[ August 2nd, 2023 ] Girl Skills 💡

[DvDivXXX]

1 hour ago, Ravi-Sama said:

Made an experimental team w/ 4 nose dive girls, and 5 green eyed girls, for Mavin and Rin's tier 3 girl skills.  They're all lvl 750.  Gave them my best common RE (all lvl 3-4).  They have a decent 190k TP, and 175k Atk before the LM is applied.  201.1k Atk w/ 4 cords and an LM.

Mavin's Nose Dive: 4 * 0.6% = 2.4% -> 1.024
Rin's Green Eyes: 5 * 0.6% = 3% -> 1.03

This is fascinating. I've been toying with similar combos. I don't have Mythic Noemy. The best I could come up with was 5 Nose Dive girls and 2 Blue Eyes girls, with one bonus each (using Metal Noemy instead of Rin).

If I understand correctly, at least as long as we have only one girl with the active trait providing each buff, the thing that really matters is how many matches of each buffed trait you have in your team overall? Whether it's 7 girls all sharing the one buffed trait, or 4 girls for one buffed trait and 3 for another one, same total buff, right?

So your setup is better than mine as you have 9 matches in total, whereas I only have 7 using Metal Noemy instead of Rin (she's Nose Dive herself, so +1 match for that, but she buffs Blue Eyes, so in my case only Mythic Lyka and herself instead of 5 people in your team, somehow ^^).

If I swapped out Metal Noemy for Rin (along with the exchange of green bulbs for 95M* Ymens), I'd have 4 matches for the Nose Dive buff, and 4 matches for the Green Eyes buff, so 8 in total. Which wouldn't match your 9 matches, but still be better than my current 7 matches.

Of course, the instant you get even two girls giving a buff for the same trait, this changes drastically. 5 matches if I had a second buff for Nose Dive would become the equivalent of 10 matches on its own (so 12 total with the 2 Blue Eyes matches), again if I understood correctly.

[Horsting]

5 minutes ago, Ravi-Sama said:

Click on these icons, or navigate to this menu at the top:

I guess the icons are missing with Harem++, and it is not maintained anymore, right?  

4 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

hether it's 7 girls all sharing the one buffed trait, or 4 girls for one buffed trait and 3 for another one, same total buff, right?

Right, but a 7*6 (max possible) bonus is unlikely to be possible with mixed traits. So the more matches you want, the more you need to go with a single trait, I guess.

Edited August 7, 2023 by Horsting

[DvDivXXX]

19 minutes ago, Horsting said:

Right, but a 7*6 bonus is unlikely to be possible with mixed traits. So the more matches you want, the more you need to go with a single trait, I guess.

Sure, long term banking on one trait with multiple buffers for it will be the best bet.

Short term, I've noticed that if I swap out Tano for Dve, I get the same result as swapping Metal Noemy for Rin: still 5 Nose Dive matches and now also 3 matches for Blue Eyes. It's even a bit better as Tano has older stats compared to Dve (plus I don't have to spend 100M Ymens to move around green bulbs that won't be relevant next week, or most weeks for that matter).

Thank you both.

[Ravi-Sama]

5 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

Of course, the instant you get even two girls giving a buff for the same trait, this changes drastically. 5 matches if I had a second buff for Nose Dive would become the equivalent of 10 matches on its own (so 12 total with the 2 Blue Eyes matches), again if I understood correctly.

Yeah, there's a way to make it twice as effective, by matching girls that boost the same exact trait.  Also, mixing and matching them is better than just having 7 of one trait, but initially I just chose them b/c they were all blessed.

6 hours ago, Horsting said:

Would be interesting whether replacing one of the yellow L5* in your team with a (maxed) common green eyes or nose dive trait girl also makes the team stronger.

I maxed Cunegonde's girl skills to test @Horsting's theory, about swapping out a green eyed playful girl, for a green eyed Dom girl.

Swapped in Cunegonde (19.91 base) for Tano (31.85 base).  TP dropped from 190 to 181k, but Atk rose from 201.1k to 204.4k.  I lost ~20k ego & 1k defense, so I doubt it's worth it.  If I still had to fight the pantheon, something like this might've been worth it.

 

5 hours ago, Horsting said:

I guess the icons are missing with Harem++, and it is not maintained anymore, right?

Yep, I switch to the old harem page for girl skills.

[Horsting]

1 hour ago, Ravi-Sama said:

Atk rose from 201.1k to 204.4k.  I lost ~20k ego & 1k defense, so I doubt it's worth it.

Seems so, but of course you could compare the actual HH++ odds on some opponents, to be sure. However, probably girls' level 650 (me) vs 750 also makes a difference here, or that I have an overall larger tier 3 skill bonus (EDIT: That will be it: your 5.4% vs my 8.4%).

1 hour ago, Ravi-Sama said:

Also, mixing and matching them is better than just having 7 of one trait

Why? I doubt that one will get the full 33.6% AP bonus with a mixed team. Or at least the possible combinations where all girls match the different trait of all other girls will be rare or hard to find. But we already know all possible combinations of girls with the same trait to get the full bonus. Of course one is limited regarding the classes, but with sensual and dom this is probably not such an issue, at least not for the offensive team.

EDIT:

1 hour ago, DvDivXXX said:

Mavin's Nose Dive: 4 * 0.6% = 2.4% -> 1.024
Rin's Green Eyes: 5 * 0.6% = 3% -> 1.03

Wait, do you mean you have 4 Nose Dive girls in your team and 5 green eyed girls? Because then your bonus should be only (3+4)*0.6%=4.2%, or 1.018*1.024=1.0424 (if each girl's skill bonus is multiplied), as e.g. Mavin gets the bonus once for each other girl with a matching trait, not for herself, right?

Edited August 7, 2023 by Horsting

[DvDivXXX]

6 hours ago, Horsting said:

Mavin gets the bonus once for each other girl with a matching trait, not for herself, right?

No, Mavin counts. It's a buff for each girl in the team that has the relevant trait (aka "attribute" basically, they just decided to use a synonym for this feature instead of the term they were already using for Blessings). She's in the team and she has the trait she buffs (the trait a girl can buff is always one she has), so she counts for one. The one buffing a trait always receives it.

But where it gets really exciting is that this stacks up for every additional team member also buffing the same trait. So for instance, in my team I have 5 girls with the Nose Dive "trait" (attribute), including Mavin, who has her Nose Dive trait bonus active. That applies her buff 5 times. If one of the other 4 girls also had her own Nose Dive bonus active (obv not gonna happen for me anytime soon, with my 8 purple and 2 red bulbs), then that girl's own bonus would also apply 5 times. And so on.

They said so in the patch notes:

Quote

Tier 3

Trait Bonus

These bonuses stack between the girls with the same Trait

• For example, if the player has two Dominatrix girls with Blue eyes, both girls take the bonus from each other. Maximum %Ego is developed on both girls so the total bonus is 1% times two girls in the team = 2% and this is true for both girls so the end bonus is 4% Ego.

And as far as I can tell, it seems to work that way. This checks out:

7 hours ago, Ravi-Sama said:

 

Edited August 7, 2023 by DvDivXXX
updated

[Horsting]

21 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

No, Mavin counts. It's a buff for each girl in the team that has the relevant trait

Ah, I was calculating with this first, and then I thought I must be wrong, and now it was actually right 😂. Okay, so then I have a bigger bonus than I though:

• 7*(0.6%+0.8%)=9.8%

Or do the bonuses given by each girl stack multiplicatively? Then it would be:

• ((1+7*0.006)*(1+7*0.008)-1)*100%=10.0352%

21 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

But where it gets really exciting is that this stacks up for every additional team member also buffing the same trait.

Yes, this is how I got the 33.6%, but with above correction it is actually 39.2%. And mythics give +1% bonus, so with e.g. the 2 mythics from Dom/Eccentric & Blue Eyes trait, 42% bonus is possible. If the bonuses stacked multiplicatively, it would be:

• 1.07²*1.056^5=1.5034 => 50.34% bonus.

This easily overpowers all blessings completely.

Edited August 7, 2023 by Horsting

[Ravi-Sama]

On 7/24/2023 at 12:33 PM, Antimon said:

- For Legendary girls: Tier I 6 points; Tier II 9 points; Tier III 4 points; Tier IV ? points

If I had 7 more legendary bulbs (19 total), then I'd max Beatrix's (or Ryoko/Tano) tier 3, and then get to witness an extra 2.4% atk boost.  Which would be like swapping in Cunegonde, but w/o the TP/ego/def loss.  Maybe it'll be possible later in the week.

[Horsting]

Some more thoughts:

• The current blessings clearly speak for skilling yellow/blue with Nose Dive or Doggie Style, but generally, at least for players in earlier progress stages (smaller harems/less matches and skill reset out of question due to Ymen shortage), prioritising dark(/red) with blue or green eyes should be the better long term strategy.
• They are by far the largest groups with matching trait. I can see it already now: I can form already not so weak groups with all blue or green eyes and several of them dark/red with the hence matching trait skill. The more girls, the higher the chance that they match blessings or mythic GG as well, respectively the higher the pool from which you can pick the best each week.
• There are more hair colours than eye colours in the game (19 vs 14), hence the amount of matching girls each is smaller. There are maaany blond girls, but not many of them are L5* of M6*. Also the elements where hair colour is the trait (green and silver) are weaker.
• Zodiac signs are moreless equally distributed, hence no very large pools, and also here the elements (orange and violet) are weaker.
• Blue and yellow are probably the strongest element combination, with column and nose dive shared by many strong girls as well. But one thing that bugs me here is that having many girls with the same pose (and hence also class) in the team means that it is unlikely to have, respectively it takes much longer to get good GG for them. With the favourite pose variation among the blue/green eyed dark/red group, it is much easier to have or get matching GG. Not relevant as long as one uses levelled common gear only, but once one has some good mythics (and maybe legendaries, still not sure whether worth it or not) and enough material to level them a little, this likely starts to collide and can play a role.

One issue with this skill being so strong: My mythics will mostly need to stay at home. I did not yet finish the math/tests, but I think e.g. I should level Alluza (dom with blue eyes) before my new mythic Blessed Elphiba (dom with golden eyes). With the pool of girls I have and will have mid-term, the blue eyes trait bonus will easily overpower the mythic vs L5* difference, and of course she is much cheaper to max. This fact is actually pretty sad ...

Edited August 8, 2023 by Horsting

[Ravi-Sama]

25 minutes ago, Horsting said:

One issue with this skill being so strong: My mythics will mostly need to stay at home. I did not yet finish the math/tests, but I think e.g. I should level Alluza (dom with blue eyes) before my new mythic Blessed Elphiba (dom with golden eyes). With the pool of girls I have and will have mid-term, the blue eyes trait bonus will easily overpower the mythic vs L5* difference, and of course she is much cheaper to max. This fact is actually pretty sad ...

My advice is not to worry about leveling girls in advance just based on a hunch that they'll be useful.  Instead save your affection, gxp, and gems for completely maxing girls, only when you know they'll actually be useful, for one or two weeks due to blessings.  If you do this instead, then eventually some awesome blessings will appear, which you can use to break multiple walls in the pantheon, and won't be short on resources.

For example, Esme is technically the best girl in the game attribute-wise, since she's the only M6 w/ both dual hair and eye colors.  She's blessed atm, but I haven't maxed her yet, b/c I found better synergy w/ other girls.

Also, when we had dom 35% & legendary 35% blessings last June, I was still able to beat the pantheon's 2,000th wall, but barely w/ a 1.495% chance, and 12 tries.  It would've been much easier (7%+) if I saved more dom gems/gxp in advance.

---------------------

Made some progress already on the legendary bulbs.  Have 14 now, so just need 5 more.  Fighting champions is working.

[Horsting]

14 hours ago, Ravi-Sama said:

My advice is not to worry about leveling girls in advance just based on a hunch that they'll be useful.  Instead save your affection, gxp, and gems for completely maxing girls, only when you know they'll actually be useful

Yes of course. But there are more girls immediately useful than I can max, and I have blubs now which I can use either on one or the other now, which will help me both immediately. So I am thinking which girls really will be the best long-term or at least mid-term benefit. The way I see it, this skill overpowers many blessings and GG, while blessings at least are random (with Zodiac sign and favourite pose having only slightly higher chance to match than eye colour: 1/12 vs 1/13 as "unkown" cannot be enrolled, I guess), so I give blubs now to those which match the strategy + which I have otherwise maxed already to have an immediate + best mid/long-term benefit.

EDIT: I was somehow throwing together two things: Levelling and upgrading a girl, and the dedicated question whether/when to skill her. You are absolutely right that there is no point to start levelling and upgrading (and also skilling) a girl, unless you can finish it, or at least do it until a point where she gives you immediate benefit. In the particular case you were referring to: I will be able to max out Alluza very soon (started today just because of CbC already), while it would take much longer to wait for the needed gems and Aff items to max out Elphiba. And furthermore, because of her blue eyes, she will already now be probably an overall slightly stronger team member. And as soon as I have sufficient bulbs, she will join the already now strong synergy group of blue eyed dom girls, being 3 L5* and 1 C5* + several strong blue eyed girls with other colours. I am pretty sure my offensive battle teans will consist for a longer time at least of the 3 L5*, with blessings only deciding about the remaining 4 slots.

Edited August 8, 2023 by Horsting

[MrXY]

The discussion on the last few pages showed me at least some positive things about this new feature. It offers new strategic options. I'm not really deep into this new topic now and I skipped some parts of your text walls (don't take it negative please, I appreciate your effort, I just don't have the time for the details).

I didn't expect that. I first thought this is only some additional P2W stuff which doesn't offer real gameplay value, now I can see some positive things here. If we just would have a useful UI to do all the necessary micro management without Excel spreadsheets and a lot of needed time. For now this is too much complexity for me for this type of game. Maybe I'm getting used to it. Because of the lack of Bulbs there is no pressure. But I hope we get more than what we experience now. The costs for switching every week is way too high and collecting enough bulbs to satisfy the demands takes years (?).

[Karxan]

i find we need a "Supremely Confused/Dumbfounded/Stupefied" emoji... then right on cue i run out of my daily emoji allowance...

so much to unpack here, i'll need to reread on multiple days...

um, wait!  So you're telling me there ARE FOUR LIGHTS?

[EpicBacon]

If you have less then 7 bulbs of a certain quality, there is no point even thinking about upgrading, as you need to use 6 of them on tier1, the money part, and that does not really matter at all in the long run

[Ravi-Sama]

Next week, submissive has the strongest blessing at 40%.  It makes sense to pay attention to hair colors, since that's their trait.

Max TP will be 297.93 * 750 lvls = 223,447.5 TP, but ignoring girl skills. 

I tried to find sets of girls that had favorable tier 3 skill boosts.  Theorized 4 teams w/ 200k+ TP and 1.2-2.4% skill atk boosts.  Also, experimented w/ blue/green eyed & green/white haired teams w/ commons as a base girl, but they had much lower TP, when aiming for a high dmg boost.  Pink, Red, Blond, & Black haired teams have potential, b/c they have at least 3 L5 girls, blessed w/ 28.56 and above base sum stats, for next week.

The best common sense middle ground I found was w/ Pink hair, which matched 3 L5s and 1 M6, and I paired them w/ 3 other blessed M6s, for 204.1k TP and a 2.4% skill atk boost.  That's a little more than an extra Dom or mythic gear.  It requires upgrading a pink haired/submissive legendary girl's tier 3 skills, w/ 19 legendary bulbs (6, 9, & 4).  I picked Quarter Master Abraël as a potential upgrade candidate, since she also has dual blue/golden eye colors.

Blonde hair is also pretty good, able to match 5 blessed L5 girls, and 4 M6s.  It had 203.9k TP and a 1.8% skill atk boost.  Also, need to upgrade a submissive L5's tier 3, and either Dayan or Miley would work.  Layla would work as well, and she has dual blond/silver hair colors, but a lower base stat, so I find that less desirable.

Regarding counter teams, 2x M6 Doms have golden eyes, and 2x have blue eyes.  There's 8x L5 Doms w/ blue eyes.  Blue eyes seem like the route to take.  Common Abraël can unlock that tier 3 trait boost easily.

Just something to contemplate and tinker with.

[Horsting]

42 minutes ago, Ravi-Sama said:

The best common sense middle ground I found was w/ Pink hair, which matched 3 L5s and 1 M6, and I paired them w/ 3 other blessed M6s, for 204.1k TP and a 2.4% skill atk boost.  That's a little more than an extra Dom or mythic gear.  It requires upgrading a pink haired/submissive legendary girl's tier 3 skills, w/ 19 legendary bulbs (6, 9, & 4).  I picked Quarter Master Abraël as a potential upgrade candidate, since she also has dual blue/golden eye colors.

Right, same thought here. Aside of Quartermaster Abraël and Bunny, Dorothy is another submissive L5 with pink hair newer players (like me) could get. After skilling my second blue eyed L5 dom some days ago, I only have 16 bulbs left, so will most likely only be able to skill Abraël. But if anyone has more, those two give a nice double synergy. And Bunna of course at least also has pink hair as well. Just sad that her trait is her other grey hair colour, which is so rare that skilling her is probably a waste of mythic bulbs, at least if one did not buy bulb bundles.

EDIT: Checking for exhibitionist L5 I have with pink hair sharing the trait: Kumiko from CC Chad and Jessie, which is from BB last year. Where the hell did I get her from? Must have been one of the KV event drops, right? What a shame that I just forgot it 😅.

EDIT2: Nope, Jessie was no drop in KV according to the event thread. I am confused. I got her somewhere between last BB and the end of the regular SE. Does anyone have a clue??

EDIT3: Ah Seasonal Recumming was it! Didn't I tell elsewhere that those are too many events for my taste? 😄

Edited August 12, 2023 by Horsting

[Antimon]

*le me reading these super useful comments on how to spend lightbulbs next week having gathered 10 legendary lightbulbs so far*

Edited August 13, 2023 by Antimon

[DvDivXXX]

I feel you.

[Miccia]

I'm having trouble understanding the benefits of Tier 3.
At most, for each girl with the same characteristic, it gives 1% attack.
So if I have seven girls with the same trait, does 7% affect the attack strength of the single girl or the entire team?
And if, for example, I have to choose between a girl with a Max Base Sum of 40 and a Max Base Sum of 35 who, however, gives me tier 3 +1% attack, how do I understand which one to choose?

[Tom208]

I have my own theory about this new update and it's very simple: girl skills don't exist. 

This theory makes pvp combats more simple and in bonus, you don't care about light bulbs drop. 

[DvDivXXX]

58 minutes ago, Miccia said:

So if I have seven girls with the same trait, does 7% affect the attack strength of the single girl or the entire team?

It's important to differentiate "trait" (just a synonym for what we normally call "attribute") and "trait bonus" (the actual skill, once leveled up). If you have 7 girls with blue eyes, and 1 of them has the blue eyes "trait bonus" skill leveled up, then you already get +7% in total (each girl who has the "trait" counts for the bonus, including the girl providing the bonus).

But these bonuses stack. That's explicitly mentioned in the blog article.

If you have just 2 of your 7 blue eyes girls with the blue eyes skill maxed out, you jump to a whopping +14% attack bonus. In the absolute best case scenario, a team of 7 blue eyes girls who all have the blue eyes skill maxed out, then you get a ridiculous +49% attack bonus.

PS: I've used +1% as the baseline here but keep in mind these skills have different caps per rarity. A rare can only get 3 levels, so a 0.60% bonus, for instance. I don't remember off the top of my head what the maximum is for an epic or a legendary, but I think the cap at 5 levels (+1% bonus) is only for mythics. Someone else could confirm.

Still, even if you had a team of 7 assorted rares all with the same trait and all with the skill that buffs that trait maxed out, that's already 0.6% times 49 = +29.40% attack. Which is already batshit insane.

Edited August 13, 2023 by DvDivXXX
PS

[bolitho76]

From my test-server account. Fully maxed Skills at Nubia:

[Horsting]

2 hours ago, Miccia said:

So if I have seven girls with the same trait, does 7% affect the attack strength of the single girl or the entire team?

Keep in mind that girls have no AP, defence, ego or any such final attribute, at least not in PvP, i.e. all such bonuses which are not about raising the girl's HK/CH/KH always apply to the whole team.

[Miccia]

If it doesn't already exist, it would be interesting to have an excel file that allows you to compare two teams for next week also considering skills.
As I said for me, before there are new blessings, it's incomprehensible if it's better to team up a girl who increases my skill advantages over another stronger one.

[Ravi-Sama]

On 8/12/2023 at 7:49 PM, Antimon said:

*le me reading these super useful comments on how to spend lightbulbs next week having gathered 10 legendary lightbulbs so far*

I don't have enough yet either.  I have 16 legendary bulbs (need 19).  Was hoping to get 3 more by next week. 🤞🏽

Blessings are gonna change soon, so figured it was a good time to start planning ahead.

On 8/13/2023 at 4:49 AM, Miccia said:

I'm having trouble understanding the benefits of Tier 3.
At most, for each girl with the same characteristic, it gives 1% attack.
So if I have seven girls with the same trait, does 7% affect the attack strength of the single girl or the entire team?
And if, for example, I have to choose between a girl with a Max Base Sum of 40 and a Max Base Sum of 35 who, however, gives me tier 3 +1% attack, how do I understand which one to choose?

The ultimate choice should be based on which team gives a higher score.  TP used to be a good gauge of strength since the higher it was, the more Atk you had.  It gets divided by 4, added to the players' stats, then multiplied by boosters.  Now, you can have higher Atk via girl skills, w/o raising TP.  Downside is that only Atk is boosted, no other stats.  Checking each team's final atk is probably useful.  I'll try to figure it out.

On 8/13/2023 at 5:40 AM, DvDivXXX said:

PS: I've used +1% as the baseline here but keep in mind these skills have different caps per rarity. A rare can only get 3 levels, so a 0.60% bonus, for instance. I don't remember off the top of my head what the maximum is for an epic or a legendary, but I think the cap at 5 levels (+1% bonus) is only for mythics. Someone else could confirm.

Yeah, the Atk boost % is different based on the rarities.  I often forget this.  Not even considering upgrading a mythic yet, b/c I can't, so was surprised seeing 1%.  All my calculations so far were based on 0.6%.  Meaning some of my estimates are a bit off regarding the legendary girls.

Tier 3 Trait Max Atk % boost per girl w/ matching trait (including the original)
Common/Starting (3/3): 0.6%
Rare (3/3): 0.6%
Epic (4/4): 0.8%
Legendary (4/4): 0.8%
Mythic (5/5): 1%

On 8/13/2023 at 8:23 AM, Miccia said:

If it doesn't already exist, it would be interesting to have an excel file that allows you to compare two teams for next week also considering skills.
As I said for me, before there are new blessings, it's incomprehensible if it's better to team up a girl who increases my skill advantages over another stronger one.

Knowing the actual Atk boost % from girl skills, after you've assembled a team would be helpful.  It'll be obvious in your actual atk stat.  Whether it's better than a traditional high TP team, could be checked by creating both teams, and seeing their E[X] vs. the same player.  I'll try to make an example, but it'll be easier to do after blessings change.  Higher TP also means higher defense and ego, not just atk.  If TP is too low, then you're sacrificing other stats.  That's why I ignored teams w/ less than 200k TP for next week.

Edited August 14, 2023 by Ravi-Sama
Added: Epic (4/4): 0.8%.