[ August 2nd, 2023 ] Girl Skills 💡

[Yamiray]

2 hours ago, Antimon said:

For Mythic girls: Tier I ? points; Tier II ? points; Tier III ? points; Tier IV ? points

I can confirm Mythic is Tier I 6 points; Tier II 10 points; Tier III 5 points; Tier IV ? points

[Ravi-Sama]

I've learned to just wait until the patch notes, and when it's introduced, to dive into a new feature, since things might change, and it takes a lot of energy to "Sherlock Holmes" it just from looking at the test server.

Regarding the difficulty in deciding which girls to upgrade skills.  My method would be checking my inventory of skill points or bulbs, then filtering to a rarity if I had enough, then checking to see if a 5-6 star girl is relevant in the current, or next league week, based on blessings.  That's my initial instinct anyway.

[Antimon]

1 hour ago, Ravi-Sama said:

I've learned to just wait until the patch notes, and when it's introduced, to dive into a new feature, since things might change, and it takes a lot of energy to "Sherlock Holmes" it just from looking at the test server.

The point of releasing something in the test server, other than testing if it breaks the game or not, should be to gather feedback from the playerbase, though, in order to see if what you, the developer, thought would a be an awesome idea isn't instead a new layer of hell something that requires some tweaks 

Ravi edit: I'm not a developer.  I'm a player, like you.

1 hour ago, Ravi-Sama said:

Regarding the difficulty in deciding which girls to upgrade skills.  My method would be checking my inventory of skill points or bulbs, then filtering to a rarity if I had enough, then checking to see if a 5-6 star girl is relevant in the current, or next league week, based on blessings.  That's my initial instinct anyway.

As it happened with girls gear, I believe that your vision here on this matter is a little too simplistic and optimistic, but I could be wrong, and yes, as you said, things might change. I sure hope they will.

Ravi edit: girl's gear is simple.  The changes made to it were valid, but most of them were done after it was added to the main game.  The test server isn't really used like a test server.  It never was.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Ravi-Sama

[OmerB]

3 hours ago, Antimon said:

And the next new feature is not the labyrinth, it is not Hero skills tree, but it is Girls' skill tree, folks!

 

I currently do not have a single girl in my test server account that has a Tier V skill set. It could be a Mythic girls exclusive   or something they still did not implemented (Thanks to @Lumpi46 for confirming that currently on the test server not even mythic girls do have tier V skills)

In regard of the maximum points per tier needed to unlock the higher tier(s), I can currently only tell you the limits for the first three (based on the reported requirement for each tier, the fourth tier is a still a mystery) for common/rare/epic/legendary girls, that are:

- For Common girls: Tier I 6 points; Tier II 6 points; Tier III 3 points; Tier IV ? points
- For Rare girls: Tier I 6 points; Tier II 7 points; Tier III 3 points; Tier IV ? points
- For Epic girls: Tier I 6 points; Tier II 8 points; Tier III 4 points; Tier IV ? points
- For Legendary girls: Tier I 6 points; Tier II 9 points; Tier III 4 points; Tier IV ? points
- For Mythic girls: Tier I 6 points; Tier II 10 points; Tier III 5 points; Tier IV ? points

I got what tiers are, but what are the points?

Ravi edit: it's the bulbs.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Ravi-Sama

[Master-17]

37 minutes ago, Antimon said:

The point of releasing something in the test server, other than testing if it breaks the game or not, should be to gather feedback from the playerbase, though, in order to see if what you, the developer, thought would a be an awesome idea isn't instead a new layer of hell something that requires some tweaks 

If that were the case from the point of view of the KK-team, then we would never have seen GGE. 

[Horsting]

2 hours ago, Ravi-Sama said:

I've learned to just wait until the patch notes, and when it's introduced, to dive into a new feature, since things might change

Actually my impression (the relatively short time since I am playing this game) was that changes on test server came pretty exactly that way to live server as well, regardless how feedback was. What exact larger changes were done to girls gear, shop v2 or player level cap between test server and live server? I do not consider the recent changes to the EqP here, since this came a month later and did not change the actual mechanic of the girls gear.

Ravi edit: you can read that thread if you're curious.

On 6/1/2023 at 7:54 PM, Ravi-Sama said:

Here's the full "recruit equipment improvement survey" for future reference.  It's similar to my forum poll, lol.

Like y'all, I would've checked more boxes.  It's weird there's just 2 selectable options. 

Also weird that there's a "none of the above" option.

I figure all of this will get done, and they just want to see which changes to prioritize first.

Some of it's already fixed via a script, like the pose being visible (one of @Fiel's complaints), and I just noticed the green highlights.  But even if the script has it already, it should still be updated in the actual game, so that the majority of players benefit, not just the clever ones, that are aware of a script.  The green highlights are sick btw, I love it.  Assuming @zoopokemon added that.

 

A few suggestions absent, that I remember:

• Buy/Sell RE in the market, for ymens.  At least the common ones.  The common ones obv. aren't worth 90 kos.  We need more fodder.  Even if you just wanna level up the fodder, lol.  Like my goal of 42 lvl 10 commons.
• Equip teams from the league/seasons team selection page w/ 1-click.  (@jelom's suggestion)
• Ask @Liliat for UI advice.  He already designed a nice display w/ bonuses, for a team's RE.
• Set the default sorting to descending resonance, and fix the arrows that both point down.
• Add more sources of QP orbs, like dropping from certain villains (maybe tier 3), every daily goal chest, an actual free orb each day (like the MP/GP/test server).
• Increase the drops from a QP orb from 1 to 3.
• Remove regular hero gear (except mythic gear).  I like the mythic hero gear drops.  It's already twice as good as the MP's 1% drop rate.  Legendary hero gear is already guaranteed w/ a single GPx10 orb.  It's not worth 90 kos.
• Highlight gear or stats in green that match or boost resonance.  (Already in a script).
• Sort girls in teams by highest stats in the harem filters. (@Master-17's request)
• Increase the value of a QP orb (1620) for casino contests.  It's currently worth less than an MPx1 (2700).  (@Der DinX's observation)

On 7/19/2023 at 8:29 AM, Horsting said:

Very nice changes, all of them IMO.

The added favourite position when equipping girls is good, but IMO still best is the way HH++ BDSM does it: Add resonance icons to the gear itself and highlight the ones which match the current girl. This works even better for me than Harem++, where I was also missing some prominent resonance match indicator.

As far as I can see, all previous EqP rewards have been upgraded to EqPx2. The EqPx1 orb is quite expensive (from my level 320 POV), too expensive IMO to be relevant as long as one still has to max out market stats and/or mythic (hero) gear, but for endgame I guess it is more attractive, also as a better Ymen sink for PoA compared to GPx1?

What I am still wondering is why EqPx2 (and previously EqP) is giving more points in orbs PoV than MPx1, even that it is cheaper 🤔. Inconsistent but irrelevant for gameplay.

And yeah, while test server feedback seems to be irrelevant, I still have hope that it may be taken serious at some time, may lead to a related change and second iteration on the test server, before things get merged live too careless, unbalanced and with too many bugs (like girls gear and player level cap changes both were). When a feature has been developed that far, of course one cannot assume that it gets cancelled because of negative feedback. That would be a waste of developer time/efforts as well. If it was about whether or not a feature is added, feedback about the idea and concept needs to be taken before the actual development starts. So that is not what a test server is/should be about.

Btw, as alternative to the bulbs for the new girls skills, on test sever, daily missions now give some Ymen. It is 3 rewards overall now: XP, Ymen or bulbs, gems/tickets/EPx1.

It was about 100k Ymen for the common ones at player level 183. I guess it scales with level just like XP. Sadly I just really recognised it when only the last mission was to claim, so not sure whether there are other alternative rewards.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Ravi-Sama

[Pelinor]

For all the changes, it doesn't matter one twit. Ultimately, you still see the identical girls in the strongest PvP teams. In contrast, feature developments that could add to the RPG aspects of the game (Market, boss tiers with new girls and rewards, Harem houses, Champion tournament competitions, Club enhancements, etc.) are ignored. Hero skills got negative feedback, so KK reasons Girl skills are what we wanted, and that's what we will get. I'll deal with it when they arrive, and as with Girls' equipment and potions, I'll spend zero RL cash on the feature.

[Antimon]

@Ravi-SamaGirls' gear is a very simple concept and the changes they made to the pachinko a month later they introduced the feature in the live server were definetely valid. Properly managing higher rarities gears with resonance bonus is still quite bothersome.

The same goes for this girls' skills feature. It does not require to be a rocket scientist to understand which skill nodes are better to prioritize in every single tier, and given the fact that the Tier III skills are based on those same traits involved in weekly blessings (minus rarity and element), choosing which girls you should redirect your lightbulbs to at the start of the week won't be that difficult, most of the times. The point is, again, that properly setting your team at the start of the week is taking and will take longer and longer (and it can become even more "entertaining" if you change your team according to your opponents teams' theme, just like with girls gears). 

About the test server, of course once the feature drops there it is mandatory it'll land in the live server for all the reasons you wrote in Horsting's last comment, and it would only be naïve of us to ask otherwise. Feedbacks should be taken before the development starts, true, BUT I am quite convinced that it would have been so much better, if only they had introduced the feature on test server and had it properly tested there, gathering feedback on how the GG pachinko was horrible as they intially programmed it to function, and only after tweaking it to the state in which it is today, having the feature launched in the live server, too. I do not think this is a crazy standing of mine.

The fact they never used the test server as they should have done is not a valid excuse.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Antimon

[Horsting]

2 hours ago, Horsting said:

I do not consider the recent changes to the EqP here, since this came a month later and did not change the actual mechanic of the girls gear.

Ravi edit: you can read that thread if you're curious.

@Ravi-Sama Read again my sentence above your edit: What I mean is that no (visible/significant) changes were done to any of the 3 large new features introduces since I play this game, from when they appeared on test server the first time until they were first merged into live servers for the first time. This is what would be relevant when saying that one should not dive too deep into new features as long as they are on test servers only. If fixes and balancing is done a month later on live servers, that is good, but we need to life and play with it for one month the way it was on test servers then. Basically, what test servers or beta phases are usually meant for, is done on live servers here, which is, well ... free to decide by KK, but not exactly best practice for developing a game or anything else 😄.

... now reading @Antimon's post, so jep, fully agreeing on the point that if there are no surveys done (or ignored) on new features, before they are developed land on test server, at least the test server should be used to gather serious feedback about enhancements, GUI glitches, balancing, bugs, etc, instead of using (only) the first month on live server for this.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Horsting

[DvDivXXX]

6 hours ago, Fiel said:

I just call it "cancer" for convenience sake.

Please don't. That's a major trigger for me (suicide and rape would probably be the other big ones, as far as very very serious and sad real things that for some reason became commonly used as casual hyperbole for "unpleasant" in some gaming communities). 🙏

Garbage, trash, a cash grab, a steaming pile of shit, a fucking joke... There are plenty of terms to express how we feel about this nth upcoming dick move in the wrong direction without evoking terrible traumatic real-life things for anyone involved.

And this is indeed the rotten cherry on top of the shit cake that is Rosso's "vision" for "HH, the RPG". I'm nowhere near done swallowing the pill of Girl Gear, even though the recent GG pachinko update made the thing slightly less painful. I was really hoping it was a joke when they started mentioning "Girl Skills" behind the scenes last week. I was too optimistic, apparently... 🚬

Looks like we're going to get every last bloated feature most of us downvoted in the big Next Features surveys before Kinkoid even starts working on the few good ideas that were actually welcomed by the community in there (Hero's Journey, Labyrinth)... So I guess Guild Club Wars is up next.

[zoopokemon]

Note that I won't be updating HH++ BDSM's sim for girl skills and I'll also be abandoning the booster detector script. I'm sick of this shit, and just hope I find the strength to fully quit this godforsaken game.

[Antimon]

14 ore fa, Antimon ha scritto:

Ravi edit: I'm not a developer.  I'm a player, like you

With "you, the developer" I did not meant "you, @Ravi-Sama, the developer", but "you, the developer".

Also, may I say that it is all fun and games when you use your mod powers to add memes and jokes to other users posts, and it is obviously just the right thing when you use them to modify posts that need to be moderated, but when you use them instead of answering with a comment it makes kind of confusing having a proper serious conversation?

We do not even get notified when you modify our comments the first time, let alone when you go back and modify them once more. 

Edited July 25, 2023 by Antimon

[EpicBacon]

[Redbeard]

I actually would not mind girl skills if they were put on top of the of shit sandwiches of the last updates.  They are also adding these features that work in other games because they don't have 2,000 girls.  Skills in general work when you have a small number of characters to level.   In this case you have a min of all the Mythics and a good portion of LD's.  Not quite as fun.  The concept in general is fine.  With this game how it is not so much.

[Gotaku]

All these fun new features have been made possible by the people who continue to suck up to KK instead of demanding a normal player experience.

[EpicBacon]

There is this term called "Carrot and stick"
Its a method used to induce desired behavior; the carrot as reward, and stick as punishment.

Well... we've been given a lot of stick lately.
Infact the only carrot we've been getting in a while is the one that pops up when hh is loading,
and most people do not want that one.

[Pelinor]

54 minutes ago, EpicBacon said:

Infact the only carrot we've been getting in a while is the one that pops up when hh is loading,
and most people do not want that one.

Hmmm... Do you forget the cross-promo banners that get us free kobans every day? While I agree the new shopping cart is poorly designed for what it's supposed to accomplish, it isn't relevant to the continuing development of difficult-to-navigate or use "game features," of which the "girls' skills" development is the latest crazy idea to make the list. Girl levels were supposed to indicate their skill, but now we discover they (even the Mythics) still need training to be the best they can be, to which I say "poppy-cock."

[jelom]

At first sight it seems like another eternal task.

You have to upgrade skills for different girls (the blessed ones) each week, and the cost in Ymens to unskill a girl and get your lightbulbs back is too high to do it every week.

And of course the supply of lightbulbs will be minimal compared with the demand especially for mythics and legendaries.

[DvDivXXX]

7 hours ago, Redbeard said:

The concept in general is fine.  With this game how it is not so much.

It's been circling back to this fundamental issue for at least a couple of years, now: the main/only guy calling the shots on where the game is going in terms of development, monetization, gameplay, UI, and more is someone who:

1. has barely played this game (or its countless clones/reskins) past the early game a long time ago (according to Sandman, Rosso did play a bit more of HH or perhaps another reskin since the Q&A a year and a half ago in which he admitted to being level ~300 on his own non-Godmode HH account, but I seriously doubt he ever played it daily in any real player-experience capacity for even a few months in a row, let alone recently);
    
2. constantly plays and looks at radically different types of games for "inspiration", primarily RPGs or strategy games with real game depth (hence all the overly complex and grossly mismatched features he keeps copy-pasting and pushing on HH and clones, even though it doesn't and will never fit here), AND...
    
3. ...also a fair bit of really scummy "mobile games" in the most derogatory sense of the term (hence the more and more palpable push for openly P2W monetization as seen with Seasonal Events, the ever-growing number of different and concurrent in-game currencies with exponential grind and very expensive real-money shortcuts to get ahead of the pack through the powerful strategy of coughing up large amounts of real money).

@_shal_ called this correctly around when this all started to show, sometime between the introduction of Mythic girls, Blessings, 7-girl teams, Elements , and the original 3 Classes system getting largely gutted, and all the contradictions and anti-synergies thereof: "the fish is rotting from the head down".

Since on top of that, the guy's Ego (not HP) seems practically immune to criticism or even constructive feedback for the most part (including from the now-disbanded dedicated focus group he himself assembled but whose advice he largely ignored, not to mention Kinkoid's extremely flawed and biased surveys), I don't think it's likely to change for the better anytime soon. You can only start really improving on anything when you're humble enough to realize your actual level of mastery over it doesn't quite match how great you feel about it. See Dunning-Kruger.

PS: Not a personal attack, just stating facts here. I've been as patient and sensible as I possibly can about it, but there's a limit.

[garadron]

mobile game design sums it pretty well actually, @DvDivXXX

Our girls already have Grades and Levels unlocked through Affection and XP (and gems...). Their skill trees COULD be tied only to these 2 things and suddenly the system might actually be interesting.

But based on how mobile games are designed these days, the more currencies you manage to get in your game, the better for some reason. Probably to ensure that we're always short on something? So we can't just get a new thing to work with already existing systems. We need a completely new system on top of all these other systems to make it look more complex and interesting, but actually be straight up annoying.

[EpicBacon]

I made this comment back in 2021.


We started out with one strong team, but then we had several updates with blessings and elements
that made it so we could use more girls; and had to because of the rotating blessings.

Then they started to change that again, by making girls have higher levels, meaning you had to put more resources into each one
thus limiting the number of girls you were able to upgrade and keep at the highest level.

Now they have doubled down on this, with girl equipment and with this latest upgrade permanent upgrades to girls.
But since blessings are still rotating; this makes it really annoying, as you would want to upgrade the blessed girls; but since the blessings 
are random, or atleast semi-random; if you upgrade a girl one week, it might take a really long time before she gets blessed again.

Thus we return again to the "one strong team" mantra; especially since the upgrades are going to be gated, and limited;
meaning its going to take quite some time to upgrade the girls, and you have to chose correctly, would be really inconvenient to upgrade a girl
that is not blessed often...

Well.. that is for normal people; I am sure there are going to be a "insert creditcard info here" option to make sure this problem goes away.

[Antimon]

12 minuti fa, EpicBacon ha scritto:

[...] with this latest upgrade permanent upgrades to girls.
But since blessings are still rotating; this makes it really annoying, as you would want to upgrade the blessed girls; but since the blessings 
are random, or atleast semi-random; if you upgrade a girl one week, it might take a really long time before she gets blessed again.

By spending 10M per used lightbulb, you can retrieve all those skill points from a girl and redirect them to a blessed girl. It is not very cheap considering we'll have to do it every week, as @jelom said, but it could have been worse. It could have required to spend kobans/to buy monthly cards

Edited July 25, 2023 by Antimon

[Horsting]

34 minutes ago, EpicBacon said:

Thus we return again to the "one strong team" mantra; especially since the upgrades are going to be gated, and limited;

The skills are way too weak to make a difference compared to blessings, just like girl's gear is. It will be mostly about getting a percent win change or decimal league point more here and there by skilling just the team that you would choose anyway. And in some weeks about an even smaller difference when choosing between a slightly stronger girl and one with better tier 3 skills synergies. We should be happy about this, as otherwise with the (currently) limited amount of free blubs, it would be another large step to P2W, instead of one that you can mostly weight up with activity and good strategy.

I do not get why, before adding a skill system for girls, which are rotating each week, there is not one added for the hero (first). Wasn't this even a requested feature/idea as alternative XP sink instead of raising the level cap? If it is about monetisation, there are so many and easy ways to get more money out of existing systems just by adding more shortcut options to buy (while for the bulk of players there will simply a monthly money cap anyway, including zero). No need to develop a completely new system for this, which either means a time consuming and expensive (in terms of Ymen) back and forth every week, or the constant bad feeling that one could have done better.

22 minutes ago, Antimon said:

By spending 10M per used lightbulb, you can retrieve all those skill points from a girl and redirect them to a blessed girl. It is not very cheap considering we'll have to do it every week, as @jelom said, but it could have been worse. It could have required to spend kobans/to buy monthly cards

That is true indeed. And to be fair, one gets quite some additional Ymen from DMs with the update. On level 184 it is:

• Common missions: 110k
• Rare: 219k
• Epic: 274k
• Sum: 2.1M daily, and close to 15M weekly. EDIT: Ah, minus the missions where you get a bulb instead!

Probably someone with a much higher level can check how it scales? Probably it covers the costs to reset at least one girl every week in endgame.

Btw: Today I get a mythic bulb from one of the daily epic missions, so it does not seem to be fixed common/rare/epic from the 3 mission types.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Horsting

[Lumpi46]

Second day without any bulbs on daily missions for me. But I got 2 epic bulbs from Cumback, so I tested 1 on Travel Gwenaelle.

I chose Increase income by 200 and the Income changed from 3,410/h to 3,447/h.

Where's the 200 coming in?

(Why am I not surprised that KK managed to implement a bugged feature? 😜)

 

[garadron]

I'm pretty sure it's flat 200, not 200/h