[ August 2nd, 2023 ] Girl Skills 💡

[Horsting]

2 hours ago, Antimon said:

do we know whether it is better to maximize the girl main stat or getting 200 total stat more by maximazing the third tier II skill node? 

Check out older comments in this thread:

• For PvP, +70/70 secondary stats is always the best, as it is +140 stat sum, which is more than +100 or +1% in all cases.
• For PvE (champions and PoPs), raising the main stat is best, as this is all what counts for champion AP and PoP power.
• +1% main stats is more than +100 if the girl's maxed (but unbuffed) main stat is >10.000, which is true for all M6* and L5* girls (level 750) and not true for all others.

Nasty that the flag income bonus gets benefit from club bonus while the percentage bonus does not, which creates this nasty hysteresis (not the right word, I know). And it is even more complicated in a non-maxed club, like me, where things still change. However, for a little Ymen more, investing too much time into micro-management for the small number of girls which falls into this range is absolutely not worth it.

[Antimon]

1 ora fa, Horsting ha scritto:

• For PvP, +70/70 secondary stats is always the best, as it is +140 stat sum, which is more than +100 or +1% in all cases.
• For PvE (champions and PoPs), raising the main stat is best, as this is all what counts for champion AP and PoP power.

I must have missed the comment stating thsi. Thank you. (also, note that  some older L5 are slightly weaker and do not reach the 10000 threshold)

Edited August 3, 2023 by Antimon

[Horsting]

5 minutes ago, Antimon said:

some older L5 are slightly weaker and do not reach the 10000 threshold)

Are you sure? They are overall weaker but mostly because of lower secondary stats while the primary one is similar or even higher. But I did not check if for all old L5*. If someone wants to, here are are lists which contain those values: https://harem-battle.club/wiki/Harem-Heroes/HH:Compare-All-Haremettes

[EpicBacon]

8 minutes ago, Horsting said:

Are you sure? They are overall weaker but mostly because of lower secondary stats while the primary one is similar or even higher. But I did not check if for all old L5*. If someone wants to, here are are lists which contain those values: https://harem-battle.club/wiki/Harem-Heroes/HH:Compare-All-Haremettes

Edit - Just did a quick check on the legendaries I have at level 750, 8 in total have less then 10k mainstat; Bianca, Silver Lupa, Norou, Blet, Keiko, Bellona, Amaya and Taria as shown in this screenshot.

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by EpicBacon

[Yamiray]

5 hours ago, EpicBacon said:

yeah, I hope they release some more girls soon, so I can get rid of starter Bunny from my lineup

[Bobick]

9 minutes ago, EpicBacon said:

Edit - Just did a quick check on the legendaries I have at level 750, 8 in total have less then 10k mainstat; Bianca, Silver Lupa, Norou, Blet, Keiko, Bellona, Amaya and Taria as shown in this screenshot.

For Taria and other girls close to 10,000 +1% is the better option as well. Only 1 time +100 brings Taria above the threshold, so that +1% gets more valuable for the other bulbs in any case. Moreover, as part of a team Taria will most likely be equipped and have a >10,000 CH stat anyhow.

[Horsting]

44 minutes ago, Bobick said:

Only 1 time +100 brings Taria above the threshold, so that +1% gets more valuable for the other bulbs in any case.

That is not fully correct/complete, if I am not missing something, as both bonuses either positively affect each other the same way, or not at all. Either it is:

stat = (base stat + flat skill bonus) * percentage skill bonus

in which case +1% indeed gets over the threshold if +100 is added, but the +100 is as well increased in its value the other way round: (9937.5+100)*0.01=100.37 bonus from +1%, but now +100 gives you effectively +101. Given that you spend 5 bulbs in +70/70 anyway, the remaining 4 bulbs (for legendary girls! for common ones it is only 1 bulb left to max the tier => +100 main stat) for this tier would then best be invested x2 in +100 and x2 in +1%.

But I actually thought it is like this:

stat = (base stat * percentage skill bonus) + flat skill bonus

In which case there is no synergy between the skills and +100 remains best.

44 minutes ago, Bobick said:

Moreover, as part of a team Taria will most likely be equipped and have a >10,000 CH stat anyhow.

And the equipment bonus is definitely not increased by the skills, so this cannot be counted. I assume the formula to be like this:

stat = (base stat * percentage skill bonus) + flat skill bonus + GG bonuses

Edited August 3, 2023 by Horsting

[Bobick]

1 hour ago, Horsting said:

Either it is:

stat = (base stat + flat skill bonus) * percentage skill bonus

This is the correct formula, Ravi verified it with Mavin. But you are right of course, if there is only 1 bulb left to spent on the main stat, the synergy is theoretical. Already for epic girls, though, you have to spend 8 bulbs on tier2.

With equipment the correct formula is

• stat = (base stat + equipment bonus + flat skill bonus) * percentage skill bonus,

meaning the skill bonus is actually applied on the equipped stats.

With blessing the formula is

• blessed_stat = (base stat + equipment bonus + flat skill bonus) * percentage skill bonus * blessing,

multiplicative (I originally thought it would be additive to the percentage skill bonus).

I verified this with Summer Geekette 

Base stats level 750

Bulbs spent on tier 2

Resulting stats

Please note 8,913.25 = (8,625 + 200) * 1.01.

Now I was very generous and offered Geekette one level 1 common equipment piece (+20 for each stat). 

It is a real pity that the Harem++ script is not able to show the correct stats anymore after the addition of the equipment, so I have to use a screenshot from the original harem:

+24 for HC and KH (24 = 20*1.2 blessing)

10,721 CH is less obvious. As stated above it is: 10,721 = (8,625 + 200 + 20) * 1.01 * 1.2

Edited August 3, 2023 by Bobick

[DvDivXXX]

Lots of very good reads and interesting stats, data and thoughts here. Thank you all for that.

The revelation of what the skills are and how differently they work from color to color and with potential stacking synergies in a distant future, along with the fucked up first draft for the new League Layout going live unfixed (and still unfixed even though Zoo's update of the BDSM HH++ script made it less painful to look at)... that was too much for me yesterday, so I avoided posting angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry and all that. ^^

Of course I expected this in return:

Anyhow, right now I'm a bit surprised and very intrigued by most of the tests, estimations and conjectures being shared here, and that's great. It will take a long time to fully figure this out and use it to our respective advantage based on our own situations.

A few basics I'd like to share as such because this helps me see a bit more clearly the bigger picture of the new layer of distant-future grind and strategy this turd brings. Well, at least things that seemed basic to me, but it seems that the math experts are currently divided as to whether the % bonuses are the way to go or the flat bonuses are deceptively not as laughable as it looked from where I'm standing before reading the past few pages).

1. Tier 3 Criteria
   
   Blue: (CH/KH/HC) Pose
   Dark: Eye Color
   Orange: Zodiac Sign
   Green: Hair Color
   Red: Eye Color
   White: Hair Color
   Purple: Zodiac Sign
   Yellow: (CH/KH/HC) Pose
   
   This reinforces Blue's crucial superiority most of the time, and Dark's second-best support ability. It may or may not be enough to make Yellow a more relevant color due to sharing the best bonus criterion as well as multiple top-tier (unblessed) girls from one specific pose with Blue. The rest may or may not matter a bit or sometimes a lot, but it doesn't synergize with other things such as mythic GG pieces and more quite as well right now. At least from my perspective.
    
2. Tiers to Upgrades per Rarity & Priority (Low-Hanging Fruits):
   
   ALL RARITIES: Only 5* or Mythic girls, ever. No exception.

   STARTING
   Bunny, Juliette & Red Battler:
   -> Tier I 2nd skill (%) to max (5 bulbs) & DONE
   (the other two are not worth it, and even 1 "value point" in skill 1 is a waste: 60,040/h instead of 60,000/h without it)

   COMMON
   They're ALL(*) fine but low-priority for:
   -> Tier I 2nd skill (%) to max (5 bulbs) & DONE
   (*) EXCEPT Agate, for some reason (3,300/h instead of 3,410 or 3,411)

   RARE
   Squishy:
   -> Tier I 2nd skill (%) to max (5 bulbs)
   (3,961/h vs 3,410 or 3,411 for all the others)
   Others:
   Fine but low-priority:
   -> Tier I 2nd skill (%) to max (5 bulbs)

   Squishy & Alt. Lyrsa (better base stats) & then Others
   Long term, for Week of the Rare and other relevant blessings:
   -> Tier I 1st skill (FLAT=SHIT) +1 (1 bulb) just to unlock Tier II
   -> Tier II 2nd skill (%) to max (5 bulbs) & 1 point in (FLAT=SHIT) just to unlock Tier III
   -> Tier III 2nd skill (Attack) to max (5 bulbs) & 1 point in Def (1 bulb)
   -> Tier IV 2nd skill (Damage) to max (5 bulbs) & 1 point in -Def (1 bulb)
   DONE FOREVER (until Tier V appears...)
   
   (Of course right now we're just about to get a Week of the Rare at +40% with one super duper double-blessed Mavin on dot com, so it's probably a safe bet to max out Mavin first for this, and maybe one or two more if you can. But this is the exception rather than the rule. If it weren't for that, I'd hold on to my rare bulbs for now).

   EPIC:
   Travel Gwenaelle & Summer Geekette
   Long term, for Week of the Epic and other relevant blessings:
   -> Tier I 2nd skill (%) to max (5 bulbs) & 1st skill (FLAT=SHIT) +1 (1 bulb) just to unlock Tier II
   -> Tier II 2nd skill (%) to max (5 bulbs) & 1 point in (FLAT=SHIT) just to unlock Tier III
   -> Tier III 2nd skill (Attack) to max (5 bulbs) & 1 point in Def (1 bulb)
   -> Tier IV 2nd skill (Damange) to max (5 bulbs) & 1 point in -Def (1 bulb)
   DONE FOREVER (until Tier V appears...)
   
   LEGENDARY:
   OMFG NOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!111!!
   This will take a million years, it will be another weekly Ymens sink and it's a nightmare to even try figuring out for now.

   MYTHIC:
   They're ALL(*) fine but low-priority for:
   -> Tier I 2nd skill (%) to max (5 bulbs) & HOLD
   This will take a billion years and a day, but at least it's more reliable and less of a nightmare to even try figuring out than Legendary girls. For now, most of us have less than the 7 bulbs it will take to even have anything to consider, so... Hold. They all have a more generous income than other rarities except for the aforementioned three special super-charged Starting girls, and very very long term we're going to want to get and use Mythic bulbs more than anything else, so it's a safe bet to pick your best M6 for now if/when you stumble upon an elusive red bulb and use it to increase the income.
   
   Sifra & Lenaelle for Column. Norou & Agate for Congress. Who knows maybe for Blue eyes.

That's where I'm at so far.

EDIT: And my "FLAT = SHIT" (and % = Good) instinct seems wrong in at least one or two cases, jury still out for others?

EDIT2: Particularly for Tier 2 it seems? A flat base stat bonus to both secondary stats would be better than a % boost to the main one? Because the % boost is so small that the maxed bonus is only 1%?

 

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by DvDivXXX
updated

[Antimon]

2 ore fa, EpicBacon ha scritto:

Edit - Just did a quick check on the legendaries I have at level 750, 8 in total have less then 10k mainstat; Bianca, Silver Lupa, Norou, Blet, Keiko, Bellona, Amaya and Taria as shown in this screenshot.

 

Himari should be the oldest legendary that has unblessed/ungeared/unskilled main stat higher than 10000 at level 750. Those who were released earlier all have a lower main stat. Does Norou reach 9900 at level 750? She, alongside Levitya and Fanny&Fione are the girls with the lowest main stat. Not that is reallythat important to know, considering % skill gets applied after Gear bonus stats, given @Bobick's test

[EpicBacon]

27 minutes ago, Antimon said:

Himari should be the oldest legendary that has unblessed/ungeared/unskilled main stat higher than 10000 at level 750. Those who were released earlier all have a lower main stat. Does Norou reach 9900 at level 750? She, alongside Levitya and Fanny&Fione are the girls with the lowest main stat. Not that is reallythat important to know, considering % skill gets applied after Gear bonus stats, given @Bobick's test

 

[Attirm]

Hmm... just playing around with this and looking at the reset cost, I'm actually thinking that resetting just isn't realistic. It's well over 100M ymens to reset a Legendary or Mythic, which means you're looking at around 1 billion to reset an entire battle team for a week. Even if it's only half your team every week, that's still about 2.5 billion ymens per month in additional expenses. I don't think there's any realistic way to pay for that. We don't have a good kobon->ymen conversion process, so no matter how high your league winnings are you can't use them to subsidize this ymen sink.

I think we really need to be looking at these as semi-permanent decisions, not like the equipment that gets swapped out every week. 

[EpicBacon]

56 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

1. EPIC:
   Travel Gwenaelle & Summer Geekette
   Long term, for Week of the Epic and other relevant blessings:
   -> Tier I 2nd skill (%) to max (5 bulbs) & 1st skill (FLAT=SHIT) +1 (1 bulb) just to unlock Tier II
   -> Tier II 2nd skill (%) to max (5 bulbs) & 1 point in (FLAT=SHIT) just to unlock Tier III
   -> Tier III 2nd skill (Attack) to max (5 bulbs) & 1 point in Def (1 bulb)
   -> Tier IV 2nd skill (Damange) to max (5 bulbs) & 1 point in -Def (1 bulb)
   DONE FOREVER (until Tier V appears...)

My allocated bulbs for Travel Gwen:
Tier 1 - 5x%, then 1 Flat
Tier 2 - 5x 70 to secondary and tertiary, then 3x100 base stat; due to her mainstat being less then 10k
Tier 3 - 4x Trait attack power (epic only gets 4 points here)
Tier 4 - 4x Attack power (epic only gets 4 points here)

[Horsting]

5 hours ago, EpicBacon said:

Tier 2 - 5x 70 to secondary and tertiary, then 3x100 base stat; due to her mainstat being less then 10k

7 hours ago, Bobick said:

With equipment the correct formula is

• stat = (base stat + equipment bonus + flat skill bonus) * percentage skill bonus,

Nasty (I mean complicated) that the percentage skill bonus raises equipment bonus and flat skill bonus both as well. That is unexpected and throws around all simple considerations: As we mentioned before, for old L5* which are only a little below 10k with their main stat, when ignoring equipment, the best combination needs to be calculated in each case, and might be something like 5x70/70, 2x100 and 2x1% (or was it 8 bulbs overall in tier 2 for legendaries?).

But now equipment comes on top, so that I think +1% ist best for all L5*, as equipped they easily get >10k main stat? And for mythics we then need to check whether in some distant feature with maxed mythic gear, they can get >14k main stat. EDIT: 11,886+30*10*6=13,686 => close at least, but still below 14k.

For simplicity I would have preferred it with the percentage bonus being applied to the base stat only 😅.

Edited August 3, 2023 by Horsting

[EpicBacon]

37 minutes ago, Horsting said:

Nasty (I mean complicated) that the percentage skill bonus raises equipment bonus and flat skill bonus both as well. That is unexpected and throws around all simple considerations: As we mentioned before, for old L5* which are only a little below 10k with their main stat, when ignoring equipment, the best combination needs to be calculated in each case, and might be something like 5x70/70, 2x100 and 2x1% (or was it 8 bulbs overall in tier 2 for legendaries?).

But now equipment comes on top, so that I think +1% ist best for all L5*, as equipped they easily get >10k main stat? And for mythics we then need to check whether in some distant feature with maxed mythic gear, they can get >14k main stat. EDIT: 11,886+30*10*6=13,686 => close at least, but still below 14k.

For simplicity I would have preferred it with the percentage bonus being applied to the base stat only 😅.

well, I mean they did simplify the system quite a bit allready Tier 2 is the only real choice.
Tier 1 - Irrelevant 
Tier 2 - 70x2 vs 100 vs 1%
Tier 3 - Attack
Tier 4 - Attack 

[Rylarth]

Some additional information just got a Mythic Bulb from champion fights today didnt screenshot it but swear its true the droprate right now of bulbs though makes it the most useless addition kinkoid have ever done since Kinkoid have decided to act as stingy Cheapskates i will be a cheapskate in return i only support games that actually works and actually appreciates their player Base with you shooting events Like uzis Now you cant even keep up with the cost if you win every single week only thing that have actually increased in this game right now is the ridicolous cost of maintaing everything right now I dont even know why i even Bother with this game anymore because its neither fun Or enjoyable anymore🤬

[EpicBacon]

5 hours ago, Rylarth said:

Some additional information just got a Mythic Bulb from champion fights today didnt screenshot it but swear its true the droprate right now of bulbs though makes it the most useless addition kinkoid have ever done since Kinkoid have decided to act as stingy Cheapskates i will be a cheapskate in return i only support games that actually works and actually appreciates their player Base with you shooting events Like uzis Now you cant even keep up with the cost if you win every single week only thing that have actually increased in this game right now is the ridicolous cost of maintaing everything right now I dont even know why i even Bother with this game anymore because its neither fun Or enjoyable anymore🤬

I did some champion fights yesterday, I am f2p so its not really quick tho.
I've gotten drops from all champions; mostly common bulbs, but Visor and Alban have given me legendary ones.
Alban even game me 2 legendary bulbs in the first battle, but nothing since that.

My numbers are way to low to get any meaninful droprate info, but my lowest drops are from Visor and Alban at 3.13% up to 9.09% on Matsuda.

Edited August 4, 2023 by EpicBacon

[bolitho76]

I'm not sure, but I remember that someone pointed a ca. 5% droprate for bulbs from champs at Discord.

[EpicBacon]

44 minutes ago, bolitho76 said:

I'm not sure, but I remember that someone pointed a ca. 5% droprate for bulbs from champs at Discord.

My numbers are the same on this;
I have 178 fights with 9 total drops; clocking in at 5.06% 
Still my sample size is too low; but its an indication

[Basniowy]

22 hours ago, Horsting said:

Check out older comments in this thread:

• For PvP, +70/70 secondary stats is always the best, as it is +140 stat sum, which is more than +100 or +1% in all cases.
• For PvE (champions and PoPs), raising the main stat is best, as this is all what counts for champion AP and PoP power.
• +1% main stats is more than +100 if the girl's maxed (but unbuffed) main stat is >10.000, which is true for all M6* and L5* girls (level 750) and not true for all others.

Umm... I am still not convinced 

In my opinion 100 points of main stat are way better than 140 points of 2 other stats (talking about PvP)

Or alternatively 1% assuming it is more than 100 points.

In PvP Attack Power is the most important stat if we want to win our duels. That results in Cordys being the most wanted/powerful boosters instead of Ginseng roots.

The way i see stuff is my 2nd and 3rd stats are boosting my defence and harmony,

 

and those 2 are way less important than attack and ego during a PvP battle.

So even if 100 points are less than 140 in general, in this particular case i would like to gain 100 points of ATT and 400 points of Ego INSTEAD OF (17,5 points of defence and 35 points of harmony) times 2.

Am i missing something here?  Please correct me if i am wrong.

[Bobick]

9 minutes ago, Basniowy said:

Am i missing something here?  Please correct me if i am wrong.

For your (player) stats this is correct. For the girls since the introduction of BDSM only the total power (sum of all stats) is relevant.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Bobick

[Basniowy]

5 minutes ago, Bobick said:

For your (player) stats this is correct. For the girls since the introduction of BDSM only the total power (sum of all stats) is relevant.

So what is the method for converting TP into 4 stats we are seeing in PvP?

for instance a 180K TP team

[Bobick]

Ego +2*TP, Attack +0.25*TP, Defense +0.125*TP

[renalove]

I found the formula of consecutive attack bonus from Pantheon.

Opponent attack power: 156,576
Player defense: 42,826
Consecutive attack bonus: Increase the Attack power with each consecutive attack by 0.8% * 7 = 5.6%

Results of no critical attack:

Turn	Actual damage	Calculated damage	Formula
1st	122518	122518.3	156,576 * 1.056 - 42,826
2nd	131777	131777.5	156,576 * 1.056 * 1.056 - 42,826
3rd	141555	141555.3	156,576 * 1.056 * 1.056 * 1.056 - 42,826
4th	151880	151880.7	156,576 * 1.056 * 1.056 * 1.056 * 1.056 - 42,826
5th	162784	162784.3	156,576 * 1.056 * 1.056 * 1.056 * 1.056 * 1.056 - 42,826
6th	174298	174298.4	156,576 * 1.056 * 1.056 * 1.056 * 1.056 * 1.056 * 1.056 - 42,826

That means consecutive attack bonus increases attack power before each attack, and those bonuses are multiplied, not added.

By the way, isn't Pantheon getting too strong? The 6th attack damage is 42% greater than the 1st attack damage. 😱

[Horsting]

2 hours ago, renalove said:

By the way, isn't Pantheon getting too strong? The 6th attack damage is 42% greater than the 1st attack damage. 😱

Indeed, for longer fights this is extremely strong, since it is exponential! I wonder whether this applies to champs as well. Here is a long fight against Romero:

Of course it would end much earlier with the bonus, but theoretically 82 rounds means 1.056^82=8718% AP bonus 😂. At least against Chayotte I got similar long fights, which makes it possible to defeat him in a single fight all alone when being lucky, at least with the draft and him without matching pose.

EDIT: Did anyone ever get bulbs from CC?

Edited August 4, 2023 by Horsting