_shal_ Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 21.01 average for 4th place? Well, damn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jelom Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, _shal_ said: 21.01 average for 4th place? Well, damn. Luck in getting adversaries in league is a good part of success. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Тёмный Властелин Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 This week results: 104 players: 414 - highest level, 235 - lowest, median - 330,53 made 274 battles: 249 - wins, 15 - losses, 45 remaining tokens average points for wins: 18,200 15th place score - 4586; got 17th with 4577 points was boosted for 2 days: 2 times 2 legendary chlorella + 2 epic cordyceps total XP gain - ~63000 This time I played very carefully and made 13 points 0 times. All the losses were 3 points 0 damage performances. Relatively easy pace going league. 😎 Still not sure what is the best approach with boosters for me. Good luck in hoarding, guys! 🤣 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E. N. D. Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Hello, I don't know really how but I won my D3 by 3points more than Mot_131. Maybe he did a mistake? maybe I was lucky?Maybe is it the club's mutual aid strategy that worked (thank's to boss @Flyfor this ...) But It was a good surprise 😁. I played 80 per cent of the league as a KH player, the remaining 20% as CH. This week for the second time in a row I am with Mot_131, I think he won't let me win this time , but I will do everything to stay at his level . Good evening everyone 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator DvDivXXX Posted June 4, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 4, 2020 29 minutes ago, Тёмный Властелин said: 2 legendary chlorella + 2 epic cordyceps 29 minutes ago, Тёмный Властелин said: Still not sure what is the best approach with boosters for me. You're CH. You benefit from neither of the above anywhere near as much as the other classes do (I feel there should be a Defense booster, perhaps instead of those stupid Harmony boosters that nobody uses? if there was one, it would be top-notch for CH). Maybe try 4 ginseng roots once? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karyia Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Another good week over here as I was able to replicate the same results/standings I managed to finish my D2 on 21st. Thankfully, and as _shal_ had noted, lots of the middle-pack players were boosted and so the difficulty level wasn't as high as it seemed. The league seems very similar to the previous one, so hopefully I'll able to repeat once more 🙏👌 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Тёмный Властелин Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 @DvDivXXX there are a lot of nuances. I don't even know from what side to approach them. The current state is: Legendary chlorella and cordyceps hoard better than ginseng (and jujubes but it's hot garbage) from mythic pachinko for some reason (for me at least). Epic chlorella gives too little ego (I have 240k) Epic cordyceps gives a lot of attack (even more than the legendary one for now). Epic ginseng gives a little bit of this and a little bit of that but still feels somehow weaker than epic cordyceps and much weaker than legendary chlorella. Legendary ginseng is rare from mythic pachinko. For now I have 25k charm points, 23.7 hardcore and 20.5 know-how. So it gives a bit better stats that the epic one but not that much. The nuances are: Price. You always want for as little of an expense as much of a profit. In that regard it is better to use ??? Current stats + battle team and opponents level. I have only one 5 star legendary girl of my class (the worst one) and maxed charm and hardcore stats. Know-how stats are far away from maxing. Most of my leagues opponents are much higher than me in level and stats. I lack damage and survivability. From that perspective it is better to use ??? Goal. The goal is to get 15-30 place scoring as little points as possible. To do so you need to use ??? All these things clash with each other and mess the whole picture. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Slynia Posted June 4, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 4, 2020 I forgot to take a screenshot this week, but I won with 6898 points, 90 points over 2nd place. I only got a 22.99 points average per fight this week. I have recently been consistent with my >23 points an average, unlucky with harmony I'm sure 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sygfried94 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 25 minutes ago, Slynia said: I forgot to take a screenshot this week, but I won with 6898 points, 90 points over 2nd place. I only got a 22.99 points average per fight this week. I have recently been consistent with my >23 points an average, unlucky with harmony I'm sure league are harder as time pass, competition inside the league will become more and more the norm and high score over 23 will become harder to do. it's due to the stats. they grow linear while the point system is a %, So the grow of the lvl inside the league is making the % between each player thiner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Slynia Posted June 4, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, Sygfried94 said: league are harder as time pass, competition inside the league will become more and more the norm and high score over 23 will become harder to do. it's due to the stats. they grow linear while the point system is a %, So the grow of the lvl inside the league is making the % between each player thiner. Nah it gotta be harmony. Jokes aside. My D3 league last week was harder (more high leveled players) and I averaged 23.22, so I got a decrease of 0.23 in just 1 week. At least for the latest 2 months, I have been getting between 23.15 - 23.25. This is why I jokingly said "unlucky with harmony I'm sure " when it is in more likelihood just me slacking off more compared to the week before as I was fairly certain that I was going to win anyway. Not to say that harmony didn't play a factor whatsoever tho ^^ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_shal_ Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 25 minutes ago, Sygfried94 said: league are harder as time pass, competition inside the league will become more and more the norm and high score over 23 will become harder to do. it's due to the stats. they grow linear while the point system is a %, So the grow of the lvl inside the league is making the % between each player thiner. I'm not so sure that the best D3 players are getting stronger at a (relatively) slower speed than the average D3 player, considering the average player will only be winning perhaps 60 to 70% of their league battles and consequently have much lower XP gains than the players who win every battle. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jelom Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 5 hours ago, E. N. D. said: I played 80 per cent of the league as a KH player, the remaining 20% as CH. So another strategy to be worried about it. Do you use that aproach of changing class against stronger and weaker players? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator DvDivXXX Posted June 4, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Тёмный Властелин said: @DvDivXXX there are a lot of nuances. I don't even know from what side to approach them. The current state is: [...] I see. Well, you have very specific goals and beyond that, honestly there would be a lot to discuss on the points you made, but I feel this would get a bit off-topic for this thread (you might want to create a dedicated thread in the Q&A section, several of the greats visit it regularly to help out people with specific questions). Here, I just gave you a quick and global rule of thumb about booster types for your class, not even getting into booster rarity. To stay on topic, I feel that you might be putting a bit too much effort into min-maxing your top 30 position in D1 at your level (even though it's a cool experiment in and of itself and probably great training for the big leagues later on). I would recommend putting a little more effort into the very basics first and foremost, like maxing all three of your hero's stats ASAP, and keeping them maxed out, getting the most solid line-up you can for your class (meaning two 3-star legendaries of your class behind your lone 5-star of your class, until you get your second one), and more generally asking yourself what has the best synergy with your class, what helps you win, what prevents you from losing, and so on. It seems to me that it might be a better strategy to skip bad fights altogether (although you seem to already be doing that as well to an extent) and focusing on improving your win rate and how many points you score when you win, rather than the tiny bit of XP you get from playing out your sure losses, even if you manage to score 0 points while doing so. Reading your weekly reports, I always find myself wondering how you manage to squeeze in that many fights (unless you spend kobans on refills, which would be wasteful for a top 30 in D1). I almost always run out of tokens and/or reach the "promotion danger zone" way before I run out of opponents. So the opponents that look like guaranteed losses I just skip outright. Then again, maybe if I took a page of two from your book, I would still be in D2 this week instead of promoting to D3 when I didn't want to. I'll give it a try next week, actually. EDIT: I take this back! It baffles me that I never realized how useful this strategy is by myself and even more so that no one made me realize it in close to 10 months of playing this game, and reading and researching everything I can about it. Until you, good Sir! Thanks a ton. I'll be the one calling you sensei from now on. ^^ Edited June 4, 2020 by DvDivXXX 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaa Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 12 hours ago, E. N. D. said: I played 80 per cent of the league as a KH player, the remaining 20% as CH. For this commitement you deserve the win! Really impressive and a totaly new strategy for me (but I wont use it my d2 fights since it's obvious if I have a chance to win the league or not most of the times) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben9 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 On 5/28/2020 at 1:21 PM, DvDivXXX said: So yeah. The League system is utterly broken for mid-level players at this time, and it's only getting worse every week. I'm still interested in constructive suggestions as to how I could build a strategy that would improve my situation in this mess, but I doubt it's even possible to become the next Shal by now. My strategy (level 379 now but been doing this for months) is to just rank as close to 16th in D2 every week as possible. Its easy to do, good value for kobans (next best would be top 30 d3 but thats way harder), don't need boosters so its cheap, and I get to win most fights so decent XP. Sometimes need to waste a few battle tokens on the final day to avoid going higher. I very occasionally try and top4 the D2 if it looks like an easy enough group. But tbh it often backfires as so many level 400+ players do that too, and finishing 5-15 is much worse as it means losing XP for a week to leave D3 again and also gives less kobans over the two week period. So I rarely bother anymore unless I feel like its a guaranteed shot, its a lot of effort for little or no reward. There sadly is no strategy that will propel you into the top d3 group other than keep being active and earning XP and hope other players go inactive. Game is designed that way. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E. N. D. Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 (edited) @jelom Yes, I use charm class against the strongest opponents. I think I have better results with this strategy. When I play charm class in arena my victory rate increase and all my opponents are stronger than me with KH class. For me it seems to work in league too. Have a nice day Edited June 5, 2020 by E. N. D. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHarry Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 I didn't calculate my average, but I finished 6631 point and came in 4th in a league table I was supposed to finish closer to 10th than 5th. Not complaining, I'll gladly take the kobans, especially since this week it's even tougher. But that's for the other thread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHarry Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 18 hours ago, E. N. D. said: Hello, I don't know really how but I won my D3 by 3points more than Mot_131. Maybe he did a mistake? maybe I was lucky?Maybe is it the club's mutual aid strategy that worked (thank's to boss @Flyfor this ...) But It was a good surprise 😁. I played 80 per cent of the league as a KH player, the remaining 20% as CH. This week for the second time in a row I am with Mot_131, I think he won't let me win this time , but I will do everything to stay at his level . Good evening everyone Hmm, intriguing. That's, if planned well 600 kobans a week (20-80 / 80-20 / 20- 80 etc) to change classes. Of course it's worth it if it makes you win. May try it out this week as I'm completely without a chance for top 4 normally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_shal_ Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 Random thought: Maybe players who wish to maximize their XP gains while idling in the top 30 of their league tier should switch to Hardcore. Since it's all about winning battles while keeping the win points down, the class with the weakest special move may be the one to use. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator DvDivXXX Posted June 5, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 5, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, _shal_ said: Hardcore. [...] the class with the weakest special move [...] So it's official now? You're on the "CH is the new KH" hype train too? ^^ Even coming from you, I'm still extremely skeptical on this. It might be relevant for super high-level players fighting for the top of D3, who routinely earn so many kobans from just being veterans in the current league system that some of them can even afford back and forth class changes at 600 kobans apiece every week apparently, on top of all the boosters and whatnot, and still make a profit, thanks to Kinkoid's laughable lack of any basic understanding of what a balanced PvP system might even be... But other than that, for the 99% of players who aren't swimming in kobans, I really don't see it. (Note: I'm not hating on those players, I'm just tired of Kinkoid's pathetic excuse for a PvP system, that's all; if I happened to be in the small group that gets to benefit from its flaws exponentially, I'd take the mountains of free kobans too! but the the system itself would be imbalanced as hell all the same). Is taking less damage here and there really better than doing more damage here and there? It's all very RNG dependent, but it doesn't sound like it to me. Neither seems anywhere near as good as outright healing yourself here and there, in any case. Edited June 5, 2020 by DvDivXXX format 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jelom Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 4 hours ago, _shal_ said: Random thought: Maybe players who wish to maximize their XP gains while idling in the top 30 of their league tier should switch to Hardcore. Since it's all about winning battles while keeping the win points down, the class with the weakest special move may be the one to use. My understanding is that you are thinking about a (semi)permanent change of class and not a back and forth class every week, because someone willing to stay in D2 or D1 16-30 is supposed to not be swimming in kobans to be able to spend 600 kobans every week. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator DvDivXXX Posted June 5, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 5, 2020 (edited) 21 minutes ago, jelom said: My understanding is that you are thinking about a (semi)permanent change of class and not a back and forth class every week, because someone willing to stay in D2 or D1 16-30 is supposed to not be swimming in kobans to be able to spend 600 kobans every week. To clarify, I understood Shal's advice the same as you did. And he might be right (he usually is when it comes to game mechanics). My comment wasn't questioning that, but rather the fact that he seems to consider CH stronger than HC now, which is a new idea that started to pop up here and there over the past couple of months or so (quite a while after the CH buff, oddly enough), especially in this very thread (and it goes along with a trend of class changes that is becoming noticeable in the leagues themselves) and which doesn't convince me so far (as I mentioned, except maybe for the 1% or so of the community fighting at the top of D3, I'll have to take you guys' word for it though ^^). In general, I still lose to HC players way more often than CH players, and that's still true for most other (non-veteran) players I know. EDIT: As for the idea itself, even if it yielded better results in the position I'm currently stuck at, I don't think I could bring myself to do it. Classes should be balanced, leagues should be balanced, the game should be balanced. And I feel strongly about playing the KH class (I did way before it became universally acclaimed as the best class, and I'll still do even if CH does become technically stronger, unless they nerf "my class" into oblivion). Besides, I don't have 600 kobans to spare for that, period (let alone weekly or at least twice, once now and once again whenever I can get out of the progress limbo that is the mid-game). Besides, I think HC's special can actually be counterproductive when it procs, if you're aiming to score as low as possible in terms of points while you're leeching XP. Edited June 5, 2020 by DvDivXXX two-for-one post ^^ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linkdream Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 (edited) Finished 3rd this week! Granted it was a weak pool but still! At my level I would never have dreamed to reach top 4 in D3 so soon. I only lost 1 fight and it was by mistake because the guy I was fighting before 6PM got back their boost afterward and I attacked them without paying attention. Edited June 5, 2020 by linkdream 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Тёмный Властелин Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 (edited) Warning! Long post ahead! 23 hours ago, DvDivXXX said: I see. Well, you have very specific goals [...] Yep, I won't pollute the thread. But I'm too lazy for a dedicated thread with long read texts typing. 😀 At least for now. 23 hours ago, DvDivXXX said: To stay on topic, I feel that you might be putting a bit too much effort [...] Well, additional XP is always better than nothing, right? Even if it is 2k XP per week, which is ridiculous, but still, there is no other way to, somewhat, decrease the XP gap. Or, to be more precise, decrease the volume of increasing gap between me and high level D3 players, who don't miss fights and gain more. 23 hours ago, DvDivXXX said: I would recommend putting a little more effort into the very basics [...] Yep, I'm the All Mastery of patience here. 😀 I had the opportunity after the recent PoA to switch into Know-how with 2 maxed 5 star legendaries and maxed Know-how and Charm stats (primary and secondary stats for Know-how) but decided to take a muuuch slower approach and invest 120m Ymens into maxing Hardcore stats (secondary stat for Charm class), cause I don't see the immediate benefit for me becoming Know-how. Well, there may be benefit when I'll compete in D3 in 2 years time from now 😃 or even further. But now... is it even good for me to heal my hitpoints if I want to score as little as possible per fight? Not really, right? 🙂 The more I think about all this XP, leagues "stuff" or "mess", whatever you may call it, the more I'm towards a chill pace. I don't expect anything and just do whatever I can to properly level my character and earn some kobans. My primary source of kobans are (and will be for a long forseeable time) contests. That's my main focus. 23 hours ago, DvDivXXX said: It seems to me that it might be a better strategy to skip bad fights altogether (although you seem to already be doing that as well to an extent) That's the exact thing that I'm doing. I just don't battle for 1 day per week, cause the wins give you more XP overall than "bad" (4 points and further) losses. To somewhat deminish this waiting time I battle the "sure losses" (100% 3 points), which always give you the same amount of XP as wins but for lesser amount of points in the league, which gives you additional opportunity to battle more fights. Example. You get ~265 XP for defeating a strong opponent and ~16-19 points in the league and you get 54 XP for sure loss 5 times and 3 points - 270 XP and 15 points. There were 5 opponents last time in the league and now, in the current league, there are also 5 oppononts, where I can do 3 point losses - 15 battles. It is 5x 3-4 additional points - ~ +1 more win battle to do. Not that much but still. 23 hours ago, DvDivXXX said: I always find myself wondering how you manage to squeeze in that many fights (unless you spend kobans on refills, which would be wasteful for a top 30 in D1) I use Shal's script and change the girls for every opponent and try to reach the least possible amount of yellow numbers in the simulation. And score 16-19 (sometimes 20) points. I don't spend any kobans on refills. In the end I always have plenty of them unused. 23 hours ago, DvDivXXX said: Then again, maybe if I took a page of two from your book, I would still be in D2 this week instead of promoting to D3 when I didn't want to. I'll give it a try next week, actually. This "method" is good if you're 70-100 levels behid of your opponents. The lesser level you are, the better it works. I don't know about the situation in D3. Maybe it's the same as everywhere. Like 5-10 guys are super competitive and the rest don't use boosters and miss tokens. Or maybe I'm wrong and you will be able to squeeze more profit from it. Good luck. 😉 P.S. Too long of a post. Sorry, guys. Edited June 5, 2020 by Тёмный Властелин 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_shal_ Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, jelom said: My understanding is that you are thinking about a (semi)permanent change of class and not a back and forth class every week, because someone willing to stay in D2 or D1 16-30 is supposed to not be swimming in kobans to be able to spend 600 kobans every week. Yes. My comment was admittedly prompted by @E. N. D. 's idea of combining Charm+KH (because that's basically "anything but HC"), but I meant it as a long(er)-term strategy. 3 hours ago, DvDivXXX said: So it's official now? You're on the "CH is the new KH" hype train too? ^^ No, I still consider KH to be somewhat better, but IMHO the difference between KH and Ch is now (significantly) smaller than between Ch and HC. I was jokingly asked on Discord earlier today if I was going to incorporate class switching into my league approach now, but I can only repeat what I said there: I'm not convinced that going Charm for part of the week actually offers any real advantage, and even if it's true against certain opponents I don't think it would offer any benefit to me personally. (Since it would have to come at the expense of other optimized parts of how I play now, mostly the use of different booster setups through the week.) FWIW, the one big drawback of the Charm special is that it's very easy to play stupidly as a Charm player, even after the buff, much moreso than the other two classes. Laughing at people who are Charm and equip themselves with six monostat items never gets old. Quote Is taking less damage here and there really better than doing more damage here and there? It's all very RNG dependent, but it doesn't sound like it to me. Neither seems anywhere near as good as outright healing yourself here and there, in any case. Equipped properly, Narcissism can save more than 10% ego worth of damage, making it rival Reassurance in value, and the possibility to stack it for 4x defense with RNG luck can make it superior, even. The problems are: 1) Narcissism triggers on the defensive turn, so in winning battles you get one turn less to trigger it than KH players do, 2) if it triggers on your last defensive turn you only get half of its effect, and 3) against weak opponents you won't receive its full benefit if their attack value is less than twice your defense value, since you can't take less than zero damage. 2 hours ago, DvDivXXX said: My comment wasn't questioning that, but rather the fact that he seems to consider CH stronger than HC now, which is a new idea that started to pop up here and there over the past couple of months or so (quite a while after the CH buff, oddly enough) I don't know about that. Over on Discord it was pretty much the day-one consensus opinion after the buff that Charm is now better than Hardcore. It just didn't get much traction as a topic of discussion since there's little point talking about "Ch vs HC" when the real answer hasn't changed and is still "KH". Quote In general, I still lose to HC players way more often than CH players, and that's still true for most other (non-veteran) players I know. Lose in individual battles or lose in the league standings? IMHO, Charm players still being unsuccessful in the leagues is primarily because there's still no real point in switching to Charm permanently, so the vast majority of Charm players in the leagues are people who stuck with the class for the nearly two years that it was absolutely terrible. These are not people one would expect to be very PvP-focused, since almost any savvy (high level) PvP player had switched to HC or KH at some point since mid-2018. For simply winning individual battles, yeah, HC is still better than the two other classes. It just sucks at maximizing the league points awarded for those wins. Edited June 5, 2020 by _shal_ 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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