Darsca Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 @DvDivXXX That was a wonderfully well written argument, which raises a lot of valid points and which I pretty much totally agree with. However.. how do I put this? glances at the thread title and opening post Maybe most of it would be better served by being somewhere else? I don't want to stunt any discussion on league balance (because we seriously desperately need it) but I would quite like to keep this thread on feedback for the new event. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-Wave Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 @DvDivXXX@ thanks for your really well written post, I like it a lot and agree almost 100%! Us whales were really baffled when leagues got introduced. It was so surreal knowing that in a few months time none of us would have to worry about not having enough Kobans anymore. The introduction of orbs which basically doubled down on these rewards were another feverdream. How will KK ever convince us to spend a lot of money again? I'm sitting on 5x EPx10 orbs, 30K+ Kobans, 1.3 Billion Ymens and right now I'm a silver card subscriber with far more resources than I can throw at the game. It's ridiculous and I'd rather have a real challenge with the game than privileges that become very boring after a while (that's why I desperately hope we won't get another level increase and can have a real league competition with thousands of lv 500 players, but that's unlikely to happen). Here's where I disagree with your statements: 1. Mate, leave out the FR bashing, it doesn't belong here and only harms your factually good points and well structured criticisms. I met just as many friendly people from the FR community, and of course there are idiots on both sides (but fortunately very few and in between). Let's not go down this road and appreciate that despite some very vicious game features, the community remained friendly and supportive overall. Thanks everybody, great job! 2. The zero-sum thing yet again. I consider it very troublesome for the game that I love so much. Not specifically for the new contest and power creep girl and these shenanigans (us whales will get her anyway and casual players will be left behind just like in the leagues or every event before, so no changes here). I worry about the potential harm that KK opens up the game for when it's okay that you can't even pay for your highest rewards anymore, but only for the chance and hope to be privileged enough, and your payment won't be capped and your win has to cause someone else's loss (which now might be negligible and compares well with what we're used to, but why not give girl shards only to the first rank in the future?). Maybe it's their way to "fix" the league (aka find a way to squeeze out money of us whales again), but it's just taking us further down the rabbit hole, except our wonderland is a very special kind of hell, reserved for murderers, lobbyists and people who annoyingly click their ballpens all the time... 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karyia Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 9 hours ago, DvDivXXX said: Thanks for your time. I hope this will open some eyes. Why on earth would you make "that" post in "this" thread😅 Some "eyes" won't even suspect/have an idea something like that would be here. I understand the frustration and need but, and given its importance, this totally merits a new topic/thread (or maybe the "how you doing in the league" one but at risk of diverting that one, probably a new one). Though, if I may add, it definitely needs the imput of veteran players too and even suggestions/proposals on how to alter things (pretty hard to satisfy everyone, if not impossible). And even with that, with zero guarantee that anything will change. But kudos for the post 👌 As for on topic (it's a bit weird discussing the same thing partly in several different places ) but as for the scoring, so far... Contest 1: PvP & Player XP - gain xp (1) - defeat players in pvp (arena and league) (100) If you want to rely less on pvp, maybe increase the xp factor? Contest 2: Pachinko or Donations Great Pachinko 1 game (5) Great Pachinko 10 games (50) Epic Pachinko 1 game (100) Epic Pachinko 10 games (1000) Donate 5000 (1) I think we could do without donate on this one (favors sniping even more), though that's actually the only way to "compete" if you're "orbless" (and don't want to break your bank on GP). Contest 3: Villains & Energy Spend energy (1) Defeat any boss (10) If anything, change the energy factor. All bosses being the same seems perfect to me. Contest 4: Girls Still haven't seen this one... anyone has? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jelom Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 21 minutes ago, Karyia said: Contest 2: Pachinko or Donations Great Pachinko 1 game (5) Great Pachinko 10 games (50) Epic Pachinko 1 game (100) Epic Pachinko 10 games (1000) Donate 5000 (1) I think we could do without donate on this one (favors sniping even more), though that's actually the only way to "compete" if you're "orbless" (and don't want to break your bank on GP). Be aware that the screenshot for this contest had a vertical displacement bar, so probably there is also: Donate 50000 (10), Donate 500000 (100) and donate 5000000 (1000). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_shal_ Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 27 minutes ago, jelom said: Be aware that the screenshot for this contest had a vertical displacement bar, so probably there is also: Donate 50000 (10), Donate 500000 (100) and donate 5000000 (1000). No, that was the only donation button there, the scrollbar was because of the presence of the regular contest underneath. It has apparently been changed to the usual 100k, 1m, 10m buttons for the upcoming second test, though. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator DvDivXXX Posted June 19, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 19, 2020 (edited) Thanks for the support, guys, it's much appreciated. I'll work on making a dedicated thread so as to not derail this one further, and do the main topic of my previous post justice. 4 hours ago, Z-Wave said: Mate, leave out the FR bashing, it doesn't belong here and only harms your factually good points and well structured criticisms. I met just as many friendly people from the FR community, and of course there are idiots on both sides Just to clarify, there was no "FR bashing" in my post. I'm French myself, in a French-speaking club, and I've read and, for a time, tried to participate in the FR section of the forum. That's a very very small and barely active sub-forum compared to this one and, in my humble opinion and from my own experience, it's nowhere near as friendly or productive as the EN section, and some of the very few regular posters have pretty toxic attitudes there. That's all I was referring to in the tiny, tiny couple of comments made in passing in my massive post. It's interesting that you even noticed those, let alone perceived them as "FR bashing". I have nothing bad to say about the FR community, I'm obviously a part of it and there are a lot of very nice and/or interesting players in there, in my club and many others. I just dislike the FR forum, and how it's moderated (especially compared to this one), that's all I was getting at. Tellingly, a lot of fellow French players I've had interesting discussions with on the forum are also bilingual and we mostly crossed paths here, not there. Anyway, that's a minor side point and you're right that it doesn't matter at all for the purpose of the debate I'm trying to launch about leagues. I'll clean up other minor points that might offend anyone in particular (like, someone could have specifically noticed the brief comment about time zones instead of the ones about the FR forum, and called me out on my US bashing instead, you know ^^). Thanks again for the support and feedback. Edited June 19, 2020 by DvDivXXX 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceHardwood Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 (edited) Well this is great: Day 1 - Legendary Contest bracket - 50 people Day 2 - Legendary Contest bracket rerolled - 64 people So much for the % calculations. The inefficiency here is going to be 50% or more, meaning out of the theoretical maximum 86%, only about 43% or less players will be able to get the necessary shards. And that's if they're lucky enough to be equally split between players who want the girl and those who don't. You could conceivably be put in a bracket where everyone wants her, as in one where people don't care about her. And while the latter can be 'lucky' it also increases inefficiency by providing shard to people who care less about them. With these brackets in mind the shard spread should definitely be redone to something like: 1-4th - 100 shards (other rewards notwithstanding) 5-10 - 65 shards 11-25 - 35 shards 26-40 - 20 shards 45 - end - 10 shards Edited June 19, 2020 by LanceHardwood 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Тёмный Властелин Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 Second quest: The time difference is still here: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caradog Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 (edited) 59 minutes ago, LanceHardwood said: Day 1 - Legendary Contest bracket - 50 people Day 2 - Legendary Contest bracket rerolled - 64 people Did you obtain Solaria & Umbria in the first contest? If you did then, as per Lola's original post, you will have/we have been removed from the main pool of players & placed into our own special brackets (my pool has 72 players in it) &, as such, the number of players in our pools will have no bearing on other, as yet unsuccessful, players' chances of obtaining the girl(s)/shards. FWIW, the fact that the Test Server has far fewer players & the percentage of those players who will have both secured the girl(s) on day one & fall into our respective level-brackets for contests will be very low may well have brought about a situation where the overall number of players separated from the main pool of players in each-level bracket is insufficient to be divided into multiple groups of ~50, hence the unexpectedly high numbers. If this is the case then the much larger player-base in the main game should ameliorate the issue, as should the intake of fresh players into the separated group following the conclusion of each of the coming contests. Edited June 19, 2020 by Caradog grammar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceHardwood Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 6 minutes ago, Caradog said: Did you obtain Solaria & Umbria in the first contest? No, otherwise I wouldn't be pointing out the brackets. I have 50 shards from day 1, but I am in a pool with 64 players total with the top rewards being shards. Let's take your bracket as an example for the total number of players who won on day 1, this is 4 per bracket, meaning 18 brackets of 50 = 900 players total. A simple calculation gives us: Day 1 - 18 brackets of 50 Day 2 - 16 brackets of 50 + 28/16 ~ 52 players average per bracket, significantly lower than the number I'm seeing in my own contest. Worst case scenario is that there are currently 3 shard brackets of around 64 players each, since 14 *4 would be more than the 50 required for a separate bracket. But that would mean those 72 in your bracket come from a a total of 5-6 original brackets. Let's put them at an optimistic 6 and it turns out that each bracket had 12 people getting the girl - okay some of them may have had shards from before, but 12 per bracket .... the numbers don't add up. The only logical conclusion is that subsequent days are intentionally more competitive and as result highly decrease the odds of more players getting a girl. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darsca Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 13 minutes ago, LanceHardwood said: The only logical conclusion is that subsequent days are intentionally more competitive and as result highly decrease the odds of more players getting a girl. Is it possible that you two are in different level brackets on the test server? In which case, the expected numbers for people in shard brackets from Caradog's day 2 would not be the same as the actual ones which you are seeing in yours, which would account for the discrepancy. As far as I am aware, every day when the new contests are formed, it should take all the people eligible for a bracket, divide it by 50, then split the remainder equally between those groups. Since the population is much higher on the live server, there should be very few groups with more than 51 or 52 at most. Also, I'm not sure that the 'special' brackets for people who already have the girl on the test server are segregated properly by level at the moment as there are simply far too few of them. So there's a spread in there from people across multiple level brackets who got the girl on day 1. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caradog Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, Darsca said: Is it possible that you two are in different level brackets on the test server? In which case, the expected numbers for people in shard brackets from Caradog's day 2 would not be the same as the actual ones which you are seeing in yours, which would account for the discrepancy. As far as I am aware, every day when the new contests are formed, it should take all the people eligible for a bracket, divide it by 50, then split the remainder equally between those groups. Since the population is much higher on the live server, there should be very few groups with more than 51 or 52 at most. Also, I'm not sure that the 'special' brackets for people who already have the girl on the test server are segregated properly by level at the moment as there are simply far too few of them. So there's a spread in there from people across multiple level brackets who got the girl on day 1. My Test Server account is less than a month old & a lowly level 172 so I'm probably in a much lower level bracket. I went all out in yesterday's contest as I wanted to find out if the separated groups/special brackets would be segregated into level groups &, FWIW, mine clearly is -- hence, i suspect, my enormous pool (given the relatively low number of players on the Test Server, I doubt there are that many level 160-200 accounts who, having obtained the girl on day 1, have been split off from the main group). The fact that @LanceHardwood's 62 player pool isn't a result of his having already obtained Solaria & Umbria is, for me at least, a tad worrying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceHardwood Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 19 minutes ago, Darsca said: Is it possible that you two are in different level brackets on the test server? You're actually right, but that still doesn't mean a 64 player bracket is normal when the previous day I had a bracket of exactly 50. 3 minutes ago, Caradog said: My Test Server account is less than a month old & a lowly level 172 so I'm probably in a much lower level bracket. The fact that @LanceHardwood's 62 player pool isn't a result of his having already obtained Solaria & Umbria is, for me at least, a tad worrying. I am level 52 atm, so much lower than you and I purposefully didn't win the 100 shards just to see what the spread would be on day 2. Needless to say I was unamused. It's definitely the case of some miscalculation on my part I guess, since on day 1 I was probably in a bracket for players less than level 50, and now I'm in one that's 50+. But it still doesn't seem like 64 players is right, unless there are a several times more players below level 50 than there are in the next tier. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darsca Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 7 minutes ago, Caradog said: My Test Server account is less than a month old & a lowly level 172 so I'm probably in a much lower level bracket. I went all out in yesterday's contest as I wanted to find out if the separated groups/special brackets would be segregated into level groups &, FWIW, mine clearly is -- hence, i suspect, my enormous pool (given the relatively low number of players on the Test Server, I doubt there are that many level 160-200 accounts who, having obtained the girl on day 1, have been split off from the main group). The fact that @LanceHardwood's 62 player pool isn't a result of his having already obtained Solaria & Umbria is, for me at least, a tad worrying. 1 minute ago, LanceHardwood said: You're actually right, but that still doesn't mean a 64 player bracket is normal when the previous day I had a bracket of exactly 50. I am level 52 atm, so much lower than you and I purposefully didn't win the 100 shards just to see what the spread would be on day 2. Needless to say I was unamused. It's definitely the case of some miscalculation on my part I guess, since on day 1 I was probably in a bracket for players less than level 50, and now I'm in one that's 50+. But it still doesn't seem like 64 players is right, unless there are a several times more players below level 50 than there are in the next tier. Interesting. I'm lacking enough knowledge of the demographics on test server to want to hazard a guess at why the brackets are forming with the numbers that they are. I hope that my previous assumption on the way the contests are being formed (ergo, the same way that normal contests are) is correct but I'm not totally confident in that. It would require some odd distributions on the numbers of players at each level bracket. Having said that, there could well be odd distributions since I doubt the test server gets a (relatively) steady influx of new players like the live servers, and more likely bursts whenever something new goes up there. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windia Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Darsca said: Interesting. I'm lacking enough knowledge of the demographics on test server to want to hazard a guess at why the brackets are forming with the numbers that they are. I hope that my previous assumption on the way the contests are being formed (ergo, the same way that normal contests are) is correct but I'm not totally confident in that. It would require some odd distributions on the numbers of players at each level bracket. Having said that, there could well be odd distributions since I doubt the test server gets a (relatively) steady influx of new players like the live servers, and more likely bursts whenever something new goes up there. I'm on a 29 player bracket on test server: me lvl 327 and Habi lvl 480 in Ostentious Duty which appeared today and is running on test server ... Oh, my mistake: I catched Solaria from the first run where I had an 4th place open, so I'm in the "next round brackets" there. nevermind Edited June 19, 2020 by windia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windia Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 I still wonder: How is the technical definition of "active" as it is a requirement in current announcement? Why is there a need to be active _72 hours in advance_? Why can't I just come back 3 hours before 1st day or get lvl 20 before last day starts? The bracket forming needs to take place in the beginning second of each day to sort girl owners out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceHardwood Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, windia said: Why is there a need to be active _72 hours in advance_? You don't need to be. You just need to have been active within the last 72 hours. 3 minutes before event start should still count. I got drafted when I was active just 1 day before the event, but not earlier. Edited June 19, 2020 by LanceHardwood 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windia Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, LanceHardwood said: You don't need to be. You just need to have been active within the last 72 hours. 3 minutes before event start should still count. I got drafted when I was active just 1 day before the event, but not earlier. K, I misread that part then, thank you very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaser Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 (edited) No idea what´s up, but I loged out, cleared my cache, resettet my Browser, and still no idea where you have hidden that new contest seeing as it is not available for me anywhere (in both HH and GH!).... Edited June 19, 2020 by chaser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeMTO Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 1 minute ago, chaser said: No idea what´s up, but I loged out, cleared my cache, resettet my Browser, and still no idea where you have hidden that new contest seeing as it is not available for me anywhere.... Was your test server account above level 20 when the day reset? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaser Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 So you are saying I needed a Testserver account to join that contest in the normal game? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCP Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 This event is currently only on the test server. It will be on the main server at the end of the month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaser Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 that would explain a lot^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bamboocha Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 (edited) The second table is the most optimistic variant Edited June 19, 2020 by Bamboocha 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windia Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 30 minutes ago, Bamboocha said: The second table is the most optimistic variant Thanks again. Do you mind to edit your post to stress the lower bound (how man are guaranteed) and your assumed likelihood in between and then the maximum player that are possible? For me it looks usually that player think they will win because 76% is the majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now