laa (league addicts anonymous) How you doing in the "League"

[FinderKeeper]

13 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

especially in contrast with CxH's where Finder has basically taken the opposite approach of just giving up on educating folks and managing "Bug Reports" that are actually just noob questions and/or requests for help with individual issues

Approaching it differently would've been overkill for low traffic section of CxH. There's barely any activity there.

[Methos2]

On 11/4/2022 at 1:34 AM, Chuck Nutz said:

So my strategy for the leagues from now on will involve Dicktator 1, 2 and 3

That's an interesting strategy. For any strong players who don't want to compete in D3, this seems like a decent way to earn kobans. Even if you don't place 1st on D1 and D2, you would still earn more than staying top 30 on D2. It's not intuitive but I think you got something here. This is refreshing for the thread.

[holymolly]

Last weeks results: Pretty solid  ..this week however wil probably result in an utter defeat thanks to my even worse than usual rng in league

 

[DvDivXXX]

9 hours ago, Methos2 said:

That's an interesting strategy. For any strong players who don't want to compete in D3, this seems like a decent way to earn kobans. Even if you don't place 1st on D1 and D2, you would still earn more than staying top 30 on D2. It's not intuitive but I think you got something here. This is refreshing for the thread.

Let's compare, shall we? Per week (averaged out):

1. D2 Top 30 (stagnant) =
   1356kos + 1 EPx1 + 7 candles +~80% player XP.
   Easy, steady, basically free.
    
2. D2->D3null strat (2-week cycle) =
   #1: 2256kos + 2 EPx1s + 6 candles + 50% player XP.
   Hard, irregular, rather expensive. Much more kobans and EPx1s, less candles and XP.
   
   Top4: 1488kos + 1 EPx1 + 5 candles + 50% player XP.
   Not easy, irregular, not cheap. Barely more kobans, same EPx1s, less candles and XP.
   
   Top15: 903kos + 0.5 EPx1 + 4 candles + 50% player XP.
   Easy, irregular, cheap. Objectively much worse in every aspect than option 1 = Failure.
    
3. D1->D2->D3null->D2null (4-week cycle) aka Chuck's strat =
   #1->#1: 1833kos + 1.75 EPx1s + 5.5 candles + 50% player XP.
   Hard, irregular, rather expensive. A bit more kobans and EPx1s, less candles and XP.
   Worse gains across the board than just a D2 win in option 1.
   
   #1->Top4: 1449kos + 1.25 EPx1s + 5 candles + 50% player XP.
   Not easy, irregular, not cheap. Barely more kobans and EPx1s, less candles and XP.
   Near identical gains to just a D2 Top4 in option 2 (a bit less kobans, a bit more EPx1s).
   
   #1 ->Top15: 1156.5kos + 1 EPx1 + 4.5 candles + 50% player XP.
   Easy, irregular, cheap. Objectively worse in every aspect than option 1 = Failure.
   Better gains than just a D2 Top15 in option 2, though, so not as hard of a fail.
   
   Top4->#1: 1596kos + 1.5 EPx1 + 5 candles + 50% player XP.
   Hard, irregular, rather expensive. Unlikely. More kobans and EPx1s, less candles and XP.
   Obviously worse than just a #1 in option 2, but better than a D1 Top4 (in a D1->D2null strat)
   
   Top4->Top4: 1209kos + 1 EPx1 + 4.5 candles + 50% player XP.
   Not easy, irregular, not cheap. Objectively worse than options 1 and 2: Total Failure.

Conclusion: For "any strong players who don't want to compete in D3" (for whatever reasons), the #16-30 dance in D2 every week is the better option if they're interested in Player XP at all (and strong players should, assuming we're speaking at least a bit about playing skills and meta awareness, not just raw levels and stats, knowing Player XP even beyond level 500 will become crucial again in a not too distant feature). Also better for candles, but eh.

If they're really not that interested in Player XP and desperate for kobans over it, then the D2->D3null strat becomes the better option. Strong players should get a D2 Top4 consistently, and a #1 at least every now and then, which averages out to a significant koban boost over option 1. Option 3  (the D1->D2->D3null->D2null 4-week cycle) is strictly worse for players strong enough to consistently make top 4 in D2 (which de facto includes players who can make #1 in D1, while the reverse isn't true).

It's not intuitive because it's not good for competitive PvP players, basically. Especially not for strong ones, even if they don't want to compete in D3. Not to mention actually strong players can absolutely go "top 15 and chill" in D3 which is obviously much better than all of the above, and very cheap too. Hell, even "top 45 and chill" in D3 is a more profitable weekly plan than all of the above... ^^

But that's for "strong players". Chuck isn't one. He has a very small harem with active bonuses for most elements at around 50%, a limited pool of competitive L5s and perhaps a couple M6s at most? He posted all that in the past but I don't remember or want to dig. Bottom line, he's not in a position to consistently ensure a Top4 in D2, let alone a win. But he can win D1, and definitely make a Top15 in D2, so he might get there with his slow-burn strat eventually. Another important gain in his specific case is that he is casual and doesn't enjoy the PvP side of things too much overall, so the two weeks off in his plan is a significant bonus unto itself.

So yeah, but nah. ^^
PS: All numbers actually calculated and triple-checked carefully for all options detailed. Hope this helps.

[OmerB]

I'm not sure that Chuck can take 1st place every time on D1 (without spending kobans).

Even so, finishing 4th every time on D1 is better than finishing 15th on D2 every two weeks, so he should better do it a two-weeks cycle: 4th at D1 -> bottom of D2, repeat.

But I'm guessing that he likes doing the 4 weeks cycles, as it gives him interest to try climbing from D1 and D2, so "to each his own" 

[Liliat]

Il y a 3 heures, DvDivXXX a dit :

D2 Top 30 (stagnant) =
1356kos + 1 EPx1 + 7 candles +~80% player XP.
Easy, steady, basically free.

You underestimate the difficulty of this option, IMO. The 16-30 bracket is so tight, your only chance it to be around at reset time, and perfectly time your final fights (switch equipment, intentional 3-points defeats). For a casual player that can't be around at reset time, you will either overshoot or undershoot.

[OmerB]

4 hours ago, Liliat said:

You underestimate the difficulty of this option, IMO. The 16-30 bracket is so tight, your only chance it to be around at reset time, and perfectly time your final fights (switch equipment, intentional 3-points defeats). For a casual player that can't be around at reset time, you will either overshoot or undershoot.

I'm doing it quite succesfully and easily for few weeks now, using very weak boosters (sometimes even one Chlorella) and nor refills (on the contrary, sometimes I had to hold myself back so I won't climb too high). Only for the first time, before getting experienced in it, I ended up too high and promoted, but ever since, I'm doing it without much troubles.

I noticed that if I'm very close to place 15th, even about 12 hours before reset, I might not need to do any further battles.

It's like login before rest time, I'm trying to login ah hour to few minutes before reset time, to check my position, and throw in few league battles if I'm below 20th place. It's enough for me.

[Methos2]

@OmerB you missed Liliat's point. You can stay 16-30 easily because you can be around reset. For players who can't, it is a challenge week after week to stay 16-30 on D2. When I thought I did enough fights, I got sniped out of top 30 on the last hour. When I anticipated too many fights, I got promoted and had to lose a week of earning afterward. I promoted to D3 very early on my level knowing that I would earn less kobans because I hated doing that dance weekly. It's very unpleasant for players who are in disadvantageous time zone. That's why I think Chuck's method has its value.

[Methos2]

13 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

and strong players should, assuming we're speaking at least a bit about playing skills and meta awareness, not just raw levels and stats

You define strong as being competitive in PvP. It's not how everyone defines it (I know it may be foreign concept on this thread). When a player's raw levels and stats overpower his opponent, he is strong. Being strong is relative. Below D3, game meta awareness is also not as important.

14 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

D2 Top 30 (stagnant) =
1356kos + 1 EPx1 + 7 candles +~80% player XP.
Easy, steady, basically free.

This is the hardest one to achieve when you can't be around reset time. When you are strong, you can just do your best without worrying about promoting unexpectedly. It is easier to get top 4 in D2 and 1st in D1 than staying 16-30.

14 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

D2->D3null strat (2-week cycle) =
#1: 2256kos + 2 EPx1s + 6 candles + 50% player XP.
Hard, irregular, rather expensive. Much more kobans and EPx1s, less candles and XP.

Top4: 1488kos + 1 EPx1 + 5 candles + 50% player XP.
Not easy, irregular, not cheap. Barely more kobans, same EPx1s, less candles and XP.

D1->D2->D3null->D2null (4-week cycle) aka Chuck's strat =
#1->#1: 1833kos + 1.75 EPx1s + 5.5 candles + 50% player XP.
Hard, irregular, rather expensive. A bit more kobans and EPx1s, less candles and XP.
Worse gains across the board than just a D2 win in option 1.

#1->Top4: 1449kos + 1.25 EPx1s + 5 candles + 50% player XP.
Not easy, irregular, not cheap. Barely more kobans and EPx1s, less candles and XP.
Near identical gains to just a D2 Top4 in option 2 (a bit less kobans, a bit more EPx1s).

 

23 hours ago, Methos2 said:

Even if you don't place 1st on D1 and D2, you would still earn more than staying top 30 on D2

Thanks for doing the breakdown. I was too tired to do every cases last night. The options 2&3 yields more kobans than option 1 just as I said.

14 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

But that's for "strong players". Chuck isn't one.

I don't know Chuck's stats and harem. Unless he has shown you his account, I doubt that you do too but that is beside the point. For strong players who don't want to compete in D3, the promote/demote strategy is a good option especially for players in disadvantageous time zones. These players do exist. We see some of them weekly on D3. We just don't pay attention to them because they are on the bottom ranking to demote. Just because they don't enjoy PvP, it doesn't make them weak.

[DvDivXXX]

4 hours ago, Methos2 said:

You define strong as being competitive in PvP.

4 hours ago, Methos2 said:

Just because they don't enjoy PvP, it doesn't make them weak.

You know how I feel about semantics arguments by now. This right here is clearly a misunderstanding slash a communication or interpretation problem, not a philosophical one, let alone me looking down on the little guy as you seem to assume with this last comment in particular. Sigh.

4 hours ago, Methos2 said:

I don't know Chuck's stats and harem. Unless he has shown you his account, I doubt that you do too but that is beside the point.

It's definitely not besides the point, Chuck is the one who was asking for advice initially (and received it), and then you picked up an interest for his 4-week cycle strategy and made the hypothesis that it could be a valid approach for "strong players" who "don't want to compete in D3". Your words, not mine.

As I said loud and clear in my post you extensively quoted (but you missed those parts, strangely enough), I and most regulars of this thread who followed the discussions with Chuck DO know his account's power level because he showed us previously (I also remember way more about his overall approach to the game from the big thread he made in I believe the very section I mentioned earlier on, "Brag about your harem" a year or so ago, and the discussions I had with him there and then about it).

We're in the leagues thread and you said that Chuck's strategy might be worth it for strong players who don't want to go to D3. I examined your hypothesis from the angle you presented. Strong in this case doesn't necessarily mean good as a player, let alone as a person, and "weak" (although I didn't use that word, you just put it in my mouth here) would very obviously not be a judgment on anyone's value as a person either.

This is also partially a counter to Liliat's counterpoint about the D2 Top30 dance being easy to maintain. I was making those comments with "strong players" in mind as loosely defined by you and interpreted by me in the context of this league strategy discussion. So casuals were not who I had in mind for those assessments. I did play the 16-30 dance for what felt like a year myself, and a large portion of that was before they switched reset time to align with CET (my time zone), back when it was in the middle of the night for me and at a pretty convenient time for my opponents from the other side of the Atlantic (as it's been for the first 4 years or so of the game's existence). Sure, things evolved since then and maybe scores are even tighter now than they were back then in this specific bracket.

But anyways, as I mentioned after analyzing your idea in details, players strong enough in PvP to consistently make a top 4 or better in D2 are also strong enough to and in my opinion should move up to D3 even if they don't want to actively compete in D3. Just playing all their fights diligently without pushing it should yield at the very least a consistent D3 Top45 or better result, without every having to bother with the promotion and demotion systems, and that's actually a lot less work and investment than any of the alternatives I detailed.

Last but not least, and I'm again also addressing Liliat's counterpoint here, I do think that the 4-week cycle is a good way to go for Chuck specifically, knowing his situation, power level and approach. I never implied that it would be easy for him to play the 16-30 dance in D2, this was when I was breaking down the possibilities for "strong players", as you said. There are several good reasons why this is a better solution for Chuck than the alternatives, and I tailored my assessment and advice at the end specifically for him (as I had already done when he previously asked, but more broadly). As opposed to the bulk of my post which was with players in a position to compete in D2 and beyond in mind.

As I told you and others multiple times in the past, Methos, when in doubt don't assume the explanation that involves me being a meanie douchebag is the right one. You'll be wrong every time, because I'm not.

[bolitho76]

A little bit tighter than hoped, but a solid 1st place. KKJai and JJdude had the better teams in both halfs of the League, but it seems that they oversaw the bad blessings in this week and wanted to rush the League mostly after blessings change, so they fall behind in the first days where I build a solid base of points.

I used allways 1 Ginseng, 2 Cordyceps and allways AM, my teams were between lvl700 and 750.

Oh, not to forget: 5th time 1st place 😁

Edited November 10, 2022 by bolitho76

[Hugh Jerexion]

I am around at reset this week!

101 players. 300 fights. wins: 300. losses: 0

Average: 23.13

Mostly 3xcordys , last days with 2xgin, 1xcordy. No AME.

Congratulations to @mates for the first place and we are in the same league this week too. (along with a whopping 62 players at level 500).

Luck and happiness to all this week.

[mates]

9 minutes ago, Hugh Jerexion said:

I am around at reset this week!

101 players. 300 fights. wins: 300. losses: 0

Average: 23.13

Mostly 3xcordys , last days with 2xgin, 1xcordy. No AME.

Congratulations to @mates for the first place and we are in the same league this week too. (along with a whopping 62 players at level 500).

Luck and happiness to all this week.

Thanks! And also thanks for 75 points in the new league 😉 why did you put low team?

 

[Liliat]

Super cheap league for me this week. 1 Cordy use for the whole week; 3x Ginseng rest of the time. No refills, no AM. Very safe Top 15.

There were too many players competing for the Top 4, I didn't bother 😛

[Hugh Jerexion]

4 minutes ago, mates said:

Thanks! And also thanks for 75 points in the new league 😉 why did you put low team?

I do this at least once per week. Pot luck if people catch me or not. Makes it more interesting rather than perma-boosting with full stats and AME. 

[mates]

2 minutes ago, Hugh Jerexion said:

I do this at least once per week. Pot luck if people catch me or not. Makes it more interesting rather than perma-boosting with full stats and AME. 

Ok, I will remember that for next time 😁 Are you going to fight for the win this week or I can go for it?

[Hugh Jerexion]

1 minute ago, mates said:

Ok, I will remember that for next time 😁 Are you going to fight for the win this week or I can go for it?

Oh come on. I've given you 75 points. How much more do you want. 😂

(I'll give you a hint: I don't currently have any AME's 😉) 

[Pelinor]

I held on to 2nd place. Too many RL events to give the game my undivided attention.

[Mighty Thor]

Week #5 in D3:

This time I missed top 30 and finished at rank 33.

(My screenshot is from 15 minutes before the end of the league, there might have been some changes also at the top afterwards.)

(In brackets: previous weeks)

Final rank:    33 (26/24/31/27)
Points:        5458 (5433/5570/5336/5418)
Average:       18.19 (18.48/18.75/17.97/18.24)

Victories:     244 (239/251/235/236)
Defeats:       56 (55/46/62/61)
Not played:    0 (3/0/0/0)
Opponents:     100 (99/99/99/99)

Player level:    464-466
Girl level cap:  700 (currently 93 girls at level 700 - you can see my best team in the screenshot)

Boosters used:   (most of the time) 1 cordyceps and 2 ginseng (no boosters bought)
               
Kobans used:     203 (53+13+99+12+26) for small refills where I missed some time

Profit:          1590 - 203 = 1387 kobans

I was trying to reach top 30 without using kobans - or only a few for missed time - but I failed.

As I couldn't avoid missing some natural regen now and then - due to unplanned (and unplannable) real life things - and falling asleep too early - I had to spend several kobans on partial refills.

But I spent nothing for boosters or tactical refills - as the blessings in the second half (this week's blessings) aren't good for me and there weren't so many good opportunities at blessings' change.

So at the moment mostly my bad time management is the cause for spending more kobans.
I will see, if I can improve this, so that I can use at least all natural regeneration again.

And maybe - with better blessings - reach top 30 again.

Good luck to all of you - stay happy and healthy! 😊

P.S.: And don't lose your confidence and humor -
- even if your energy costs go up more than 400 % and you honestly start thinking about terminating the district heating contract... 
(Sorry - severly off-topic - just what worries me at the moment)

 

[Rarum]

It was my rematch against sliqguy, and it was a really tough one on both of us. One probably fairly significant reason for my troubles was that I still didn't feel like upgrading a bunch of secondary priority girls; that would have taken my gem reserves "dangerously" low without gaining anything back from a relevant contest. This would normally not matter, but sliqguy was not your run-of-the-mill opponent and every point mattered. I'm having to learn a harsh lesson about underestimation, once again. What I should have thought was that if I don't spend the gems now, what am I saving them up for anyways? I have managed to bring myself around to that mindset a few times before but I've felt nigh-invincible for too long, clearly.

Another thing that I didn't have going for me was that I wasn't planning for a potential permaboost when the league started. I certainly could have tried but it would have been really annoying and so I didn't. However, seeing how close these things can get, I'm starting to get around to the idea that I should start a bracket in a position to do a permaboost if I felt it might be needed.

On the first blessing, sliqguy poured in a lot of resources to fighting opponents. I noted that it almost looked like they were fighting everyone as soon as they became unboosted, though I didn't try to prove this hypothesis. I learned afterwards that there was some method to sliq's selection of opponents other than just fighting them at the first chance. I was relying on judging opponents over a longer period of time first and fighting them when in my analysis of recorded behavior from them I figured I might not get a better chance. This has worked out for me well in the past, so sliq kind of seemed too hasty for their own good from my perspective. Meanwhile from sliq's point of view, I wasn't giving it my all. These are different playstyles, but they both seem to be capable of high performance, so clear conclusions are once again hard to draw on what would have been the optimal strategy here, when we discount things like luck and team selection.

I did notice sliqguy being boosted but with a dominatrix team during the first blessing. I "knew" I should probably fight them at that point but I didn't; though at the league's end sliqguy switched to a weaker defense team than they had been using before and I hardly lost any theoretical points regardless.

The blessings change was a real headache, due to me deciding to travel at the blessings change. However, I didn't let a train ride ruin my perfectly good league, so I used the direct URLs (having to click on the "you need to be inside Nutaku's frame") to do my early BC fights and all that. I had some plans of doing the same for the return trip so I could fight people who unboosted during the snapshot, but I had been logged out and since Nutaku didn't load properly on any public WiFi I knew how to access, that plan was a bust. Also due to me having to switch devices and not bothering to transmit my local storage data between devices, I'm offering only partial statistics and graphs (the difficulty graph I had already silently left out from the previous post; I felt those are maybe too misleading).

After the BC, I actually delayed fighting some opponents until Tuesday so I could fully upgrade a third high strength voyeur girl. It was maybe a foolish risk to delay that upgrade but I don't at least think it reduced my final score in the end.

It was such a close one right up until the end that I had some hope that I had won since there was no movement in sliqguy's score. However, they probably fought one last permabooster and that was enough to secure victory over me. I understood that sliqguy lost sleep over this bracket, and so I think we share a mutual recognition for each others' good performance. Congratulations again.

Despite not having exact statistics available this time, I seem to have had very close to average luck according to the data I do have (6/7ths of the league).

Blessings
1st week: +40% for Gemini and +25% for Eye Color Orange
2nd week: +20% for Indian Headstand and +40% for Eye Color Dark Pink

Defense teams used
1st week: 193165.79 total power. water2-darkness2-light1-fire1-nature1 consisting of Lovebot Norou, Himari, Royal Housemaid, Neferkitty, Alt. Finalmecia, Norou and Aiko. 22.091 is the maximum average one could get against it.
2nd week: After the start of it, 158939.76 total power. darkness2-fire2-nature2-stone1 consisting of Michaela, Royal Housemaid, Undercover Valentina, Alexa, Radka, Golden Lupa and Druiada Titania. 22.04 is the maximum average one could get against it.

Statistics
Number of opponents: 100
My score: 7180

[Ravi-Sama]

Rank: 6th
Score: 6505
Avg: 21.68
Boosters:  6x 3 Gins, 2x 3 Cords, & 0 AMEs.
Refills: 0.98, costing -186 kos (~15 fights).
Profit: +2700 kos
Player Lvl: 480->481.
Avg Player Lvl: 481.5 -> 482.2
Girl Lvl Cap: 750
Defeats: 2/300 fights
Opponents: 100
Offense: 197k -> 157k.
L5 Girl: 100% for Dayan ⚪.

Got 6th place.  I relaxed in the top 15.  There wasn't much competition.  I probably could've ranked top 4 if I used an AME, b/c there was just a -106 point gap.  The avg player level dropped ~2.3 from 484.5 last week (50x 500s), to 482.2 this week (45x 500s).  In the first half, I had my strongest team ever at 197k TP (screenshot from the pantheon), then just 157k TP by the end.  Recognized 3 forum members.

• 3rd @yoyowhan had a maxed out ~172.39k team in the 2nd half.  I didn't want to invest dom ⚫ gems into Nubia, b/c I need them for R. Housemaid, and I was probably low on GXP, as always.
• 6th @Ravi-Sama, wow, I can tag myself!
• 10th @EpicBacon chilled in the top 15 w/ me.
• 33rd @Mighty Thor  I was hoping you'd finish in the top 30.  Figured that was your goal.  If I could've helped boost you up somehow, I would've.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Ravi-Sama
Fixed missing Gin booster count error.

[MrXY]

Info: <current league> [<last league stats>] [<personal best>]

Points: 7001 [?] [7043]

Average: 23.34 [?] [23.5]

Victories: 300/300 [?] [303/303]

 

I skipped posting during the last weeks because I wasn't able to take a screenshot at the end. Now I'm back and returned with my second win. It was a tough competition. There were several players with D3 wins and of course some well known forum regulars. After the first days it was clear to me that I either have to chose to play for an easy Top 15 or I need to spend more than usual to achieve a Top 4. I decided to go for the competition. I don't remember it exactly but I used about 2 AMEs and some more cordys than usual (mostly 1x ginseng, 2 cordy). In addition I even decided to invest in 1-2 refills to catch more players unboosted, because I was afraid of falling out of the Top 4. I never expected to achieve a victory. Only with the beginning of the last day I had some hopes, but I still was far away to be sure about this and expected to be passed by others at the end. Well....great, that was not the case so I'm happy about the prize 😃.

[EpicBacon]

7 hours ago, Ravi-Sama said:

• 3rd @yoyowhan had a maxed out ~172.39k team in the 2nd half.  I didn't want to invest dom ⚫ gems into Nubia, b/c I need them for R. Housemaid, and I was probably low on GXP, as always.
• 6th @Ravi-Sama, wow, I can tag myself!
• 10th @EpicBacon chilled in the top 15 w/ me.
• 33rd @Mighty Thor  I was hoping you'd finish in the top 30.  Figured that was your goal.  If I could've helped boost you up somehow, I would've.

I used to only need to use Chlorella for top15
Recently I've needed to add in some ginseng to make sure I can stay there.

[Zoroman]

10 hours ago, Hugh Jerexion said:

Oh come on. I've given you 75 points. How much more do you want. 😂

(I'll give you a hint: I don't currently have any AME's 😉) 

Come to discord Hugh.

[jelom]

What can I say, congrats to MrX for his win (thanks for the screenshot), and I was out of top 4. Without using AME it is not possible to win most of the weeks agains more and more stronger players.