[ 14-Dec-21 ] Midwinter Preparations PoA - Discussion

[Shaftiel]

4 hours ago, Liliat said:

On the test server, I see 35M on level 140. That's still insanely high, considering a player at that level makes ~3m per day from harem (thanks to the starter girls boost), and barely anything from everywhere else. The other main sources of cash (GP10/Market and Champions) are simply not available to lower-level players (Or barely; I have unlocked 2 Champions there, and they die too quickly to be a stable source of cash)

Holy crap, I'm 110M at level 438 and I know what happened.

THEY SCALED THE COST LINEARLY. In-game income scales exponentially. They might have benchmarked it at 125M for level 500, which is a little high but whatever, but then they scaled it down linearly instead of exponentially so the amounts are totally unachievable by low-level players.

Yo, that's quite an issue to have slipped past.

[Blackeagle]

13 hours ago, holymolly said:

Soo guys.. I´ve done some maths. I wanted to see how long this PoA would actually need to be for it to be doable "for free" (within the event duration), my assumptions:

- you´d start with full bars of everything at reset
- you´d have enough ressources to do the: give xp to girls , sell items and spent money tasks
- contest would alline perfectly and not need any time, just your saved ressources
- you´d spent the free path rewards perfectly
- you wouldn´t miss a single minute between the various task/ your cooldowns/time it needs to fill your bar up
- you´d win all your pvp fights and have enough fights left in your league
- you´d get 3 pvp fights per hour(2 from league and 1 from season I know it´s not right but for the sake of easyness)
- you´d have all of your champs (including the cc available when needed until it´s needed)

(I feel like this is more than a far assumption for KK.. especially when we consider that this PoA gives less rewards than the normal one => no MyP orbs, less kisses and tickets  (fuck the gems) )

Now towards the tasks:
1. spent 150 energy: 50 needed over full bar (7,5min per energy)-> 6,25h

2. 40 PvP wins: 15 more than full bar -> 5h

3. sell items -> no time

4. 50 defeat villians: 30 more than full -10 from free path: 20 additional fights -> 10h

5. spent money -> no time (note: the money needed for lower lvl players is horrendously)

6. 30 champ fights: 5 rotations: 5x15min -> 1,25h

7. sell items -> no time

8. score points in contest -> no time (note: difficult to calculate, depending on the contest this alone can take a full day or  
    even more: todays is no time since it´s give xp and sell items)

9. give xp to girls -> no time

10. 70 champ fights: 10 rotations -> 2,5h

11. spent 300 energy: 180 additional needed :180x7,5min -> 22,5h

12. 80 pvp wins: - 29 another 51 needed, again 3 per hour -> 17h

13. sell items -> no time

14. 100 defeat villians: -30 : another 70 needed -> 35h

15. spent money -> no time

16. 120 champ fights: 18 rotations, 18x 15min -> 4,5h

17. score points in contest -> no time (once again! depends on contest can be very time consuming)

18. 200 villian fights: -35 = 165 needed -> 82,5h

19. give xp to girls -> no time

20. 100 pvp fights: -25 = 75 needed -> 25h
 

Overall: assuming all of my assumptions are met: you have all resources and perfectly time every single minute from the start of the PoA, the time it takes to finish this PoA "for free" with the reards given out during PoA is 211,5hours which is almost 8,8125 days (lets round it up to 9 to adjust for the pvp taks time)... we get 5 days: so in short: this event needs to be extended to 9 days I feel like it´s not asking for much to stick to the normal pathern: PoA is doable for free if you dedicate the time.. however this is a free to play game and it´s advertised this way so please give people just a little bit of hope especially during this time of the year we could and probably a lot have expected the special event to be something positive and not negative! That´s my 2 cents I hope it helps to improve this catastrphe of event design.I hope this gets read by those in charge @Noacc@Tohru - Kinkoid

 

 

sell items -> no time ?!

give xp to girls -> no time ?!

spent money -> no time ?!

sorry but really with the server and when you press too fast it may be that you don't get the points or even worse if the checker protection kicks you and blocks you

by the way, try to sell 200 itesm quickly and stop the time if you don't like being kicked can then tell me whether it worked and how long it took

long talk short meaning i will the event let it pass like so many with all the new acquisitions 

[Liliat]

il y a 10 minutes, Blackeagle a dit :

by the way, try to sell 200 itesm quickly and stop the time if you don't like being kicked can then tell me whether it worked and how long it took

1 minute, give or take. Not worth mentioning for this event when we're talking days for other tasks. It's well below the margin of error. Sleeping will require more time than time.

Even if you consider 5 minutes, it's still negligible. And that's a very slow pace to sell 200 items.

In any case, Hollymolly's point was that even in an ideal world, for someone who plays perfectly, this event is simply impossible to complete without Kobans. So ignoring these values makes perfect sense to demonstrate this.

[Methos2]

11 minutes ago, Blackeagle said:

sorry but really with the server and when you press too fast it may be that you don't get the points or even worse if the checker protection kicks you and blocks you

by the way, try to sell 200 itesm quickly and stop the time if you don't like being kicked can then tell me whether it worked and how long it took

It's all relative. When everything else takes hours, a few minutes are rounded to 0 hr. Don't take it so literally. His post actually agrees with you about the event. Try reading it in its entirety.

[Methos2]

I have devised a plan to clear 20 tiers using my usual OD spending plus some Seasons kisses. I will definitely have to give up next KC. Even if I clear the event on day 5, I still won't open the bonus path. It just doesn't worth the kobans. 1x epic orbs don't seem like what they use to be. And this PoA doesn't even have 6x myth orbs.

[Antimon]

7 ore fa, Blackeagle ha scritto:

sell items -> no time ?!

give xp to girls -> no time ?!

spent money -> no time ?!

sorry but really with the server and when you press too fast it may be that you don't get the points or even worse if the checker protection kicks you and blocks you

by the way, try to sell 200 itesm quickly and stop the time if you don't like being kicked can then tell me whether it worked and how long it took

long talk short meaning i will the event let it pass like so many with all the new acquisitions 

Considering 5 minutes for every and each tasks that hollymolly counted as "no time needed" (which, given the premises, is more than enough) we obtain a total of 45 min of time needed, which isn't exactly no time, true, BUT it corresponds to 0,75 hours, that brings the 211,5 hours/8,8125 days hollymolly estimated to 212,25 hours/8,84375 days.

Considering that, in the end, he rounded up to 9 days of time needed in ideal conditions, I believe we can agree on the fact that it doesn't matter if we consider or not those 5 minutes per task

Edited December 15, 2021 by Antimon

[JustVisitingReborn]

 

It's normal for me to finish the PoA. I have every single month that it's been open to me. Though I've never opened the Bonus path.

This time round, I think I'll stop on Tier 5. 90M Ymen spend. I have the cash - a little short of 3B and tbh, I have a huge amount of 10xGP stashed right now that would likely take me over my starting Ymen at the point of the Ymen nerf. But my problem is that this is just such an insane waste of resources.

Every month, I pick-up the Mythic then wait until the PoA and spend to upgrade the Mythic to pass the spending tasks. To date, upgrading the Mythic has always been more that sufficient to pass all these tasks. Normally, the 6th star is way more than needed for the last spending task and I can usually waste the 5th start in between because the cost for upgrading a Mythic is so high that I've passed the others before using it. This time round the 6th star wouldn't even pass the 1st spending task. And that's not to mention that I haven't had the month to save up all the necessary Aff at this point. Or that even if I did, I wouldn't have a Mythic to upgrade for the normal PoA.

I know that the event isn't specifically structured to be used this way. My point is NOT complaining that this PoA doesn't fit my individual routine. My point is to highlight just how out of line the 'tasks' in this event are.

Setting aside upgrading a Mythic, what am I going to spend that type of cash on? Natural shop refreshes are a drop in the ocean compared to that 90M target. I could use them for the full 5 days and never get close. Level stats upgrades are a bit more of an expense, but come around so infrequently that it's quite possible at my level not to level up at all during this event. Upgrading girls would require more Aff than I could spare, but might be a viable choice for some. Buying items is just burning Ymen. That leaves Pachinko. Better than buying items, but it just seems a chronic waste of Ymen and I'd have to burn a stack of 1xGPs that have been piling up from the Pantheon. No great loss, but burning more resources to burn Ymen doesn't seem particularly efficient. The other alternative is hoping for a straight donation DC. If that came up and I felt I could take home some Koban out of it I might blow 100M to pass this tier.

The point is that this is only Tier 5 and is the SMALLER of the Ymen spending tasks. It doesn't open any fantastic rewards without significant resource investment after this point. I *think* that after the Ymen nerf I'm maybe slighty better off than breaking even on this resource. But I'm not 100% sure of that and that doesn't consider spending for this PoA. And if I am better off, wouldn't I be better waiting for donation DC and trying to take some Koban with my "disposable income"?

This entire event is just demoralising. It doesn't give a sense of achievement or opportunity for smart time/resource management. It's simply setting an unrealistic goal and saying to everyone 'buy your way through'.

I might change my mind about this over the next few days, simply because passing this Tier would likely allow me to pick-up the first girl, but I'm going to feel pretty bad about burning the Ymen in some useless way if I do.....

Edited December 15, 2021 by JustVisitingReborn

[Liliat]

Yeah; the problem of Tier 5 / Tier 15 is not even so much the amount of money it takes (At least for players above lvl 300/350), but the fact that we don't really have ways to spend this cash in a useful way.

I upgraded Finalmecia (From 2* to 5*), as well as a random L3 girl. And it still wasn't enough; so I upgraded 2 girls from L4 to L5. And then I bought items in the market (Aff/XP; I was lucky enough to have to wait only a few minutes until the next free refill). And then I had to buy some player stats. And... I think I was getting close to the required 90M.

And now I know I'll be in trouble to find 85M to spend on the next PoA (Not the cash itself; but valid sources to spend it). I'll probably have the next LC girl (34M), and... Maybe 3-4 levels from PoV/Seasons? (18-24M?) It's gonna be tedious at best 😅

Edited December 15, 2021 by Liliat

[DvDivXXX]

18 hours ago, Erin86 said:

I took some time for myself to think about the game this afternoon. When I saw the event I honestly didn't know what to think, too many events, all unlockable with kobans for bonus rewards.

The thing that bothered me most was the creation of these new events shortly after drastically reducing the league prizes. I'm speculating, "Do you want to do more events to allow players in high league positions to spend the kobans they earn?" Is an excellent idea. "Do you want to make him burn the account of the Kobans they have saved in these 3 years (since the leagues have existed)?" Bad idea.

That there were dynamics to change was evident (personally I appreciate the idea of gems and the ability to take the girls to level 750, it made the league more competitive, at least for a while.) But to force players, even older ones. , to spend to maintain their positions after all that they have earned with the game in f2p I found it a lack of respect. You send the message that the efforts made in recent years are worth nothing.

I say one last thing: I have told my guild members to ignore the PoA (both this one and the next ones) and to focus on the PoV, at least as long as there is xp among the bonus rewards. Do you lose 4 or 8 girls a month? It doesn't matter, if you like it you will find them in a few months in the Mithic Pachinko, otherwise patience, they are useless 3 stars so you will never spend gems to max them even if they had both bonuses for a week.

I'm quoting your whole post because it's already a page back and I feel it didn't get noticed as it deserves (it'll get collapsed by default with the new system anyway so it won't take too much space). I vastly agree with you. However, I also need to inform you about a big mistake you're making on the MP pool.

18 hours ago, Erin86 said:

Do you lose 4 or 8 girls a month? It doesn't matter, if you like it you will find them in a few months in the Mithic Pachinko

No, you won't (unless Kinkoid changes how MP works drastically, and with the current trend of "Exclusive this! Exclusive that! Fear of missing out! Take it or leave it! Give us money!" I'm not hopeful on that).

The Mythic Pachinko pool includes:

• Epic Pachinko (permanent) girls
• Classic event girls
• Legendary Days girls

That's it. It does NOT include:

• Season girls
• Path of Attraction Girls
• Path of Valor Girls
• Legendary Contests Girls
• Mythic Days Girls
• Kinky Cumpetition Girls
• Foreplay/Anniversary Girls (eg Serena and Spectra)
• Promo exclusive Girls (eg Mizuki, Luxurious Body)
• Patreon exclusive Girls
• Adventure Mode & Permanent Villain Girls (Edit: & Great Pachinko 1* Girls)

For all the events in that list, there's currently no way and no signs of hope to ever get a second chance to collect the girls. Mythic Days Revivals were killed. Dating Tokens were killed. Aside from a select few and largely awkwardly implemented exceptions, the very concept of Revival events seems to have been killed (besides Orgy Days, even though all of the girls you get in OD are also in the MP pool). So yeah. We're not likely to get the girls we're forced to let us pass by with the new F2P-hostile pace and pricing of events. "Exclusive! Pay to Play! Don't Miss Out!... Oh, where did they all go? Come back! Exclusive!!! Give us money!"

But it is what it is (for now). So yeah, it hurts me that my favorite event has been turned into a painfully expensive, very hard and far less rewarding chore, and that I'll be missing plenty of PoA girls from now on. But I strongly agree that 2 PoVs are worth way more than even a decent PoA, let alone a terrible one like this. At the very least as long as it will have XP in the bonus path, and I'll be a long grind away from Level 500.
-------------

I'm not sure I'll have time and energy for an extra wall of text. I've given key feedback points to the CMs on the side (as many other mods did, and I'm hopeful on that front at least), and most of the other points have been made cleanly already.

I'll just add this: CASH (YMEN) IS NOW IMBALANCED THE OTHER WAY AROUND. Don't assume this is horrible only for low-level players. It's horrible for any player who already ran out of whatever cash amount they had left from the pre-nerf era.

I'm a Level 445 competitive player with 800+ girls and I'm now broke to a point that this feels like I'm playing Comix Harem again. Especially when I barely manage to keep a hundred millions or so for upkeep and then I see a PoA task that, to me, reads:

"Moo hoo ha ha! You really want at least that sweet Cheer Cynthia, right? Now that you know you're too poor to ever grab the other two, correct? Bwahahaha! Ha! ha! ha!!! Then go find 225.5M in cash! With the -90% return on investment for selling your junk items! Yessss... Moo hoo ha hahha!"

V_v

I am NOT AMUSED.

Edited December 15, 2021 by DvDivXXX
updated

[rebirther]

Dear Kinkoids. Since you do not know how to understand more or less difficult things, I will try to explain it to you in a simpler way. For a cow to produce more milk, it is not enough to milk it more intensively. It should be fed more.

[Erin86]

@DvDivXXX as I wrote:

21 ore fa, Erin86 ha scritto:

patience, they are useless 3 stars so you will never spend gems to max them even if they had both bonuses for a week.

If we can't, we can't. We must do choices. If they change the system good otherwise we need to adapt 😜

[dgxg]

33 minutes ago, Erin86 said:

If we can't, we can't. We must do choices. If they change the system good otherwise we need to adapt 😜

With awakening cap level update - im forced to level my harem all the time, that means to buy whatever books i can from shop - that means i cant save money for this event properly for at least next 2 months (or i have to stop leveling my harem, i will stop in season, only to be able win in leagues)

Secondly champions - i was saving tickets for this event, only taking part in events and daily contest to get decent prices, not trying to win it all - still it left me with 186 tickets - i need 220 for this event i get 15 in one tier (already picked up all from season) - it means no taking part in other events and daily contest.

I'm sorry but if by adapting u mean i have to be reduced to daily idlle-clicker so i can get through with  one event per month it kinda make no sense...

I see no point playing this game if those so called "challenges" remain as they are...

I would understand if they would increase requirements (to force some players to use kobans, or even pay), but this is a joke.

[SoggyShorts]

3 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

CASH (YMEN) IS NOW IMBALANCED THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

I think that this is a symptom of the systematic overcorrection we've seen since I got my feet under me in this game and at least halfway figured things out.  Too many orbs!  Choke them off to near zero because we didn't anticipate that people would clean out the Pachinko pools! That one caused a LOT of players to spew hate.  Since I "grew up" in an environment of abundance, that one hit me hard.  And I hit back, just as hard.

We're giving away too many kobans in Seasons!  Let's nerf every other month! There went that five bucks per month in revenue from me.  Players are getting the CC girls too easily, and they're getting them by cooperating! 3 major nerfs later, sex champs are no longer as viable an income stream and CC participation fell off a cliff as people stopped caring about it entirely.  I pity anyone who's still chasing Any and Shtupra; those last two champs can suck near-limitless tickets.

I believe that the PoA tasks were becoming stale.  I've always treated the PoA's paid tier as elective.  I bought in when I liked the girls and just did the free tier all the way through when I didn't.  I thought that the brief extension of those tasks was a good move since when I paid, I could complete the entire event in a day on hoarded Seasons and Contest rewards.  PoA was pretty nicely balanced, it just needed something elective to engage the well-funded, hoarders, and overachievers a bit longer.  I think that we're seeing another overcorrection.

Along those lines, I fully expect the GP monty haul to stop soon, and that the PoV rewards will either be scaled back or the stages will require far more shards.  I believe this because as a free player, I finally have nearly enough of certain resources (XP and Aff items) to at least function.  There's little on the continuum between scarcity and abundance in this game.  If something seems just about right, that feels accidental rather than being the result of analysis of the game's many, MANY economies.  Changes are reactive, in response to complaints about other changes.  Things that are balanced and working properly are not immune to being skewed in response to something else that's broken.

That kind of instability disincentivizes me (at least) from really pushing toward anything.  I've become entirely opportunistic.  I am now exposed to the real shard drop rates because I no longer buy packages and I use one combativity at a time.  I'm exposed to the real koban economy because I don't buy monthly cards.  I'm not affected by the ymen scarcity yet because I don't donate heavily in contests and rarely acquire girls that are expensive to upgrade anymore.  I'm stuck in a kind of analysis paralysis: I play, but not assertively.  Things that were achievable when I paid no longer are (and in truth, may never have been without paying).  

I'm not completely confident that the PoA will be tuned back to something reasonable as a result of all this vitriol, but I AM confident that we'll ignore it if it doesn't.

[MDuss]

And they reduce the cance to get girls from mythic and epic pachinko too.

 

When Val Red Buttler was in Mythic patchinko, she was the only one I didn't have. So I tried to get her. It worked, I get here but I needed 116 mythic Orbs. So I try the epic Pahinko too. 34 red Orbs and no girl.

 

In the past you were able to get with 20 boss fights 4-5 point for a legendary 5 Star Girl. Now when you are lucky you can get 2-3 Point with 50 boss fights.

And so on.

 

MfG
MDuss

[bolitho76]

At 10th of this month I cleared the Pachinko-Pool with the three Classic-Event-Girls. I needed 45 EpPx1 Orbs. The data collcted in the Forum said, that you need 16-17 EpPx1 Orbs for a girl in average, so I can't confirm at the moment, that the EpP-Chance is changed.

Bad streaks are much easier to recognize, when a Chance is low to get a result like the 6%-7% for EpP.

To MythicPachinko: To me it was since the introduction of the MyPx1 Orbs a Chance around 1% to get a girl with an Orb.

To the bossfights: In Legendary Days I invest 234 Combativity. I got 21 Drops with 41 Shards - results almost in the expected, averrage range.

Have you long term data that show another results? If yes, please share it in the corresponding threads.

[natstar]

You better start rushing the event more if you want to get it done on time seems they are not giving us more time which just shows the people making game changes seem to only be testing stuff out on test server and not playing on the main servers.

Yes, i know some people from kinkoid play the game on the live servers but i am talking about the people actually making the game changes that we have to play threw on the live servers.

[dgxg]

16 minutes ago, natstar said:

You better start rushing the event more if you want to get it done on time seems they are not giving us more time which just shows the people making game changes seem to only be testing stuff out on test server and not playing on the main servers.

I'm sorry but both awaking system and path of valor were introduced far too soon after their arrival on test servers - there was no time for feedback from players.

If they envisoned whole packages of changes, u can't start throwing all those parts, as soon as they are ready without testing the damn thing first on test servers.

From my perspective they done it cause christmass and new year is soon - all companies do that, which always strike me odd - in my book december is the most expensive month in whole year - why not choose month when ppl wallets feel lil bit heavier?

 

[MDuss]

Have you all read the new Boss fight Event system for the next year?

A new event like always.

 

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeIXKAZ3yNhC9yMwwzEmgTlETcGNnE_XO2KkyLkuXWazi_SJg/viewform

 

MfG
MDuss

Edited December 15, 2021 by MDuss

[LukeWarmbath]

It's obvious KK's interpretation of "the season of giving" is to give them all your money... 🙃

[Klordz]

Where exactly am I supposed to spend 200+ mill cash in this game?

[EpicBacon]

34 minutes ago, Klordz said:

Where exactly am I supposed to spend 200+ mill cash in this game?

Actually doing great pachinco isent that bad nowadays, with the better reward structure.
I'll be doing 1x spins tho, since if you have orbs you cannot choose to pay instead of orbs.

[bolitho76]

I had spend the money to get stars of the great bunch of Girls in my Harem with not maxed stars. I couldn't get for Finalmecia so I had some Affection-Items storaged that I used for this.

 

[DvDivXXX]

1 hour ago, Klordz said:

Where exactly am I supposed to spend 200+ mill cash in this game?

Once I find a way to generate 200+ mill in cash out of thin air, I'll know where to burn it for the PoA task (GPx10s after depleting all orbs, and/or upgrading girls). If you already have enough cash left, you can do that.

--------------------

My problem right now is that, just like back when I still played CxH, there's no realistic way to generate a lot of Ymens now. We're supposed to spend hundreds of time more than ever before of that specific currency (not just for this insanely overtuned PoA, but of course for the hundreds of books to level up tons of random girls just to unlock the ability to level up our battle teams to somewhat competitive levels).

So now, in retrospect, the -90% nerf to cash from selling items was not just an over-correction, it was purely unneeded. That part of the game's economy was actually going to fix itself! Earn billions but also spend billions. The problem with that currency was that we earned billions and most things only costed millions.

Also, all the other sources of Ymens are laughably inefficient. Win a Champion fight? Click on a bunch of girls in your Harem? Here, take a few hundred thousands. What are we supposed to do with an income in thousands and expenses in billions?

It's been a long time since I've been this frustrated with this game. Have I emphasized enough how this sudden, extreme and completely artificial Ymen scarcity makes me feel like I felt when I still played Comix Harem? It's the number one reason I gave up on it... And now HH itself feels like it. V_v

[TeeJay]

3 hours ago, Klordz said:

Where exactly am I supposed to spend 200+ mill cash in this game?

Yeah, I'm with you, save 116 million

First I was like, ok, 16 million I can do that. Started buying stuff up, lost tract, went back and looked...

1 hour ago, DvDivXXX said:

Once I find a way to generate 200+ mill in cash out of thin air, I'll know where to burn it for the PoA task (GPx10s after depleting all orbs, and/or upgrading girls). If you already have enough cash left, you can do that.

So, yeah. I can't do GPx10 because, well... *whispers* I save my x10 for special needs, like having enough crap to sell.

So, for a 3 star legendary we can spend 7,020,000 y you'll have to raise 17 girls to 3 starts to achieve. That's still a lot of girl to get through. And, as I've noted in past events, eventually we're going to run out of girls to raise up.

[Gerard Cocks]

This POA christmas present is just ridiculous. 

Does somebody know how to block this POA event from view in game? It annoys me a lot just seeing it.