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10 hours ago, OmerB said:

I'm guessing that there are many on the "Mod approval" mode 😂

Oh no, you're a tight group. And once another mod has approved your post, it no longer shows in my approval queue and just becomes a notification that you posted something instead.

The triangle with the exclamation mark next to the bell is where notifications for mod-only stuff appear (reports, warnings by other mods, etc.). I had none this time around, thankfully. Just 118 "X quoted you in topic Y", "X posted in topic Y" and so on. ^^

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@DvDivXXX Just wanted to let you know, in case if you didn't notice, the Thread in Bug Reporting you put the Kid in a TempBan for, was actually the initial Post a minute earlier, than the one you answered his question and moved to QA.

Guess you might have overlooked the other one because of the spanish title?

Could imagine he posted it first with that and decided to change it and did it again with english title right after.

 

Just saying. 😉

Edited by Der DinX
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1 hour ago, Der DinX said:

Could imagine he posted it first with that and decided to change it and did it again with english title right after.

Thanks. Yeah, I noticed the first one with the Spanish title after the one I answered to, you're not wrong. And it's possible they made a dupe thread thinking they were improving on what they might have assumed was their only misstep in their first post (the Spanish title). It doesn't change anything, though.

Either of their posts was already worth a warning on its own, and I already made the effort to simply inform them and nicely suggest they pay attention to where to post what. The fact that on top of that they made a dupe thread just mean they really did need a warning shot if they're going to post in this forum any further. Which is unlikely anyway, since this really didn't feel like someone trying to join the forum, but simply someone popping up here hoping to get their way with the in-game mistake they've made. I've now explained to them through and through there's no use (and given them bonus info on the subject) in my first answer. They're most likely done here, and if they're not and they turn out to be interested in participating in the forum itself later on, I want them to feel that warning shot and make an effort before their next entrance.

I hope this helps (you understanding my moderation process here), and I also appreciate you were also trying to help (me not being too harsh over a misunderstanding, and perhaps the new user feeling welcomed). Have a good weekend, bro.

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Yes I see what you have to deal with.

Having that said, now you might get a slight feeling what I meant in the other Thread a few days (weeks?) ago, about getting a rather negative first impression.

I agree he did those mistakes and the approach was certainly not appropiate.
But maybe it was indeed the first time using a forum, or at least one he is not familiar with.
So he posted something with a spanish title, but wrote his text in english.
Right after the "Submit Reply" Button was clicked, he noticed that error, but instead of editing that Topic Title (maybe because of not knowing how), he made a new Topic with an english title, literally one minute later.

As I said, me being the optimistic Type I wouldn't assume evil intention in the first place.
Doesn't make it better what was done, but maybe another additional (edited) warning might have done the trick as well.

But again I can understand the frustration of moderating a Thread, only to recognize the same Thing again directly after.
The Advice and Warning were sufficient and alright, as far as I can tell, maybe the second Reaction was a bit hasty.

I don't judge, it's not my place. Just encourage to have a second thought.

Have a good weekend yourself. 😉

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@Daro84 When you propose a thread and it's denied by a mod, please read the warning by checking your own forum profile, instead of reposting the same thread again. You're experiencing something well known, already extensively reported and heavily discussed all over the forum and beyond for days. The "Bug Reporting" subforum is to report bugs (that aren't already known), not to vent or ask questions.

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@DvDivXXX I saw you last week for a brief moment on the league on MangaRpg, but now you're not on it.

Decided to check the surface? Was it a part of your moderating job? I thought that it might had to do with me getting a mysterious ban from it, and then getting re-instated to it.

 

Edited by OmerB
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4 hours ago, OmerB said:

@DvDivXXX I saw you last week for a brief moment on the league on MangaRpg, but now you're not on it.

Decided to check the surface?

Yeah, I was just curious to see if it had changed since the last time I checked it, and I ended playing a bit of it while I was there, kind of mystified by that single W1 league with like 15/100 players in it (and me making it to top 4 by playing a few fights with my long-inactive account ^^). Then I got bored and saw that it was still as frozen in time as before, and I closed it and forgot about it again.

Nothing to do with my mod duties or your temp ban (of which I wasn't even aware before you mentioned it).

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5 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

Yeah, I was just curious to see if it had changed since the last time I checked it, and I ended playing a bit of it while I was there, kind of mystified by that single W1 league with like 15/100 players in it (and me making it to top 4 by playing a few fights with my long-inactive account ^^). Then I got bored and saw that it was still as frozen in time as before, and I closed it and forgot about it again.

Nothing to do with my mod duties or your temp ban (of which I wasn't even aware before you mentioned it).

If you happen to go back there, can you check if the Path of Valor opens for you?

I'm getting an error message whenever I'm trying to open it.

BTW, this 10 players league is quite competitive :)

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6 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

I was getting an error too, I don't remember if it was for PoG or PoV (or even if they have PoG over there ^^) but definitely one of these.

It has both, but the PoV can't be accessed for few weeks now... It was accessable for the first two months that I played it.

I'm wondering whether there's some support for this game (I'm guessing that they do some small things when players (or mods) writes them directly on Discord, since I was re-instated into the game after and mod and I wrote to them).

image.png.628931e0695fe8944e34f470de3e6975.png

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Guest Tohru - Kinkoid
On 6/25/2023 at 2:12 PM, DvDivXXX said:

So, I took a few days off from the forum (okay, more like a week, but still)... :ph34r:💢

image.png

Shout out to all of our awesome forum mods 💘 big thanks!

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Is it coincidence that today Bunna contacted me for the first time in messenger, the day after I recruited her for my harem? All the other girls did not take care at all whether I ever met them in adventure or anywhere else, like Selena sexting me weeks before I recruited her via SE, and months before I will meet her in adventure (in Stairway to heaven?). So I think they are just texting after you finished a certain previous girl, but Bunna was perfectly in time 🤩. That she calls me "anniversary boy" even fits to the anniversary month 🤔.

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  • 3 weeks later...
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@OmerB Thanks for pointing this out. I've done a bit of clean up and unpinned event threads and other things that are no longer hot news, and even then there are so many things going on simultaneously that we still have more pinned threads than usual. I hid your post because it would have bumped the thread you posted in.

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14 hours ago, Master-17 said:

P.P.S. for moders (please delete after reading): If you can’t regularly appear here and approve my posts, then maybe it’s still worth removing the pre-moderation? And then I can’t quickly ask anyone, or help with advice in any case. I seem to have been writing for many months without slip-ups.

  Hey, M17.

  1. There are three of us forum mods in total for the HH EN section these days: Ravi, Holy and myself. Remember we're player volunteers who are moderately compensated for our time, energy and efforts in in-game resources once a month. We're not Kinkoid staff with a real-money salary for this activity. We're not expected to provide 24/7 coverage, even if we're generally pretty active and involved on the forum.

    On top of that, the current roster has Ravi in the NYC time zone, while Holy and I both live in the CET time zone. So even if all three of us took shifts there's no way we could maintain permanent coverage. We'd need more people and from other time zones for that (trust me, I've actually worked in companies with 24/7 coverage for over a decade, it takes at least a dozen full-time jobs to achieve that, ideally more around 20). Plus, not all of us are equally active in any given time period. These days, Ravi and I and are both very present, while Holy is a lot less active on the forum. This is perfectly fine according to the terms of our arrangement with Kinkoid to volunteer as moderators, to be clear. Just to give you a better idea of how unlikely it is that one of us will be there to go through the approval queue within the hour whenever you or anyone else with the same restriction attempts to make a post.

    With all the above in mind, I think in practice and on average we empty the approval queue at least once a day, often a lot more. That's a lot of extra work for us and I'm pretty proud of how efficient and diligent we are with it, honestly. So I'm sorry to hear you don't feel we're here regularly to approve your posts, but that's a subjective perception from you and not the reality. Every day if not several times a day is definitely pretty damn regular from just a couple of dudes who do this as an extension of a hobby we share with you and the rest of this community, I feel.
     
  2. I agree you've been nothing but helpful, constructive and in tune with this community through your posts for well over six months now, and you post quite regularly. For what it's worth, I definitely appreciate your contributions and I feel you're a valuable regular of this forum. I don't want to get rid of you, and I would miss you if it ever came to that.

    To prepare this here post after reading your message I'm responding to, I've re-reviewed your entire moderation history and a fair bit of your posts, just to refresh my memory and to make sure I don't take this decision lightly or without having the big picture of why and how you came to have this permanent mod-approval restriction on your posts.

    In your particular case, you've always been a solid contributor here most of the time. You used to troll or taunt people a fair bit at some point, and there was a time where we didn't see eye to eye and there was a fair bit of tension between you and the mod team (of which I'm the only constant member over the past 3 years, as we had a lot of turnover). The only major issue occurred almost entirely behind the scenes in hidden posts, reports from you and replies in warning form from us, all of which is private so I won't get into details about it here. I hope and trust that it's ancient history and water under the bridge for both of us by now anyway. To me, it's apparent you have a consistently healthy approach to your interactions on the forum these days. So yeah, I'm very tempted to grant your request and remove the restriction now. However...
     
  3. It's important you understand what this restriction does for you, and what removing it will entail, and you agree to it before I proceed. Like most forum regulars who have this restriction, you primarily perceive it as an inconvenience for you. Although, to your credit, you haven't nagged us about it time and time again like others have. In fact I'm pretty sure this is the first time you've even mentioned it since I last applied it to your forum account. This makes me more inclined to believe your request is sincere and motivated by the current situation rather than simply a knee-jerk "not fair!" reaction to the inconvenience.

    The way we moderate the forum and apply penalties or restrictions, you were given this restriction as a last resort, as the only other option at our disposal at the time would have been to ban you permanently. I know very few people I've given this restriction to realize that I've done it to keep them around (while still making sure they can't post offensive stuff) even though it's also an inconvenience for me (and my fellow mods), and not to punish or belittle them.

    I've been using it as a compromise, borderline a loophole for forum users who I feel have a lot of good things to contribute but unfortunately also are at risk of polluting the forum with unacceptable stuff if left unchecked. I'm proud of that too, as it's entirely an initiative of my own and it proved to serve a useful purpose for a couple years by now. There are a few past forum users that we had to ban permanently back in the day (long before I came up with this idea), that could have been "saved" by it instead.

    To be clear, in your case I don't expect it to be a problem moving forward. But if I remove the mod-approval restriction on your posts, should you snap and post ban-worthy stuff later down the line, you'll be banned from the forum permanently. Do you understand and agree to that? If yes, then I'll remove the restriction today. If not, we can leave the restriction in place and you can stay with us for as long as you want, with the safety net it provides and the inconvenience of mildly delayed posts that this safety costs you (and us forum mods, because again that's extra work).

    Do you agree or not?

---
PS: @OmerB and @Karxan, I'm pinging you two as I feel it would be beneficial for the three of us as well if you could please read the above wall of text too. Along with M17, you're the only two other current regulars with the same mod-approval restriction on your posts. There's info in there that might shed some light on the what, the why and the how for you guys.

To be as transparent as possible, I wouldn't even consider removing the restriction for Karxan anytime soon, as he's been on edge and making very emotionally-charged and borderline posts for a couple of months, now. So he's basically the poster child for how useful and positive this restriction can be. It's doing its job of protecting him from himself right now.

As for you, Omer, I'm very sorry for the delay as I know it's been months since I told you I'd make a fresh re-review of your moderation and post history as I've done today for M17, basically. And I've postponed doing that longer than I intended to. Long story short, I had a look today and the fact is that I haven't had to deny a post proposal of yours for too long to even remember. So I'm comfortable making you the same offer as M17.

So, @OmerB, if I remove the mod-approval restriction on your posts, should you snap and post ban-worthy stuff later down the line, you'll be banned from the forum permanently. Do you understand and agree to that? If yes, then I'll remove the restriction today. If not, we can leave the restriction in place and you can stay with us for as long as you want, with the safety net it provides and the inconvenience of mildly delayed posts that this safety costs you (and us forum mods, because again that's extra work).

Do you agree or not?

Edited by DvDivXXX
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@Master-17, my 2¢:

Yes, the restriction is an inconvenience, one i understand & accept not as an ongoing punishment, but as a safety net.   i do not fault her reasoning.  That while i may disagree with the circumstances in which i received it, i have no intention of nagging him/her/them or arguing for its removal, with DDiv or any other Mod.

i understand i have issues, anger-management & shit at home dominating that list.  The Last Thing i'd ever want to do, is lash out at someone, treating them unfairly, for something someone/something else did to me.  Today is a fine example; i'm in a bad mood because family treated me like shit. On top of that i had a bad headache this afternoon, something that negatively impacts my decision-making.

i haven't had any posts denied for a while, which tells me i'm at least doing something right.  i am sorry that i'm the 'poster child' for it but DDiv makes a fair point.

So, M17, i ask you to consider it is for your benefit, & worth far more than the minor inconvenience of having your posts delayed a bit.

@DvDivXXX, sorry to be a handful.  i get it.  The forum Mods are not paid positions, not employees of Kinkoid.  At times i'm sure they may feel they are herding cats, & i've seen posts where forum members took issue with being herded, & getting salty at DDiv or other mods, treating them with disrespect, when the mod in question was being respectful & even generous to them.  Mods don't get enough thanks for their efforts, so Thank You DvDiv, Ravi, Holy & any/all past & future Mods!

/peace

Edited by Karxan
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9 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

Do you agree or not?

Yes, I agree.

7 hours ago, Karxan said:

So, M17, i ask you to consider it is for your benefit, & worth far more than the minor inconvenience of having your posts delayed a bit.

If they are delayed for a short time, this is not a problem. But in yesterday's case, there were problems when an answer was needed now, and my post was invisible for several hours, and this is no longer just a strong inconvenience.

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23 hours ago, Master-17 said:

Yes, I agree.

Okay. I'm working on it. The system can be a bit tricky, sometimes it works right away, other times I need to re-apply a bogus very short-time restriction to overwrite and remove the permanent one. You'll receive a "warning" (with 0 penalty) each time, don't worry: they mean nothing it's just that I can't change your status without sending you a message.

First try didn't work. On to the second one now. If I don't manage to get it to work tonight, I'll ask Tohru for help tomorrow (unless Ravi reads this and has a better trick for this).

Update: Nice, it finally worked. 👍 image.png

 @Master-17 You should be able to post directly again. Can you please confirm?

Edited by DvDivXXX
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On 8/23/2023 at 5:16 AM, DvDivXXX said:

PS: @OmerB and @Karxan, I'm pinging you two as I feel it would be beneficial for the three of us as well if you could please read the above wall of text too. Along with M17, you're the only two other current regulars with the same mod-approval restriction on your posts. There's info in there that might shed some light on the what, the why and the how for you guys.

As for you, Omer, I'm very sorry for the delay as I know it's been months since I told you I'd make a fresh re-review of your moderation and post history as I've done today for M17, basically. And I've postponed doing that longer than I intended to. Long story short, I had a look today and the fact is that I haven't had to deny a post proposal of yours for too long to even remember. So I'm comfortable making you the same offer as M17.

So, @OmerB, if I remove the mod-approval restriction on your posts, should you snap and post ban-worthy stuff later down the line, you'll be banned from the forum permanently. Do you understand and agree to that? If yes, then I'll remove the restriction today. If not, we can leave the restriction in place and you can stay with us for as long as you want, with the safety net it provides and the inconvenience of mildly delayed posts that this safety costs you (and us forum mods, because again that's extra work).

Do you agree or not?

I'm okay with the current situation. I want to write a parody song about a certain Mod first 😜 and then I'll ping you about removing it, if I'll feel it bothers me too much.

My main problem is that I'm not sure what counts as a serious enough offence for a perma-ban. I don't think that I *ever* posted something so bad that deserved banning me permanently from the forum. Maybe some shenanigans that might've deserved a week or two of cooling off, but being permanently banned from the forum? I don't think tha I ever posted something that deserved it, but I don't want to risk it.

Addition: As I wrote before, my 'mod approval' status was places after I disagreed with @DvDivXXX over the importance of a theoretical question of mine in the MG thread. Can I promise that I won't disagree with DvD in the future? I can't. But I respect the mods calls about where things should be in the forum.

I also lowered my participation here for some reasons: a. Having a great club discord. b. Getting the hang of the game and becoming a 'pro', so I don't have many more questions. c. It's also because this 'mod approval' and the way that I was treated in the past, but I'm ok with it now. I don't mind it so much.

Edited by OmerB
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9 hours ago, OmerB said:

My main problem is that I'm not sure what counts as a serious enough offence for a perma-ban. I don't think that I *ever* posted something so bad that deserved banning me permanently from the forum. Maybe some shenanigans that might've deserved a week or two of cooling off, but being permanently banned from the forum? I don't think tha I ever posted something that deserved it, but I don't want to risk it.

It's important to distinguish between two very different scenarios that can lead to the same permanent outcome, so we're on the same page or at least talking about the same thing.

  1. The single post or action that deserves an instant permanent ban. Outside from things like spam bots, that's thankfully pretty rare. I could cite obvious troll (usually dupe/secondary) accounts with offensive names (a few years back, someone actually took the time to create a forum account with my entire nickname followed by "is a cunt", for instance...). I won't even go into details, but on occasion we've banned the forum accounts of actual people for a single post too. Really strong hate speech usually with a hint of threat and/or call to harmful action against anybody would typically qualify. Or outright illegal stuff, in which case we've not only banned the forum account on the spot, but also reported them to Kinkoid to get their playing account banned as well.
     
  2. The much longer process of repeated patterns of problematic behavior, persisting beyond warnings and even after longer and longer temporary bans. We're pretty tolerant, we can be patient, and we tend to give people a second chance (and a third, or a fourth in some cases) but with every additional offense our guidelines and experience tell us to increase the penalty for it. Typically, if someone's forum activity still requires active moderation after coming back from a temp ban of one month or longer, then the next and final step is a permanent ban.

    As I mentioned before, the permanent mod-approval restriction is something I've implemented as a somewhat experimental alternative to this second type of permanent ban. In your case, for instance, you were not given that restriction just for the incident you're referring to where you failed to follow my instructions and openly argued my instructions weren't legitimate so you were ignoring them. You received this status because that incident came after quite a bit of previous warnings and temp bans for various problematic behaviors already. Even though, I agree, none of the incidents in isolation would have justified a permanent ban, the total sum of extra monitoring  and wrist-slapping you had already required from us mods by the time you've made that one misguided move to "rebel" against a direct moderator instruction was already more than enough to fully justify a permanent ban by then. Except that you were still making plenty of perfectly fine posts, even nice and useful ones in between the repeated incidents, so following our typical policy of incremental bans to its permanent conclusion didn't feel right to me. Which is why I offered you the special treatment of getting a permanent mod-approval restriction instead.

    However, once I've offered that safety net (and accepted the extra work it takes for us mods) renouncing it later doesn't give you a clean slate (not just you, Omer, but the royal/general "you"). You already had your first warning, and your first temp restriction, and your first temp ban, and the second ones, and so on. We're not going to start over as if you were a new user again. That's why I insisted that any further ban-worthy post would result in a permanent ban, not any "permanent-ban-worthy post" (a post worthy of a permanent ban in and of itself will always result in a permanent ban anyway; I don't need an agreement to that). You can read this as "any offense", if that's clearer. Because, again, that's what would already have happened a year or however many months ago when I offered the permanent mod-approval restriction as an alternative to the permanent ban.
9 hours ago, OmerB said:

Addition: As I wrote before, my 'mod approval' status was places after I disagreed with @DvDivXXX over the importance of a theoretical question of mine in the MG thread. Can I promise that I won't disagree with DvD in the future? I can't.

Disagreeing with me is fine and was never the issue. Openly ignoring the instructions I give you as a moderator and attempting to argue with me about the pertinence or legitimacy of said moderator instructions was an issue, and would still be today.

9 hours ago, OmerB said:

But I respect the mods calls about where things should be in the forum.

That's great, but it's also new. Well, more recent than the mindset showcased in the previous quote, at least. You obviously didn't respect my mod calls when you were refusing to follow them and trying to convince me to make different calls. There was a distorted narrative from your perspective that stemmed partly from misunderstanding and I think also partly from the otherwise pleasant exchanges you and I had as fellow forum users (aka when I don't have my mod hat on), but ultimately you had reached the point where you were pretty rebellious and uncooperative with my moderation on principle. And it also kind of turned into of a passive-aggressive "vendetta" against me as a person in the weeks and months that followed, between the many times you asked for my mod ruling to be reverted and various more "subtle" stuff like applying the WTF smiley to my posts (although we had an explanation on that much later, I know). So yeah, you were more than a little difficult back then, to say the least.

I believe that you're past that now, since you're much more familiar with the game, the community, the forum and its moderation as well. And hopefully you're not holding on to your old grudge-induced narrative in which I seemingly gave you a permanent restriction unfairly or out of nowhere (although since you still describe those past events with that vibe, I can't be certain honestly). And as I said in my previous long post here, just like M17, I think your posting behavior has been nothing but fine and even good for quite a while, now. (Contrary to Karxan, whose memory isn't too reliable lately, as he seems to think he didn't have any post denied lately, but I actually denied quite a few just days before he said that. Which is another good reason this restriction is definitely a net positive in his current situation). So I'm fine shaking on it, removing the restriction and trusting you to keep being a valuable regular contributor without that safety net. But only if you realize and agree that it means you won't have another second chance should you snap later down the line.

But I'm also fine leaving things as they are if you're more comfortable with the restriction, as you've said. 👍

I hope this sheds even more light on things and perhaps gives you a bit of closure on the old times where you were clashing with moderation more or less regularly. I do hope and trust that these times are behind us both, though. Cheers. Div*

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