Patch notes 31/07/19 discussion

[jelom]

@ZackMacKenzie Interesting digression, but excessively long in my opinion, you are enabled to publish a book. I see you are very negative about the changes in league, I can also see some negative consecuences, but let give some weeks to test the new system. Kinkoid can change rules again anytime if the outcome is not what they expected.

About the points awarded, now the difference between a win and a loss is 3 to 1, with the new system in a close battle can be as low as 15  (win) to 12 (lose), but battles will fall in the range 17-20 for an easy win to 7-10 for a big loss.

[snowman22]

I am ok with the Champs being nerfed. I was spending too much time juggling gear.

The scoring change looks like it will lead to 2 classes of players. Boosted 24/7 and everybody else. I suspect kinkoid is trying to make boosters a must-have thing rather than an as-needed thing. I think this is going to drive some highly efficient players to drop down a league or two.

I think I like that rushing will be less attractive.

I agree with the comment by @czaz, the combat system is getting too complicated. Combined with how hard it is to get info in the game this is really annoying. The info you need is only available after you click on a player and wait for the info to be fetched, and some things require you to click through to their character page. List opponents by class? Dream on. More work.

Right now I only need to evaluate if I can beat an opponent. Now I have to start thinking if I can beat them by more if I wait. More work.

One point nobody has made (that I have seen) is that this will make battle team management much more painful. I run 2 teams of girls, my best (fully level and starred) for leagues and girls with xp/aff room for arena. I leave the arena team in place because they are needed every 30-60 min and swap the league team in every 8 hours or so for 10 minutes. I did not mind that everyone sees only my arena team. It did not hurt me. Now it does. Now I have leave the league team in place and swap the arena team in once an hour. More work.

We will see how it goes but it looks like kinkoid has created a combat system without giving the players the tools needed to use the system.

[_shal_]

11 minutes ago, jelom said:

@ZackMacKenzie Interesting digression, but excessively long in my opinion, you are enabled to publish a book. I see you are very negative about the changes in league, I can also see some negative consecuences, but let give some weeks to test the new system. Kinkoid can change rules again anytime if the outcome is not what they expected.

Yes, I'm looking forward to giving it a try on the test server for the next few weeks. Oh, wait...

[_shal_]

5 minutes ago, snowman22 said:

One point nobody has made (that I have seen) is that this will make battle team management much more painful. I run 2 teams of girls, my best (fully level and starred) for leagues and girls with xp/aff room for arena. I leave the arena team in place because they are needed every 30-60 min and swap the league team in every 8 hours or so for 10 minutes. I did not mind that everyone sees only my arena team. It did not hurt me. Now it does. Now I have leave the league team in place and swap the arena team in once an hour. More work.

I'm in the same situation, but I think I won't bother altering my behaviour. For each player in the league, I'm just one opponent out of ~100. With as high as the league scores are going to go now (assume somebody that wins all battles in a 100-player bracket => 300 * perhaps 17 points on average => over 5000 points), giving up an extra 2 or 3 points through a subpar team on the snapshots is unlikely to be the difference maker.

[Barf]

I'm positively surprised. Now if only they made PvP more player-dependent rather than merely level-dependent or RNG-dependent then it would start to resemble a system...

As for Know-How being favored - KH is already being directly and indirectly checked by Hardcore (indirectly - by the virtue of Charm being worthless and - supposedly? - a "counter" to Hardcore)

[windia]

15 minutes ago, _shal_ said:

Yes, I'm looking forward to giving it a try on the test server for the next few weeks. Oh, wait...

I also thought they will put it there first, even a reboot of current league round I could imagine.

But no - they decided to go full throttle into live...

 

 

As the two legendary items got reduced to one - whereas the two made Normal Pachinko quite worthless -  I support the idea of giving an legendary book instead. Well, they will not.

The rushing will be over, for sure. I will observe if I can stay in D3 - where I just end up where I can - or go down to D2 - where it becomes les predictable to come close to 15th just not overtake it...

And of course, there is no change in "you start always with 15 tokens at 5 am Paris time" instead of "continuous growth like combativity". Well, I can't have everything^^

I also hoped for a change in Champions access - giving access to all 5 star girls at same time.

 

The "superiority" of KH - we will see. I watched tower fights with first result +50k ego, second with -30k ego, third around 0 … No, I refused to do the math.

Edited July 29, 2019 by windia

[Observer_X]

1 hour ago, ZackMacKenzie said:

As usual, just my two cents, mostly just opinion informed by a few facts and probabilities. Your mileage may vary.

Forgive me pal, but I didn't have enough breath to read all that papyrus (you said two cents, but it looked more two million dollars). I give my excuses in advance if I will write similar things.

Regarding the patch notes, rule changes were quite relevant. The halving of the legendary items for the first four phases of each stage will not only halve the income from worthless item selling, but will disadvantage the "rush the stages to take the girl" tactic, giving renewed importance to the x10 Great Pachinko spin (and the x10 Epic Pachinko for the koban spenders) to obtain more legendary items to have a good and updated equipment.

About the changes in the league, I may be wrong, but at first glance I deem possible that the new point reward system will result in more equilibrated battle rewards, simply by the fact that calculations are made basing on the percentages of remaining or depleted EGO towards the player or the chosen enemy total, and not taking into account directly the EGO values. This also (quite strangely, come to think of it) could reduce the effectiveness of boosters, as even with legendary boosters, unless a player is devastatingly superior to his adversary (an extreme I deem quite difficult, now that leagues have almost reached a "plain" form, with almost any league turn, indipendently from the level, with 100-104 players without exxagerated differences in players strengths, apart the matter of tanking) probably will give only 1-2 points more per win (and 1-2 point less to the adversary per loss). Time will say if these, multiplied by the hundred of adversaries, with the new variability in rewards, will make a relevant difference, but I think that there is a possibility it does not. Of course there is the possibility, once there will be some concrete data in hand, that on this point I will be corrected, after all it is only a small hypothesis of mine.

[jelom]

2 hours ago, _shal_ said:

Yes, I'm looking forward to giving it a try on the test server for the next few weeks. Oh, wait...

I was trying not to be very pessimistic about this, but you are right, they haven't even tried this in the test server.

[snowman22]

2 hours ago, _shal_ said:

I'm in the same situation, but I think I won't bother altering my behaviour. For each player in the league, I'm just one opponent out of ~100. With as high as the league scores are going to go now (assume somebody that wins all battles in a 100-player bracket => 300 * perhaps 17 points on average => over 5000 points), giving up an extra 2 or 3 points through a subpar team on the snapshots is unlikely to be the difference maker.

I get a lot of bots in the arena so my arena team is REALLY weak. Its all new girls or legendaries not of my class. My league team has got D2 2-4 several times. My arena team would struggle in D1.

[Bomba]

4 hours ago, ZackMacKenzie said:

As usual, just my two cents, mostly just opinion informed by a few facts and probabilities. Your mileage may vary.

 

1) Champions & Legendary Equipment

First, let's talk about the Champions change. It's not that surprising given how irrelevant ymen and equipment have become in the short term. What bothers me are the long term effects and the timing.

In the long term, the glut would have resolved itself without any need for heavy-handed intervention.  As the Champions continuously become more and more jaded by our performances it becomes harder and harder to impress them.  So long as this continues forever (as opposed to reaching some kind of a cap after all the end-rewards have been claimed) every Champion would reach 2 different milestones. First, they would reach a point where we can't impress them without running out of tickets. Second, they would reach a point where the 24-hour 10% decay of impression would exceed the amount we could achieve with our tickets in one day.  For people who have already capped out the story and can use energy, these milestones are merely delayed not prevented. After that, each champion becomes an increasingly wasteful koban drain. At some point, the number of kobans needed to beat them and earn those legendary items would be prohibitive and players would avoid those Champions.  Resouce tapped out. Mine depleted. Problem solved.  All they are good for now is a small number of ymen for whatever amount of excess tickets & energy you have left over. Kobans would net more ymen by fighting Roko Sensei.

The timing issue is that the change is happening immediately. For those of us who have been depleting our tickets daily, there is no real cost to this. For those of us who have been rationing our tickets, this is a big fat burn and rip off.  Those people made decisions based on rules that are changing AND are given no time to respond or adapt to the new rules.  If you stopped fighting a Champion because you earned his girl and were saving him for later exploitation, PSYCH! His exploitability has just been cut in half!  Loser!  Serves you right for actually making sensible decisions!  If you stopped fighting a Champion because he was too hard for now, same problem. Essentially, anyone who has been playing the long game and hasn't been exhausting their tickets is being screwed.

C'mon Kinkoid. Give people time to get their affairs in order!  Even many criminals are afforded that luxury!

Agree with this. It screws up people who were rationing their tickets. Also I must say that overall it's reasonable to limit the legendary equipment. But it should be done with a warning at least a week prior.

4 hours ago, czaz said:

And this is why I'm probably done with it. If a fighting system in a hentai game inspires that many words from people, it's too damn contrived and complex. I'm just here for the anime tiddies.

Same. I'm not here for fighting. Now we can just farm xp there. I myself am more of a follower of thighdeology, but tiddies are welcome too. And honestly, I think thighs are not well represented here. Artists are good, but there's still room to step up.

[Dmytro]

5 hours ago, ZackMacKenzie said:

The timing issue is that the change is happening immediately.

The patch should only be live on July 31, so you have until then to use a portion of the champion ticket stockpile.  But think carefully as you may prefer one legendary equipment later (with a higher level) over two equipment now.

[fap.titans.gra]

1)The rewards from stage 1 to 4 will give 1 legendary item instead of 2.

if you want to change this, the champions must have a level limit, otherwise it's unfair.

2) league system

I do not know if this change is good. I'm glad the rush will finally be eliminated, but this change makes high-level players in particular KH have a big advantage over the rest of the players, we Will see in practice how it will work out, a better solution would be a change: the league ends, the places with the same result are randomly allocated.  It would change to rush because it does not guarantee first place, second place, third place ... etc.

Edited July 30, 2019 by fap.titans.gra

[TeeJay]

It starting to feel a bit much like 'work' for me. I've kind of played at the Champions but some of it is a bit too random. Like the Champion who's girl gets 6 of her favorite position in the cycle and you have to reset your team time and again to try and get something to counter the boosted ego damage.

And as for Leagues, I kind of just stopped at Dick 1 as the shift from 1 to 2 was logarithmic in opponent strength. In D1 I could easily be in the top 5 range but in D2 I have to fight tooth and nail to stay in the 30-60. If I miss a full round, like for work, then I'm back up in the 80s.

So my only concern is that now it's going to be harder to judge how to stay in the 15-30 range on D1

[Dari89]

4 hours ago, TeeJay said:

And as for Leagues, I kind of just stopped at Dick 1 as the shift from 1 to 2 was logarithmic in opponent strength. In D1 I could easily be in the top 5 range but in D2 I have to fight tooth and nail to stay in the 30-60. If I miss a full round, like for work, then I'm back up in the 80s.

So my only concern is that now it's going to be harder to judge how to stay in the 15-30 range on D1

Yep same here, decided to stay in D1, in D2 can't even stay under 46th.

[blaa]

well, not sure what i should say about this patch, but a few things came to my mind ...

1) If I have to be boosted the whole week, it's cheaper than rush at the beginning (4xepic boosters x7 280 (legendary boosters 420), for a rush I needed around 600-700 kobans (nutaku player)), there are also benefits in the arena fights, where i on the one side most of the time also fight boosted players and on the other side should get an advantage as a very active player (for contests, weekly ToF, etc.)

2) If you had had problems with staying up long or waking up early, you will still have problems - you probablly need to wake up 15 minutes earlier to finish the league

3) It seems like a lot more work to do, if you really want to have a first place - log in more, be more patient, be more observing, do more math, have more luck, ...

4) Getting a lot of XP seems to get harder, more bossted player, less wins - but on the other side, you can time your lvl ups better and more useful

 

Overall I think if you get a first place it could be cheaper and more fun than rushing but it costs you a lot more of your free time, and I personally do not want to spend more of it

Edited July 30, 2019 by blaa

[[CNO] BananaJoy]

Après une matinée à discusser avec l'ensemble de l'équipe : normalement, le nouveau système de point ne se lancera qu'avec la nouvelle ligue

After a morning to discuss with the whole team: normally, the new point system will only start with the new league (google translated). from the french discord (by kaos). So we keep our current points and ranks from this league season.

 

 

[4v4dd0n]

By the way, Devs have forgotten to change the description in Stage 1-4, it still says that 2 legendaries item will be rewarded upon Champ's defeat..... so lame.

Edited July 31, 2019 by 4v4dd0n

[DHarry]

Yes, I was fooled by that tooltip too. AlsoI think it just hurts lower level players harder. They never had the chance to get 2 items from Ryu, while others got them from Alban (not me, so STUCK on Visor) 

 

If you think KH gets a good deal on the league, let's not forgeet how often it was pissed upon before. Only HC never had to deal with a champion of their class that has the same class as their girl. Matsuda Albane is tough sometimes, but nothing hurts like Any having 2, 3 or more times Suspended Congress in her rotation. Also HC counters us, but CH doesn't counter HC. Sounds like CH's problem (which it is) but also a KH problem as our advantage over CH is worthless.

I think, while it prevents rushing, it will not be more fun per se. A win was a win, no matter how tough. We'll see how it playes out. I guess they didnt put it on the test server to not give people that are there an (unfair?) advantage over the rest, having practice and such. But yeah, now it's um, a surprise. 

21 hours ago, [CNO] BananaJoy said:

Après une matinée à discusser avec l'ensemble de l'équipe : normalement, le nouveau système de point ne se lancera qu'avec la nouvelle ligue

After a morning to discuss with the whole team: normally, the new point system will only start with the new league (google translated). from the french discord (by kaos). So we keep our current points and ranks from this league season.

 

 

That's the only thing they could do. Then again, it is Kinkoid. You never know.  

[Daniele]

28 minutes ago, DHarry said:

I guess they didnt put it on the test server to not give people that are there an (unfair?) advantage over the rest, having practice and such. But yeah, now it's um, a surprise. 

At least they could have warned us a week in advance. This week I didn't fight in my D3 league to get demoted, but if i had known about this, probably i wouldn't have done so.

Now i don't know if i should test the new system in D2, using Epic boosters all week... As a charm player, i don't know if i can do well with that useless specialty 😒

[windia]

In the beginning I read "10 % decrease after 24 h". I didn't worry much as I without further proof slept well because I thought "10 % of the already gained Impression. If I did not fight 24 h.

What a fool I was:

• a fight does not renew the 24 h - they tick tock regardless my activity (k, I can make all possible Impression)
• These 10 % are not calculated on behalf of my gained expression - they are based on the current Impression to make!
• Quote "The impression is reduced by 10% (of the max) once every 24 hours after the initial performance; " from offiial patch notes (https://forum.hentaiheroes.com/index.php?/topic/10274-patch-notes-260619/)
• 
•  

So I get like 300k each ticket.

24 h to get 1 mio  or more. Makes 4 tickets just to avoid a net loss.

All in all it makes 32 tickets to get this very first stage for this account. That are at least 8 hours constant playing within one day.

Now I think about I have to battle Alban all five stages (worst case) 8 times… where he becomes stronger and stronger - faster than me....

omg.

And I had to waste so many tickets to just finish University and Visor one time to unlock Alban for my main stat girl...

omg

Edited July 31, 2019 by windia

[Taorin]

So most people have been talking about what this means to high end players and whales in league but I'd like to give an impression from a medium level player currently in S2.

I am absolutely ****ed. completely and totally. I will probably never win another league until I hit level 400. Why you ask? Because anything above wanker is infested with level 300+ players that dominate the wins almost every week. Before I had a slim chance if I use boosters and get a perfect score with a couple refills to get there first. The average level of people in the top 15 of my S2 is ~200 and guess who's gonna win this week? almost certainly the level 318 power player that can stomp his way to a win with no effort.

Under the new system the 300+ people will get even MORE points compared to everyone else, getting even easier wins at lower and mid leagues and ensuring that no one moving up the leagues naturally will ever win. The demote/1st place cycle is killing competition and they chose to focus on the very end of the leagues where people rush to perfect scores at the expense of mid and low level leagues.

[ZackMacKenzie]

4 hours ago, DHarry said:

But yeah, now it's um, a surprise.

A surprise, like an emergency appendectomy. 😕

[ZackMacKenzie]

1 hour ago, windia said:

24 h to get 1 mio  or more. Makes 4 tickets just to avoid a net loss.

Honestly, I think it's not as bad as you make out.

1. If you make it through your Arena challenge you get 2 tickets daily.
    
2. In an average day of 48 troll fights (combativity) you'll get at least 2 tickets.
   
   That means you could cover the 4 required with fairly little luck or effort
   .
3. Missions seem to average about 1 ticket per day. Personally, I've been given 36 compared to the 68 I've pulled from Arena play (2 per day), so I'm averaging slightly more than 1/day.  Still some days it's zero and others it's 2 or rarely 3, so it isn't entirely reliable. 
    
4. Tickets are available from contests. Since Champions began I've somehow managed to collect 78 tickets, 71 out of the last 96 available (I wasn't counting as closely in the first few days). That's probably on the high side, but it at least shows the potential of Contests to provide tickets.
   
   Between Missions and Contests, you should already be in the clear to make progress daily. Does it mean we'll no longer be able to fight all or at least multiple Champions every day?  Yes, but that's been the reality for many (most?) players for a while now.
    
5. That still leaves the 3 Daily freebie tickets you get so long as you have 7 or less when the timer goes off.  If you're worried about having 4 to stay ahead of the decay then you should have under 7 over all. So far, I've only gotten the initial 3 free tickets and none since, though I expect that to change later today.

So, just playing the game semi-casually should get you 7 to 10 tickets daily, 10 to 13 if you keep your balance very low. Optimizing your play will add 0-9 Contest reward tickets to that daily earning, more than enough to stay ahead of any one Champion's decay rate.  Given that I've already needed as many as 21 tickets to fully impress a champion without dealing with daily decay I was prepared for this process to turn into a tedious ordeal.

 

Given my hero's strength I will also be looking at multiple-day battles even with my relatively decent ticket income. The halving of the equipment rewards does make the wait feel less worthwhile.  That said, did they take something fun and turn it into something that for many can be frustrating at best?  YES!  But they don't force us to partake of this game feature, either.

 

Frankly, I'm OK with this aspect of the game. Would I rather have 2 than 1, sure!  But to be honest, I find the non-girl special rewards to be entirely meaningless and more problematic!  If you get the girl early, wonderful! Bully for you. You can ignore that Champ and move on to the others until you've gotten them all or get bored. But going from 4 cycles of Legendary equipment to 1 cycle of effectively nada is a major let down.

I would have included at least something of in-game value for non-girl drops! Perhaps a common/rare book for Romero/Whaty, a rare/epic book for Matsuda/Ryu and an epic/legendary book from the top 2 Champions would be a fair complement to the entirely esoteric theme/background/profile items? I thought this before the change and find it even more sensible now that the intermediate cycles have been nerfed.  The single Legendary Gift for 5th cycles after clearing out the Champ's rewards could also use a boost in utility from Gifts to Books... 

[Pelinor]

IMHO with the changes on the Champions and Tower of Fame the game is now in two parts.

 

For those with zero to modest incomes, you can play in the Adventure, Activities, and Arena areas with brief forays in the Pachinco, Tower, and Champions areas, but the system has changed so you will not win and will only be frustrated by the slow game pace and obvious bias towards those with money to spend. We no longer have (if we ever did) a playing field where each player has the same opportunities to advance and thrive.

[GeorgeMTO]

4 minutes ago, Pelinor said:

IMHO with the changes on the Champions and Tower of Fame the game is now in two parts.

 

For those with zero to modest incomes, you can play in the Adventure, Activities, and Arena areas with brief forays in the Pachinco, Tower, and Champions areas, but the system has changed so you will not win and will only be frustrated by the slow game pace and obvious bias towards those with money to spend. We no longer have (if we ever did) a playing field where each player has the same opportunities to advance and thrive.

Instead the free players have all the same opportunities they did in the past, plus small access to some other features, and paid players have access to new content that wasn't around before. The new champion feature doesn't take things away from the old content.