girl equipment [May 2023 ] Recruit Equipment & Resonance - #RERTest

[DvDivXXX]

@FrostBurn1 Well no, it's nine: the 8 elements plus the Rainbow tag, right? Or... maybe unlike Hero gear, there won't be rainbow items for girls? Only items linked to a specific element?

As for class and pose, there are 4 poses per class, and 3 classes, so that's still 12 as I mentioned no matter how you look at it, unfortunately.

You're very right that I forgot yet another multiplier with the 6 different slots, though! And a really big one, too. How could I miss this? I'll blame it on my foggy brain at the moment. ^^

So to be fully covered in terms of PvP, it's 6 (slots) x 12 (poses) x 9 (or 8, if rainbow is indeed excluded) (colors) x 7 (girls). A damn far cry from 42, let alone anything even somewhat reasonable.

------

I still haven't caught up with everything in the thread (let alone even opened Discord yet), but from what I've glanced and especially the screenshots from Kinkoid's attempts at presenting this as feedback-based and reasonable or even to be expected for "this type of game"... If I didn't already have a headache I'd give myself one from all the facepalm this induces.

HH is about as much of an "RPG" as Final Fantasy games are hentai collection games. The only person in the world to persist on tagging HH as "RPG" is exactly Rosso, and the fact that he hardly played his own game more than the average newbie in our community must have a lot to do with it.

As for conforming to what "gacha games" in general do... Well, most gacha games are predatory mobile scum with the bulk of their core design revolving around making players addicted and giving them just enough of an impression of progress to keep them paying. I don't think Kinkoid realizes just how bad it is for their image to associate themselves with that crowd.

HH's strength has always been that it's its own thing with quality and unique content, good fun vibes, simple mechanics and no predatory monetization. They've been slowly but surely destroying a lot of that by trying to emulate their perceived (gacha) or imagined (RPG) competitors (and judging by scummy additions such as Seasonal Predation and this new unpaid crap job simulator as a "feature", they haven't been looking at the more commendable of these).

Also yeah, the track record has been consistently terrible in terms of building reliable, unbiased and useful surveys, not to mention interpreting and presenting the "results" in a way that makes sense. This is no exception, as the one time they did provide us with pie charts and rankings of the proposed new features, equipment for girls was near the lowest, even though the data itself was questionable anyway (there was no option to vote for none, or even to discard one of the options, we were instead asked to rank them from most awesome to least awesome, IIRC...). Pretending now that this is coming to us "because you demanded it!" feels pretty insulting to our intelligence, honestly.

But "it is what it is", as usual. Now, is HH headed to a final bang before they call it quits and launch "HH2" or whatever else once there's no whale left to milk (or simply keep churning out more and more clones with different pictures and themes)? I'm not sure at this point. But that slippery slope sure looks more and more plausible with more and more stuff like this being introduced. In between great content and even actual improvements here and there (although some of that content is now openly paywalled, and not behind a symbolic "give back to the devs" amount either). I guess that's what makes this so frustrating. The game is still mostly great and could be so much better with a better direction.

And yeah, it's worth repeating that if it weren't for the community scripts many of us veterans and big fans of the art would have quit long ago. The vanilla version of the game is literally unplayable. But since there are players fixing the UI and QoL stuff for them, they focus on developing expensive buzz kills like this upcoming update instead of going back to basics and reinforcing the game's foundations. Sigh... V_v

[FrostBurn1]

1 minute ago, DvDivXXX said:

Well no, it's nine: the 8 elements plus the Rainbow tag, right?

As for class and pose, there are 4 poses per class, and 3 classes, so that's still 12 as I mentioned no matter how you look at it, unfortunately.

8 Colors cos it needs to match girls Element . We dont have any rainbow girls !

Class and Pose are 1 and same like . If you match a Pose you 100% match a class . Poses belong to certain classes.

[DvDivXXX]

4 minutes ago, FrostBurn1 said:

8 Colors cos it needs to match girls Element . We dont have any rainbow girls !

Fair enough (I haven't tested it extensively myself yet and we always had rainbow for gear so far, so I kind of expected it). Well, that's a small consolation, but better that one of the many multipliers is an 8 instead of a 9, I guess. Thanks

7 minutes ago, FrostBurn1 said:

Class and Pose are 1 and same like . If you match a Pose you 100% match a class . Poses belong to certain classes.

Sure, but there are still 12 poses in total (4 from each class). So even if you remove "class" as a multiplier (which if I understood Neven's message quoted earlier on, wasn't even a given initially, it seems?*), you're still left with this:  

1 hour ago, FrostBurn1 said:

6 slots x 8 colors x 12 poses x 7 girls

Because you'll have Splitting Bamboo gear, Indian Headstand gear, Suspended Congress gear, and Bridge gear, even if they at least all share the Know-How class. and then same thing for all 4 HC unique poses, and all 4 CH unique poses.

*Apparently it wasn't even a guarantee in the initial test phase. So there was for instance gear with Hardcore as the Class, but say, Column (a Charm pose) as the pose? That's how I understood one the screenshots posted about changes they're willing to make before this goes live, at least.

[Liliat]

When I did the math for 42 items, that's because I wanted to avoid scaring people too much. But just like mythic gear: having 6 pieces doesn't mean you have 6 usable/useful pieces. You need more to cover all slots with a good probability, and even more to have decent pieces.

The combinations for MGE is: 12 Poses, 8 Elements, 6 Slots and 5 Rarities (The most painful one, because rarities aren't equally distributed).

So there are 576 different mythic items (ignoring skin differences), 144 different legendary items (No pose for these, but still a class), 18 different epic items (Only differing by class and slot), and 6 of each rare/common item. That's 750 different combinations, with 576 being valuable (and also ultra rare), and 176 being trash just used for upgrading the good stuff.

If you want "one of each", you're looking at 13.7x more time than my initial estimate, so over 120 years if you're lucky enough to get exactly 0 duplicate (which, of course, is statistically impossible) as a F2P player (Only 50-ish years for a diamond whale). And it would take approximately an infinite amount of time with average luck (If 120 years wasn't already long enough, that is).

Edit: oh, yeah, of course, if you want perfection, 1 of each is not enough. You need 7 of each. There probably aren't 7 5* girls with the same combination of Element/Pose, but by the time we get enough items, there will be for sure So make it 840 years with perfectly ideal luck.

Edited May 16, 2023 by Liliat

[Rylarth]

42 is only the bare minimum to fill all the slots of a full battle team with mythic Girl gear like Liliat said getting optimal or good mythic gear will most likely take centuries at best since I am neither rich or immortal i will settle for whatever orbs i can get my hands on with minimal hassle until have at least a bare minimum of 42 pieces equipped at all times after that I will start slowly increasing rarity as i go buying orbs is so not worth it for PVP the current price right now for maxed mythic girl equipment is probably 20-30k kobans on average based on own experience so far and also other players have reported simmilar cost when it boils down to it i dont consider it worth it for what little extra power they give its still more worth it in my oppinion to go for more stronger girls mythic girls which in comparison is relatively cheap here are some screenshots of maxed mythic girl equipment 

Edited May 16, 2023 by Rylarth

[Der DinX]

41 minutes ago, Liliat said:

So make it 840 years with perfectly ideal luck.

* Hangs the "Please do not Disturb" Sign in front of the Door, and puts all Communications to "Not available for the next Millenium" *

 

You all shouldn't be so negativ about this Stuff.
At least we get the SuperDuper Equip/Unequip-All Button , if it is just nearly as intelligent as the Auto-assign Thingy in PoP, there is nothing to fear.

 

* Voice from the off: "Damn, where are those Irony-Signs when you need one." *

[Ravi-Sama]

Shhh, no more talk of balanced/rainbow girls.  It was a joke in the past, but if we keep saying it, it'll happen.

I'm not rich on the test server (lvl 203), so I figured I could manage to max out some common gear, to check its stats.

It doesn't have any resonance bonuses, but the raw power isn't that far from mythic gear, 200 to each vs 300.  50 Atk vs 75 Atk.  They're much easier to get, w/ fewer variations.

I figure, an initial goal of mine would be a set of 42 level 10 common RE gear, for any possible team I'd want to use.

I think it's a realistic goal, as opposed to 42 perfect mythic RE.

It costs just 275k ymens (which is nothing), but the real cost is the fodder gear (55).

Here's what common gear looks like from level 1 to 10.

[EpicBacon]

3 hours ago, Ravi-Sama said:

It doesn't have any resonance bonuses, but the raw power isn't that far from mythic gear, 200 to each vs 300.  50 Atk vs 75 Atk.  They're much easier to get, w/ fewer variations.

Really? not that far from mythic gear? 200 --> 300  and 50 --> 75 is a whopping 50% increase

[Liliat]

il y a 14 minutes, EpicBacon a dit :

Really? not that far from mythic gear? 200 --> 300  and 50 --> 75 is a whopping 50% increase

Yes and no. Since it is added to the much larger lvl 750 girls stats, it's a lot less.

For a lvl 750 L5 (25 base power), the equipment bonus is added to the base 18750 stats. With a common item, you get +600, and with a mythic item, you get +900

Common items give 3.2% and mythic give 4.8%

For a full set, you get:

- Common: 18750 + 6x600 = 22350

- Mythic: 18750 + 6x900 = 24150

That's a 8% global difference. Still pretty good, but a lot less than 50%. For mythic girls, it's even less, because their base stats are higher (21420 base, 25020 with 6x Common, 26820 with 6x Mythic, which is a 7% difference for 6 items)

[EpicBacon]

6 minutes ago, Liliat said:

Yes and no. Since it is added to the much larger lvl 750 girls stats, it's a lot less.

For a lvl 750 L5 (25 base power), the equipment bonus is added to the base 18750 stats. With a common item, you get +600, and with a mythic item, you get +900

Common items give 3.2% and mythic give 4.8%

For a full set, you get:

- Common: 18750 + 6x600 = 22350

- Mythic: 18750 + 6x900 = 24150

That's a 8% global difference. Still pretty good, but a lot less than 50%. For mythic girls, it's even less, because their base stats are higher (21420 base, 25020 with 6x Common, 26820 with 6x Mythic, which is a 7% difference for 6 items)

Okay, that is indeed a lot less, attack bonus on mythic will increase it tho.
And I assume this is also boosted if the girl in question is blessed? or is it base stat only?

[Liliat]

il y a 4 minutes, EpicBacon a dit :

Okay, that is indeed a lot less, attack bonus on mythic will increase it tho.

Absolutely; I only took the raw stats into account, but there is also a boost in Ego, Attack, Defense, and then there are the resonance (which is the true power of mythic equipment). A C10 item has +50 attack power, but a M1 item has more than that with the resonance bonus alone (Although it's a % value, so pretty hard to put a proper value on it. On my lvl 400/700 unboosted team on test, that's +44 Attack with 0.05% attack resonance, but that's almost a worst case scenario: I have less than 90k attack there. On main, with 120k base attack, that's +60 attack per M1 item)

il y a 9 minutes, EpicBacon a dit :

And I assume this is also boosted if the girl in question is blessed? or is it base stat only?

Resonance bonuses are not blessed; only the item stats are (HC/CH/KH). Ego/Damage/Defense is not blessed either.

That's because raw item stats are directly added to the girl's stat, then blessings are applied. This is use to calculate the base Attack/Defense/Ego values, and then equipment bonuses are added to that as well. And finally, resonance multipliers (and other multipliers) are applied.

I haven't checked how multipliers are applied yet (Are they multiplied with e.g. cordy multipliers, or added?). If they are added, M-gear is good. If they are multiplied, M-gear is excellent. Since other bonuses are usually multiplied with each other, I suspect it's the latter; but I would have to check.

[zoopokemon]

1 hour ago, Liliat said:

I haven't checked how multipliers are applied yet (Are they multiplied with e.g. cordy multipliers, or added?). If they are added, M-gear is good. If they are multiplied, M-gear is excellent. Since other bonuses are usually multiplied with each other, I suspect it's the latter; but I would have to check.

Multiplicative to the bonuses from cordy, also they appear to be multiplicative to each other as well, where player mythic equips resonance bonuses are additive to each other.

[Liliat]

il y a 3 minutes, zoopokemon a dit :

also they appear to be multiplicative to each other as well

Oh, I thought this would be huge, but actually running the numbers, it doesn't make such a difference. Despite being exponential, the values are low enough that it barely changes anything.

A full set (42 Items) would give slightly over 23% attack vs 21% if they were additive.

The most disappointing exponential growth ever

[EpicBacon]

How is the blessings added? Are they put in first, on the girl base stats, or the total girl stat?
As in are they put in before or after the girl equip, if its after then the 100 extra from mythic girl gear
would give another small boost.

[Liliat]

il y a 1 minute, EpicBacon a dit :

How is the blessings added? Are they put in first, on the girl base stats, or the total girl stat?
As in are they put in before or after the girl equip, if its after then the 100 extra from mythic girl gear
would give another small boost.

Blessing affects the Hardcore/Charm/Knowhow stats of the gear. So this is equivalent to applying the equipment stats to the girl, and then applying blessings (That's probably what happens in practice in the code).

This also means that gear provides more value if you apply it to a 30% blessed L5 girl rather than a 20% blessed M6 girl, even though the M6 girl would be stronger (As long as resonance matches both girls, of course. Getting the correct resonance is more important than boosting the raw stats of the gear).

That's why I added the blessing% value to the harem stats, as it will affect the strength of the gear:

[EpicBacon]

[Liliat]

So, I noticed the Double Date event layout is different between Main server and Test server. What does this mean?

Why are shards doubled in Equipment Pachinko, when this specific pachinko has 0 chance to give a girl?

[Ravi-Sama]

1 hour ago, Liliat said:

Why are shards doubled in Equipment Pachinko, when this specific pachinko has 0 chance to give a girl?

Double gear.  That's all it could mean.

[Liliat]

il y a 9 minutes, Ravi-Sama a dit :

Double gear.  That's all it could mean.

So young, so naive. Of course I checked that, and of course that's not what it does

[DvDivXXX]

Speaking of Pachinko in the context of this upcoming... thing.

Now would be a great opportunity to finally remove the dead currency from Epic pachinko (and from daily goals' final chest) and give us something not dead instead. Say, one random MGE piece (at least)? 

New players can get more than enough of these to complete the abandoned Messenger feature from Pantheon alone. And in case that's not enough, these could be added to temporary bonus rewards from stuff like PoG or PoV.

Either that, or at least allow us to sell those for some Ymens:

It seems really silly that we still have these in the permanent reward pool for features otherwise as valuable as EP and DG even though the Messenger has been discontinued for about a year by now.

I know, I know, @Tohru - Kinkoid: my feedback about it was already forwarded to the relevant team. But they have yet to do anything about it, so... I'm pitching the idea again in a different context. ^^

[EpicBacon]

1 hour ago, DvDivXXX said:

Speaking of Pachinko in the context of this upcoming... thing.

Now would be a great opportunity to finally remove the dead currency from Epic pachinko (and from daily goals' final chest) and give us something not dead instead. Say, one random MGE piece (at least)? 

New players can get more than enough of these to complete the abandoned Messenger feature from Pantheon alone. And in case that's not enough, these could be added to temporary bonus rewards from stuff like PoG or PoV.

Either that, or at least allow us to sell those for some Ymens:

It seems really silly that we still have these in the permanent reward pool for features otherwise as valuable as EP and DG even though the Messenger has been discontinued for about a year by now.

I know, I know, @Tohru - Kinkoid: my feedback about it was already forwarded to the relevant team. But they have yet to do anything about it, so... I'm pitching the idea again in a different context. ^^

Just let us convert the films into mythical girl equipment at a 1:1 ratio...

[Yamiray]

21 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

As for class and pose, there are 4 poses per class

If I recall there are anomaly to that

Charm	69	123
Charm	Column	122
Charm	Jack Hammer	119
Charm	Missionary	1
Charm	Nose Dive	120
Charm	Splitting Bamboo	2
Hardcore	69	2
Hardcore	Doggie Style	124
Hardcore	Dolphin	119
Hardcore	Jack Hammer	1
Hardcore	Missionary	121
Hardcore	Sodomy	119
Know-how	Bridge	121
Know-how	Doggie Style	1
Know-how	Indian Headstand	119
Know-how	Splitting Bamboo	117
Know-how	Suspended Congress	121

Those girls are

Duchess Scarlett
Cheerleader Cori
Kittie
Exam Ombresse
Rika
Elsie
Kiva

There may be more but some of the girl I don't have there poses

 

[bolitho76]

Looks like they messed up with class and pose sometimes. Perhaps @Tohru - Kinkoid should forward this list to the relevant guys at KK so they can fix it or confirm that this is so wanted (and why would nice in this case).

[Liliat]

As far as I can tell, they have all been fixed already. I don't see any inconsistency (using harem script filters).

[Tom208]

Il y a 7 heures, Liliat a dit :

Why are shards doubled in Equipment Pachinko, when this specific pachinko has 0 chance to give a girl?

Kinkoid's touch 😎