E. N. D. Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 Hello here, Since several month I read you every week, thank's to jelom for that. @jelomThank's for congratulation too but isn't it too early ? League isn't done yet.... I'm aggree with you about Laymu, but in each league we have one or more players affect by this bug . I think this problem increase with the level of the player due to legendary booster … But Lola say they don't gave up on this problem. Actually Charm playing is more efficient against strong players than know how. In our league 50% were over lvl400 with around 20 HC … It works easily in arena (against my opponents) but I didn't know if it can be use in league … we'll see tomorrow. About my alpha change , I did it just for fun. PS: sorry for my english but you know French people aren't good in other language 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zteev Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 This week will be interesting for sure. It will be the first of many weeks where I won't be awake for reset, so it'll be a strategy of get as high as I can, and hope to not drop below 30th after I go to bed. I doubt I will drop out of the top 45.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Slynia Posted May 21, 2020 Moderator Share Posted May 21, 2020 Winning when you think you'll end up 2nd always feels nice. I really needed this win cuz this week all hope is lost as I am tied for the 4th highest player (together with GetOverHere with his 10 D3 wins). Above us is [CNO] Cadmos with 3 D3 wins, and the player who will definitely win this week: govenants with 44 D3 wins. Well, you can't win every week! 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaa Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) finished 17 with 7 points to 15 and 43 points to 31. This season it looks really promising so far, only two players over 400 and all players who have similar stats than I do havent won d2 so far, let's hope it stays this way. edit1: well, player 104 was a lvl 397-kh with 7 d2 wins, but he seems to be a rusher, should be beatable, i guess, let's see what happens next Edited May 21, 2020 by blaa 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jelom Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 As told before, E.N.D. won this week. I knew my distance wouldn't be great but my average was under 23 this time. A 2nd place is always good. Nari jumped to 3rd and Laymu finally gave some terrain to finish 4th, so my assesment of this week is that charm can be very competitive now, but you have to be a good player too to take advantage of it. this week I have dido lv438, 10 wins as main rival, Isi lv 445 but no wins could be a rival if he start to play leagues seriously. And I will start to track the top charm players too, of course. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_shal_ Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 On 5/15/2020 at 6:15 PM, _shal_ said: Darkyz (KH 432, 12 wins) gugu2111 (KH 431, 7 wins) Korpati1 (KH 423, 5x second place, just defeated me last week) Manu (KH 422, 5x second place) Lolilover (KH 418, 4 wins) are all players that are very likely out of my range, so I won't be going for a top 4 this time. Surprise, the presumed 5 best players finished...in the first 5 spots: Averages of 22.59 / .52 / .51 / .14 / .09, so yeah, that would have been difficult for me. Surprisingly high finish for Hollo though, which makes me wonder if I could have beaten the 6709 after all... No matter though, I didn't have enough time to play this week right anyway. In any case, I cruised to an easy top 15 finish: Could have used fewer boosters, I suppose, but then I'd have lost more battles and missed out on more XP. I did lose 5 times against the top 3 levelled players (2 / 1 / 2 losses), but I saw all of them unboosted later, so that almost certainly wouldn't have happened in a "proper" season. Used 4 sets of boosters for the week: - 4 L Chlorella - 2 L Chlorella + 2 L Cordyceps - 4 L Cordyceps - 4 L Chlorella So effectively only 540 kobans in spending for the 6 Cordyceps, since the Chlorellas were just gathering dust in my inventory anyway. I did the last 15 (weak) opponents unboosted on the final day, and actually still saw my average rise from about 20.75 to 20.85... I'll be back to competing for real this week, although I'm not sure I'll be able to reach the top 4 this time either. There are 3 people I almost certainly won't beat and a couple of lesser threats. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Slynia Posted May 21, 2020 Moderator Share Posted May 21, 2020 9 minutes ago, jelom said: charm can be very competitive now, but you have to be a good player too to take advantage of it. Yeah charm has the potential to be the strongest specialty, a defense of 25k (which is easily obtained at our level with ginseng boosters, govenants in my league currently have above 26k defense so) blocks an extra 50k damage, you need 500k ego to recover 50k ego if you're a know-how player. So on paper the charm speciality is stronger than know-how, because if you have >500k ego you are running the wrong boosters to be competitive anyway. However, the reason top players still choose know-how is the fact that you can recover ego on your last hit if you're lucky, charm speciality wont do anything if it's your last hit. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator DvDivXXX Posted May 21, 2020 Moderator Share Posted May 21, 2020 Well... Last week was a quite a ride, and not in a good way. I ended up barely Top 4 in my S3 league. The one that I assumed I had a good shot at winning... Even though I've reached level 300 during the week, and was boosted and planning my fights meticulously (except that one time I lost 3 sure wins before noticing my boosters had expired ^^ but that wouldn't have changed all that much), well... these guys (and two others who came a bit later to the party but were almost as tough to beat) stole my thunder: I'm not sure which one ended up grabbing the prize, but probably the one on the left (who I caught unboosted as shown above, but still lost to with barely 10 points per fight). The insane thing is that even the #1 prize in S3 is nowhere near enough to even make up for all the kobans he spent on boosters and, more surprisingly, refills. Tons and tons of refills! The guy made partial rushes every other day or so, throughout the week. Even though he was fully boosted (including legendary boosters) every single day (except for that one 6-hour window in which I fought him). Beyond this particular player (and the other few competitors I had for top 4) playing ridiculously inefficiently (I checked their profile; they've been at it for awhile! guy on the left had 5 wins in S3 already, and the other one was working on his 4th one), I think this is a symptom of the league and, beyond that, the XP system being pretty damn broken in this game at this point. We have Level 395 dudes in fully maxed clubs who spend their time and a truckload of kobans for the Yo-yo between S3 and D1, boys! That's ludicrous... Anyways... S3 Top 4 prize didn't even make up for what I've spent in boosters (no refills though, because I'm not a madman), so this was definitely a failed experiment for me. My D1 looks whatever so far. The likely top dogs aren't even as strong as last week's top dogs in S3, and who knows? They might also aim for demotion so they can grab those juicy 3k kobans in S3 next week... 🤣 As far as my strategy is concerned, I'm seriously reconsidering it, now. Without the arena freebies and with the increased competition from above, boosters are now way too expensive to maintain without a net koban loss for a mere top 30 in D2 as I had been doing (most of the time) for the past few months. So instead of going back to what should be my normal league at this point, I think I might stick around in D1, "enjoying" a measly top 30 reward without having to spend boosters for a while. I have all the champion girls except for Schturpa now, and I'm in no hurry to get her, plus PoA dictates that we should now stash tickets instead of, you know, using them. So... My prospects in league look pretty grim, and utterly boring for the foreseeable future. 😕 It might be time for Kinkoid to check a few of the thousands of games with player XP and league/ladder/season PvP systems, and take a page or two from the Book of PvP 101... Like, you know, make sure players fight other players of a roughly similar strength, and so on. And either cap player level for good, so that someone someday has a hope in hell of catching up to the 2016-2017 veterans who are still around, or rebuild the competitive system with leagues based on player level instead of... nothing, really. Maybe also remove this stupid concept of forcing people to aim for a mediocre score if they want to stay in the league they belong to? Food for thought. Love you all. Stay safe! Good luck, have fun. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E. N. D. Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Charm will become the strongest speciality (maybe in 6 month, maybe in 1year, maybe later...I don't know when), but at this moment I'm agree with @Slynia because a lot of player in league have an attack under 55k. As i said in my previous post it's efficient against strongest players ( better on HC with the harmony boost) but not on the weakest. For the moment ,KH players have an advantage on weak opponents , but they won't stay weak all the time... have a nice day 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Тёмный Властелин Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) This week results: 106 players: 401 - highest level, 233 - lowest, median - 316,85 made 272 battles: 253 - wins, 19 - losses, 43 remaining tokens average points for wins: 18,446 15th place score - 4818; got 17th with 4810 points was boosted for 2 days: 2 epic ginseng + 2 epic cordyceps and 1 epic ginseng + 1 legendary chlorella + 2 epic cordyceps total XP gain - ~64200 First of all - epic ginseng sucks. I personally feel that epic cordyceps is much better. Legendary chlorella is doing very good for me, so from the next week I will completely change ginseng for second chlorella (now I still have 2 of them and will use them this week) or, maybe, third cordyceps. This week I missed tokens for 1,5 days. But! I obtained beggar's clothes for all 6 equipment slots now and did some research again in the end of the league. It is, actually, doable to score less than 18,446 for a win in 5 losing battles. I easily scored 16 points. You end up dealing 0 damage to your high level rivals and get 3 points. And I can tell you that it is hard to get a 16-18 points win. You risk losing and getting 13 points. I did it 8 times this week. And it sucks. So, if you have opponents that are way higher than you in the league and you're aiming for 15-30th place, then you can "safely" challenge them with first level girls and endurance (or harmony) common clothes and secure the lowest amount of points, other than risking too much with 16-18 point wins (score a bit more to be safe than sorry). Good luck in the upcoming week, guys! Edited May 21, 2020 by Тёмный Властелин 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karyia Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 No screenshot, as the reset change now happens during work/lunchtime. Anyway, managed to achieve my goal, top 45 (38th). The extended period actually gave me problems, as I was 48th (and out) for a while but managed to come back and get to 38th. This will be my 3rd D2 and they've been rising in difficulty each time but I'll still have another go and see what I can do. Good luck to everyone 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator govenants Posted May 21, 2020 Moderator Share Posted May 21, 2020 Il y a 6 heures, Slynia a dit : Winning when you think you'll end up 2nd always feels nice. I really needed this win cuz this week all hope is lost as I am tied for the 4th highest player (together with GetOverHere with his 10 D3 wins). Above us is [CNO] Cadmos with 3 D3 wins, and the player who will definitely win this week: govenants with 44 D3 wins. Well, you can't win every week! Hey ! You can win this week C'mon !!! 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Slynia Posted May 21, 2020 Moderator Share Posted May 21, 2020 1 minute ago, govenants said: Hey ! You can win this week C'mon !!! Haha thanks but the only way I can win against you is if you let me win! 😂 You have the 3rd most wins in D3 out of everyone on HH (after Gogeta and Habi) 😅 Anyway, I'll try my best 😘 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zteev Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 18 hours ago, Zteev said: This week will be interesting for sure. It will be the first of many weeks where I won't be awake for reset, so it'll be a strategy of get as high as I can, and hope to not drop below 30th after I go to bed. I doubt I will drop out of the top 45.. My hope was not to be, as I dropped down to 31st. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MICK69 Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 😊 yes I am finally the winner of a D3 league after 5 second place yeahhh 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer_X Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Finally got rid of the 35th place subscription, although only by a bit: ended 32th on Thursday 1:00pm. For a bit I also thought I would have been able to reach the above reward tier, as I was 27th at a few hours from the end, but I was deluded. Sometimes hits me the thought that there is an evil imp that monitors my progress and is ready to pull me down if I am too successful. Bah. Again, my new league is very similar to the previous one, so I am prone to think the results will be also similar. I wasn't still able to evaluate the impact of the new reset time on my performance, although I fear it will be negative. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHarry Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 On 5/21/2020 at 8:34 PM, DvDivXXX said: Well... Last week was a quite a ride, and not in a good way. I ended up barely Top 4 in my S3 league. The one that I assumed I had a good shot at winning... Even though I've reached level 300 during the week, and was boosted and planning my fights meticulously (except that one time I lost 3 sure wins before noticing my boosters had expired ^^ but that wouldn't have changed all that much), well... these guys (and two others who came a bit later to the party but were almost as tough to beat) stole my thunder: I'm not sure which one ended up grabbing the prize, but probably the one on the left (who I caught unboosted as shown above, but still lost to with barely 10 points per fight). The insane thing is that even the #1 prize in S3 is nowhere near enough to even make up for all the kobans he spent on boosters and, more surprisingly, refills. Tons and tons of refills! The guy made partial rushes every other day or so, throughout the week. Even though he was fully boosted (including legendary boosters) every single day (except for that one 6-hour window in which I fought him). Beyond this particular player (and the other few competitors I had for top 4) playing ridiculously inefficiently (I checked their profile; they've been at it for awhile! guy on the left had 5 wins in S3 already, and the other one was working on his 4th one), I think this is a symptom of the league and, beyond that, the XP system being pretty damn broken in this game at this point. We have Level 395 dudes in fully maxed clubs who spend their time and a truckload of kobans for the Yo-yo between S3 and D1, boys! That's ludicrous... Anyways... S3 Top 4 prize didn't even make up for what I've spent in boosters (no refills though, because I'm not a madman), so this was definitely a failed experiment for me. My D1 looks whatever so far. The likely top dogs aren't even as strong as last week's top dogs in S3, and who knows? They might also aim for demotion so they can grab those juicy 3k kobans in S3 next week... 🤣 As far as my strategy is concerned, I'm seriously reconsidering it, now. Without the arena freebies and with the increased competition from above, boosters are now way too expensive to maintain without a net koban loss for a mere top 30 in D2 as I had been doing (most of the time) for the past few months. So instead of going back to what should be my normal league at this point, I think I might stick around in D1, "enjoying" a measly top 30 reward without having to spend boosters for a while. I have all the champion girls except for Schturpa now, and I'm in no hurry to get her, plus PoA dictates that we should now stash tickets instead of, you know, using them. So... My prospects in league look pretty grim, and utterly boring for the foreseeable future. 😕 It might be time for Kinkoid to check a few of the thousands of games with player XP and league/ladder/season PvP systems, and take a page or two from the Book of PvP 101... Like, you know, make sure players fight other players of a roughly similar strength, and so on. And either cap player level for good, so that someone someday has a hope in hell of catching up to the 2016-2017 veterans who are still around, or rebuild the competitive system with leagues based on player level instead of... nothing, really. Maybe also remove this stupid concept of forcing people to aim for a mediocre score if they want to stay in the league they belong to? Food for thought. Love you all. Stay safe! Good luck, have fun. I think the only legit way in the long run is to go d3 and do all your fights, always. The ones going up and down lose a lot of experience. For instance, the one time I did go back to d2 to grab the win there, I beat Hollo from Shal's post above you. Who was at the time charm and a higher lvl than me. Now he's 5 lvls below me judging from his lvl in Shal's screen. I enjoyed the kobans, but I regret both times as with two or 3 more lvls, maybe I could have nabbed a d3 win instead of 2nd places by now. This week looks promising, but normally 1 guy I can't beat. So 2-4 is likely. Unless I mess up. Finished 8th last week. Which was expected. Way too many 430+ people in one table for me 😅 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaa Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, DHarry said: I think the only legit way in the long run is to go d3 and do all your fights, always. The ones going up and down lose a lot of experience. For instance, the one time I did go back to d2 to grab the win there, I beat Hollo from Shal's post above you. Who was at the time charm and a higher lvl than me. Now he's 5 lvls below me judging from his lvl in Shal's screen. I enjoyed the kobans, but I regret both times as with two or 3 more lvls, maybe I could have nabbed a d3 win instead of 2nd places by now. I thnk you overestimate the xp-loss, it's not near 2-3 level for everytime you miss a d3, which should easily obvious when you consider how many level you get in one week (which is not more than 1, if you are 330 or something like that (somebody can do the math)). In my club is someone who has been the whole time in d3 since I am jumping from d2/d3 and he's after 30+ weeks 2-3 lvl ahead of me. I already poined out that you can even get more xp playing d2 than d3 since you get 15-40 more fights every 2nd week, so the difference is even a little less than most people assume But sure, in the long run you gain more xp by staying in d3. But that's not worth it if you can not make at least every 2nd week a top4 place, at least that's how I see it. Edited May 26, 2020 by blaa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator DvDivXXX Posted May 26, 2020 Moderator Share Posted May 26, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, DHarry said: I think the only legit way in the long run is to go d3 and do all your fights, always. The ones going up and down lose a lot of experience. 5 hours ago, blaa said: But sure, in the long run you gain more xp by staying in d3. But that's not worth it if you can not make at least every 2nd week a top4 place, at least that's how I see it. That's the thing. I agree with you both, but that's advice for much higher level players than I currently am. The missing link is how to get from the mid-game to the late-game when the game has built the entire main PvP system upon XP/Levels first and foremost, but XP gains are utterly limited, and Level gaps are basically frozen in time indefinitely (but the PvP system doesn't grow, it only decays, basically, except for players who are already at very high levels). I actually earn tons more XP in D1 this week without any booster whatsoever (so I also don't lose kobans at least, even if I'm looking at a pathetic 924 koban gain at best) than I used to earn in D2 with boosters, let alone what I would get in D3 if I went back up there now. At my level (303 as of this writing, and I'm still in the range where I get a level every +/- 3 days), the ability to win more fights than I lose overall makes a much bigger difference in overall XP gain than getting say 274 XP when I do win instead of say 256 or even 245. D3 would currently give me a vast majority of losses, which means around 50 XP a pop. I really think there's a major design flaw in the current state of XP gain and the League system in this game. It's fine to great for active veteran players (who play well), it's somewhat okay for new players and those who are up to the early mid-game, but at some point you reach a massive wall, and no reliable mechanic is there to even give you a slim chance of going over it. By the time I'm Level 400, if nothing changes by then, this will be the new 300 in terms of ability to compete. Everyone in top 30 of D2 and most players, period, in D3 will be 450 if not 500. Apart from hoping for a massive exodus of the toughest veterans (which isn't actually great for the game), I don't see anything that can turn the tables in my favor, even slowly, unless they actually fix their flawed system. I'm very open to ideas and suggestions, though. Edited May 26, 2020 by DvDivXXX small stuff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeMTO Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 14 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said: By the time I'm Level 400, if nothing changes by then, this will be the new 300 in terms of ability to compete. Everyone in top 30 of D2 and most players, period, in D3 will be 450 if not 500. Apart from hoping for a massive exodus of the toughest veterans (which isn't actually great for the game), I don't see anything that can turn the tables in my favor, even slowly, unless they actually fix their flawed system. Oh, I totally expect us to be beyond 500. The level 400 level cap was raised before 10 people in this server had hit it, Nutaku also similarly low (just not confident enough to say less than 10 overall, but almost certainly less than 15). Since they never made any official comment on it, I just have to expect that same thing will happen again, and we'll have another revision of the exp curve so that the gain per level in daily missions increases even slower. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jelom Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 @DvDivXXX at level 300 you need 3 days to complete a level, a level 400 player need around a week, so you will close levels (but not XP) slowly with the top players, so when you reach level 400, the other player has only reached level 450 (rough example, not calculated). As battle stats are dependent on level, the difference in strength will diminish slowly over time. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator DvDivXXX Posted May 26, 2020 Moderator Share Posted May 26, 2020 (edited) @jelom On paper, sure, you're not wrong, but in terms of power level, the gap will only accelerate. Those who are 400+ now (and good enough players) gain thousands of kobans each week from the League system (one way or another, including those who chose to go way down in divisions where they can easily overpower the entire field, except for their fellow high-level yo-yo players), to the point that they can purchase 4 boosters a day and still have a very comfy net koban gain at the end of the week. That's an exponential power increase. The more you win, the more you win, and... the more you win. Meanwhile, I'm locked out of that virtuous circle, and the distance separating me from the entry point for that is only increasing over time, significantly faster than I can technically "reduce" the level gap on paper (but not the XP gap, let alone the exponential benefits from that XP gap). By the time I'm 400+ (which is probably a year away, I just picked that number as milestone), players who are 400+ now might "only" be 450+ (although some will definitely be 500+, as George pointed out), but they'll have been accumulating even more power all that time, in terms of constant koban gains from the league, the harem growth it gives, and the leeway to use boosters and/or refills without actually losing kobans, but instead still making a profit etc. So they'll still be completely out of my, well league. And there will be more of them spread out across the lower divisions as well, unless Kinkoid adds more divisions above D3 and/or completely rework the league and/or XP-based system. There's just no way around that. This game was primarily designed as a solo semi-idle collection game. They grafted PvP aspects to it later on, but without proper balance or real implementation in the core game mechanics (and based on many hints, I suspect that they're not very well-versed in PvP competitive game systems, which makes sense as it's not what they're typically developing). It would still be somewhat okay if the bulk of how you can advance and gain power by playing the game was still outside of the PvP add-on, but that's unfortunately the exact opposite. You gain more power over time if you're in a position to win big in league regularly than any other way, by far. And you can only win big in league regularly if you happen to have started the game 2-3 years ago (and are a good player). That's my main problem. Edited May 26, 2020 by DvDivXXX typo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_shal_ Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 13 hours ago, blaa said: But sure, in the long run you gain more xp by staying in d3. But that's not worth it if you can not make at least every 2nd week a top4 place, at least that's how I see it. Even for the XP it's not worth it unless you finish at least top 30 in D3. And obviously 70% of the people who compete in D3 don't do that each week. Not to mention that top 30 D2 is not only better than top 45 D3 for the XP, but also for kobans... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E. N. D. Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 (edited) Hello here, When I started the league last thursday, I was little bit disappointed, no real opponents for the top1 (the gap between the first player and the second was 11 levels). Two of the strongest four players played without boosts. I didn't check every day but each time i took a look on them they were unboost. I don't really understand their strategy , maybe top 15 with no boost... ??? Never mind they lost place they could claim... I think that Sygfried94 (KH/ lvl416/1D3 victory) ,juju (CH/lvl419 1D3 victory too) and maxwell (KH/ lvl417/ no d3 victory) could take advantage of this and reach 2 of the top 4 place easyly. We'll see tomorrow ... Good evening everyone Edited May 27, 2020 by E. N. D. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator govenants Posted May 27, 2020 Moderator Share Posted May 27, 2020 and slynia beat me 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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