlefield page for them, then yeah: what you see is what you get. But this hardly matches consistently with what is shown for that opponent on the main list page.

Actually, come to think of it, it shouldn't be too hard to give you the definitive proof you're asking for.

My regular boosters just expired a few minutes ago. This is me right now, on the main list page:

And this is me right now, on the battlefield vs an opponent's page:

(Of course, my LM booster is only visible to me as it doesn't affect my opponents when they face me, so that explains the +15% to my Attack value; but how about my HP and Def?).

---EDIT---

Oh, and this is me right after equipping a fresh set of boosters:

Notice anything?

Another very weird buggy thing I've only noticed today is this:

I've been #1 in my league for hours now (we're in the middle of a typical 6-hour league snapshot, 16:30ish CET, 3 hours and a half after the daily reset so somewhere around 3 hours and 3 hours and a half and into it). But my Rank is still 7 on the home page, and it won't budge.

Refreshing the page or emptying my cache doesn't seem to change that, or refresh even my own damn stats on the main list page from the League, for that matter:

--End of EDIT---

Also, for me at least, although they show boosters with the timer for when they'll expire, they don't. I either see an opponent with an empty booster section (and no timer), OR with boosters equipped AND a timer for when they'll expire. In the latter case, if I wait for that timer to finish during a usual 6-hour league snapshot period, the boosters never actually go away from the main list. Instead the timer breaks:

And either way, stats sometimes match, and many times they don't:

*

And my main list page does get refreshed every 6 hours as always. I've noticed this for sure.

Edited August 4, 2023 by DvDivXXX
updated

[Horsting]

22 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

Also, for me at least, although they show boosters with the timer for when they'll expire, they don't.

Yes indeed, the timer just disappears. This is currently a bid nasty to check for every enemy but possible. However, the stats shown for them in my case is correctly without boosters bonus, on the table as well as on the battle page.

I also recognised the wrong/outdated league rank in town.

The difference between your own AP on table and battle page is within the possible rounding range of the +15% from LM/AM. I see the same difference. So in the table you see your defensive stats, which opponents see, and on the battle page you see your offensive stats. This could be either aligned (both offensive stats) or made clear somewhere, so you do not skip a battle because your stats seem lower, while they are actually higher (at least AP). But our question was about the 6h snapshot vs opponents booster expiry. Your lower defence is because of the opponent's playful penalty.

For both of your enemy example: They have a counter bonus against you: The AP and ago is exactly 10% higher, harmony is identical and defence lower because of your playful penalty. All as expected. So the counter bonus is indeed not shown on the overview page, but only on the battle page. I think this is also best, since you can usually easily avoid it, respectively turn it so you have the bonus instead, so it should not affect your decision whether to battle an opponent or not.

22 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

And my main list page does get refreshed every 6 hours as always. I've noticed this for sure.

I did not check this, but it would match my observation if enemies got refreshed in two cases: Every 6 hours AND when either one of their boosters expires or they equip a new one. Was this probably even true before the change, and the reason for the occasional individual enemies being refreshed before, between the 6h snapshots?

Edited August 4, 2023 by Horsting

[Ravi-Sama]

I've caught 5 players so far, right after their boosters expired, 3 more players than when I last posted that the expiration worked.

3 of them definitely lost their boosters, had lower stats, and I had 70+ score victories on them.  2 of them were actively playing during the booster expiration, and quickly re-equipped them.  I could tell b/c my E[X] didn't increase, and when I returned to the league page, to check if they were still un-boosted, they already had new timers counting down.  I didn't fight them, & I'll wait for another opportunity next time instead. 

The expirations do work from my experience, but it's not like every player will be afk.  Some will be active and replace them swiftly.  Gotta be careful.

[DvDivXXX]

24 minutes ago, Horsting said:

Was this probably even true before the change, and the reason for the occasional individual enemies being refreshed before, between the 6h snapshots?

100% not. I took part in far too many tests confirming this to question it. For instance I would tell a clubmate who's in my group that my boosters just expired, but they don't see my stats change at all until the next league snapshot (if I wait for them and don't equip new boosters before that, or they just didn't see me unboosted at any point). Other times, my clubmate could instantly see me unboosted, and/or boosted again after I equip fresh boosters (or change my team, I've made many tests like that as it's even more obvious if you see me with a certain team while I'm clearly using another one). Always either right away, or not at all until the next snapshot. Boosters expiring or getting equipped is one of the possible triggers for a partial snapshots, but it's always been RNG-based. That's the most concrete manifestation of the randomized partial snapshots in between 6-hour global ones (that and they told us this is in place, but that's the easiest way to demonstrate it is).

24 minutes ago, Horsting said:

So in the table you see your defensive stats, which opponents see, and on the battle page you see your offensive stats.

Exactly. So we're in agreeance as they say in Australia (judging by the Traitors TV show at least ^^) then.

Even I don't see my actual stats in real time on the league's main list page, whereas I do see my boosters or lack thereof in real time there:

42 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

Notice anything?

(You probably missed my EDIT). These stats match neither my current boosters or a lack of boosters, by the way. They match the DIFFERENT set of boosters I had equipped prior to them expiring like an hour ago when I started taking these screenshots. Aka the stats I had for the latest league snapshot.  

7 minutes ago, Ravi-Sama said:

The expirations do work from my experience

To reiterate, what you see on the main list page:

1. STATS don't change in real time. They still follow the league snapshot system.
2. BOOSTERS do change in real time. They do NOT match the stats, though.
3. You see contradictory info on that page. Only parts of it is somewhat reliable.

Edited August 4, 2023 by DvDivXXX
updated

[Horsting]

8 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

These stats match neither my current boosters or a lack of boosters, by the way. They match the DIFFERENT set of boosters I had equipped prior to them expiring like an hour ago when I started taking these screenshots. Aka the stats I had for the latest league snapshot.

I will be able to test this myself tonight, when one of my cordys expires after the AME, where I will switch to ginseng. But as the stats in your table perfectly match the ones on the battle screen, does this means also on the battle screen you see the wrong stats, i.e. those matching the previous boosters? And it is not possible that your LM and the opponent's counter bonus + playful defence penalty just give the impression of it? When switching from cordy to ginseng, aside of harmony, all stats change qualitatively in the opposite direction of what added LM, opponent's counter bonus and defence penalty give, so one must calculate it to see which of the two explanations is true.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Horsting

[430i]

42 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

But this hardly matches consistently with what is shown for that opponent on the main list page.

The opponent stats in the league table are as if you are using a balanced team - meaning their stats without any counter-synergies applied. Once you go to the pre-battle screen, then the real opponent stats are calculated. At least this is what I observed.

[DvDivXXX]

19 hours ago, Horsting said:

the stats in your table perfectly match the ones on the battle screen

They don't, though? Where are you getting this perfect match from?

19 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

And this is me right now, on the battlefield vs an opponent's page:

19 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

Notice anything?

19 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

Another very weird buggy thing I've only noticed today is this:

I've been #1 in my league for hours now (we're in the middle of a typical 6-hour league snapshot, 16:30ish CET, 3 hours and a half after the daily reset so somewhere around 3 hours and 3 hours and a half and into it). But my Rank is still 7 on the home page, and it won't budge.

Okay, that thing is independently broken in mysterious ways.

I've just moved up from Rank 7 to Rank 2 on the home page. Even though my actual rank is still Rank 1 in the League itself and that hasn't changed for the past few hours.

So it seems like a random side effect but it's probably not linked to the other problems in any meaningful way for us.

[Horsting]

26 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

They don't, though? Where are you getting this perfect match from?

58 minutes ago, Horsting said:

The difference between your own AP on table and battle page is within the possible rounding range of the +15% from LM/AM. ... Your lower defence is because of the opponent's playful penalty.

But now I see the mismatch of ego, which I cannot explain either (it does not match any counter or booster bonus at least), and your edit about when you freshly equipped new boosters. The missing update of your stats for the boosters remains after you exist and reenter the league?

I did not pay much attention about my own stats so far. Checked again and indeed I see the same ego mismatch between table and battle page, and also a slightly too large AP difference, which cannot be explained alone with the AME. As harmony does perfectly match (for defence I need to re-calculate), is it probably GG or hero gear resonance bonuses missing on the table?

However, while this should be clarified and fixed, the own stats are not such an issue IMO, as long as they are correct on the battle page, so the HH++ can also calculate the correct odds. But the opponents' stats are!

Edited August 4, 2023 by Horsting

[DvDivXXX]

18 hours ago, Horsting said:

The missing update of your stats for the boosters remains after you exist and reenter the league?

Oh yeah. I'm still rocking those outdated stats now, after moving around to and fro in game, refreshing the page and even emptying my cache (this is from 10 mins ago in my previous post), still the exact same stats I already had before my boosters expired, and they persisted while I had no boosters on, and also since I've equipped new and different ones (I had 4 cordys, now 2 gins 2 cordys).

18 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

18 hours ago, Horsting said:

However, while this should be clarified and fixed, the own stats are not such an issue IMO, as long as they are correct on the battle page, so the HH++ can also calculate the correct odds. But the opponents' stats are!

Obv. I'm using my own stats as a reference point because I don't have a clubmate or someone else I'm in touch with in my league group right now to make proper tests for our respective stats from our respective perspectives (lots of eves! ^^). But if the thing cannot even keep up your own stats accurate, I would be shocked it keeps up with the entire group's.

[Horsting]

15 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

But if the thing cannot even keep up your own stats accurate, I would be shocked it keeps up with the entire group's.

But you cannot really derive something about your opponents stats from this, since your own stats were always and are certainly follow other rules. I mean they were not following the snapshot previously. Your own player level in the table previously was from the snapshot indeed, so indeed possible that your stats from the table in general still are.

I tried to verify the gear bonus info based on my own defence stat:

• The table shows me 37.1k defence.
• The opponent I selected had a playful penalty of 9% => 31.1k*0.91=33.761k.
• I have a GG resonance bonus on defence of 1.16% => 33.761k*1.0116=34.153k.
• I have a hero gear defence bonus of 2% => 34.153k*1.02=34.836k.
• On the battle page however I see 35,388, i.e. still too high. I am not sure whether I added +60 +60 secondary market stats since last snapshot, but this also would not bring me there. If hero gear and CC are additively added instead of multiplying each other, the expected value would be even lower.
• Also if 37.1k was rounded down from closely 37.2k, I wouldn't end up at 35,388.

Ah, if the GG resonance bonuses wouldn't be considered on the table, then the raw GG stats probably neither. Could this be the missing few hundred defence points? I am too lazy to calculate this for now.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Horsting

[Pelinor]

Do we still get the "Club Bonuses?" I only ask because the clubs no longer show in the player profile of the battle screen since the "update."