girl equipment [May 2023 ] Recruit Equipment & Resonance - #RERTest

[jelom]

I usually save my kobans and don't spend them innecesarily, and I don't plan on using a single koban in buying equipment orbs, even if it hurts me somewhat in PvP.

If there isn't a rebalance of the feature adding a lot more free orbs, it is going to be a very long way to get a decent upgraded set except for people willing to spend ludicrous amounts of real money.

[Liliat]

il y a 5 minutes, jelom a dit :

except even for people willing to spend ludicrous amounts of real money.

fixed that for you.

[Horsting]

Definitely a PtW feature, especially during the first months/years until everyone has at least the primary team fully equipped (not to think about having everything upgraded). Made the silver card quite significantly more valuable, for low money spending players.

I do not mind the extra complexity and that it moves the possibility of "finishing" the game (perfect (char + girls) equipment) into eternity (somehow this is one of the points of such games), but if allows paying players to gain too much overpower too quickly, that is frustrating for everyone else.

[ORGASMA]

The results of the poll are saying all... actually...
But I think, Kinkoid will still go on with sensless updates and improvements aggravations...

[Horsting]

I mean following the discussion here, it seems the main criticism is about added complexity, the partly not optimal GUI around it, and the frustration of players who thought they have a near perfect setup suddenly have to start from zero with a new system, which is of course understandable, but not objective.

About the PtW direction: If it really was an aim of Kinkoid to increase income, I wished they were more transparent about it. No one creates, hosts and maintains a game like this just for some thanks and little advertising income. So no one can reasonably criticise them for having attractive paid rewards in the game. And most would/all should understand something like: "The amount of money invested by paying players in endgame has decreased, while power demand and costs for our servers has increased. Without changing something, we would not be able to fairly pay our developers, artists and support team. Hence we felt it is necessary to add a new mechanism to the game which gives endgame players another attractive way to (further improve/play the game and) spend money when most other goals have been achieved."

Of course, no player is happy about it, whether (s)he can afford it or not, but everyone can/should understand that there are costs which need to be covered.

Edited June 3, 2023 by Horsting

[Shorty-er]

3 hours ago, Horsting said:

Of course, no player is happy about it, whether (s)he can afford it or not, but everyone can/should understand that there are costs which need to be covered.

I have no issues with KK not only covering costs but making money as well. I'm contributing to that myself.

I have issues with the game becoming more boring, more tedious, and a bigger time sink all at the same time. This thing didn't make the game more expensive for me, as there is no way I will ever pay a single koban for these rubbish orbs.

[Horsting]

2 hours ago, Shorty-er said:

more boring, more tedious, and a bigger time sink

Why is girl's equipment boring? With the resonance bonuses and leveling I find it quite interesting 🤔. Whether having an additional content to take care of is seen as tedious and a time sync or not is of course very subjective. Some may want a game where they only need to/can spend 5 minutes a day, others find THAT boring. In the end, everyone is free to decide how much time to spend, and the more you spend, the faster you process, and if it only is to catch every girls money directly and tune the team for every PvP enemy individually 😉.

[Attirm]

Well, I stupidly converted all my common and rare gear to upgrade my legendary equipment from my initial girl pachinko orb run. I now realize this was a terrible move, as the drop rate is so low I'm actually going to be relying on a lot of common and rare gear for at least the next few months 😕

Currently, my team is outfitted with the following:

• 4 Legendary items
• 7 Epic items
• 7 Rare items
• 8 Common items
• 16 empty slots that I have nothing to fill

This is a completely new level of stingy. I'm not even able to fill out the equipment slots yet. 

3 hours ago, Horsting said:

Why is girl's equipment boring? With the resonance bonuses and leveling I find it quite interesting 🤔.

How exactly is it interesting? 

At this junction I'm still using mostly common and rare equipment, which don't even have resonance. It's going to be months or years before the equipment is going to be strong enough to be more than an afterthought of a small stat increase.

Even once I am at 42 pieces of legendary/mythic equipment, the resonance combinations are going to be a random mish-mash. At current drop rates, I am literally never going to have complete sets of Class/Element combos. Without complete sets there's really no interesting decision making to be had. I will never be able to fully deck out a weaker character with a perfect resonance combo to make them stronger, but I will likely be able to outfit the strongest character of the week with gear that matches either class or element for resonance. There's no realistic situation where I use anything other than the same top-7 strongest girls that I would have used anyways.

That's not interesting, it's just busy-work to swap equipment every time you want to change out a team member to change your team element to counter something. 

[EpicBacon]

2 hours ago, Attirm said:

Well, I stupidly converted all my common and rare gear to upgrade my legendary equipment from my initial girl pachinko orb run. I now realize this was a terrible move, as the drop rate is so low I'm actually going to be relying on a lot of common and rare gear for at least the next few months 😕

Currently, my team is outfitted with the following:

• 4 Legendary items
• 7 Epic items
• 7 Rare items
• 8 Common items
• 16 empty slots that I have nothing to fill

This is a completely new level of stingy. I'm not even able to fill out the equipment slots yet. 

How exactly is it interesting? 

At this junction I'm still using mostly common and rare equipment, which don't even have resonance. It's going to be months or years before the equipment is going to be strong enough to be more than an afterthought of a small stat increase.

Even once I am at 42 pieces of legendary/mythic equipment, the resonance combinations are going to be a random mish-mash. At current drop rates, I am literally never going to have complete sets of Class/Element combos. Without complete sets there's really no interesting decision making to be had. I will never be able to fully deck out a weaker character with a perfect resonance combo to make them stronger, but I will likely be able to outfit the strongest character of the week with gear that matches either class or element for resonance. There's no realistic situation where I use anything other than the same top-7 strongest girls that I would have used anyways.

That's not interesting, it's just busy-work to swap equipment every time you want to change out a team member to change your team element to counter something. 

Its very strange to have a item upgrade system, but you are actively nerfing yourself if you participate in it.
And even if you have spare items and are in a position where you can upgrade something, since blessing changes each week, if the blessings do not work out, you are not getting all the benefits from the item you upgrade.
This results in you needing more items upgraded, and then we are back to a lack of base items to use for upgrades.

When you have a system with 5 different rarities, and it turns out that the best value for money idea is to get commons to max level instead of the higher tiers, that just seems strange to me. Clearly the numbers will need some tweaking from KK's side, but then again, can you really do that now?, since some people have probably thrown cashmoney into this system. And you don't want to anger your remaining paying customers.

I currently have 41/42 items, with some extra common items; and that is probably how its going to stay for a while.
I am going to take the advice that someone else posted earlier, to basically treat mythic girl equipment as cosmetics for now, take the small bonus and leave it as that.
 

Edited June 4, 2023 by EpicBacon
Formatting

[Liliat]

Il y a 8 heures, Horsting a dit :

Why is girl's equipment boring? With the resonance bonuses and leveling I find it quite interesting

How exactly is it interesting? You barely get anything (fragment of a % bonus), have to spend tedious hours going back and forth between the harem and the girl page to find matching resonances (spending 10 seconds on a loading screen at each step), and the system itself is 300% random. What about it is interesting?

[bolitho76]

10 hours ago, Horsting said:

Why is girl's equipment boring?

Let's take a look how to manage before and after implementing girls-equip:

Before:

In the 6h before Blessing change you rework a team to the strongest girls from next week and make them the active team in League. Time: without script and zoopokemon's blessings data spreadshirt ca. 5 min, a little bit less with. After Blessings change you can easy rework the elemental teams to counter your opponents. Time: Here and there 1 minute.

Sometimes in the week: rework a team to counter an unexpected elemental team in the League (not needed after you have at least 10 possible teams, what means Gold Card) Needed time: here and there a minute

After:

In the 6h before Blessing change you rework a team to the strongest girls from next week, make them the active team, go to harem, unequip all girls to have all girls-equip avalaible, search for the girls in your team, equip them, and because you have to equip the girls individual you have to do it manually to avoid using an item at a girl what will be at another girl in the same team or another teab much better. (Example: A Mythic Item with 2 times fitting resonanz at the girl you choose first, but at the 5th girl in the team it will have full conformity). Time I had to use at Test server (where I have much less girls than at main, but much more girl-equip): ca. 45-60 min

After Blessing change and start of CbC use your Equip-Orbs and than check if you got better equip for the active team, equip if necessary, rework the other elemental teams and equip the girls who have not equip yet, upgrade the girls-equip if you have enough rare/common equip or to much epic. Time: another 45-60min.

Sometimes in the week: rework a team to counter an unexpected elemental, if you had this team elemental before search for the girls who have the equipment on and choose them for the team, if not, equipt the not-equiped girls. At least 5 Minutes every time needed, more with increasing amount of lvl700+ 5/6* girls.

At my Main I have ca. 150 girls lvl700+ and there are some 5/6* girls that will gain to this goal in a not to far future. We have an increasing pool of 5/6* girls and so it will be more complicated from month to month to find a specific girl.

That's a boring waste of time: ca. 2h per week for most of the work and than you have mostly nothing to do without searching the "damn green elemental girl that you gave the equip and which you now need to find in this mess of Harem to build this counter team". An interesting feature should add every day a little bit time to spend more in the game, not at one day, where you're allways busy, and the rest of the week the feature is only background stuff with no need to do something with it.

 

 

[DvDivXXX]

10 hours ago, Horsting said:

Some may want a game where they only need to/can spend 5 minutes a day, others find THAT boring.

At this point, I feel it's necessary to point out that you have barely started playing the game a month ago, by your own admission. Some of us (well out of the fewer and fewer veterans who stuck around to this day) have been here for 4 or 5 years. Changing the game radically after we've been playing it daily and/or throwing money at it for literal years doesn't even begin to compare with your own perspective, which is closer to trying out a brand-new game.

This is a casual, semi-idle collection game at its core. It started out this way in late 2016(!). There were glaring balance issues from day one once PvP was introduced (sometime in 2017-18, IIRC) and the game became more complicated, more time-consuming and more many other things that don't match the original premise over the years. With a very long and varied history and quite a lot of massively different phases or ages within. For the past year and a half or so, we've entered the P2W era, along with the sole remaining founder's (who isn't and has never been a player of this game himself, it should be crucially noted) "vision" of awkwardly but surely turning this casual semi-idle collection game with PvP into an actual "RPG".

This feature was dumped on us in this context. After and despite being "proposed" among plenty of different features in multiple surveys and raising a very strong and consistent backlash from this community at every step. And now that it's been dumped on us anyway, the latest bit of a salt rubbed in the wound has been the latest survey which was more of a PR move from Kinkoid, posing as if they were asking us what to change to make this feature more tolerable for us now that our previous waves of negative feedback on it have largely been ignored...

You had to be there. As fun as imagining features and trying to figure out the theory might be for you, it's by no means the same thing as playing the game for multiple years in a row. You're not invested in this as most of us are. Please bear this in mind. Thanks.

[Horsting]

 I agree with the UI aspects which make it nasty to quickly get an overview and switch girls' equipment. HH++ and Harem++ are very helpful in this regards, and some of their features should definitely be added to the original UI.

Also I agree with criticism about P2W development, I mean who seriously finds it great needing to pay more to stay at the top or watch paying opponents moving ahead in leagues and contests... This is especially bad for early players when the game was more F2P friendly and develops into P2W direction. Not nice to discourage players who decided investing time into the game by developing it into a direction where those would not decide to start with the game anymore. Basically it would be great to have more free sources for EqP orbs, also to make levelling those possible/attractive earlier.

Then there are two other aspects, which I can understand very well, though they are subjective and do no objectively say whether the game/feature develops/is good or not:

1. The features definitely makes optimisation to blessings and individual league challenges more time consuming and adds non-trivial decisions. This may be annoying for those who are used to invest less time, but may be positive for those which are looking for more depth and variations. To describe this as "boring" IMO is wrong/unfair wording. I mean define "boring" and "interesting" in this regards: Isn't it boring to just hit the same button every few hours to get the same moreless predictable rewards to invest the same way based on very simple decisions? I find it more interesting to not know for sure whether it is better to level these girls' equipment or equipping more girls with level 1 items for now, whether I will have a perfect match for the mythic pieces soon or not, compared to the simple decisions to max out the dark or blue 5 star legendary girl and level the mythic character item with matching class power + rainbow defence bonus. Yey I have such helmet, maxed already, was exciting to get it and level it quickly, but calling that "interesting"? "Trivial", some may say "boring", running GP for material over and over when a matching contest happened and farm money for get it to 20.
2. Same as with the P2W, for early players which decided for the game once as a low pastime invest without the need to rack one's brain often, it is of course annoying when complexity increases this significantly. I mean no one is forced to invest the additional time to level and adjust everything as optimal as possible. One could also accept the fact that it could be better but just level things on a daily mood for "some" benefit and skip swapping equip for every counter team challenge (I never did this so far, but spread all items as level 1 across all girls from any team, with highest rarity on main team, of course). But for sure everyone has a certain level of ambition when playing such game, causing the annoyance 😉.
   But from developers and Kinkoids view, I am wondering how to do different (just the complexity aspect, not the P2W/GUI aspects). Not adding new features at all would mean that earlier or later all early players are "done" and have no reason to further play. I guess most of you would not have much left to do if there was no mythic character equipment, and I guess now you have moreless optimal maxed mythics on all slots already. Adding more events instead? I find it already more than crowded, with double/triple overlapping events, above common daily contests, goals and missions, then champions etc. There needs to be a balance between ways to gain currencies, ways to spend currencies and ways to see the result of those spent currencies. Just developing the main adventure/story further, adding more and more girls which pop up in the same events over and over? That also gets boring after a while, and the adventure is a too small aspect of the game for this, without much interactive or variable elements, at least until Hamelin Town where I just reached. Would be actually an idea to add more creative elements to the adventure 🤔.

3 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

You had to be there.

I totally agree with you and fore sure some future chance will annoy me. It is basically a natural certainty when playing a developing (the opposite would be dying) game 😉.

I just think the criticism I read through in this topic in average could have been more objective and productive. The questions at the top do not help in this regards either, as they leave no way to express actual critical arguments or discuss individual aspects, if this was even the goal. "Fuck Off Kinkoid", what exactly should developers/maintainers take form this? Of course also Kinkoid did not transparently communicate their reasons either, ignoring so much negative feedback, whether objectively and productively communicated or not.

[Shorty-er]

14 hours ago, Horsting said:

Why is girl's equipment boring?

Others have said plenty to answer this question, I'll just add this: Number-crunching capable players here have predicted that it's unlikely that girl gear will ever change your selection of top 7 girls for a team. So we all spend hours, each, equipping gear, only so that we add a little buff that's more or less the same as the other players do. Keep in mind that the differences between different rarity is limited.

So all this time, to in effect end up right where we were, and even for whales(*) to get a very limited advantage..., yeah, that, to me, is boring as fuck. It's OK if you feel different, I'm happy for you.

(*) I'm not a whale, and don't know how much $ an average whale drops. But I can't imagine people dropping a lot of $ on something with this low of a drop rate for useful items.

[Horsting]

34 minutes ago, Shorty-er said:

So we all spend hours, each, equipping gear, only so that we add a little buff that's more or less the same as the other players do. Keep in mind that the differences between different rarity is limited.

How is this more boring than levelling mythic character equipment and girls to get a buff that's more or less the same as the other players do? Girl's equipment adds a lot more variability, so it increases the ways you can do different than other players. Yes the effect is not game changing, but if it was, the criticism would be likely much more, as it would have been a larger step to P2W then. Pretty much a balance act to make such feature have an effect large enough for players to take care of, but not too large to piss everyone (completely) off who does not want to/cannot invest money for it.

And actually in my case, the effect of the equipment is large enough to have two girls in the main team which wouldn't be there otherwise. The difference is overall small, but I have some more charm items than top 7 charm girls, with 2 charm mythic items (I didn't invest kobans, I was lucky) + some charm epics 2 charm girls were liftet a hundred points over otherwise stronger ones + overall stronger with the resonance bonuses. Was some calculating, back and forth swapping and HH++ league/seasons E[W] watching to be certain, and it will change tomorrow with new blessings. Also my girls are capped at 550, so at 750 (+ all other character level/eq higher) the difference would be relatively smaller. But on the other hand, those items are all still level 1.

Edited June 4, 2023 by Horsting

[Shorty-er]

1 hour ago, Horsting said:

How is this more boring than levelling mythic character equipment

Probably the wrong thing to compare to, there was plenty opposition to that as well as I recall. It also doesn't help that KK can't be bothered to fix the bugs in that feature before dropping the next big (buggy) thing. Aside from that: Mythic gear doesn't take an hour or 2 every week. It's something I'm slowly developing. Sometimes a piece drops and I go "Hey, look at that! That's an upgrade! Cool" and move on.

Let's just agree to disagree, we clearly see things differently. And that's fine too.

[Methos2]

13 hours ago, Horsting said:

Not adding new features at all would mean that earlier or later all early players are "done" and have no reason to further play. I guess most of you would not have much left to do if there was no mythic character equipment

I think you are missing the biggest criticism about this feature. This game is requiring more and more time from players to stay the same pace. There are too many events and we didn't come here for a RPG. Even those of us who has been playing for years  are far from nothing left to do.

Awakening, resonance, and recruit equipment are not rocket science. They are fairly easy to understand. Anyone can optimize them to their advantages but not everyone has the time to do so. I don't find these features to be enjoyable, They are just chores. This game wasn't designed to be a RPG. Forcing it now is unnatural. It will never be a good RPG. They are also losing their audience who didn't come for a RPG but for a story teller. Their strength is in their art and story, not game design.

[DvDivXXX]

@Horsting Sigh. You just don't (and won't) get it, huh? Alright, I'll make it simpler and clearer for you (and with my mod hat ON, to be very clear):

Please STOP derailing this thread (and others) with your increasingly repetitive, blissfully ignorant, and more and more blatantly off-topic walls of text. Friendly WARNING.

Your "I haven't watched the first 50 seasons, but I've read a couple of reviews and summaries online, and I'm almost done watching the Pilot for Season 51 with my own eyes, so let's go play the devil's advocate in the deepest and most controversial discussions I can find on the official forums" character started out kind of cute. That stopped a few dozen posts ago, though.

You're decently smart, sure. The community in general and this forum's wisest and most invested regulars are not exactly dumb compared to you, though. Let alone to the point that you seem to presumptuously assume where your superior intellect would make up for your blissful ignorance and your seemingly random hot takes on stuff we know, understand and have experienced much longer and better than you would be enlightening for us or, past a certain point, even tolerable.

I'll put my own personal opinion (not a part of my mod message, but me sharing my thought process and my emotional journey through your posts that lead to it, if you and/or others are curious). Cheers.

-----------

Spoiler

Especially not on painful and emotionally-charged discussions we were in the middle of having before you've noticed the game's existence a minute ago. Let alone discussions like this one that have a lot more to do with our knowledge and experience of not just the game itself and its evolution over the years (although this too, duh!), but also the people behind the game and many personal and emotionally-scarring (mostly indirect, but for quite a few of us, also very direct) interactions we've had with them, on this and many other occasions, that you're simply not aware of and wouldn't have anything relevant to add to even if you outsmarted us all one percent as much as you sound like you think.

Chill the fuck out. Take a few dozen steps back, and try approaching this community in a more appropriate manner for where you're at in this game. We're not interested in how many different ways you can look at the surface of things we've known in depth for years. And we're especially not interested in your candid approach to what should have been obvious enough to you from the start is not so much a discussion about how this feature works or how it was technically implemented, but about how little Kinkoid seems to give a fuck about this game and its player base, despite their awkward claims to the contrary.

We're the player base and we're hurt. We don't need Noobie the Noob telling us to stop crying and look at this turd in a more constructive manner (for those of us who haven't rage quit yet, and many prominent community members have already, not just over this but over many bad turns this game's direction took over the past few years). You're missing the basic point of this thread. We're not discussing the turd itself as much as we're discussing the series of dick moves Kinkoid made before, during and after dumping it on our faces, despite our resounding "nope" when they pretended to give us a choice in the matter. And no, as a new player who hasn't experienced this, you have nothing terribly relevant to add to that. Giving us your Bambi eyes rose-tinted glasses look on this and other features once or twice, fine. Insisting this much and for this long, though? Fuck no.

 

[garadron]

15 hours ago, Horsting said:

 I just think the criticism I read through in this topic in average could have been more objective and productive.

The criticism was very simple imo, it was a pretty solid message of "DON'T" from the majority of people both here and on Discord. We as players don't have to give super detailed analysis to the developers why the feature will harm the game. It's their job. They received our negative feedback asking them to scrap this feature, "listened" to our feedback, and their response was, believe it or not, that the same system works in other RPG games

WELL, FUCK ME, if we're playing an RPG, I can't wait to make meaningful decisions in the story!

Also kindly enlighten me, where is the RPG tag here?

I joke, kinda. These are Kinkoid own tags they presented to Nutaku for publishing I'm pretty sure. So calling HH an RPG now shows one thing - they're developing a different game. But instead of actually creating a new game and leaving HH to its core casual and fun self (which they're probably afraid to do after Clicker? and decided that the only thing they know is how to make more clones of HH and randomly copy mechanics from other games, zero innovation?) they just decided to Frankenstein HH with parts belonging to different genres because it's... I don't know... safer?

And one thing that for some reason has to be said on the internet over and over again - we are complaining about changes breaking the game flow of HH because we like the game and want to play it. We don't want it to get worse and worse with pointless additions of mechanics that don't belong in its original genre. We don't want to play a different genre while playing HH, we've been playing HH for years to play an idle, casual game.

[Kissmydick]

i understand there are players more active and more strategic than me but I only change my team once a week when the blessings change so its easy to switch the girl gear then

[Horsting]

@Shorty-er@Methos2@DvDivXXX@garadron

I'm sorry for overdoing it with my outsider/noob and RPG fan view. I didn't want to offend anyone. And you are right: The first page of this thread discusses the main criticism point about the significant move in RPG direction very clearly.

While we do not share the same opinion about more RPG features, we do agree that it would be good (in their own interest) if KK did not only inform players about decided major changes, like "Here is a new feature which changes the nature of the game quite significantly. Tell us how much you will won't like it.", but discussed such development directions with the community beforehand, especially respecting the opinion of those players who have remained loyal to the game for years, keeping it alive and making up the base of this active community.

🤐

[Dudegrey]

On 6/4/2023 at 10:38 PM, Methos2 said:

I think you are missing the biggest criticism about this feature. This game is requiring more and more time from players to stay the same pace. There are too many events and we didn't come here for a RPG. Even those of us who has been playing for years  are far from nothing left to do.

Awakening, resonance, and recruit equipment are not rocket science. They are fairly easy to understand. Anyone can optimize them to their advantages but not everyone has the time to do so. I don't find these features to be enjoyable, They are just chores. This game wasn't designed to be a RPG. Forcing it now is unnatural. It will never be a good RPG. They are also losing their audience who didn't come for a RPG but for a story teller. Their strength is in their art and story, not game design.

Remember when they were doing art updates stopped after one world and an early game girl or two?

Current art direction is nice, but it is a jarring experience looking back at the redone World 1 and then hella worlds with a much rougher appearance until the last five.

I don't know what anyone just starting in the present would be thinking, but it probably wouldn't that the art is a big selling point never mind once they uncover the layers of micromanagement for essentially a gacha game.

[bolitho76]

At this moment at test-server:

 

Changes at Pachinko: New kinds of Equip-Pachinko spins and it seems we get a free spin here too.

Also nice: the single spin is now "only" Ymen! Sadly a single spin now is limited to epic equip as max. the PEqx2 can give you all raritys and the x10 guarantee a Legendary one.

Daily goals 3rd chest: x2 Orb; PoV/PoG/Season/SBR show the x1 Orbs, but can be because I claimed the Orbs earlier so that there are changes shown in the future.

 

Edited July 18, 2023 by bolitho76

[430i]

20 minutes ago, bolitho76 said:

lso nice: the single spin is now "only" Ymen! Sadly a single spin now is limited to epic equip as max.

Interesting. Essentially this fucks over the people who went with the update-common-gear-first route, as it makes upgrading equipment exclusively a ymen problem. All in all a good change (and bridges the gap between f2p and the p2w people)

[bolitho76]

Not sure if this really bridges. Only if they change most of the PEquip Orbs we can get now from the different sources to x2 Orbs at least. If they only change the Daily chest, gaining Legendary/Mythic GEquip will be a very hard and expensiv task for f2p player.