fasti Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 First of: Cool with a new feature and nice to have something to spend tickets on. That being said, there are imho two major flaws to the current feature. Primarily the massive RNG and the encouragement of anti-social behaviour (or rather intra-club competition) that makes it possible for trolls to screw over the club Both these could easily be solved by tweaking the reward system. example: Raise the floor to 5* shards (i.e-5-x shards for victory) lower the ceiling to 25 shards (i.e:5-max 25 shards for victory) After the max shard reward is achieved, all effort would only help your clubmates (very slightly) improve their rewards. If the champion is not defeated you will gain nothing. *As the rest period is 24 hours 5+% would only just be enough for active low levels to get the reward within the 1 month rotation. There are many other ways the rewards could be tweeked to achieve the same goal, this was just an example. I like the idea of raid-like battles but with the current setup it seems a better chioce for me to burst down the champion than working with members of my club....which is ok, but in my view hardly optimal. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowWeaver Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 19 hours ago, DvDivXXX said: Well yeah, if you don't have a (real) club, then you're not going to be in a great position to play the club battles. No surprise there. That's not a defect of the feature, it would be imbalanced if clubs that are 3/4 empty were able to ace it, don't you think? Maybe it's the wake-up call some you guys needed to start searching for an active club? Not everybody can get into a fully active club with a bunch of strong members. So let me guess, who cares about those people? They're probably not whales anyway so they don't matter. I joined a low level club with newer players so I could help it and them grow. However I can't carry them now as I am free player so I can't waste kobans on a bunch of rest skips. Then again as I'm a free player, I don't matter. By the way, what a wonderful attitude to have as a moderator. Telling people everything is fine and to quit their clubs to find "real" clubs, really classy. 11 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windia Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 (edited) What I like from the individual champions: when the cooldown is over, I can already set up my girls - and leave. With the CC (Club champion) this is impossible - is the cool down over, the new 24h start right away - no fight happened. That sounds less nice - because I cannot "just look and go". E.g. when club rule is "start at 18:00" - then any look (town info is not very handy) will start it anyway! Why is that so? Can it be changed that the 24h of "impress the champion" start with the first fight please? Edited February 11, 2021 by windia 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windia Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 4 minutes ago, ShadowWeaver said: Not everybody can get into a fully active club with a bunch of strong members. So let me guess, who cares about those people? They're probably not whales anyway so they don't matter. I joined a low level club with newer players so I could help it and them grow. However I can't carry them now as I am free player so I can't waste kobans on a bunch of rest skips. Then again as I'm a free player, I don't matter. [...] That is why I dislike the 100% reset after 24h at all. With the 10% loss like normal champions even small/casual clubs would have a chance to proceed. And there would be no "gets back one tier after 10 losses" - whyever would I want that? 10 days loosing for a slightly easier Club Champion? Then make Tier choice! 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerard Cocks Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 39 minutes ago, windia said: That is why I dislike the 100% reset after 24h at all. With the 10% loss like normal champions even small/casual clubs would have a chance to proceed. And there would be no "gets back one tier after 10 losses" - whyever would I want that? 10 days loosing for a slightly easier Club Champion? Then make Tier choice! Yes that would be a major improvement. I is very unlikely that my club will get to 100% in 24 hours. In my club there are only a handful of high level players that can make any impact on the current champion. For me it is simply too high level, to be of any seroius help for the club 😪. Maybe I don`t understand the game very well, but to me this feature, as it is now, is seriously broken. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xemnas Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 (edited) 58 minutes ago, windia said: That is why I dislike the 100% reset after 24h at all. With the 10% loss like normal champions even small/casual clubs would have a chance to proceed. And there would be no "gets back one tier after 10 losses" - whyever would I want that? 10 days loosing for a slightly easier Club Champion? Then make Tier choice! I like this new feature a lot, but after testing it i have to agree with this. Still is a very good feature but is pretty hard to be done. The most thing that i don't like is the total reset (this thing is a big "black hole", i mean is all or nothing with "waste" of tickets and kobans). So yes the change i would surely like the most is a % impression loss instead of all to 0, mostly because we have a sad real life to live outside the beautiful haremverse XD, so we can't afford to fight all the day without a break. (Still good job on girls and bosses) Edited February 11, 2021 by Xemnas 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowman22 Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 I have the opposite problem. Somebody in my club is jumping on the CC and finishing him in less than an hour so nobody else is getting any shards. 2 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator DvDivXXX Posted February 11, 2021 Moderator Share Posted February 11, 2021 3 hours ago, ShadowWeaver said: Not everybody can get into a fully active club with a bunch of strong members. So let me guess, who cares about those people? They're probably not whales anyway so they don't matter. You seem relatively new around here, so I'll be gentle (this once). You are misguided in your wild assumptions, on this topic. So I'll elaborate a bit. For starters, there's a massive difference between "I can't afford a 5-star hotel" and "so I guess I'll just sleep on that bench in the park"... Way to miss the point and build a strawman to hit at instead. I made my previous comment after a couple of posts that clearly showed they were made by guys in utterly dead, empty clubs. Any somewhat active club that isn't mostly empty and doesn't have an inactive account as "club leader" would be a big improvement over that (not just for this feature, mind you, but for the game in general). I'm not saying you need to apply to a top 10 club. Beyond that, the Club Champion's level (and overall strength) varies based on the total power club members can dish out relative to how many club members participate in the fights. So a small club with low-level players, as long as they're active and agree to hit the CC, should have a fairly decent shot. That's a whole different situation for a large but largely empty club where only a couple of mid-level dudes are actually tackling the feature. Find a decent club for your level and how active you are, and you should find the Champion will be a much better match for your collective strength. Again, you don't have to be in a top-tier club, or to have mostly high-level players. In fact, the more high-level players you have, the stronger the champion becomes (and vice versa). As for your F2P vs whale conspiracy rant, that's wildly off-topic and a completely unfounded assumption (or accusation, even). The feature is balanced. Any real club can do it. And no, contrary to your other wrong assumption, I'm not 12 years old, so what I mean by "a real club" isn't a joke at your expense for not being in a top-tier veteran club. I literally mean a club that's alive and well, not the corpse of what used to or could have been a club, as the posts I was addressing described. 3 hours ago, ShadowWeaver said: By the way, what a wonderful attitude to have as a moderator. Telling people everything is fine and to quit their clubs to find "real" clubs, really classy. As I mentioned above, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt this once. Mods moderate, and they're also forum regulars. They don't have to meet your or any other random user's expectations or fantasies about how they should speak when they're participating in a discussion, just because they are mods. Pointing out that someone is a mod and attempting to shame them for not behaving like your butler is frowned upon, and only shows that you're new to the forum and unfamiliar with how it is moderated. Leave this well enough alone in the future, friendly advice. I hope this helps, and you and other posters who seem to struggle with this feature without realizing that the main problem is that they're in a dead club and not the feature itself will follow my advice. The feature should get a lot easier once you actually have a real group of fellow players to play it with. That being said, if further abuse comes my way over this, I'll moderate it accordingly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocJD Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 (edited) 11 hours ago, fasti said: First of: Cool with a new feature and nice to have something to spend tickets on. That being said, there are imho two major flaws to the current feature. Primarily the massive RNG and the encouragement of anti-social behaviour (or rather intra-club competition) that makes it possible for trolls to screw over the club Both these could easily be solved by tweaking the reward system. example: Raise the floor to 5* shards (i.e-5-x shards for victory) lower the ceiling to 25 shards (i.e:5-max 25 shards for victory) After the max shard reward is achieved, all effort would only help your clubmates (very slightly) improve their rewards. If the champion is not defeated you will gain nothing. *As the rest period is 24 hours 5+% would only just be enough for active low levels to get the reward within the 1 month rotation. There are many other ways the rewards could be tweeked to achieve the same goal, this was just an example. I like the idea of raid-like battles but with the current setup it seems a better chioce for me to burst down the champion than working with members of my club....which is ok, but in my view hardly optimal. How can a troll get into your club? As far as i can tell, only club members can join the battles or even leave comments in the club chat. Unless for "troll" you mean disfunctional club members such as yourself? Edited February 11, 2021 by DvDivXXX Mod edit: added a quote from the dupe thread merged here 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chthugha Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 4 hours ago, Xemnas said: I like this new feature a lot, but after testing it i have to agree with this. Still is a very good feature but is pretty hard to be done. The most thing that i don't like is the total reset (this thing is a big "black hole", i mean is all or nothing with "waste" of tickets and kobans). So yes the change i would surely like the most is a % impression loss instead of all to 0, mostly because we have a sad real life to live outside the beautiful haremverse XD, so we can't afford to fight all the day without a break. (Still good job on girls and bosses) But 100% is also a percentage 😄 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karyia Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 Another "vote" against the 100% impression loss. Having multiple people expend (considerable) time and resources into something just to have it erased like nothing happened is too harsh. After all, anyone has other things outside the game that can prevent them from participating. Like the single champions feature, there can be a penalty but 100% is just awful. And a "vote" in using the contribution points some way. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fasti Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 7 hours ago, DocJD said: How can a troll get into your club? As far as i can tell, only club members can join the battles or even leave comments in the club chat. Unless for "troll" you mean disfunctional club members such as yourself? We had a low level player refresh the champ just to have a high level rush it down a couple of hours later. I would consider this troll behaviour. We are not a large club and most people don't use the chat, so I am unaware to what extend the "troll" was aware of his/her percieved misbehaviour. What could have been a team-building effort have surely not turned out like that in our club....meh As stated I don't mind the feature. I can rush down the champ and get a pretty cheap 5*, but I would be doing so without or even against other members of my club. This is why I regard the feature as encouraging "anti-social" behaviour 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator DvDivXXX Posted February 12, 2021 Moderator Share Posted February 12, 2021 4 hours ago, fasti said: We are not a large club and most people don't use the chat 4 hours ago, fasti said: This is why I regard the feature as encouraging "anti-social" behaviour And there's the twist. You are already in an anti-social club. This feature is best suited for healthy clubs where members communicate and aren't just a random group of people in it for the bonuses. So what you're pointing out isn't so much a problem of the feature, but of your (type of) club(s). Try coordinating a raid in any MMO or do any other multiplayer activity in any game with people you don't know and don't speak with... It's going to be a mess as well. Hell, if you play any MOBA game, you know that entering a match on your own with 4 other random lonely players is a gamble at best, and of course it will never compare to what you can achieve if you have a group of online friends you form an actual team with. It's a social feature, as are clubs (at least partially) by design. It encourages social behavior. So if your club is a collection of lonesome players who don't socialize at all with one another, then of course that will work against you (and your other club "mates", aka the other phantoms that inhabit the empty shell each and every one of you is stuck in, alone). This might give you and other club members an incentive to start using the chat, or it might give you and others an incentive to find a real live club where people speak, maybe even care for each other a little. This is very similar backwards feedback to the previous complaints by other players about the feature supposedly being too harsh for small or low-level clubs, when what they actually experience is that the feature is hard for dead clubs, whether what members remain are aware the club is dead or not. EDIT: And I think this isn't surprising, as prior to the introduction of the Club Champion, socializing was entirely optional and the only real game mechanic involving clubs was building and then benefiting from the club bonuses. Which tends to encourage freeloading and "no strings attached" mentality unless you happen to be in the mood to meet and greet, and you find fellow players you like to talk to and play with. Well, now there's a new incentive in town. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xemnas Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 13 hours ago, DvDivXXX said: varies based on the total power club members can dish out relative to how many club members participate in the fights. So a small club with low-level players, as long as they're active and agree to hit the CC, should have a fairly decent shot. HI HI i have another question (last one promes sorry, is offtopic): uhm how can i say it.... The club champion's power (if i understood correctly) is based on the club (which is based on the club's player level and power). So having some inactive player is a "damage" ? I have in my club some 100 days + inactive and i didn't want to remove em because.... well.... i feel bad on removing players that have contributed even a little bit. Basically i'm asking: Is it better, for having a good performance on the Club champion, to remove these people ? Will the club champion be more weak and easy to be done ? I hope i have explained well my dilemma 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Kenrae Posted February 12, 2021 Moderator Share Posted February 12, 2021 6 minutes ago, Xemnas said: HI HI i have another question (last one promes sorry, is offtopic): uhm how can i say it.... The club champion's power (if i understood correctly) is based on the club (which is based on the club's player level and power). So having some inactive player is a "damage" ? I have in my club some 100 days + inactive and i didn't want to remove em because.... well.... i feel bad on removing players that have contributed even a little bit. Basically i'm asking: Is it better, for having a good performance on the Club champion, to remove these people ? Will the club champion be more weak and easy to be done ? I hope i have explained well my dilemma It depends. If they're low level they decrease the average level and can make the champion weaker. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mates Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) ''The final reward, after you and your Club members have defeated the Club Champion within the 24-hour limit, you will get Affection shards of the Club Champion girl/guy and some other amazing rewards, depending on your contribution. '' Did anyone of you guys received one of those ''other amazing rewards''? When we finished him today, I did most contributions and received 3 shards, nothing else. Definetely nothing amazing about that. Edited February 12, 2021 by mates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Kenrae Posted February 12, 2021 Moderator Share Posted February 12, 2021 22 minutes ago, mates said: ''The final reward, after you and your Club members have defeated the Club Champion within the 24-hour limit, you will get Affection shards of the Club Champion girl/guy and some other amazing rewards, depending on your contribution. '' Did anyone of you guys received one of those ''other amazing rewards''? When we finished him today, I did most contributions and received 3 shards, nothing else. Definetely nothing amazing about that. I guess they'll add extra rewards after some time. Or maybe you get them once you already have the girl. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator DvDivXXX Posted February 12, 2021 Moderator Share Posted February 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Kenrae said: I guess they'll add extra rewards after some time. Or maybe you get them once you already have the girl. Well, right now, here's what you get for defeating the CC after completing the girl: It still says "all participants" because they just left the text as is, but that's "all participants who already completed Kumiko", in this case. My club mates still get shards for her, but I get one of these. And yes, ONE. There's no range depending on my contribution % or anything. I actually got a flower the first time after obtaining the girl. While I'm in dire need of affection items right now (I have under 100K and I need 2M to upgrade everyone in my harem), this seems far too small of a reward to give club members much incentive to participate as much once they got the girl for themselves. I'm still contributing, of course (because I'm in a healthy club and I want to help out my club mates), but even if I roll a pantsu, this doesn't feel very rewarding. 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer_X Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 There's one thing I don't understand, and I am also unable to understand if it is a bug. In the feature notes is reported that the club champions, as the standard champions, should have five poses, so I expected that, when my club first defeated Chad, to see his second pose in the next round, but while I am writing this, my club is pounding him for the fourth time, but his pose is alwas the same. Am I missing something here? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCP Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 27 minutes ago, Observer_X said: There's one thing I don't understand, and I am also unable to understand if it is a bug. In the feature notes is reported that the club champions, as the standard champions, should have five poses, so I expected that, when my club first defeated Chad, to see his second pose in the next round, but while I am writing this, my club is pounding him for the fourth time, but his pose is alwas the same. Am I missing something here? They are talking about the 5 girl poses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator DvDivXXX Posted February 12, 2021 Moderator Share Posted February 12, 2021 2 hours ago, Observer_X said: I expected that, when my club first defeated Chad Yeah, go home my friend. You're drunk! ^^ It's the girl fighting for Chad who has only one pose, just like say Murane or Shtupra or... Any other regular champion girl. But the champion selects 5 poses you must match in your draft before facing him (well, technically, Kumiko in this case). It works exactly like all other champions in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 So the club I'm in is chipping at this slowly, we were able to beat him the first day. However the only reason I can see why we didn't beat him the second time while I was away from the game is because his impression reset and I gained no shards. This seems somewhat strange that no "failure" screen happened like it does for other content including other champions. At first I couldn't even tell if it just didn't tell me if I got shards or not. Yeah failure screens suck to get but at least its clear what happened. Also agree that impressions shouldn't be completely reset after 24 hours, but will see what happens goin forward. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlynx Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 Aaa~nd this time in the right thread... feedback doesn't always go in the feedback section. Got it. Sorry @DvDivXXX. As I've already written here... ... I really like the new feature. Gives clubs something to do, makes them feel more meaningful. What I don't like are the subtle ''yeah, go find a real club you n00b / how did you even survive until now?''-vibes, when up until 5 minutes ago the game didn't even have those MMO mechanics. I think the comparison to raids in real MMOs is flawed because in those games it is part of the core gameplay that you have to expect when starting to play. In a not very sophisticated solo player browser game the sudden need (if you really wanna ''catch them all'', which is kind of the goal of this game) to band together to achieve something just feels artificial to me. And as far as I can tell I'm not the only one. Clubs are a wonderful thing, especially when they are big and full of active players, but they were always completely optional as related to the goal of the game and I think they should still be. Make them more meaningful - great, I'm in support of this even if I'm not a very clubby guy (not the same as being antisocial, mind you). Give active clubs real benefits like koban or valuable items when they continue beating the champions although they already have the girls. Maybe even just like the massive benefits for the top D3 players. But please don't hide main objectives of the game behind a sudden ''be social or get lost''-barrier that wasn't there before. There are solid arguments for other perspectives on the matter. I get it, really. But I still think clubs - especially clubs of a certain size, power or liveliness - shouldn't be mandatory. Just a fun little extra for everyone who wants to engage in this kind of stuff. So, nice new feature, and as Xemnas already said: very good job on the girls/bosses... but make this fun for everyone. I don't think this would do any harm here. Not in the club section of the game. 3 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X-Tandem-X Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 Doesn't work for small clubs / It takes to many tickets to defeat champion in a smaller club / 24 hours isn't long enough for a smaller club / Some members are MIA including many club leaders in these smaller clubs. Not worth it just a money grab. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karyia Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 8 hours ago, Observer_X said: There's one thing I don't understand, and I am also unable to understand if it is a bug. In the feature notes is reported that the club champions, as the standard champions, should have five poses, so I expected that, when my club first defeated Chad, to see his second pose in the next round, but while I am writing this, my club is pounding him for the fourth time, but his pose is alwas the same. Am I missing something here? Maybe you're talking about stages? 😅 The single-player champions all have 5 stages, if that's what you're aiming at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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